Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Sucumbio]

F-smash tier list

Order in tiers is VERY loose except for top 5/1

Male robin is Iron f-smash, female is Levin F-smash pic.twitter.com/DhBY1vkmBJ

— ESAM (Stride Esports) (@imESAM) March 1, 2022

Fsmash tiers from ESAM. Haven't really looked at it closely yet.

 

[Rizen]

This is a good time to talk about and 's 2 hit Fsmashes. YL's is faster but much weaker and with less reach, otherwise they behave the same. You can Fsmash1 and delay or cancel the second hit by not pressing the button again and the opponent will be stuck in place. This can lead to it being very safe on shield through mindgames and shield break setups. I've broken shields with both Links', although Link's is much better, by Fsmash 1>wait>Fsmash 1 again>Fsmash 2. People tend to wait in shield thinking the 2nd hit will come out. YL's is among the weakest Fsmash in the game but still kills at decent %s, like around 120% on average. Link's is slower but honestly better. The reason Link's Fsmash is not god tier because of this is if you do not buffer the second hit immediately the opponent will run out of hitstun and can shield it. Yes even if the first hit connects, the second can be shielded if you wait at all. So you're pretty much committed to buffering both hits if you think you'll land the first. I've lost a lot of kills by not being confident in my Fsmashes.
Oh yeah, Link's shoots blade beams at 0%.

 

[toonito]

OrionStats updated today.

There isn't really much noteworthy of this update as far as I can tell. Only things I can see is that:

• is now #2 underneath Roy.
• There is a fairly notable point gap between the top 8 characters and everything else.
• is definitely as the highest he has been throughout Ultimate's lifetime.
• Only notable drop from my memory is dropping all the way from top 20 to #27.
• Every character in the game now has at least 1 point, with being at the bottom with exactly 1 point.

However, each of the things listed above is rather minor overall.

been hovering around the top 5 on Orionstats forever...with 21 points between her and could she make the jump to #1 one day like Roy did? probably not especially since her most likely best player cant compete on twitch.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

been hovering around the top 5 on Orionstats forever...with 21 points between her and could she make the jump to #1 one day like Roy did? probably not especially since her most likely best player cant compete on twitch.

Nairo probably isn't her best player anymore currently as he's really rusty. He did poorly at his Birthday Bash event. Chag is Palutena's best player now IMO.

 

[toonito]

Nairo probably isn't her best player anymore currently as he's really rusty. He did poorly at his Birthday Bash event. Chag is Palutena's best player now IMO.

you're right i forgot about Chag

at this point Palu is probably the character who's been in the top 5/10 of orionstats the longest without hitting #1 unlike her peers such as ROB, Roy, Wolf, Snake, and Joker. She'd probably need more top level reps doing well in bracket to overtake Roy who has Kola, Mugen, and Goblin as well as various others.

 

[Gleam]

So a few quick things about the most recent update on Orion.

- Ganondorf just rose up 7-9 spots. It certainly isn't a placement worthy of much praise, but it is a relative large increase and I'm honestly not sure where it came from.

-We're really starting to see the effect of character's placements dropping when they don't have their primary player/s backing them up. Even with the patches, I don't think anyone here believes ZSS is as, monstrous as she was in the past, but I don't think anyone's first thought on her would be, "Yeah, #60 makes sense"

-Meanwhile, Dr. Mario, you know one of the absolute worst characters ever, equal to the failure of Ganondorf and Little Mac? #48.

-Ridley jumped from around #33 to #30.

-Sephiroth has shown a bit of a drop, going from originally around the the #19-20 to the upper #20s.

-Pikachu holding up his consistent Top #30s placement, that's our #1, best character, no questions asked, rat.

-Bayo holding that nice #16. It must feel great for the bayo players to finally have their character not be the gross negligence of incompetence they were at the start. A character who can be good, but also fair.

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

This is a good time to talk about and 's 2 hit Fsmashes. YL's is faster but much weaker and with less reach, otherwise they behave the same. You can Fsmash1 and delay or cancel the second hit by not pressing the button again and the opponent will be stuck in place. This can lead to it being very safe on shield through mindgames and shield break setups. I've broken shields with both Links', although Link's is much better, by Fsmash 1>wait>Fsmash 1 again>Fsmash 2. People tend to wait in shield thinking the 2nd hit will come out. YL's is among the weakest Fsmash in the game but still kills at decent %s, like around 120% on average. Link's is slower but honestly better. The reason Link's Fsmash is not god tier because of this is if you do not buffer the second hit immediately the opponent will run out of hitstun and can shield it. Yes even if the first hit connects, the second can be shielded if you wait at all. So you're pretty much committed to buffering both hits if you think you'll land the first. I've lost a lot of kills by not being confident in my Fsmashes.
Oh yeah, Link's shoots blade beams at 0%.

Blade beam is really good, but its so bad for punishing shield breaks. If your at 0 as Link and get a shield break, you basically are forced to do charged Up-B or combo move lest the opponent falls out of the move.

Not enough to make blade beam bad (I actually think blade beam can be very useful depending on the situation) but enough to make me occasionally sigh out of annoyance.

I should also note that a fully charged f-smash with blade beam will break full health shields. Situational? Yes. Incredibly potent in ledge trapping situations against people who respect bomb? Also yes.

 

[Arthur97]

The fact it only works at 0% though seems like its too situational.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Collision 2022 seeding. Yep, we got seeding for the major next week before Summit, which happens this week.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/t6mitd

 

[Diddy Kong]

Collision 2022 seeding. Yep, we got seeding for the major next week before Summit, which happens this week.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/t6mitd

Surprised to see Diddy there three times, Mewtwo too, and Falco two times, even a Corrin player. It does me well to see this.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Upsets so far at Summit 4 round robin pools

Light 3-0 MkLeo
Chag 3-2 Tweek
Fatality 3-2 ProtoBanham

 

[Rizen]

Upsets so far at Summit 4 round robin pools

Light 3-0 MkLeo
Chag 3-2 Tweek

Wow, good job Light. But this means losers bracket Leo is... UNLEASHED!!!

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Wow, good job Light. But this means losers bracket Leo is... UNLEASHED!!!

Nope. That's not how Round Robin Pools works. Leo could still get top 2 seed in his group and be in winners.

 

[Rizen]

Nope. That's not how Round Robin Pools works. Leo could still get top 2 seed in his group and be in winners.

I didn't realize the format.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Our RR games for today have concluded. Tomorrow will begin the second half of pools.

Glutonny 3-0 NAKAT
Glutonny 3-2 Light
Light 3-0 MkLeo
MkLeo 3-0 NAKAT

Sparg0 3-0 Elegant
Sparg0 3-1 Lavish
Tea 3-1 Elegant
Tea 3-0 Lavish

Dabuz 3-0 Chag
Dabuz 3-0 BassMage
Tweek 3-0 BassMage
Chag 3-2 Tweek

Maister 3-1 Fatality
Maister 3-2 Goblin
ProtoBanham 3-0 Goblin
Fatality 3-2 ProtoBanham


The biggest highlights of this bracket so far is definitely Light vs MkLeo, Glutonny vs Light, Chag vs Tweek, and Fatality vs ProtoBanham.

Edit: Also, poor BassMage. Dabuz and Tweek came into the matchup prepared and smoked him.

 

[Sucumbio]

Sometimes I think Leo let's people win so he can crush them extra hard the next time.

Meanwhile

pic.twitter.com/wz5dy1hPu0

— PrinceDemo (@PrinceDemo_) February 22, 2022

Lol. Icies.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sometimes I think Leo let's people win so he can crush them extra hard the next time.

Meanwhile

pic.twitter.com/wz5dy1hPu0

— PrinceDemo (@PrinceDemo_) February 22, 2022

Lol. Icies.

For the love of GOD..... don't post this. We don't want Icies back on their Brawl **** don't we ?

These characters will never truly be "normal" much least functional. This is why I wasn't upset at all they got removed in Smash 4.

Nevertheless, those are some cool shenanigans.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Summit matches so far:
Glutonny 3-2 MkLeo
Light 3-2 NAKAT
Elegant 3-1 Lavish
Sparg0 3-0 Tea
BassMage 3-2 Chag
Dabuz 3-2 Tweek
Goblin 3-2 Fatality
Maister 3-2 ProtoBanham

Summit tie breakers for Group C:
Chag 2-0 BassMage
Chag 2-1 Tweek

Summit tie breakers for Group D:
Goblin 2-0 Fatality
ProtoBanham 2-0 Goblin
ProtoBanham 2-1 Fatality

Summit gauntlet
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/t7o3zt

 

[The_Bookworm]

The other half of pools has concluded.

Glutonny 3-2 MkLeo
Light 3-2 NAKAT


Sparg0 3-0 Tea
Elegant 3-1 Lavish


Dabuz 3-2 Tweek
BassMage 3-2 Chag
Chag 2-? BassMage (Tiebreaker set)
Chag 2-1 Tweek (Tiebreaker set)


Maister 3-2 ProtoBanham
Goblin 3-2 Fatality
Goblin 2-0 Fatality (Tiebreaker set)
ProtoBanham 2-0 Goblin (Tiebreaker set)
ProtoBanham 2-1 Fatality (Tiebreaker set)



Here is our gauntlet stage bracket:

ProtoBanham vs (Winner of Tweek vs Lavish)
Chag vs (Winner of Elegant vs NAKAT)
Tea vs (Winner of MkLeo vs Fatality)
Light vs (Winner of Goblin vs BassMage)


Those already moving on tomorrow in winner's side: Glutonny, Sparg0, Dabuz, Maister

 

[KirbySquad101]

We're potentially gonna get an MKLeo vs. Tea and a ProtoBanham vs. Tweek set before the bracket even begins...

What is this tourney lol

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Gauntlet phase A:

Tweek 3-0 Lavish
Tweek 3-1 ProtoBanham

Gauntlet Phase B:
Elegant 3-1 NAKAT
Chag 3-1 Elegant

Gauntlet Phase C:
MkLeo 3-0 Fatality
MkLeo 3-1 Tea

Gauntlet Phase D:
BassMage 3-0 Goblin
Light 3-1 BassMage

 

[The_Bookworm]

Here is tomorrow's bracket.


Winner's
Glutonny vs Tweek
Sparg0 vs Chag
Dabuz vs MkLeo
Maister vs Light


Loser's
NAKAT vs ProtoBanham
Lavish vs BassMage
Fatality vs Elegant
Goblin vs Tea

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm very curious to see BassMage's Jigglypuff honestly. These are some solid results already for the puffball.

 

[Sucumbio]

Gluttony clamped down hard maybe his grounded game approach has paid off...

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Mexico currently is absolutely cracked. All their top 4 are in winners side, while two of Japan's best players (minus Zackray) are in losers. That's really good for sword enthusiasts, and .

 

[NairWizard]

I wonder what's up with Leo? I don't mean his losses (his opponents played very well), I mean the way he's emoting between moments and sets and the crazy sloppy ledgetrapping decisions he's made in some games. Very uncharacteristic behavior that I haven't seen from him in all the years he's competed.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Sets for Ultimate Summit 3 main bracket. Will update until MkLeo vs Sparg0 finishes at Winners Semis and then I'll have to go as it's getting late in the UK.

Losers Round 1:
Goblin 3-0 Tea
Elegant 3-2 Fatality
BassMage 3-1 Lavish
ProtoBanham 3-0 NAKAT

Winners Quarters:
MkLeo 3-2 Dabuz
Sparg0 3-1 Chag
Light 3-2 Maister
Tweek 3-0 Glutonny

Losers Round 2:
ProtoBanham 3-1 Dabuz
BassMage 3-2 Chag
Elegant 3-0 Maister
Glutonny 3-2 Goblin

Losers Top 8:
ProtoBanham 3-1 BassMage
Glutonny 3-2 Elegant

Winners Semis:
Light 3-2 Tweek
Sparg0 3-1 MkLeo

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

I wonder what's up with Leo? I don't mean his losses (his opponents played very well), I mean the way he's emoting between moments and sets and the crazy sloppy ledgetrapping decisions he's made in some games. Very uncharacteristic behavior that I haven't seen from him in all the years he's competed.

I agree, his overall gameplay feels much more… panicky? I think his worst performance was against Fatality in the first game, he seemed very impatient and impulsive, it felt as if he missinputted a lot as well.

 

[NotLiquid]

For a character who's steam evaporated a good deal in light of the nerfs, I'm extremely impressed that Proto's Min Min managed to go carry her weight against Dabuz, who has one of the best understandings of the match up and turned her into a liability for Proto in their last encounter.

 

[The_Bookworm]

The Spanish Inquisition is fizzling out fast. Both Chag and Maister are out at 9th.

Only Sparg0 and MkLeo remains and they are about to fight eachother, meaning that one of them is guaranteed going to loser's.


Edit: BRUH WHAT IS SPARGO ON TODAY? The greatest Cross Slash in Smash history.

 

[superjm]

Light vs Tweek might be among my favorite matchups to watch in general. Both these characters just ruin each other in so many ways that both players have to be on their toes 100% of the time or else they just get deleted instantly. I feel like the mechanics of Ultimate don't really lend themselves that well to this kind of crazy, volatile matchup so seeing two pinnacle players scrapping it out like that is just a joy to watch.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Smash Ultimate Summit 4

1st: Sparg0
2nd: Light
3rd: ProtoBanham
4th: MkLeo
5th: Glutonny
5th: Tweek
7th: Elegant
7th: BassMage
9th: Goblin
9th: Maister
9th: Chag
9th: Dabuz
13th: NAKAT
13th: Lavish
13th: Fatality
13th: Tea


Sparg0 has finally done it. He has finally won a major, and it was mainly with Cloud Strife on top of that.

 

[Kokiden]

Congrats to Sparg0.

It's good to see amazing results with Cloud, and he played really well.

I hope this puts to rest all the "Sephiroth is better than Cloud" takes I see online all the time. It's simply not true.

Tweek has a Sephiroth but he never pulled him out because he just can't handle high level play. He's too slow, light and unreliable. People overrate him too much, and it sucks because I really wanted him to be good, but he's not.

Surprised with Mkleo this tourney.

Pythra never struck me as a Leo character, and seeing his performance here just reinforces that idea to me.

Byleth, yes. Definitely a character that suits him. Pythra, no.

I feel like he's just jumping on the bandwagon because she's considered the best in the game now.

I seriously think he would have performed better with Joker if he used him instead, yet he keeps sticking with Aegis for some reason.

 

[F4lcoMain]

Smash Ultimate Summit 4

1st: Sparg0
2nd: Light
3rd: ProtoBanham
4th: MkLeo
5th: Glutonny
5th: Tweek
7th: Elegant
7th: BassMage
9th: Goblin
9th: Maister
9th: Chag
9th: Dabuz
13th: NAKAT
13th: Lavish
13th: Fatality
13th: Tea


Sparg0 has finally done it. He has finally won a major, and it was mainly with Cloud Strife on top of that.

Was the zelda pick a meme? Never seen MKLeo or Sparg0 use her before.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Was the zelda pick a meme? Never seen MKLeo or Sparg0 use her before.

That is Mythra's stock icon, not Zelda's.

Congrats to Sparg0.

It's good to see amazing results with Cloud, and he played really well.

I hope this puts to rest all the "Sephiroth is better than Cloud" takes I see online all the time. It's simply not true.

Tweek has a Sephiroth but he never pulled him out because he just can't handle high level play. He's too slow, light and unreliable. People overrate him too much, and it sucks because I really wanted him to be good, but he's not.

Surprised with Mkleo this tourney.

Pythra never struck me as a Leo character, and seeing his performance here just reinforces that idea to me.

Byleth, yes. Definitely a character that suits him. Pythra, no.

I feel like he's just jumping on the bandwagon because she's considered the best in the game now.

I seriously think he would have performed better with Joker if he used him instead, yet he keeps sticking with Aegis for some reason.

MkLeo did feel a bit off this tourney, but he managed to beat Glutonny and Dabuz with the Aegis.

Leo did say that he is considering eventually using Joker again, but he doesn't find him enjoyable to play.


Oh yeah, I considered Cloud > Sephiroth even before this event, but this pretty much solidified it. Sephiroth as a whole is kinda in a very awkward spot in the meta rn.

 

[Kokiden]

MkLeo did feel a bit off this tourney, but he managed to beat Glutonny and Dabuz with the Aegis.

Leo did say that he is considering eventually using Joker again, but he doesn't find him enjoyable to play.


Oh yeah, I considered Cloud > Sephiroth even before this event, but this pretty much solidified it. Sephiroth as a whole is kinda in a very awkward spot in the meta rn.

I think tweek will dial back Sephiroth, or just abandon him altogether after this, because why use him when his Wario and Diddy is much better?

I can see Seph usage for major tourneys either going down, or if he's used, just not being able to go far.

At least there's Cloud to rep FF7 for me lol.

I genuinely do not see Leo going back to Joker, because how many times has he said this now? Lol

Perhaps if he loses more games, he will seriously consider it but I'm not sure he will even after this loss (even though I think he should but he's the player here so he decides of course)

 

[NairWizard]

5 years ago, at ZeRo Saga in Smash 4, a young MKleo defeated ZeRo (who got 4th place) to fight top Fox player LarryLurr in Grand Finals.

History really does repeat itself.

 

[Idon]

Sephiroth I feel is a very good character with a few achille's heels that unfortunately are all highly exploitable by the other top tiers and especially top players.

The longish startup attacks, linear hitboxes, low weight AND tall height just make it such that if he isn't controlling the pace of the match on his terms, he can get pressured quite hard, despite some very powerful tools

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Update to the characters who have won majors chart

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sephiroth is just a way too shakey character, using him is a huge risk that can blow up in your face, and that's just unfavorable. Guess same could be said about Pichu and Mewtwo, but those surprisingly get some solid results as of late.

Tweek has a very technical Diddy, and a good Wario, he is mostly a Diddy main and his play with the character is amazing. Though he sometimes does lose a few matches I think he shouldn't have, but he's consistently showing his Diddy is a major treat.

And despite what results say, I would argue Wolf and ROB at least are top tiers. We can now confidently state Fox and Cloud are still top tiers in this game too I feel.