Comprehensive "Guide" to Fixed and Set Knockback? (title pending)

[The_Dyne]

Pit's Uair, except for last
D3's first jab only
ROB's weak Utilt

 

[M15t3R E]

More things to test:

Is Mario's cape "set" (unless it reverses a move obviously)
Luigi's Down-B (except last hit?)

:mewtwo:

I can confirm Mario's cape as well as his FLUDD.

 

[Yuna]

First few hits of Peach's Dair (and, as has become increasingly clear, almost all moves with multiple hits)?

 

[SuSa]

Pit's Uair, except for last
D3's first jab only
ROB's weak Utilt

Added

I can confirm Mario's cape as well as his FLUDD.

Assuming Squirtle's Watergun as well then? (charged past the "burst" thing)

First few hits of Peach's Dair (and, as has become increasingly clear, almost all moves with multiple hits)?

I believe all multiple hits excluding the last hit of each.

:mewtwo:

 

[TheUmbreonMonarchy]

If you test Pika's Dsmash, you actually do receive increased knockback compared to 0 and 999% on all of the hits, and you will escape the Dsmash, even without DI.

Meta's Tornado, except last hit.

 

[Brinzy]

Lol Ivy's nair doesn't spike.. O.o

It's not a "spike" per se, but one of hitboxes of nair (where he's in an upright position) sends the opponent down - if they DI out of it, they get sent down quickly.

 

[Adapt]

yeah most moves with multiple hits have at least some 0 growth hits. most of the middle hits are set, but there are a few exceptions.

ZSS's up-B for example is an exception because out of the 5 hitboxes, only 2 are set knockback. The second hit has the potential to kill around 420% on mario.

 

[The_Dyne]

Lol, weak Utilt seems to be ROBs only fixed knockback move. Dsmash, jab, Uair, all increase.

Luigi cyclone = NO

 

[M15t3R E]

Assuming Squirtle's Watergun as well then? (charged past the "burst" thing)

Yep, I was just thinking that as well.

I believe all multiple hits excluding the last hit of each.

:mewtwo:

That does seem to be the trend.

 

[SuSa]

Yep, I was just thinking that as well.




That does seem to be the trend.

Squirtle's "Burst" watergun also seems to be set.

It didn't KO at 999%....


ps:

No, I'm not going to add transform moves -_-

OP Updated with a Special Thanks list at the bottom

EDIT:
Anyone want to make a list of all the multi-hit moves we're missing? Then others can tear it apart and prove "x" thing true and "y" thing false?

:mewtwo:

 

[TheUmbreonMonarchy]

Wario vs Wario ledge attack above 100% = set. Tested at 0% and 999%, they went the same distance.

 

[Yuna]

Squirtle's "Burst" watergun also seems to be set.

It didn't KO at 999%

Just because something does not KO at 999& does not mean it is set. The last hits of jabs don't KO at 999% for most characters, either.

In order for knockback to be set, it has always stay the same (save for differences between characters). Some moves just have very negligible escalation in knockback.

 

[Brinzy]

He didn't word it the best way, but I'm sure that Squirtle's Burst is set.

 

[SuSa]

Wario vs Wario ledge attack above 100% = set. Tested at 0% and 999%, they went the same distance.

Thank you.

Just because something does not KO at 999& does not mean it is set. The last hits of jabs don't KO at 999% for most characters, either.

In order for knockback to be set, it has always stay the same (save for differences between characters). Some moves just have very negligible escalation in knockback.

Below quote

He didn't word it the best way, but I'm sure that Squirtle's Burst is set.

/end comments

EDIT:

How about Bowser/Char fire breath?

:mewtwo:

 

[Yuna]

He didn't word it the best way, but I'm sure that Squirtle's Burst is set.

I know it's set. I'm just correcting the misconception. Certain entries in the OP state that certain moves are believed to have set knockback due to them not KO:ing at 999%, after all.

 

[Brinzy]

Right, I get where you're coming from.

EDIT: Charizard's Flamethrower is set.

 

[SCOTU]

Note the Difference between "Fixed Knockback" and "Set Knockback"

These two things mean slightly different things, which you have taken for granted. Fixed knockback moves always deal the same amount of knockback to a character regardless of percent (i.e. they have no knockback growth). Set Knockback attacks, on the other hand, always deal the same amount of knockback regardless of percent or character (i.e. they replace the knockback formula with a specific number). Something like Diddy's banana, has set knockback, where something like DDD's dthrow has fixed knockback.

I figured this'll help you make your list more comprehensive and complete.

 

[M15t3R E]

About Pikachu's d-smash- it is a multi-hit move that works like any other multi-hit moves. The knockback is negated by the other moves in the multi-hit move and the difference in knockback from 0% to 999% is virtually nothing. The character still is on top of Pikachu during the d-smash at any percentage, so geeze, it should still count. And even though you break out of it at 999%, all the hits before the final hit come out and deal the same knockback as it would at 0%.

 

[SuSa]

Note the Difference between "Fixed Knockback" and "Set Knockback"

These two things mean slightly different things, which you have taken for granted. Fixed knockback moves always deal the same amount of knockback to a character regardless of percent (i.e. they have no knockback growth). Set Knockback attacks, on the other hand, always deal the same amount of knockback regardless of percent or character (i.e. they replace the knockback formula with a specific number). Something like Diddy's banana, has set knockback, where something like DDD's dthrow has fixed knockback.

Anyone want to help me find the moves with SET knockback? lol

:mewtwo:

 

[The_Dyne]

Thanks for the thanks.

Luigi's first 2 jabs
MK's first 2 hits of Fair, Bair, Usmash
Samus' bombs don't work, Fair and Uair do though ( 'cept last hit )

EDIT: Dang, I've only been testing for fixed.

 

[Brinzy]

Oh crap, thanks for that, scotu.

I guess this still makes Squirtle's burst and Charizard's Flamethrower "set", because it doesn't change based off of the character - DIing out of it might just be harder for larger characters because of the size of their hurtbox as opposed to the attack in question.

 

[Judge Judy]

Mario: First hit of Up B

 

[TheUmbreonMonarchy]

You can visually see the knockback change in Pika's Dsmash very easily. Infact, it's not a little change, it's a big change in knockback.

 

[Yuna]

Anyone want to help me find the moves with SET knockback? lol

:mewtwo:

Very, very few.

I just personally don't see any reason to differentiate between the two. It's not like it matters whether it's set or fixed as the results are still the same in fights; the opponent will always go flying the same distance no matter what %. I mean, it might kinda play a part in, I don't know, team matches where your teammate has to calculate how far that Pikachu will fly from that move of yours, but that's pretty much it.

However, scotu is, of course, perfectly right in that there's a difference between "set" and "fixed" knockback.

Also, it's 7:22 A.M. and I'm still awake, so please excuse me for, in my insomniac stupor, momentarily forgetting there was a difference between the two , although, technically, I've only argued about set knockback .

 

[SuSa]

Very, very few.

I can only seem to find Diddy Kong's Banana.

:mewtwo:

Edit:

OP Updated soon (any second)

 

[M15t3R E]

You can visually see the knockback change in Pika's Dsmash very easily. Infact, it's not a little change, it's a big change in knockback.

But regardless of the percentage, the opponent is still spinning around on top of Pikachu being electrified.
SRSLY, it's the same thing.

 

[The_Dyne]

Kirby's dash attack, 'cept for last hit
And strangely, the physical attacks of Final Cutter

 

[Barge]

What about Pikachus quick attack?

 

[Yuna]

But regardless of the percentage, the opponent is still spinning around on top of Pikachu being electrified.
SRSLY, it's the same thing.

If the knockback increases depending on percentage, even if it's just slight, then it's not set or fixed. This needs testing.

 

[SCOTU]

It also matters if it's fixed because if you SDI out at a high percent, and it's not fixed, you might be dead anyways.

 

[M15t3R E]

If the knockback increases depending on percentage, even if it's just slight, then it's not set or fixed. This needs testing.

It's like 1/4 of a Pikachu character length difference...

It also matters if it's fixed because if you SDI out at a high percent, and it's not fixed, you might be dead anyways.

This is a better argument than others I have seen. I wasn't sure if the "knockback" you receive from SDI'ing out of it was relevant. If it matters, then I guess it's not fixed.

What about Pikachus quick attack?

It's virtually the same knockback from the percentage range that really matters, which I would say is 0-150%. But TECHNICALLY, I suppose it's not fixed or set.

 

[Yuna]

It's like 1/4 of a Pikachu character length difference...

Then it's neither fixed nor set. The acculumation in knockback is just almost negligible.

 

[SuSa]

What about Pikachus quick attack?

Nope, not that I can get.

But regardless of the percentage, the opponent is still spinning around on top of Pikachu being electrified.
SRSLY, it's the same thing.

I'll leave my comment out of this :/ lol

Kirby's dash attack, 'cept for last hit
And strangely, the physical attacks of Final Cutter

Thanks, retested with same results. (all but the "projectile" of FC have Fixed Knockback)

If the knockback increases depending on percentage, even if it's just slight, then it's not set or fixed. This needs testing.

What needs testing?

:mewtwo:

 

[Barge]

Confirmed: Toon Links boomerang on its way back to toon link

same distance at 0-999%


Lol @ quick attack at 999%, it sends them to the other side of the stage xDD

 

[SuSa]

Confirmed: Toon Links boomerang on its way back to toon link

same distance at 0-999%


Lol @ quick attack at 999%, it sends them to the other side of the stage xDD

Tested, knocback seems to be exactly the same only upon return for TL.


Also, I told you no on QA =p lol

:mewtwo:

 

[The_Dyne]

Fox's first hit of Uair.
NOT his Fair or Dair
Pika's Quick attack, Fair = NOT fixed

 

[Barge]

Tested, knocback seems to be exactly the same only upon return for TL.


Also, I told you no on QA =p lol

:mewtwo:

I know, it's just so awesome though.

@Dyne, thunderjolt and QA don't have fixed KB, they increase as the damage increases

 

[M15t3R E]

DK's side B. It's the same when used on a grounded opponent.

 

[Yuna]

What needs testing?
:mewtwo:

Pikachu's Dsmash.

 

[Barge]

@Havokk: Formatting problems, Mario isn't yellow.