Sorry if you missed that. Maybe I should be more clear...
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Comprehensive "Guide" to Fixed and Set Knockback? (title pending)
- Thread starter SuSa
- Start date
Actually is sourspotted, it can send them up if they're in the air. Knockback increases.
TheUmbreonMonarchy
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2008
- Messages
- 53
Tornado, except the last hit.
Meta's Jab is NOT fixed.
Meta's F-tilt on ANY of the hits is NOT fixed.
M15t3R E
Smash Master
I edited my post before you made this post.
It's set knockback on a grounded opponent (it hits them into the ground).
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Another one4, read the OP
OP fixed. Mario is colored again.
updating OP with DK's side-B
:mewtwo:
Warios dthrow doesn't have fixed knockback >_>, more distance at 999%
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I know that, haven't gotten around to deleting it from the OP.
You should fix the color coding on Wolf's entry.
TheUmbreonMonarchy
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2008
- Messages
- 53
All one-hit Jabs are NOT fixed (ie: Ganon's, Meta's, etc...)
And of course, his bite. Except for the last "hit"
Denzi
Smash Master
G&W's Jab and Dthrow.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
I haven't tested this, but Falco's laser and fox's laser may be set knockback. I know (for at least falco's laser) that knockback is NOT zero... just **** close.
For anyone that doesn't know this: to test knockback:
start a new game in VS
Hit an opponent with an attack
quit the game
under the hittee's stats screen find the one entitled "Max Launch Speed": this is the knockback of that attack.
You can now start a game in say, super sudden death mode, and repeat the process, if the knockback stays the same, it's fixed (if not set). Try it on some other character, if it's the same knockback, the attack has set knockback.
This way we can quantitatively gauge knockback, and ENSURE it's fixed/ set, in a way that everyone is testing in the same way, with no margin for error based on looking and guessing.
For anyone that doesn't know this: to test knockback:
start a new game in VS
Hit an opponent with an attack
quit the game
under the hittee's stats screen find the one entitled "Max Launch Speed": this is the knockback of that attack.
You can now start a game in say, super sudden death mode, and repeat the process, if the knockback stays the same, it's fixed (if not set). Try it on some other character, if it's the same knockback, the attack has set knockback.
This way we can quantitatively gauge knockback, and ENSURE it's fixed/ set, in a way that everyone is testing in the same way, with no margin for error based on looking and guessing.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Fixed, thanks for catching that.
What about G&W's?
I'm not counting pummels/grabs like that.
How did we miss dthrow, and are you sure about dthrow? (lol I'm tired atm, I'm sure you're sure)
EDIT:
SCOTU, I thank you for teaching me how to test that.
:mewtwo:
It does say that there are some exceptions to the jab-rules and that it's all theoretical and needs more testing at the moment, though.
TheUmbreonMonarchy
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2008
- Messages
- 53
It's a tech grab, executed by connecting another move first. This includes his and Captain Falcon's Up Bs (which do not have set knockback).
Technically, the grab itself has absolutely no knockback. It's what follows the grab that does (Side B either drags you down with him or throws you to the ground and Up B blows you away).
Someone should test whether or not Ganny's Side B actually has set knockback (or fixed). Do it by measuring the velocity at which people fall to the ground from it depending on % (0% vs. 999%). If they fall faster by even 1 frame depending on how much damage they have, then it's neither fixed nor set.
If it hits you into the ground, it's not set or fixed (since you'll bounce upwards at different strengths depending on what % you have by it unless I'm hallucinating due to a lack of sleep). If you get dragged down and spiked by it, well, then it's not fixed or set either, is it?
Hmm, it's just that Kirbys final cutter was listed, and ike's is almost exactly the same, no? Except for obvious differences.
And bowsers down throw doesn't have fixed knockback.
TheUmbreonMonarchy
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2008
- Messages
- 53
Wouldn't that be considered a multi-hit?
SCOTU
Smash Hero
I'm not one of the leaders of the smash lab for no reason XP
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Denzi
Smash Master
I just confirmed this one (yes, hammer #8). I don't know if hammer #1 has any knockback, but if it does, than it's fixed.
The first hit of Yoshi's grounded down - B (the one that sets them up for the second hit).
joenopride
Smash Journeyman
Ganondorf's side-b can't be tested for "set knockback" using the max launch method.
Unless of course you take 0 mph on both percentages to mean that there is no knockback period. Then it's "set knockback".
Unless of course you take 0 mph on both percentages to mean that there is no knockback period. Then it's "set knockback".
His is technically a combo...
Diddy's jabs. All of them.
The first hit of his Fsmash (duh)
The first 2 hits of his Usmash (also duh)
And I guess it's #8. I really couldn't remember the number then.
#1 has no knockback. Oh, Bowser's downB first hit also.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
The fact you can't tech it, and it's always the same results on-stage, I'll figure its fixed rather then set.
Since we can't prove its set.
Even though its the same exact results every time on every character on stage.
SCOTU, whats your verdict on this?
M15t3R E
Smash Master
All pummel attacks, lol.
Also, I noticed many attacks have the same knockback from at least 0-200%.
This includes attacks like Bowser and Charizard's fire breath/flamethrower, Pikachu's thunder jolt and quick attack, IC's blizzard, etc.
Shouldn't it be noted when a move has fixed or set knockback up to a % like 150 or 200? You're never gonna have to worry about fighting an opponent much beyond 150% anyway, unless you're having enormous trouble KO'ing them.
Also, I noticed many attacks have the same knockback from at least 0-200%.
This includes attacks like Bowser and Charizard's fire breath/flamethrower, Pikachu's thunder jolt and quick attack, IC's blizzard, etc.
Shouldn't it be noted when a move has fixed or set knockback up to a % like 150 or 200? You're never gonna have to worry about fighting an opponent much beyond 150% anyway, unless you're having enormous trouble KO'ing them.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
Set fosho on the ganon side b
joenopride
Smash Journeyman
So how come Ganon can't follow up with the same moves after side-b on different characters? Is that just a hitbox thing?
Edit: Nevermind. Knockback is definitely set. Follow-up is definitely not effected by the knockback changing.
TheUmbreonMonarchy
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2008
- Messages
- 53
Completely uncharged Wario Waft for SET knockback (it just trips the opponent).
Wario's D-air, except last.
Wario's D-air, except last.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I would think so, considering he can ftilt/dtilt Samus only if she does a getup attack.
Thankee.
:mewtwo:
SCOTU
Smash Hero
i would gestimate it has to do with hitstun being different based on weight? idk.
Normal throws have different release speeds based on character weight, but idk if this has anything to do with it, and i doubt it.
Perhaps different characters can wakeup faster than others. unlikely.
In either case, It generates the same knockback for each character regardless of percent. I'd say it would HAVE to fall under set knockback.
Normal throws have different release speeds based on character weight, but idk if this has anything to do with it, and i doubt it.
Perhaps different characters can wakeup faster than others. unlikely.
In either case, It generates the same knockback for each character regardless of percent. I'd say it would HAVE to fall under set knockback.
Denzi
Smash Master
Formatting note: Peach is missing end parentheses on her Dair.
Ivysaur: First hit of neutral B (The hit that knocks them into Bullet Seed)
First hit of Bair.
All Confirmed (by me anyway)
Ivysaur: First hit of neutral B (The hit that knocks them into Bullet Seed)
First hit of Bair.
All Confirmed (by me anyway)
TheUmbreonMonarchy
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2008
- Messages
- 53
Jiggly's D-air = No.
Jiggly's Up-B? I'm going to guess set (It just puts the opponent to sleep; no knockback or damage what so ever, unless Scotu has a name for these kind of moves).
Jiggly's Up-B? I'm going to guess set (It just puts the opponent to sleep; no knockback or damage what so ever, unless Scotu has a name for these kind of moves).
M15t3R E
Smash Master
In essence, moves that work like Jiggly's Up B are all about stun, not knockback. So that wouldn't count.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Well what about Diddy's Banana's?
Those have knockback, but in essence, its about the stun from the slip/trip.
:mewtwo:
Denzi
Smash Master
Note: Olimar's Side B should exclude the purple Pikmin.