Competitive Sonic Impressions Post-Release

[Phoenix_Dark]

Doesn't seem to spike.

Laaaaame. Would've been amazing.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I think he's referring to the setup of after killing Olimar on a stage like Battlefield where the middle platform sits very high and right below the respawn spot, you plant a spring there so Olimar is forced into the air when respawning. This was a pretty common Brawl tactic I believe. He can't pluck pikmin in the air and is at a huge disadvantage. I heard Olimar's whistle doesn't have the same properties anymore also, so this becomes that much more useful. Springs are definitely a valued option in a few scenarios.

I can see how this could be seen as an advantage but unless you can demonstrate for me an example that's applicable to more than one character on one stage I'm going to stand by my assertion that the grounded spring doesn't hold a candle to the customs off-stage utility.

I don't really see the point of the custom up b. I believe you can't act out of it as fast as the normal, because of the hitbox and you only get the added height when connecting. Seems like a poor tradeoff. I'm curious about the side b though. If it pounds them into the ground during the arc down, you should test it offstage to see if it spikes. Would be a lot more effective than the d-air spike.

The side b does not spike and attempting to do so is similar in danger as the dair spike, the range of it is much thinner in distance due to it's increased verticality, so it would only be possible to land by using it from the edge of the stage if you want to actually have a jump to come back safely.

It does seem like you can't act out of it as quickly but the difference seems quite minimal, I'm almost curious as to whether it's placebo affect making me think there's a difference which means if a difference exists it is very small (nearly insignificant).

The point of it is that it lets you go much farther off-stage for spring gimps (low-based recoveries) while still being able to recover. I thought that was the most obvious, it's less about the actual headbutt portion.

HA seems to lock on the disk projectile, it seems.

@6:06, 6:47, 9:24

No idea how useful/bad it can be, though.

I also realized how difficult it was for him to land the Dair spike. Oh well.

Let me scare you even more by saying that the DHD in the video shown is not even taking advantage of his toolset properly. That match could have looked a LOT more one-sided if the DHD was a lot more practiced and using his can properly.

 

[infomon]

Looks like Homing Attack will target the can if it's closer than DHD. Maybe it targets anything nearby with a "hurtbox". Hmm...

 

[cg0rz152]

Let me scare you even more by saying that the DHD in the video shown is not even taking advantage of his toolset properly. That match could have looked a LOT more one-sided if the DHD was a lot more practiced and using his can properly.

In my experience with Brawl, whenever I played Sonic, some of my hardest match-ups were against characters that could spam ranged attacks simply because they could make approaching them difficult.

It will take a bit of practice, but once you get used to dealing with projectile spam, it'll make the match-up easier. Running and shielding the projectiles as I approached was one way I dealt with them, rather then relying on my spins.

However, if any more experienced users have some advice on better ways they deal with it, the help would be appreciated. Projectile spam is annoying for me.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

In my experience with Brawl, whenever I played Sonic, some of my hardest match-ups were against characters that could spam ranged attacks simply because they could make approaching them difficult.

It will take a bit of practice, but once you get used to dealing with projectile spam, it'll make the match-up easier. Running and shielding the projectiles as I approached was one way I dealt with them, rather then relying on my spins.

However, if any more experienced users have some advice on better ways they deal with it, the help would be appreciated. Projectile spam is annoying for me.

Yeah I can see where you're coming from but DHD is seriously a completely different beast

 

[Espy Rose]

DHD a ****. Just dunk him.

 

[PsychoSy]

Wait, homing attack targets DHDs cans? Will that hurt sonic if he hits the can?

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I can see how this could be seen as an advantage but unless you can demonstrate for me an example that's applicable to more than one character on one stage I'm going to stand by my assertion that the grounded spring doesn't hold a candle to the customs off-stage utility.

Against one of his hardest matchups in Brawl on a starting stage, this was very helpful. This isn't limited to one stage either or one character. This was just the example I was giving.

The side b does not spike and attempting to do so is similar in danger as the dair spike, the range of it is much thinner in distance due to it's increased verticality, so it would only be possible to land by using it from the edge of the stage if you want to actually have a jump to come back safely.

I now know the side b doesn't spike, but it would have been insanely safer than the d-air, as you can act out of it instantly. The d-air spike looks as of now to be nothing more than a gimmick that won't be seen much of at all, unless some real setups are found. Better off using the more solid options of f-air or b-air offstage which were his go to moves in Brawl. D-air spike is incredibly high risk to next to no reward. It may have its moments, but I highly doubt it will ever be a legit threat like say Marth's d-air.

It does seem like you can't act out of it as quickly but the difference seems quite minimal, I'm almost curious as to whether it's placebo affect making me think there's a difference which means if a difference exists it is very small (nearly insignificant).

The point of it is that it lets you go much farther off-stage for spring gimps (low-based recoveries) while still being able to recover. I thought that was the most obvious, it's less about the actual headbutt portion.

Maybe I'm understanding this wrong. Is it if the spring hits them you get increased height distance? I assumed it was the hitbox on Sonic itself that caused this. IIRC, most moves clanged with spring anyways and it wasn't all that useful as a gimp in Brawl. It was still worth doing if recovering low, but most actual gimps with spring happened right under the edge of the stage. I guess I'll just have to wait and see the game for myself. Just not seeing the big hooplah.

Let me scare you even more by saying that the DHD in the video shown is not even taking advantage of his toolset properly. That match could have looked a LOT more one-sided if the DHD was a lot more practiced and using his can properly.

I'm under the impression that Snake is in Smash 4 and is just dressed up as the duck hunt dog. Great projectiles. Giant hitboxes. An explosive that can combo break in the air every time. Character looks insanely solid.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I will do some more extensive testing with it to know the specifics of the spring custom.

At the end of the day, I think Sonic's customs are overall pretty un-enchanting compared to other characters, but that may just be me.

A good DHD I'm almost positive will be Sonic's most valid threat in the meta. The hitbox of the dsmash and fsmash keep Sonic from playing speed demon close range footsies, the can and the plate just absolutely marginalized the effect of spinning. The only working method of apprehending a DHD is intelligent poking with evasive grabbing.

Off-stage with DHD becomes insanely difficult due to the ease of use for his amazing recovery...worst of all it is a slooooow match of endurance. To properly beat a DHD takes some precision and accuracy and patience...sometimes it just doesn't feel fun to fight a DHD.

 

[Chauzu]

Not to be like that but as a DHD player facing a Sonic isn't so fun either so you and me both.

Sonic is defo improved in this game though, I even managed to win a few times with him without practising anything. Which would never have happened in Brawl.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Not to be like that but as a DHD player facing a Sonic isn't so fun either so you and me both.

Sonic is defo improved in this game though, I even managed to win a few times with him without practising anything. Which would never have happened in Brawl.

Well yea I would imagine the feeling is mutual at least occasionally

To me DHD just feels so abnormal of a character, it makes fighting him more different than fighting any other character, getting him in For Glory feels like a huge screeching stop to your momentum in a For Glory session, one that tends to be more frustrating than fun, haha.

 

[XLR8TION]

DHD looks weird to play against

 

[Espy Rose]

$20 that Lucario is still our very worst match up. DHD just looks like a quadrupedal Snake.

 

[Camalange]

I always hated playing Snake.

I love Duck Hunt I really don't want to hate him please no

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Against Snake, just keep him airborne and you'll be fine (most of the time), but for DHD we have one little problem: his aerials look really good..

I guess we're just screwed due to the lack of a projectile. Maybe Spinshotting and dropping Springs on top of him will help, as well as running to shield grab.

 

[Kinzer]

Duck Hunt?

More like Da ****.

... *Ahem.*

Reading all this just makes me want to get the game all the sooner. I have no qualms with exploring Sonic in his entirety... Even if it means venturing into unfavorable positions.

For the sake of knowledge and whatnot.

 

[Espy Rose]

What? Snakes aerials were amazing.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I always hated playing Snake.

I love Duck Hunt I really don't want to hate him please no

I'm sorry to say but I don't think any current Smash 4 player, no matter your main, likes fighting a good DHD .

$20 that Lucario is still our very worst match up. DHD just looks like a quadrupedal Snake.

Lucario is pretty formidable for obvious reasons, but I would like to dispel this very common notion that DHD is just a Snake clone.

The can is something that takes serious adaptation in the hands of a good player, and it's nothing like Snake ever had. DHD's projectiles aren't very subtle but they control your movement well enough to put you in a bad position often. His aerials and ground game is still fantastic. DHD also brought back Peach's Melee dsmash in spirit with his dsmash except with a larger range. His fsmash has a gigantic reach which makes spacing difficult because it outranges all of our tilts and smashes.

He's not impossible he's just inherently tougher than other characters from my experience.

 

[Espy Rose]

Sounds like Snake to me.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Sounds like Snake to me.

Well it's not. Let that sink in.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'd rather it float.

 

[kataridragon]

Whoa! I just saw some footage of sonic on the 3ds for the first time. He like a new charcter almost. They revamped a lot of his moves. His legs are longer too.

I was a sonic main in the brawl day :/

I can't wait to get my hands on him.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Well yea I would imagine the feeling is mutual at least occasionally

To me DHD just feels so abnormal of a character, it makes fighting him more different than fighting any other character, getting him in For Glory feels like a huge screeching stop to your momentum in a For Glory session, one that tends to be more frustrating than fun, haha.

I wonder if the mains of other characters feel similarly about fighting Duck Hunt?

 

[Camalange]

I'm sorry to say but I don't think any current Smash 4 player, no matter your main, likes fighting a good DHD .

nooooo
the harsh realities of smash

 

[True Blue]

Duck Hunt sounds like Snake though. Reason why MVD is playing him and using him JUST like Snake. LOL.

But haven't played against one as Sonic, but did as Dark Pit. Maaaaad easy. lol

 

[Espy Rose]

Gotem.

 

[Tristan_win]

It seems M2k and ZeRo think very highly of sonic.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

It seems M2k and ZeRo think very highly of sonic.

Well don't we all on this board?

 

[Espy Rose]

They didn't even get into any of the nitty gritty of Sonic.

 

[Tristan_win]

Well don't we all on this board?

Well I don't consider myself a member of this character forum nor did I have a opinion of sonic being good or bad until I watch this video. I do think having well establish professionals say things like

'one of the strongest characters in smash4' ZeRo
'I can't seem him anything but high tier but he's most likely top' M2k (paraphrasing a bit here)

Is very healthy for a characters community and make more people willing to spend their time playing and testing new things for Sonic.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

They didn't even get into any of the nitty gritty of Sonic.

It's true a lot of the stuff they covered was pretty superficial I believe.

 

[XLR8TION]

Pretty basic tutorial but coolz

 

[PsychoSy]

I'm kinda surprised that M2K is starting to like Sonic after seeing how many times he's been playing him on ZeRo's stream.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Still annoying that it's going to cause a huge influx of band wagoners solely of the premise that they "feel" he is high/ top tier, even though they didn't cover any of sonic's weaknesses or even think about the problems he may have in specific matchups that's to his low priority spin attacks and his limited downward landing options landing with spin attacks while good are very predictable if used improperly something many early sonic adopters have problems with.

Luckily there one more week until i can crack him open, hopefully for a lot of people. I also wanted to bring this up incase any of you are interested in doing sonic workshops like monthly or something, so that we can work on and share stuff through online matches or something. Given that the online thus far is a lot more stable i figured we could do this to help build up a better "base" for beginners to learn sonic from. We already have loads of info but i do recall even back in brawls lively days that we kept a lot of it to ourselves and thus not many others picked sonic up. Just figured i'd throw out that idea, i know i'll be teaching some people who plan to use sonic (like zipzo) once i get my copy.

Though i will say while sonic's potential seems a lot stronger this time around his learning curve isn't easier than before and i feel many are judging how good he is only through what they see him doing at a basic level vs people who never really experienced the character.

 

[SmashWolf]

As Orochi's signature says.

- There's nothing as boring as Sonic dittos.

Though I believe even if Sonic wasn't believed to be high tier from this superficial level(he actually seems weak to me), people would still play more Sonic by default simply because stock mode is a thing now. Playing Ike won't mean automatic victories because of KO swipes in FFA Time matches anymore.

 

[True Blue]

Ugh! Am I gonna have to switch my main to Dark Pit cause MewtwoKing likes Sonic now! ARG!
And the fact that they say, "I believe." makes me hate the. If you make a tutorial and stuff about frames and moves and things you don't say, "I believe." That just says that you are unsure and making opinions.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

well think about this way, if you ever have to play M2K and he goes sonic at least you'll know the MU more than he does..

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I kind of liked Sonic being the underdog. Makes beating people with him much more satisfying.

I hope he's viable but not the new MK for SSB4.

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

Trust me. M2K isn't going to main Sonic. He says he wants to play him but a friend who lives with him knows he'll drop him. Its all misdirection. He'll end up playing a campy character ahem Duck Hunt or Bowser Jr.

 

[Camalange]

Sonic was always MK in SSBB.

The MK of Low Tier.

He was so good we had to make him Mid Tier.

But yeah, a couple top players saying they "believe" he's one of the "best" doesn't change the amount of hours I poured into Sonic in Brawl to make him any form of viable, or the hours I'm going to pour into this game to do the same as well. If anything, it's kind of nice I guess that they think he has potential, but again, anyone saying anybody is high or top tier means nothing to me other than that they "might have potential" which also really doesn't mean anything at this point in time.

It's a hell of a lot better though than the previous stigma of "dtilt shuts down sanic make him gdorf tier no priority lulz" so yay? At least he's finally getting some kind of respect now, but we'll see where it takes us.