Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[superjm]

And despite what results say, I would argue Wolf and ROB at least are top tiers. We can now confidently state Fox and Cloud are still top tiers in this game too I feel.

I'm inclined to think Fox and Cloud are top tier, but I'm also inclined to think that they may have the same issue as Samus I mentioned earlier where they have top tier tools but possibly get blown up in too many matchups to truly reach that status. I understand that Roy and ROB have been stated to have this issue as well, but those two characters have shown remarkable resilience in bracket play even against their supposed "hopeless" matchups that I don't know if I can put them in that bucket.

 

[Kokiden]

Update to the characters who have won majors chart

Very nice to see this displayed and easy to digest like this.

Question to you guys on here, but do you think characters that have won a tourney should be automatically put in top/high tier placement? Or no?

I've seen discussions where some say yes, but others say no, because winning at tournament isn't enough and there are other factors involved.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Question to you guys on here, but do you think characters that have won a tourney should be automatically put in top tier placement?

Unless your sole definition of top tier is "can win a major", no. If we did this we might have to consider Smash 4 Lucario top tier in that game (Lucario was one hit away from winning Frostbite 2017). Oh, and we'd have to consider Byleth top tier in Ultimate, something I don't think many people would be willing to do. High tiers can win majors (I assume that's what you meant with "tourney", I'm willing to bet that every character has won a local at some point).

 

[Kokiden]

Unless your sole definition of top tier is "can win a major", no. If we did this we might have to consider Smash 4 Lucario top tier in that game (Lucario was one hit away from winning Frostbite 2017). Oh, and we'd have to consider Byleth top tier in Ultimate, something I don't think many people would be willing to do. High tiers can win majors (I assume that's what you meant with "tourney", I'm willing to bet that every character has won a local at some point).

Just edited it to be both top/high tier since that seems better.

No people im not playing joker…its about adapting just like i did after last summit. Stop. Not gonna switch cuz of one “bad result”

— LG | MkLeo (@Mkleosb) March 8, 2022

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Here we have it folks.

I'm still thinking he's never going back to him. After all, Leo is very good at adapting, so I can't seen him performing worse than 4th. He's not "washed" like some people are saying, which is extremely odd.

However, I do think he is no longer steamrolling everyone nowadays. You do seem him struggling more compared to back when he mained solo Joker and just ripped a hole in everyone he fought against.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Raito got 5th at EVO 2019 and 5th at EVO Japan 2020. Could he have won those tournaments? It doesn't seem impossible. Would that have made Duck Hunt a high tier? Probably not. So it does seem to me that a mid tier could, theoretically, win a major. Will it be hard? Yup, and bracket luck will likely be a factor as well. A character winning a major is probably a good indication that they're at least high tier, but I don't think it's necessarily a guarantee. I wouldn't expect any of the characters I currently have listed as mid tier to win a major though.

Rosalina & Luma is probably the mid tier character with the highest chances to win a major. I imagine if Dabuz ends up winning a major as solo Rosalina many people would instantly start considering her high tier, but isn't it also possible that Dabuz is that good with a mid tier? It's theoretical anyways, right now he also uses Olimar which means he doesn't have to deal with Rosalina's worst matchups.

As for MkLeo and Joker, it doesn't sound like he's too interested in Joker, and I don't think the issue is characters as much as other players (Sparg0 most notably) are catching up to him. Which makes sense, it's hard to consistently be #1. MkLeo will likely still be the #1 player, but I don't think he's going to be quite as consistent in the next year as he's been in the past two years, since other players are working hard as well and are improving rapidly.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Results for G4 Smash Ultimate Invitational

1. Sparg0
2. LarryLurr
3. MkLeo
4. Glutonny
5. BigBoss
5. Chag
7. VoiD
7. Maister

The way this is going, if this continues, Sparg0 will be the new #1.

 

[Kokiden]

G4 invitational is here in case anyone wants to watch.

Seems like this was more of an experimentational tourney for Leo going by who he used.

 

[Cheryl~]

I kinda feel bad for MkLeo. He's made it clear that Byleth is his favorite character to play in the game and he's had amazing success with them, but recently it's felt like the ceiling is being tapped finally. People are playing better around Leo's ledge habits and a lot of these matchups like Cloud, Aegis, even Wario to an extent just look hard for Byleth to deal with consistently. He's expressed interest in Corrin, who I have less faith in than the Byleth lol. I think he'll still remain at the top, likely just needs to adapt and better his Aegis, but man it hurts that he's stuck in this situation while everyone eggs on for the Joker to return.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I kinda feel bad for MkLeo. He's made it clear that Byleth is his favorite character to play in the game.

Not just that, he considers Byleth his most favorite character to play in the entire franchise, even above Smash 4 Marth.

 

[blackghost]

Mk Leo is about to enter that zone of being a Bayonetta or ryu main. You love a character but deep down you know the flaws will eventually show up vs good players

Alo Leo kazuya???

 

[NairWizard]

Byleth-Cloud looked about as bad as Byleth-Aegis. Leo was stuck shielding or playing cornered for half the match every game. Leo talked about the matchup on stream and explained how bad he thought it was going to be and suggested that he might go Corrin for it. But I guess his Corrin didn't feel developed enough.

He clearly doesn't like Byleth-Wario, Byleth-Fox looked very hard, Byleth-MinMin is obviously out, and according to his friendly session with Protobanham, he was "getting destroyed" in Byleth-Lucina.

He can definitely adapt, but it seems like he's running into the limits of low mobility.

It's likely that he plans to lean more into Aegis. If he improves his recovery mixups with Aegis, he can definitely keep his consistent #1 title.

Collision seems like it's too soon for him to do it though. There were about 2 weeks (?) between Summit 3 and Riptide, and there was only one matchup for Leo to study there.

 

[Arthur97]

It probably is rough though to have people hound him about Joker. Even the commentators seemed to almost mock his preference once preferring Joker.

 

[Wigglerman]

It probably is rough though to have people hound him about Joker. Even the commentators seemed to almost mock his preference once preferring Joker.

People, deep down, love watching 'the mighty fall'. It comes out of some people pretty quickly when the signs start to show it. Zero got dunked on a lot after his gradual fall as #1 in Smash 4

 

[Frihetsanka]

I watched the MkLeo Corrin games at G4. His Corrin is very fundamental based, he's not using too many of her more advanced movement options or techs in general, but he's beating strong players up with his amazing fundamentals. It's interesting to compare him to Ly and SHADIC, two players who know more Corrin-tech, but also lose to worse players since their fundamentals aren't as good. It would be interesting to see what MkLeo could do if he talked to SHADIC, Ly, and/or other Corrin players in order to learn more advanced stuff. Given what he's done with Byleth I don't doubt that he could do really well with Corrin if he wanted to.

I don't think he's going to solo main Corrin though. Corrin is like, low high tier? And if you're a top player you'd want a stronger character than a low high tier character. She could be a good secondary though, although I don't know if she'd really cover many matchups for Pyra/Mythra. Ultimately, I don't think MkLeo will stick to Corrin, if I'm being honest. I'd like it if he did but he seems to like Byleth the most and Pyra/Mythra is one of the best characters in the game, and is there really room for a Corrin? There might be, but I'm mentally prepared for him to drop her soon.

I also don't think Pink Fresh will stick with Corrin. He might keep using her at locals but I don't think he's going to use her much at majors, since he has stronger characters that he's able to play. Being a low-high tier sword character in a game with multiple top tier and high-high tier sword characters is rough. Corrin is pretty solid and fun to play, but is that enough to get people to pick her up when there are so many better sword characters? So far we haven't seen much of it. Cosmos has talked about playing some more Corrin but given his success with Pyra/Mythra, the superior character, I don't think he will. Cosmos is more of a solo main type of player anyways, and I don't think he's going to switch mains now that his Pyra/Mythra is giving him great results.

 

[Arthur97]

People, deep down, love watching 'the mighty fall'. It comes out of some people pretty quickly when the signs start to show it. Zero got dunked on a lot after his gradual fall as #1 in Smash 4

The commentator thing was before the loss though. It also brings up the fun aspect. That isn't something you can really account for. While the main commentators both of events and influencers may lean a certain way, different people find different things fun.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Alo Leo kazuya???

Played it in his set against BigBoss, that was when BigBoss was playing the shotos.

 

[F4lcoMain]

That is Mythra's stock icon, not Zelda's.


MkLeo did feel a bit off this tourney, but he managed to beat Glutonny and Dabuz with the Aegis.

Leo did say that he is considering eventually using Joker again, but he doesn't find him enjoyable to play.


Oh yeah, I considered Cloud > Sephiroth even before this event, but this pretty much solidified it. Sephiroth as a whole is kinda in a very awkward spot in the meta rn.

Ah my b. Never realized how similar their Icons were.

Results for G4 Smash Ultimate Invitational

1. Sparg0
2. LarryLurr
3. MkLeo
4. Glutonny
5. BigBoss
5. Chag
7. VoiD
7. Maister

The way this is going, if this continues, Sparg0 will be the new #1.

Props to Larry Lurr for getting second, esp given the competition. Thought he had started to shift his focus more to content creation, but glad to see him still placing well.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

New OrionStats update

Big character update for the last week! A gap between 8th (Pyra) and 9th (Steve) is formed, Samus drops, and Roy's lead shrinks as Palutena emerges as a potential #1 challenger. Byleth notably recovers back to the top 30. Inkling is also top 40 for the first time in a while. pic.twitter.com/jcAHdG48S4

— Barnard's Loop (@LoopBarnard) March 9, 2022

Something not mentioned was Cloud's massive rise, but I don't think this is too surprising now that Sparg0 is going mostly solo Cloud with some Aegis for bad matchups and is now winning majors.

 

[toonito]

New OrionStats update

Big character update for the last week! A gap between 8th (Pyra) and 9th (Steve) is formed, Samus drops, and Roy's lead shrinks as Palutena emerges as a potential #1 challenger. Byleth notably recovers back to the top 30. Inkling is also top 40 for the first time in a while. pic.twitter.com/jcAHdG48S4

— Barnard's Loop (@LoopBarnard) March 9, 2022

Something not mentioned was Cloud's massive rise, but I don't think this is too surprising now that Sparg0 is going mostly solo Cloud with some Aegis for bad matchups and is now winning majors.

is 8.5 points behind IIRC this is the closest she has been to #1. Can she overtake our boy and join among the ranks of Orionstats #1?

 

[Frihetsanka]

Corrin #48, higher than Terry, Ike, Hero, Pichu, Zero Suit Samus, Kazuya, Link, you love to see it. Is she better than these characters? Probably some of them, but not all of them (no chance she's better than Zero Suit Samus, hah). I suspect MkLeo is one of the major pushers from her G4 run but some other Corrin players have been doing things.

Ridley at #32 is really interesting. Who is pushing Ridley? Nair^?

Bayonetta at #19 is interesting. I've been thinking she's at the lower end of high tier for a while now. This is, of course, not enough evidence on its own, but it helps. Seems most of the former Smash 4 top tiers are doing okay in Ultimate these days. Ryu and Mewtwo are probably the worst off of the Smash 4 top tier, but perhaps they're better than people give them credit for? Anyone more invested in Ryu and/or Mewtwo willing to comment on where they sit in the meta?

 

[StrangeKitten]

Corrin #48, higher than Terry, Ike, Hero, Pichu, Zero Suit Samus, Kazuya, Link, you love to see it. Is she better than these characters? Probably some of them, but not all of them (no chance she's better than Zero Suit Samus, hah). I suspect MkLeo is one of the major pushers from her G4 run but some other Corrin players have been doing things.

Ridley at #32 is really interesting. Who is pushing Ridley? Nair^?

Bayonetta at #19 is interesting. I've been thinking she's at the lower end of high tier for a while now. This is, of course, not enough evidence on its own, but it helps. Seems most of the former Smash 4 top tiers are doing okay in Ultimate these days. Ryu and Mewtwo are probably the worst off of the Smash 4 top tier, but perhaps they're better than people give them credit for? Anyone more invested in Ryu and/or Mewtwo willing to comment on where they sit in the meta?

Mewtwo is around upper mid/lower high tier. He's a pretty great lightning bruiser, and the buffs he's gotten throughout the balance patches are little helps here and there that really add up. He has the damage-per-hit of a superheavy, but a combo game more akin to fast, combo-oriented characters, Has some of the best raw kill power across the cast, one of the best projectiles that keeps the pressure up and kills, and very useful tools in Confusion and Disable. Additionally, he has one of the best recoveries, as his double jump goes high and Teleport goes far. He's held back by his light weight, lack of options to deal with disadvantage well, and his absurd tail hitbox. He's strong enough to place well in tournaments, going by Wadi's usual placings using Mewtwo. Wadi usually gets 9th and almost always makes top 20 with the psychic cat and his backup ROB. Mewtwo is probably a bit better than people give him credit for, but I think the majority of tier lists I've seen have had him in mid tier, which isn't far off.

 

[Gleam]

Mezcaul's really been pushing the results for Ridley, with a few others bringing up a good rear such momon, easily getting quite a few Top 16's and 24s in several majors and regional. I'm actually not sure what Nair^ is doing, but Europe and Japan definitely decided they wanted to push Ridley more than he has been recently.

 

[StrangeKitten]

DK, K Rool, Jigglypuff, Incineroar, Mewtwo, Dedede, and now Ridley! The past six months or so have been a refreshing treat to witness "bad" characters do well.

 

[Arthur97]

It is nice. Brings up that even the bottom tiers in Ultimate are...still pretty good all things considered. Like, Brawl Ganondorf wishes he had Mac's speed. Even at the bottom you have something to work with. Not the best, but workable to some degree. It's quite amazing with such a massive roster really.

 

[Wigglerman]

It's interesting because the 'low tiers' have to play, essentially, an entirely different game from the rest of the cast. They can't roll fingers/faces across the controller and get away with a lot of things the upper cast can. So watching them have to play around, with some fair success, around the meta game is exciting. I always root for the underdog.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Low tiers in this game live and thrive off of MU inexperience. Given that this game has over 80 characters and very few good players that main low tiers, it's going to be really hard to know every low tier matchup. This does mean, however, that it's actually a good idea to main a low tier. If a low tier main starts getting good results, then you can bet that people will do what they can to learn the MU, and at that point it's going to be really hard for the low tier main to keep performing well.

With all this being said, low tiers in this game are not as bad as in previous titles. Even the worst character in this game, Ganondorf, is still quite a bit better than Smash 4 Ganondorf, who is miles better than the abomination that is Brawl Ganondorf. Not nearly as good as Melee Ganondorf though, who was a mid tier.

 

[Kokiden]

I kinda feel bad for MkLeo. He's made it clear that Byleth is his favorite character to play in the game and he's had amazing success with them, but recently it's felt like the ceiling is being tapped finally. People are playing better around Leo's ledge habits and a lot of these matchups like Cloud, Aegis, even Wario to an extent just look hard for Byleth to deal with consistently. He's expressed interest in Corrin, who I have less faith in than the Byleth lol. I think he'll still remain at the top, likely just needs to adapt and better his Aegis, but man it hurts that he's stuck in this situation while everyone eggs on for the Joker to return.

I see this as well.

His Byleth is having a harder time of things as time goes on.

I'm surprised to say this, but not once have I seen his Aegis slay the opponent as easily as his Joker or Byleth. He is outstanding at those 2, but not so much Aegis. He's always having a rough time of it, with the games being very close.

I wonder if he actually likes Aegis, or if he's using them because they're considered top tier?

Anyway, I suspect people telling Leo straight to his face or in the comments in his tweets to go back to Joker are creating the opposite effect. It might even make him dislike the character even more. It's like that thing where if your parents tell you to do something, but you intentionally do the opposite out of spite lol.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Low tiers in this game live and thrive off of MU inexperience. Given that this game has over 80 characters and very few good players that main low tiers, it's going to be really hard to know every low tier matchup. This does mean, however, that it's actually a good idea to main a low tier. If a low tier main starts getting good results, then you can bet that people will do what they can to learn the MU, and at that point it's going to be really hard for the low tier main to keep performing well.

With all this being said, low tiers in this game are not as bad as in previous titles. Even the worst character in this game, Ganondorf, is still quite a bit better than Smash 4 Ganondorf, who is miles better than the abomination that is Brawl Ganondorf. Not nearly as good as Melee Ganondorf though, who was a mid tier.

Yep.

Every character can do something in this game, you can't sleep on anyone.
One of the reasons why results aren't that important.

 

[The_Bookworm]

With Collision on the horizon, I feel like rambling on about a few characters that are in an interesting spot in the meta.

is really strong. Like... very strong. The character is very hard to pin down and he has arguably top 3 ledgetrapping in the game with falling nair, bair, and the sort. He feels like a character that can approach any matchup in the game and at least pull off some damage.
Sparg0 has commented in this matchup not being favorable for Aegis for a few reasons: he is one of the few characters that can comfortably match Mythra's speed, he maws them (particularly Pyra) in disadvantage, and Aegis doesn't really have a good OoS option to get out of Fox's pressure. Oh yeah, shine spikes are pretty funny vs Aegis recovery.
Between Light continuing to get great results, such as winning Smash Con: Smash Fest and his performance here at Summit. I think the character may very likely be top 10 material in the current meta.

has started off post-quarantine strong with some great placements by Kome, but since then, that has kinda fizzled out.
With Nicko being semi-active at best right now, as well as other Shulk players only performing ok at tournaments relative to other considered top tiers, Shulk's results feels like it is being singlehandedly dictated by how well and frequently Kome performs in tournaments. Kome does do well in tournaments, but it is a bit shaky at times.
Other top tiers and even high tiers post-quarantine, has started out-performing the character by a considerable margin. Shulk as a character is in a very awkward spot right now. He is definitely a character I don't really see people talk about much anymore.

has his stonks risen considerably since 2022 started. The final balance patch came in clutch in putting him around Ken's level. While Ken remains the most popular of the FGC characters representation-wise, Ken players has started adapting more and more Ryu in certain matchups. There is also the uncommon, but notable solo Ryu players like Munekin or Ikan.
Glitch - Infinite is essentially designed to be the "Saga" for FGC characters. Ryu made notable waves with Ikan's 17th placement. While Vendetta mostly played Ken, he also used Ryu a considerable amount and placed 7th there. Ryu prior to the March 1st update, was at his highest on OrionStats than he ever has throughout all of Ultimate (to my knowledge), which indicates his growth.

still seems to stagnate. Despite us initially considering her the most buffed from the final balance patch, her representation and presence in tournaments saw very little improvement. While her buffs seem to be very good on paper, her linear gameplan and poor KO potential seems to be relatively unaddressed, and are still showing to be major pitfalls for the character in the current metagame.

On a more positive note, presence in the meta seems to be in a much more stable spot. For the longest time, Mega Man as a character began to really stagnate, with Kameme barely playing him towards the end of pre-quarantine, and other Mega Man players not playing up to par.
Repo from Japan has really leveled up, and has for a while now started to place highly in Japanese tournaments more consistently. Peabnut has netted a few notable wins over in the American side, and Kameme has adopted Mega Man back and it seems to be currently his comfort pick in tournaments. So good news for Mega Man players.

is another character is a very awkward spot right now. After all the excitement of a character with ridiculous damage output was at its peak in last year's Smash Ultimate Summit, the character kinda fizzled out?
The character being rare is nothing unusual considering how difficult the character is execution-wise, but the players who do play him is becoming a bit more scarce and inconsistent by the moment. Riddles has been shifting away from the character in favor of Terry and Roy due to his inconsistency, and he was the main proprietor of Kazuya results.
Going back to Glitch - Infinite, the two best Kazuya players in the USA participated (AxiomXL and Brr) looked promising going into round 2 pools in the winner's side, but both fell before reaching to top 32. Outside of these two, there aren't really much strong Kazuya presence in general across the globe. We have Tea's secondary Kazuya, who outside of Squad Strike didn't do much of anything in Summit (only time he showed up was vs Sparg0 and that got dismantled).
As a whole, the character isn't looking hot right now. Despite the high execution barrier, the character has so many glaring flaws that even with good execution, the character will eventually run into some really difficult matchups to deal with, especially vs folks with good matchup experience.

That is all I got for now that I want to share my thoughts into. continues to not really impress me, now reaching 5 months after his release. He seems like the paper definition of an average character as of right now, but that could change.

Low tiers in this game live and thrive off of MU inexperience. Given that this game has over 80 characters and very few good players that main low tiers, it's going to be really hard to know every low tier matchup. This does mean, however, that it's actually a good idea to main a low tier. If a low tier main starts getting good results, then you can bet that people will do what they can to learn the MU, and at that point it's going to be really hard for the low tier main to keep performing well.

Indeed. As of the current meta, there are quite a bit of lower tiered characters making bigger splashes than ever before.
Think of characters like (Skyjay), (BassMage), (KirbyKid), and (Peanut + Alternis) for example.

As the meta becomes more developed, especially in a game as balanced as Ultimate, I would argue that it becomes easier for low tier mains to make a splash in competitive play, due to the reasons you already mentioned. You are more likely to not be prepared for the character (especially if the character is weird lol) and then you are messed up if said player is really good.

As seen with Summit with BassMage, if piloted by a very good player, the low tier player can really make a large impact and get upsets (and by upsets, I mean run into the same matchup over and over again lol). But also seen with Summit, sometimes it doesn't matter how godlike you are as a player, the pitfalls the character has will inevitably drag your performance downwards.

Both consistency and context are important, especially when evaluating characters considered lower in the tier list.

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

The problem with Kazuya isn’t his execution. It’s his speed. He is pitifully slow. Most of the cast can reliably run away from him, and jumping just beats half of his best options. Theoretically, he should have the best shield pressure in the game. A move that forces you out of shield, many highly damaging attacks that can break shield, and a scary command grab with a special command input grab that kills half the cast at 60%. In reality, he doesn’t get the opportunity to use these tools exceptionally well because why shield when you can just run away from him. He gets camped pretty hard and while having a reflector does help, more often than not the fact that Kazuya has to actively read a projectile to use it effectively and it is reasonably easy to punish makes it quite tame as a reflector despite its immense power. Rage is hurt by his speed as well. Once Kazuya gets rage he will get camped VERY hard and its not uncommon to play matches or even watch matches where he doesn’t use rage drive once because he got camped for 1 minute a stock.

Of course this isn’t even mentioning the trash that is his seven frame jump squat, rendering his air game essentially neutered. He gets anti aired by half the cast FOR FREE and he struggles to reliably hit people OOS. It also hurts the threat of jump command grab, an option that could‘ve been scary to fight but like all of Kazuyas other tools, hampered by his weak mobility to be used at its full potential.

His recovery is good enough at best and extremely exploitable at worst. If he gets hit by any kind of decently strong aerial offstage and needs to burn a jump, he may as well be dead due to his bad air speed and easy to predict air-dodge. His up-b is reasonably easy to 2-frame since its pretty slow and his hurtbox actually spills onstage.


Might add more to this but this is mainly why I feel Kazuya isn’t quite cutting it RN.

 

[Sucumbio]

Vs Pikachu and Aegis and still won. Granted not the best chu or pythra out there but still...

And then against naito who is a good zss

We see here how Kazuya definitely struggles around platforms and against strong neutral pressure. He got sent to losers and lost against DM.

Overall I think it's not his speed that keeps him from excelling but rather his close to the chest style. He's not great if you use a character that can keep him at a distance and chip away for openings. His strength obviously is when he does get in, he needs very little to convert to massive damage.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Kazuya just falls too far deep into the super heavy archetype, he gets comboed around and is very easy to keep at bay. That's bound to give you some rough matchups in the cast of Ultimate. He's not bad, but anything faster or with a better neutral will eat him alive.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Results for Collision's pre-local

1. IcyMist
2. Grayson
3. Jake
4. Zomba
5. Mpg
5. WhiteNova
7. PkChris
7. Deltaforce
9. yosi
9. Beast
9. DM
9. Pelca
13. TabSoba
13. Unleashed
13. Gen
13. Scot
17. Reaux
17. Frozen
17. TayJuice
17. BeatyBean
17. Ram
17. LingLing
17. Suarez
17. Liyrex

Results for Smash OPEN (Japanese tournament)

1. Shuton
2. takera
3. Paseriman
4. KEN
5. HIKARU
5. kept
7. Gorioka
7. Vanilla (Don't know his character)

 

[Sucumbio]

Local Smash Player Farms Impressions

Dash Attack Tier List pic.twitter.com/xCf5UkKh04

— ESAM (@imESAM) March 11, 2022

Mythra dash attack da Bess tho...

 

[The_Bookworm]

Local Smash Player Farms Impressions

Dash Attack Tier List pic.twitter.com/xCf5UkKh04

— ESAM (@imESAM) March 11, 2022

Mythra dash attack da Bess tho...

Mythra's dash attack is really good, but Mythra's own attributes is what allows it to be a neutral defining move.

The only real thing that confuses me about this list is why Hero's and Link's dash attacks are in two separate tiers? Link's is one frame faster, but outside of that, they are pretty much the exact same move.

 

[Arthur97]

Does Link not have more range?

Also, The Robins awkward lunge may be underrated. It very well may be the strongest bronze sword move.

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

Mythra's dash attack is really good, but Mythra's own attributes is what allows it to be a neutral defining move.

The only real thing that confuses me about this list is why Hero's and Link's dash attacks are in two separate tiers? Link's is one frame faster, but outside of that, they are pretty much the exact same move.

Links has more aerial coverage and is safer when spaced. Hero’s is a bit stronger but loses way too much coverage for it to be worth it.

 

[Rizen]

Mythra's dash attack is really good, but Mythra's own attributes is what allows it to be a neutral defining move.

The only real thing that confuses me about this list is why Hero's and Link's dash attacks are in two separate tiers? Link's is one frame faster, but outside of that, they are pretty much the exact same move.

Link's can hit characters on platforms and Hero's can't.

 

[Nah]

Also, The Robins awkward lunge may be underrated. It very well may be the strongest bronze sword move.

That's not saying much given that bronze sword moves are largely underwhelming, I think ESAM has in the right spot really

 

[Wigglerman]

As someone who's been playing a lot of MK (For SOME reason) I can attest his Dash Attack is super useful. I just wish the rest of his kit wasn't so...weird. He's been a lot of fun to play but man, I wish he had jab resets to follow up on the regular drop down bairs he can pull off. Maybe time to just mash a downsmash as soon as I hit one. :I