Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Hydreigonfan01]

Something to note is that this update was back at August 16th, 2021, so MSM 240 and the SWT event ARE NOT counted within the list.
This means some things:

• Remember the high amount of play we saw during that week? Well the Aegis's rise from 25th to 15th DID NOT count that. Even if SWT isn't weighted as much as MSM 240, Cosmos' victory at that tournament means that an immense rise is going to be imminent anyways.
• For SWT, characters that will see notable benefit will include . The former three is obvious. The latter three seems like a rise, but not to the same extent, as Gunner and Pikachu is a 7th place victory in a 16 entrant tournament, while Yei used many characters in that tournament, notably Palutena where he used her as much, if not even more than MK.
• For MSM 240, already highly ranked characters like will like this event quite a bit. The performances of ven and especially T3 DOM should help out with the points of those two characters, who are ranked close to average in the list. Ned's performance in this tournament means that got a little wind in his sails for the weekend.

Another thing to note is that MSM 240 is a category 4 tournament, while SWT is a middle category 3 event, so the former tournament will be weighted more.

That may not be the case actually, looking at Barnard Loop's tweet.

Character Update for OrionStats. Pyra goes from 25 > 15, rapidly rising after favorable performances at SWT CenAm Finals, MSM 240, and PTL 13. pic.twitter.com/1r727EP8Pa

— Barnard's Loop (@LoopBarnard) August 26, 2021

On another note about Pythra, multiple top players have been playing Cosmos and Sparg0 at friendlies in Summit, and they all think the character is top 3.

Okay i played Cosmos in 5 games and yeah Mythra is top 3 lol

— Moist | Aaron (@AaronFGC) August 26, 2021

pyra and mythra are top 3

summit has shown me the power of pyra and mythra

i think they are fun to fight tho

— Peanut (@Peanut_SSBU) August 26, 2021

 

[PK Gaming]

New OrionStats update.

OrionStats - Smash Ultimate 2021 TTS (Updated December 25th)

TTS Page & Character Results - Phase 4 Tournaments,Region ,Date,Category,Point Total,Notes,Overall Score - Category 1-5,International Score - Category 3-5,Regional Score - Category 1-2 <a href="https://smash.gg/tournament/mainstage-2021/event/ultimate-singles/brackets/1028047/1617341">Mainstage ...

docs.google.com

• Pyra/Mythra jump up from #25 to #15, they now have the highest ranking of any FP2 character and the second highest out of any DLC character in general, behind . In addition, they are also the third highest sword character, below and .
• Byleth gets a slight rise due to Leo's win at SWT: Central America Regional Finals with them.
• Steve goes up by a single placement due to DDee's run at the recent 4o4 Smash Monthly.
• Mario goes up due to Kurama's placement at Mega Smash Mondays 240.

My personal opinion is that some of the competitors do have legit personalities. WaDi, Kola, Aaron and VoiD all have great streams, with WaDi and Kola IMO being rather funny. Zackray is by far the most popular Smash player, all his videos have 1 million+ views on Youtube.

That said, I feel like there's other players who people only watch because they're good such as Leo and Tweek.

I know we haven't had many majors in a while, but Pikachu isn't even top 25 and yet people uncritically still claim that he's top 3. No presence at summit or recent tournament wins. The best non-eSAM NA representative wants to switch over to Mythra/Pyra.

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Got some quality matches so far.

Notably enough, Dark Wizzy 1-3 Atomsk

 

[Ziodyne 21]

I will be kinda shocked of / get at tokem nerfs if the next /possibly last balance patch. I mean if the nerf because she is becoming dominant in one region (that being Japan) They have to be looking at how Pyra/ Mythra are rising up fast almost everywhere

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Got some quality matches so far.

Notably enough, Dark Wizzy 1-3 Atomsk

Aside from that, other big upsets include Aaron 3-0 Tweek , Sparg0 3-2 KEN and Sparg0 3-1 Tweek .

 

[Sucumbio]

Got some quality matches so far.

Notably enough, Dark Wizzy 1-3 Atomsk

I loved atomsk comment after the victory... "can I swear?" haha. He did a great job tho, that match-up is dreadful.

 

[Arthur97]

Hopefully they don't go too crazy with the Pyra and Mythra nerfs. Unlike some DLC, they don't really have anything truly insane, they're just very solid. At least to the point where they really shouldn't seem unfair.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I’m picking up pythra

— AoR | Chag (@Chagspc) August 27, 2021

Chag is picking up and after watching Sparg0 and Cosmos play at Summit.
This is starting to get levels of insanity, we've had three top players pick up the character as either a main or secondary since the SWT.
Edit: Cosmos and Charles did a video on Pyra/Mythra's viability. Something pointed out is that Cosmos thinks their recovery is better than Smash 4 Cloud without Limit, but worse than Cloud with Limit.

 

[Nah]

As much of a cynic and what most people would call a pessimist (though I think I'm just being realistic) as I am, I don't think that we really have to worry about Pythra being the second coming of . This is the Smash game that has long been widely considered to be more balanced than previous entries, with possibly a bit of reason to believe that is really the case this time, unlike in Smash 4. The devs seem to have learned from, to some degree at least, their mistakes from Smash 4--which is also why that even if I'm wrong, there's a better chance that they'll be properly reined in.

 

[Hippieslayer]

The South American world tour qualifier was a more enjoyable watch because of it's great tempo. They didn't waste time between matches. I enjoy hearing top players thoughts right after games. But all those stupid competitions? I want to watch smash not Dabuz failing to build a dog house.

 

[Sucumbio]

Wtf lol. I guess the frat house analogy is truly spot on. Inb4 Beer pong next.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

As much of a cynic and what most people would call a pessimist (though I think I'm just being realistic) as I am, I don't think that we really have to worry about Pythra being the second coming of . This is the Smash game that has long been widely considered to be more balanced than previous entries, with possibly a bit of reason to believe that is really the case this time, unlike in Smash 4. The devs seem to have learned from, to some degree at least, their mistakes from Smash 4--which is also why that even if I'm wrong, there's a better chance that they'll be properly reined in.

I do agree those three are much better, my point was more that Pythra being so absurdly common is similar to what those three did to their metas, even if Pythra is overall worse due to Ultimate's fantastic balancing. Like when a character has a lot of top players are using them (More than say Joker did), the character's overcentralizing the meta around itself.
For example, MVD has a pocket Pythra too.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I encourage anyone that is serious about the game to have an Aegis and a Palutena in their pockets.

There is no good reason not too.

 

[Hippieslayer]

why Palu over Wolf

why cant ddd be the best super heavy? ddd's bad matchups dont seem quite as horrible as bowsers or dk's, like they get completely destroyed in some matchups where ddd loses but not as badly because he has a better disadvantage stage and recovery

 

[Ziodyne 21]

CharlieDaKing 3-0 Cosmos .

Charlie is really steeping up this summit, also showing Wolf still has mad sauce..

 

[The_Bookworm]

That Riddles vs VoiD match was such a nail-biter.
VoiD 3-2 Riddles

That entire match is the complete epitome of the strengths and weaknesses of both characters to the absolute extreme.

Sheik was completely and utterly dominating Kazuya in neutral and in disadvantage (VoiD admits that he could've pushed edgeguards more), while she was low-profiling a lot of Kazuya's buttons. A lot of the match looked like a Sheik vs Ganondorf match.
But when Riddles touches him once, he was eating all that percent back. That 0-death combo on game 3 pretty much shows that off.
Sheik's KO'ing issues where also shown, as VoiD was shown multiple times to have a lot of difficulty closing out stocks against a character as heavy as Kazuya, so he was living up to 150+% a lot of the time.

It is a matchup of a character who is focused mostly on neutral vs a character is pretty much 95% advantage state.

It reminds me of the vs matchup in that regard: Sheik utterly dominates neutral vs both of them, so she wins on paper, but then they touch you (in the case of DK, grab you), then Sheik explodes, while Sheik has trouble safely getting her KOs on them (particularly DK).
Imagine that, but with an even lighter version of Sheik, and you get the Kazuya matchup.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Gautlent is going on with Maister 3-0'ing Cosmos in a dominant fashion completely opposite on how he crumbled in the MU during the online era.

Cosmos unfortunately be going into the "Coschoke"

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Gautlent is going on with Maister 3-0'ing Cosmos in a dominant fashion completely opposite on how he crumbled in the MU during the online era.

Cosmos unfortunately be going into the "Coschoke"

Cosmos also does not have the MU knowledge of G&W that Leo and Sparg0 possess.

 

[SKX31]

Cosmos also does not have the MU knowledge of G&W that Leo and Sparg0 possess.

Even so, there's something to be said that Maister has done much better vs. Sparg0 offline than online - the MU knowledge aspect goes both ways. Even if Sparg0 and Cosmos differ in how they play their Mythra / Pyra Maister gained a lot by beating both Sparg0 and Cloudy back to back during the SWT regional.

No, Cosmos didn't have the MU knowledge, but one reason I remain wary of the Aegis being top 3 is that we haven't seen that much (counter-)development yet. I can certainly buy that they're Top 10 and have a lot of the positives needed to reach Top 3, but I can't help but to feel that a lot of pros are jumping the gun and are looking mainly at what's right in front of them instead of what's ahead. If they become as common as you know there'll be more focus on counter-acting them too if possible.

Of course, this could also be just the fact that Maister is a top 10 / top 5 player, but if he developed an playstyle vs. Aegis players we can't discount that others will too.

Also: KEN vs. Dabuz 1 - 3 after one of the best Rosa comebacks I've ever seen in Game 3.

The fact that Maister, KEN and either Dabuz or Kola will start in LB tomorrow is going to help make tomorrow's bracket amazing. I'm sensing a deep losers run.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Kola 3 - 1 Dabuz for Gauntlet Group D Finals. Kola is on the winners side.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I do have to say, poor Dark Wizzy .

It has been a pretty rough summit for him so far. Getting 3 stocked by MkLeo at the end of the crew battle was already rough.
However, he has not won a set so far in bracket, losing to Atomsk 3-1, MkLeo 3-0, Kola 3-0, and Riddles 3-1.


He still has loser's bracket tomorrow, but I hope he eventually gets back into shape in the future. Being pretty much inactive for 1.5 years due to the online era can be rough.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Even so, there's something to be said that Maister has done much better vs. Sparg0 offline than online - the MU knowledge aspect goes both ways. Even if Sparg0 and Cosmos differ in how they play their Mythra / Pyra Maister gained a lot by beating both Sparg0 and Cloudy back to back during the SWT regional.

No, Cosmos didn't have the MU knowledge, but one reason I remain wary of the Aegis being top 3 is that we haven't seen that much (counter-)development yet. I can certainly buy that they're Top 10 and have a lot of the positives needed to reach Top 3, but I can't help but to feel that a lot of pros are jumping the gun and are looking mainly at what's right in front of them instead of what's ahead. If they become as common as you know there'll be more focus on counter-acting them too if possible.

Of course, this could also be just the fact that Maister is a top 10 / top 5 player, but if he developed an playstyle vs. Aegis players we can't discount that others will too.

This kind of strikes a chord the conspiracy theoy art of my brain on why MKLeo has barely used Pyra/Mythra offline. I mean he stated he wanted to use them, they seem like just about the ideal character for Leo's playstyle. I am sure i am not in the minority thinking Leo can do insane stuff with them. But why has he not started using them like Sparg0 or Cosmos He may be testing the waters and maybe playing the long game/ Galaxy Brain strategy for the competitve meta once the last FP2 character is released and Balance Patches are over with

Maybe he is seeing if/how hard they may be affected in balance changes. Say these scenarios

A. He wants to see if they get nerfed to a point where they are not as easily accessable or worth using with his other mains. Or if a effective counterplay for the them rise up

B. He legit wants to main them,
But if he contributes to their early success it increases the risk of thir getting stronger nerfs.

C. MKLeo just wants to have a good time and give the audience a good time by going against the grain and showing he can be the #1 player in the world while using a character considered mid-tier at best. (My personal hope lol)

 

[NairWizard]

Mythra just isn’t a Leo character. Pyra is, but you really need a lot of Mythra to make Aegis work. Some predictions for tomorrow…

I really would like to see Leo win but I don’t see him beating Tweek or Marss, or even Zackray. Mostly, Leo doesn’t have an answer to Tweek’s Diddy. It’s a terrible matchup for Byleth that he can only win if Tweek chokes super hard or he knows some super secret Byleth neutral tech that he hasn’t shown yet. Aegis does better but you have to play almost exclusively Mythra to enjoy an advantage there and I don’t think Leo takes it if he goes that route. Joker loses the MU but would be his best bet if it were practiced.

Marss is playing like a demon and I can see him taking it over Kola despite Roy being a bad matchup. If Marss vs Tweek happens I see Tweek coming out on top just due to matchup advantage, though.

meanwhile, I think sparg0 can beat Riddles if he plays carefully enough. Aegis has all the tools for that matchup and sparg0’s Aegis in particular will do great since he uses so much Pyra.

zackray vs void could go either way, but sparg0 can definitely beat both, though he could choke too easily and zackray must have a lot of Aegis experience.

overall winner I predict is winner of Tweek and Marss. Sparg0 is more of a wild card because he’s pretty young so choking is a big possibility, but I can totally see him taking it too. I don’t think there will be a grand finals reset, because whoever is in WF will just ride the momentum train to the win.

if Leo wins this I’ll be really happy, but I don’t think Byleth with a Pyra-focused Aegis is the path to victory here. There are too many bad matchups.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I don't think Pyra & Mythra are broken. They're simply very good. They have some glaring weaknesses in recovering and kill power. I don't think a nerf is needed, but if they get one, I hope it won't be harsh.

 

[Gearkeeper-8a]

We will see if mythra/pyra can past the test of half the roster developing counterplay to your character and if before the last character is out you still see midlevel players picking the aegies, then you can make a case for them being broken.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

zackray vs void could go either way, but sparg0 can definitely beat both, though he could choke too easily and zackray must have a lot of Aegis experience.

Zackray's Aegis experience in his set from Cosmos apparently came from playing friendlies with Sparg0.

スパーリング手伝ってもらったspargoのおかげかな！とりあえず順調〜

— ザクレイ/Zackray (@Ssb4_Zackray) August 27, 2021

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Well Min-Min got nerfs twice in balance patches for the reason she was starting becoming dominant in one major region (That being Japan).

I cant say the Aegis will not at least get minor nerfs if they start doing as well all across the world

 

[Lacrimosa]

While I see this, MVD probably picked them up just to counter Ven specifically.
It's pretty clear, but that MU is dreadful for Zelda and even Meru, who is a very optimistic Zelda player, says it's "impossible" if the opponent knows what to do.

 

[The_Bookworm]

We have our first casualties in Ultimate Summit 3.

Charliedaking 3-0 Atomsk
Cosmos 1-3 Aaron
KEN 1-3 Maister
Dark Wizzy 0-3 Dabuz


These four players are out at 13th.

 

[PK Gaming]

Diddy dumb as ****

Sorry, unproductive post

Diddy is inarguably top 5 and a ridiculous character. So many tools for almost every situation, absurdly good matchup spread, strong damage and KO setups. Idk why people don't gas up that character more

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Hmm MKLeo's Pythra did seems as polished as Sparg0's or even say Cosmos. He has the opposite issue of the latter seeming relying on Pyra too much over Mythra.

I wonder why MKLeo seems so hesitant on Using Joker now.

Maybe CharlieDaKing was on to something on how proper shielding is the best counterplay for the Agies. In game MKLeo count not lant that last killing hit because Tweek was Sheilding/Parrying/avoiding every single button MKLeo's Pyra went for to thy and close the game

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Delete plz

 

[toonito]

I'd be surprised if he doesn't go Joker from here on out

 

[PK Gaming]

Leo's in a tough spot considering he's said that his Joker is rusty

 

[Ziodyne 21]

What an unfortunate SD causing a near reverse 3-0 to die . Kola just pulled a Maister vs Marss

 

[The_Bookworm]

That was the most painful game 5 I have ever seen.

Not because they were making much mistakes.

But because I have never seen 's multi-hits dis-function as much as that single game (including that up B that whiffed at point blank), then there is 's up B with a very non-so-generous sweetspot at the ledge.

Not even the best of characters is immune to Ultimate jank.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

I dont think I have seen a finishing touch out a singles match since pre-patched

 

[Spinosaurus]

Diddy is interesting. He wins a lot of very relevant matchups, but loses to a lot of random mid tiers that it's kinda hard to really place him. In most cases he'll definitely seem like one of the best characters until people start counterpicking.

Reminds me a lot of SFV Honda lol. Extremely strong against the meta and just inherently deals with so much of what the game enables, but just struggles too much when it's the occasional niche zoner.

 

[The_Bookworm]

We got our first sets in the winner's bracket completed.

MkLeo 0-3 Tweek
Marss 3-2 Kola
Sparg0 3-2 Riddles
zackray 3-1 VoiD

 

[Ziodyne 21]

The Zackray vs VoiD set was kind of sad. Void could dominate neutral and get ahead in perncent. But then Arsene comes out and Zackray erased the lead with one or two hits.

Amazing effort by VoiD.. and Sheik may still be very good. But is likeh not going to be top-tier unless she get down-B special transform again only change into Pyra