Confirmed Character Discussion (Part 2)

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Also, they need to denerf Ness too. It's just not fair what they did to him. He was my main in SSB64... matter of fact so was Kirby and he was nerfed too! (Also Pikachu... but let's not get into that.) Sakurai needs to say 2 things before I lose my mind:

A) Who ISN'T returning from Melee.
B) He needs to promise to not nerf anyone anymore and denerf Kirby and Ness.

Please and thank you.

 

[Creo]

What's nerf(denerf)

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Nerf- (adj) to take a character from the Smash game previously and alter their moves to drastically making them worse. Note: To some extent, all characters from SSB64 were nerfed with a few chosen moves to balance them, but Ness and Kirby were nerfed the hardest making them suck in SSBM.
"F*ck... I hate Ness now, how could they nerf him from such an amazing character to such a horrible slob?"

 

[Creo]

Go to stage discussion.

 

[Red Exodus]

Fox will probably be nerfed, his shine might resemble the shine he had in the 64 smash.

 

[Depster]

and yoshi needs his SSB64 Bair back...

 

[Sensai]

Smash 64 was broken. You guys dno't want a broken game, do you?

Ness and Kirby (Ness's Dair and Kirby's Utilt) broke the entire game. While I support having all characters be good, the fact is that they were too good.

And I'm whole-heartedly expecting a nerf to Fox and other top tier characters (I'm looking at you, Sheik's Dthrow) for Brawl.

Making Fox's shine NOT jump-canceable would nerf him enough, IMO.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I agree that I don't want a broken game, but this one is also broken. All characters need to be able to hold up against each other as close to evenly as possible. The thing that made Melee such a great game is that it was basic for beginners, but you could also dig deeper into the games inner workings and find little tricks and secrets and glitches that made the game an perpetually inceasing challenge during PvP.

 

[Depster]

ya, i guess smash64 was a bit broken, like yoshi's throw was about his most powerful distance move, which was instant KO on very easy on 1P mode

 

[Red Exodus]

All characters need a third jump [up B, over B, whatever,], right now Yoshi and Ness [jump into the pk thunder before it hits ness, or better yet, spike ness] are super easy to edgeguard.

 

[shazbot]

idk about ness but yoshi's djc and down b sweet spots give him a chance when someone is edgeguarding him.

unless he's already used is second jump when you hit him. Yoshi then uses his special "useless lump" technique -.-

 

[Sensai]

^^^Red Exodus^^^

/disagree

Not everyone character needs to be the exact same, cookie-cut shell. Not everyone needs to have a third jump, not everyone needs to have an orthodox second jump.

And Dyce, Melee is not broken. While it's not perfect, it's far from broken.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Well Melee itself may not be broken, and none of the characters are technically not broken, but there are some characters who were disgraced and some characters who were given rediculous moves that made them unfair *cough*whorenado*cough*. Their names were sullied with horrible attacks. All I'm saying is bring 64 Ness and Kirby back with reasonable fix, Peach's Smash dA needs to not be able to kill you in one shot, Ice Climbers shouldn't be able to rack up 999% damage in a throw, Pichu shouldn't hurt itself so **** much, and Bowser should be a little stronger if he's going to be so slow. That would make the Brawl near perfect IMO.

 

[Zelda_Fan_]

Dyce/
That and the riddance of clones. Keep Link, Marth, Fox, Pikachu, C Falcon and Mario, but get rid of Luigi, Doc, Pichu, and Y Link. Change Ganondorf and Falco's movesets.

I'm hoping that Link is generally the same, but some surprises would be nice.

 

[Red Exodus]

@ Sensai

Well if they don't have a decent third jump they should be better in some other area. As far as I know Yoshi and Ness don't have anything note-worthy, which is why the are so low on the tier list.

 

[GreenMamba]

Dyce/
That and the riddance of clones. Keep Link, Marth, Fox, Pikachu, C Falcon and Mario, but get rid of Luigi, Doc, Pichu, and Y Link. Change Ganondorf and Falco's movesets.

I'm hoping that Link is generally the same, but some surprises would be nice.

You just said get rid of Luigi.

You're done.

 

[WR3K]

first of all, why did he even need to say: "keep link.. mario... etc..."

those are the main hitters where the **** would they go?

 

[Sensai]

Red Exodus: Yoshi's second jump is very unique. Seriously...it's unstoppable at low percentages and retains that 'lack of stop'-ness until some high damage.

Ness's jump WAS original, but Mewtwo's is also similar in style.

The fact that they can DJC is pretty neat, and saves Ness from being very very low (IMO, Ness should be higher...but that's just me).

And I agree with GreenMamba.

 

[Red Exodus]

*goes to looks up DJC, leaves a 'out to lunch' sign*

*Takes down sign*

Ooooooh. But they still need something more, something to make them different [and by different I mean better and make them not low tier], but something useful. When Ness and Yoshi come back, Ness needs a new B and Yoshi needs a new over B.

I'll have to play as Ness and Yoshi to get more information, I'll look up a few vids too.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Ness's uB needs to come back. It was far too short and slow to really be of any help at all. That's my Ness peeve, and so is his grapple range. It was so good in SSB64 and they ***** it in Melee.

To be honest, I don't really know what they did to Kirby, but he sucks now so... change it back!!!

 

[Red Exodus]

Dahzam! I'm watching a combo vid of Yoshi and this guy is ****** some newbs [they really aren't that good except for a few people]

Here's the link:

*ucking Owned!!one!elven!!

 

[pirate-404]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before, but the SmashWiki's Fox article says "little is known about him at this time" unlike the other returning characters' "seems relatively unchanged from Melee". If you watch the small clip of Fox at the end of the second trailer, after Link does his up-B, Fox knocks Pit away with what looks kind of like his B-air. However, after that, Fox drops off the platform onto the main part of the stage and does his dash attack which looks exactly like the one he had in Melee. From this, I think it's safe to say he won't be changed much, in terms of his A button attacks anyway.

 

[Depster]

see? ive been tellin u for a while now about his meteors, juggles, all that junk.

A lot of the combos he uses are similar, if not the same, to mine, most good yoshi players know how to do most of those awesome combos, it just takes a while to get em down

 

[N00b Fox]

Rofl.

Dyce/
That and the riddance of clones. Keep Link, Marth, Fox, Pikachu, C Falcon and Mario, but get rid of Luigi, Doc, Pichu, and Y Link. Change Ganondorf and Falco's movesets.

I'm hoping that Link is generally the same, but some surprises would be nice.

Should we just straight up Rofl somewhere with in there? Luigi Ping. Nuff' Said. Doctor Mario will also over A you into oblivion, so why would you even tinker with him? He is one of the most balanced charecters IMO. Young Link is a faster yet slightly weaker Link, not even mentioning one of my better charecters. Pichu... Yikes, I suppose I agree with you there. On a side-note, I think they should un-nurf Ness. He was fanaticle in the first one and now he lost his spike because he is just as slow in the second one as he is in the first, and everyone else can run fast as hell.

Tho also, side-note, again.

Back to the first discussions, I think that Snake will not do to well. He has never been introduced to 2D fighting, what will he do here besides be one of those charecter that you just like to be even tho knowingly they suck. ( Like when you are trying to embaress your friends or something of that nature. lol)

That's it, I suppose.

-N00b Fox.

 

[Caael]

Dyce/
That and the riddance of clones. Keep Link, Marth, Fox, Pikachu, C Falcon and Mario, but get rid of Luigi, Doc, Pichu, and Y Link. Change Ganondorf and Falco's movesets.

I'm hoping that Link is generally the same, but some surprises would be nice.

I will end you. Luigi stays. Ganondof needs a sword, Falco needs generally good moves. Young Link should be changed to Cel Link with totally different moves and weapons.

 

[GreenMamba]

Should we just straight up Rofl somewhere with in there? Luigi Ping. Nuff' Said. Doctor Mario will also over A you into oblivion, so why would you even tinker with him? He is one of the most balanced charecters IMO. Young Link is a faster yet slightly weaker Link, not even mentioning one of my better charecters. Pichu... Yikes, I suppose I agree with you there. On a side-note, I think they should un-nurf Ness. He was fanaticle in the first one and now he lost his spike because he is just as slow in the second one as he is in the first, and everyone else can run fast as hell.

Tho also, side-note, again.

Back to the first discussions, I think that Snake will not do to well. He has never been introduced to 2D fighting, what will he do here besides be one of those charecter that you just like to be even tho knowingly they suck. ( Like when you are trying to embaress your friends or something of that nature. lol)

That's it, I suppose.

-N00b Fox.

Doc is as good as gone, you'd have to be pretty stupid to believe he's staying.

And Snake has been in a 2D fighter before. Do some research before shooting your mouth off.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I will end you. Luigi stays. Ganondof needs a sword, Falco needs generally good moves. Young Link should be changed to Cel Link with totally different moves and weapons.

Falco does have good moves, all the Smash creators need to do is keep the moves that make him good and alter the ones that make him too generic to Fox. I'm saying keep his B moves, keep his Dair, his Dtilt, and his Bair and maybe his Uair. Everything else can go. Also, I thought it would be a good idea to give Fox 2 blasters that make him fire rapidly as opposed to just one and keep Falco's powerful laser but maybe alter it to make it look heavier or something. But Fox already has his one blaster, so that idea went down the drain... oh well...

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Should we just straight up Rofl somewhere with in there? Luigi Ping. Nuff' Said. Doctor Mario will alsoover A you into oblivion, so why would you even tinker with him? He is one of the most balanced charecters IMO. Young Link is a faster yet slightly weaker Link, not even mentioning one of my better charecters. Pichu... Yikes, I suppose I agree with you there. On a side-note, I think they should un-nurf Ness. He was fanaticle in the first one and now he lost his spike because he is just as slow in the second one as he is in the first, and everyone else can run fast as hell.

Tho also, side-note, again.

Back to the first discussions, I think that Snake will not do to well. He has never been introduced to 2D fighting, what will he do here besides be one of those charecter that you just like to be even tho knowingly they suck. ( Like when you are trying to embaress your friends or something of that nature. lol)

That's it, I suppose.

-N00b Fox.

I think the proper term is "back air" or "b-air." Lol. Although "over A" works.

And I have to concur with Green Mamba on both of his points. Yes, the Doc is history and you'd have to be pretty dense to think otherwise (no offense, N00b Fox). Also, Snake has been in a 2-D fighter before---but, I can't think of the name for the life of me.

Oh, well.

Luigi is a mainstay to the Smash Bros. cast. After all, he's virtually an icon in the world of Nintendo: Recognizable, memorable, and almost always present in some form or another. As far as I'm concerned, he's in; I'd be appalled if he wasn't a playable character in Brawl. However, I don't think that kinda thing will happen. I think Luigi is fine as he is, but change is going to be inevitable. Perhaps utilization of his Ghostbuster-esque vacuum from Luigi's Mansion as a potential B-move or Super Move? Who knows.

Falco needs...something. I dunno. I mean, I enjoy watching Falco players like Shiz and Bombsoldier whoopin' the bejeezus out of people with Falco's shine and SHL---a prime example of Falco's difference from his predecessor, Fox. If Falco is going to stick around, they should switch him up a bit. Give him a different Up-B and a different Forward-B and I think we'd be good to go. His shine is awesome (and is amazing to see in action) and his blaster is cool. As for his A moves, well---it wouldn't hurt for Falco to do something else, right?

Ganondorf needs an overhaul---one that involves a sword and a bad-*** assortment of magic attacks. As much as I love Captain Falcon (now), I don't wanna see Ganondorf stuck with those same moves that he was stuck with in Melee. If he does come back, I'd say cut him from an entirely new mold: Change his A and his B moves, but keep his physics (weight, traction, etc) the same.

Young Link is as good as gone but his legacy lives on with the (possible) inclusion of Cel-Shaded Link. I personally hated Wind Waker's look (Cel-Shading should be a subtle effect to graphics, not an overt one IMO. Although I did like Okami's look---I'm probably being a hyprocrite) but I did like its gameplay.

Pichu was a...bizarre addition to the cast, to say the least, and not one I was favorable towards. The odds of him sticking around as are as good as the Doc's---non-existent.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Tha_Shogun_12]

As long as Samus and Zero Suit are serperate characters then i'm ok lol.

Not saying that Zero Suit will not be as good (I plan on picking both of them up) but I love samus's moves and weight set.

I also hope they don't get rid of missle canceling, that's key to a samus victory.

 

[Fabes]

i think samus and zero suit samus are gonna work the same way shiek and zelda work, thats my guess

 

[Creo]

For Luigi they should keep his moveset but modify his up b into the 64 version. I don't really like the green missle but I don't main him so I don't know if it's great, but I think they should change it.(IMO)

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

As long as Samus and Zero Suit are serperate characters then i'm ok lol.

Not saying that Zero Suit will not be as good (I plan on picking both of them up) but I love samus's moves and weight set.

I also hope they don't get rid of missle canceling, that's key to a samus victory.

They aren't different. They are the same character. I'm guessing you start out as Samus and somehow you can become Zero-Suit, maybe even visa-versa. Possibly by choice too. Cuz I'm sure some people won't want to have to play as Samus if they like Zamus or have to play as Zamus if they like Samus.

i think samus and zero suit samus are gonna work the same way shiek and zelda work, thats my guess

Similar, but not the same. Zamus will definitely be faster, weaker, and have a whip like Sheik, but Sheik and Zamus are two completely different people. Besides if you watch the trailers, Zamus has moves that Sheik doesn't.

 

[Creo]

^^^^^
I think he meant by transforming matters.

 

[Red Exodus]

Separating them sounds better, since they don't lose any specials [Samus without her bombs is like jigglypuff without her pounds] and Samus is pretty good already, her plus a Shiek-like transformation= God tier.

 

[N00b Fox]

I think the proper term is "back air" or "b-air." Lol. Although "over A" works.

And I have to concur with Green Mamba on both of his points. Yes, the Doc is history and you'd have to be pretty dense to think otherwise (no offense, N00b Fox). Also, Snake has been in a 2-D fighter before---but, I can't think of the name for the life of me.

Oh, well.[/B]

I'm just going to go ahead and rest my case right there.

 

[N00b Fox]

I think the proper term is "back air" or "b-air." Lol. Although "over A" works.

And I have to concur with Green Mamba on both of his points. Yes, the Doc is history and you'd have to be pretty dense to think otherwise (no offense, N00b Fox). Also, Snake has been in a 2-D fighter before---but, I can't think of the name for the life of me.

Oh, well.

"but, I can't think of the name for the life of me.

Oh, well. "

My point was to show that he would now do that great... But in a game as memorable as... Gah, I can't think of the name of it...

I'm just going to go ahead and rest my case right there.

 

[Creo]

Does Anyone Know The F***** Name.!?

 

[I.B]

If it was the game that had Snake and Bomberman in it, it's called "DreamMix TV: World Fighters".

 

[Red Exodus]

Snake was pretty good in the trailer, I don't see a reason to get so mad about it.

 

[Depster]

yeah, everyone says he is gonna be bad, but that is like how everyone says yoshi stinks cause they cant figure him out (watch the video someone posted a page or two back, red exodus' vid of some skilled yoshi player, i think)