Are you for real? First of all, I referenced League to show that the COMMUNITY of an easy-access given game generally has no idea how to balance it. I don't give a **** what the League Devs do as far as balance goes.
That's a very poor example considering league uses player input heavily from the PBE to balance their game, and very succesfully. If you care about the balance of this game, it wouldn't hurt to see what they did right.
You do realize that all Sakurai did was develop the game, right?
You should have just stopped right there. But since you went on. . .
I'd be willing to bet that Nintendo has a small balance team for this game, and Sakurai doesn't play a huge role in it. Why are you quoting him? He is a man, not a god. Nintendo dictates this game and it's balance, and Sakurai will only play a small role in it. Anyone who bases an opinion like yours on the work of Sakurai is a moron that can't see deeper past a single layer of, well, anything. Sakurai having an OPINION does not dictate the direction of a balance patch.
Aside from perhaps needing to attend an anger management class, your logic is that the developer's opinion doesn't matter in the balancing of his game?. . . ok then. Hopefully I don't need to explain to you all the reasons that statement is illogical, but to make it simple, what sakurai wants isn't an opinion. What he wants at the end of the day will be implemented in his game. He has the final say.
EVEN STILL, let's assume it did. Those 8 way free for alls? Casual games? It'll give ENOUGH insight for balance to be done and done decently well.
Based on this statement I can gather you have limited competitive experience. 8 way free for alls and casual games would only help towards generalized balancing, not towards specific matchups in competitive play. This is the sort of thing Sakurai's team will look at, not what professional players do, or the balance changes they would like to see.
THAT'S why I say give big N a chance and stop letting your idiotic bias control your judgement. If we need to balance later on as a community, it sure as hell won't be with the badge system. It'll be through Homebrew and mods again. Luckily, this IS THE MOST balanced release of a Smash game ever. I don't see it being needed.
Hacking methods of balancing the game will never be accepted at major tournaments such as EVO, so your argument is invalid.
As for your second part, you obviously lack reading comprehension if you thought that was my point. I was using it as AN ALREADY EXISTING example of why a community doing the balancing can, and likely will, fail. Please learn to, again, see past a base layer of anything before responding to me again. Even with top guys suggesting balance changes, they don't get payed for it, thus the imbalances that exist in PM, BB, and +.
Actually the fact that I addressed how you are confusing games based on hacking mods and balancing based on in game options shows that my reading comprehension is just fine. The fact that you also are confusing the work of a group of players with great game development skills making games like PM, BB, and + with a trusted group such as the SBR who creates the tier list, and competitive rule set and is accepted by the competitive community only stands as a statement to your own reading comprehension.
Your suggestion is counter-productive. Why fix something that isn't broken, or can fix itself with time? Yoshi, mother****er. Melee Yoshi. Time can do wonderful things, and you want to supersede that with a bunch of knee-jerk (in the timeframe considered, it does count) reactions.
And in that same breath, Marth was gutted from high-top tier to bottom tier (based on the japanese tier list). Granted, that list is far from accurate with only the input of one region, but regardless, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that Marth is severely lacking compared to his previous iterations. Moving a top tier to low tier and vice versa isn't game balance. It would be to bring all characters as close to a median as possible. There will always be better characters, but the goal is to make every character viable.
And with BADGES? That we then HAVE TO STANDARDIZE WITH THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY, COMPETITIVE OR OTHERWISE? Can't work. It's simply not possible. If balance changes are done, it'll be with a Mod of a game. Badges are FAR, FAR to RNG and they give A NET GAIN IF THEY DON'T HAVE A NEGATIVE BUFF. It's not possible, and will never be possible, with the badge system. Yes, even ingame badge modding or save file modding.
Again, your argument is invalid because you are assuming an absolute with no proof. I would agree that it would be extremely difficult to impliment something like this, and a huge effort on the part of the SBR, but saying it's impossible because it's hard is somewhat pathetic.
It works in League because League is a VERY simple game.
I'd love to send this statement to Riot Games so they can have a good laugh.
It is not hard to do a minor tweak and fix a champ and bring them in line. This is a fighting game. It's about 20x more complex than League is at a fundamental level. They are allowed to do it because it's so simple. Smash isn't just a numbers game.
You're honestly trying to argue that the meta of a 5v5 MOBA is simple and easier to balance than a 1v1 fighter? Aside from the vastly larger cast and multidimensional game play factors such as the laning phase, jungle, team fights, and near infinitely more match up possibilities, you haven't given any evidence to support smash being a more complex game to balance for a competitive meta. Only generalizations as to how it is running on a more complex game engine.
Again, badges can't make the "tweaks" you'll want. That will REQUIRE editing parameters the badges can't edit.
You shouldn't assume what "tweaks" someone will want. Assumptions only lead to a portrayal of ignorance. The badges won't solve every problem, or give perfect balance. They will however give the ability to balance the game at a basic level.
This is a new game. Throw everything you know about Smash, including your perceived view of what Nintendo thinks, out the window.
Perceived view? Again, a testament to your reading comprehension, But statements from Sakurai are not a "perceived view."
This is a true clean slate. You can't say they have no intention of "doing on their own." THEY'VE NEVER HAD THE CHANCE BEFORE.
You do realize this is the 4th game in the series correct? Granted the ability to balance the game through patches didn't exist till brawl. Regardless, there was no intention on any of the games to make them competitive, as stated by Nintendo, so you should stop assuming otherwise. Melee was a fluke. Glitches that by some miracle made the game very fast paced and competitive. As pathetic as it is to say, Sakurai made a statement that he was dissapointed that Melee turned out to be such a successful competitive fighting game. Sakurai even made the statement with Smash 4 in mind that he didn't want competitive play to be the focus of the game.
And you think changing the game every year is GOOD for the metagame? Look at League, since you want to use it's gameplay as reference. That metagame changes every 3 months because of minor, consistent changes. It only works because of the type of game it is. Fighting Game Metagames aren't built to keep players and to keep growing while changing constantly. See the Smash Mods, all of them. Constant changes drove away a LOT of people.
You should really stop using hacked mods as a reference to an argument about the use of SBR sanctioned rule sets. You're inability to understand this renders your entire argument invalid. What I'm suggesting is the SBR use badges in their rulesets towards character balance however they see fit, if at all. It doesn't have to be anywhere as constant as league. You make yet another assumption that fighting games aren't built to keep players while growing and changing. The truth of the matter, however, is that a fighting game is still a competitive game, and any competitive game will need balance changes to keep a healthy meta and keep a small group of characters from dominating the top tier. ie smash 64: pikachu, Melee: Fox, Falco, Shiek, Marth, Brawl:. . .MK. The changes don't necessarily have to be constant, just to bring characters in check if they reach MK status or bring them up the tier list if theyre. . .well. . .Marth status atm. . .
But I guess the above is mute, as constant alterations like you wish for are impossible, and, even mods through a homebrew system, will be impossible for years. At least if you want this game to grow. Barrier of Entry is a very real thing. How about we not piss off people and make it impossible to get through for new players for a few years, ok?
Your level of assumptions seems to have no end. The alterations I wish for have no need for homebrew or hacking mods. Unlike you, I'd prefer to keep this game standard at major tournaments such as EVO.
Wanting this game to grow and wanting it to have a balanced and healthy meta are 2 very different things. Although in an ideal world you would want both, personally I would prefer to have a well balanced fighting game over more people playing it. When it comes down to it though, the major barrier exists between casual smash, and competitive smash. If one truly wants to join the competitive scene and test their skills against others in an attempt to improve and show that they are better than the next, it won't matter what the rulesets are that are implimented by the SBR. They will follow them. If they find it too difficult to adhere by, they have the option to continue playing casually, which means they didn't have the drive to truly play this game competitively in the first place.
And hey. I Caps locked some major points so you might be able to understand what I'm saying this time.
Caps are unnecessary. It's more important to acknowledge the points of the other person you're having a discussion with, which you failed to do in your previous post. Picking and choosing the points you feel better your argument and ignoring the rest only invalidates your argument while either coming off as ignorant or lacking comprehension skills.
I hope this time you can understand a little more clearly that what I have been suggesting is the use of badges by the SBR in competitive rulesets for the balancing of characters, with no suggestion of a set interval of patching, Basically whatever the SBR decides, if they even decide to use them at all.
