Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Aaron1997]

本日のリザルトです！
Impact#13 優勝はHutoさん(@huto_ssbu)
おめでとうございます！

アーカイブはこちら↓https://t.co/S2MsqW5DVB
次回のImpact#14は8月6日です！
またの参加をお待ちしております！！#町田Impact pic.twitter.com/sihxvhmfis

— IMPACT ARENA (@ImpactArena_) July 30, 2021

Never change Japan

 

[!Big Brother!]

Peach is still top tier; online meta was absolute horrible for her and her best player is unavailable. It’s understandable for people opinions to drop of her. Her meta is still advancing. Like I’m pretty sure she loses most top tier MU online. She did at one point eliminate Leo’s Joker from a tourney and send him to losers twice or more irrc.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

In preperation for The Comeback, here are results from The Grind 148

1. naitosharp
2. Riddles
3. ZD
4. Puppeh
5. Mj
5. AoS
7. NoTag
7. Jerry

I honestly think Sharp was seeded way too low for The Comeback. He's the third best Joker at this point outside of Leo and Zackray and it's not even close. He is the second offline Joker to have a win on Riddles, the other being Leo.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

So a this big upset in at The Comeback Ft. Tweek
in first brackets

TheMightyDialga 2-1 Riddles


Kazuya absolutely hates being juggled in the air. Kazuya's disadvantage in the air is so bad Dialgs was able to pull Smash 4 Bayo kills combos on him game 1

 

[Nobie]

I'm starting to think that the characters who do well against Kazuya are just the ones that can manage to keep up with or outpace him in damage. In the Esam Kazuya vs Vendetta Shoto exhibitions on Panda's YT channel, Ryu and Ken get so much off of Kazuya's mistakes that it lets them maintain parity in the war. Bowser's the same. Bayo might possibly be in that category.

The reason why little Mac suffers despite seeming like he could potentially did well is because while he hits pretty hard, he doesn't have a really extensive advantage state that's focused more on damage than positioning.

Incidentally, Wadi beat TheMightyDialga a few weeks ago going all Mewtwo at a local.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Good good.

Hopefully this forces Kazuya players to start using more of their other tools and have more awareness.

 

[Cheryl~]

Good good.

Hopefully this forces Kazuya players to start using more of their other tools and have more awareness.

This is like asking Smash 4 Ryu players to stop fishing and play neutral.

it’s possible, but it probably won’t happen until the game is about to die.

 

[Emblem Lord]

This is like asking Smash 4 Ryu players to stop fishing and play neutral.

it’s possible, but it probably won’t happen until the game is about to die.

Except Smash 4 Ryu neutral did not coalesce with his win condition.

It was like playing two separate characters.

Kazuya is far more cohesive and well designed compared to Smash 4 Ryu.

The reasons why Smash 4 Ryu became what he was is for that very reason. Playing clean neutral didn't really "do" anything. Playing explosive and random was the only competitively viable option.

Kazuya definitely does not fall into this trap.

 

[blackghost]

Good good.

Hopefully this forces Kazuya players to start using more of their other tools and have more awareness.

Yeah this looks like riddles just mentally messed himself up. he shouldve switched he clearly looked lost in the MU. he shouldnt have been blown out like that by that bayo.

diagla is a decent bayo but he got blown up by peanut becuase diagla's execution isnt on point.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Looking back at the set, part of me wonders if Riddles should've gone for more Jump Side Kicks against Bayo. Kazuya's range and hitboxes are good, but so many of the starters Riddles tried going for extended Kazuya's hurtbox or pushed him forward, letting Mighty get away with so many Up B's OoS.

His grabs work, but they stop combo'ing at certain percents, especially against Bat Within, and EGWF ignores shields, but it also doesn't necessarily bait out the Up B from Bayo the same way Jump Side Kicks (or one of his moves that involve major shield pushback) could.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yeah this looks like riddles just mentally messed himself up. he shouldve switched he clearly looked lost in the MU. he shouldnt have been blown out like that by that bayo.

diagla is a decent bayo but he got blown up by peanut becuase diagla's execution isnt on point.

Losing to Peanut brings up an interesting point. Kazuya and Little Mac both have strong ground games and play primarily close to the ground. Of course Peanut has that 3 year head start, but I will be happy to analyze his set to make comparisons to the Bayo vs Riddles set.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Top 8 of the Comeback
Winners
Tweek vs Puppeh
Cosmos vs WaDi
Losers
TheMightyDialga vs Iota

PinkFresh vs Riddles

 

[Cap'n Jack]

本日のリザルトです！
Impact#13 優勝はHutoさん(@huto_ssbu)
おめでとうございます！

アーカイブはこちら↓https://t.co/S2MsqW5DVB
次回のImpact#14は8月6日です！
またの参加をお待ちしております！！#町田Impact pic.twitter.com/sihxvhmfis

— IMPACT ARENA (@ImpactArena_) July 30, 2021

Never change Japan

You go Banjo!

 

[The_Bookworm]

Riddles 3-0 Pink Fresh

Riddles... just kinda destroyed him.
He went off to Terry immediately, likely to avoid going for the Kazuya vs Min Min matchup (which I must illiterate, sounds like an awful matchup for Kazuya).

It makes me wonder if Riddles had to switch off from Kazuya to Terry at anytime during his loser's bracket. His loser's bracket run is kinda poorly documented.
Twitch chat has confirmed that he had to do so in order to beat Wal00gi (top Snake player from Virginia), but I don't know if he did vs naitosharp (who double eliminated him at The Grind a few days ago).

Edit: Don't know what he used vs Puppeh either, but I am assuming this one is Kazuya since he has beaten Puppeh with Kazuya before.

 

[NotLiquid]

Pink Fresh was really good this tournament. His MDVA rise is coming into its own much like when he picked up Bayonetta in Smash 4. It's a real shame that his set with ZD wasn't streamed; he was projected to lose that, and ZD plays characters that give Min Min a hard time, but he ended up doing a clean sweep. He's definitely found his character with the game.

The set with Cosmos was weird; I think even he realized by the end of game 3 that he got way too complacent after Cosmos practically gave him a two-stock lead to work with. Mythra had to chip away percentages in so many neutral exchanges that at any point a good Megawatt slap would've probably set up advantage in Pink Fresh's favor, though this was also Battlefield which is kind of a bad stage to let an opponent counterpick you if you're Min Min, and Cosmos in general has been on fire this tournament despite a lot of SDs (taking Tweek to Game 5 is nothing to sneeze at).

The set with Riddles I get the sense that Pink Fresh relied a little too much on Min Min's "comfort zone", and by that I mean it's really not a great idea to corner camp against Terry, like, at all. All of Terry's safest options traditionally convert into something that, at best, carries a lot of horizontal knockback, so the moment he decides to approach you're already risking a stock deficit if Terry wins at making a safe guess. You see this at game 3 when every single stock Riddles took was from a DAir that he conditioned Pink Fresh to be set up for, and you especially see this at the end of Game 2 where Pink Fresh is at the verge of winning, gets caught by a few stray hits, then eats a Buster Wolf at 58% and gets deleted because he drifted towards the other end of the stage rather than toward the center. Edgeguarding should also be a bit more aggressive in this matchup; Terry is a character you should go off-stage against more often since he can't afford throwing out hitboxes beyond his initial side B, and unless you're hitting him at a diagonal up angle he'll invariably be forced to recover low because of his awkward ledge snap at Rising Tackle, which Pink Fresh clearly wanted to try catching multiple times but couldn't do because of how Riddles has basically perfected recovering low.

Riddles had a killer run this tourney after getting sent early to losers, though I'm genuinely left wondering whether his loss against Dialga scared him off of the Kazuya given how much he's been rocking Terry in the available footage.

Also I'm expecting several write ups about WaDi (especially his Mewtwo) and Tweek's Diddy Kong in the coming days, people better not let me down. Also, two(!) Ridleys in Top 16.

 

[The_Bookworm]

The Comeback - Feat. Tweek (258 Entrants)

1st: Tweek
2nd: Cosmos
3rd: WaDi
4th: Riddles
5th: Puppeh
5th: TheMightyDialga
7th: Pink Fresh
7th: Iota
9th: naitosharp
9th: ZD
9th: enhancedpv
9th: BONK!
13th: Atomsk
13th: smub
13th: Wal00gi
13th: Mata-Door
17th: Barking_Frog
17th: Disgaea
17th: Mj
17th: BacoN
17th: SlushieV1
17th: Fang
17th: Peanut
17th: Mercury
25th: Mr. E
25th: Joe-J
25th: Jerry
25th: Dexter
25th: player 4
25th: Clovers
25th: LetitRain
25th: Beast


Observations:

• Double in top 16, with one making it to top 8, is very impressive, especially with perception on the character kinda declining in the minds of several top players.
• BONK! made some waves with in this tourney. He didn't beat anyone really notable, but he notably took a game off of Tweek and finished at 9th.
• TheMightyDialga has held the fort with . Very strong showing with the character in this tournament, sending Riddles down to loser's very early on, and eliminating BONK! and Iota from the tournament, before ultimately falling to WaDi's Mewtwo.
• Riddles showed up big time this tournament. However, we didn't get to see his much at all this tourney as some of us expected. The only match in the tourney that featured his Kazuya on-stream, was his defeat against Dialga. Instead, we see his back in the fray, as he used him for pretty much the entirety of the top 16 in bracket (as far as we can tell), although it is still unknown what character he used earlier in bracket. I heard that he hasn't played Terry in a very long time prior to this tournament, especially ever since Kazuya came out (it has already been over a month since he came out believe it or not). It looks a bit rusty, but it still put on quite the show.
• WaDi showed off quite a bit of potent throughout the entire tournament, notably sending naitosharp to the loser's bracket and eliminating Dialga from the event. Towards the end of the bracket, he mainly focused on his trusty R.O.B., which is ferocious as ever. He also got a bit cheeky with the Wii Fit Trainer, even taking a game off of Riddles with him.
• Cosmos' performance here is the first huge showing of in an offline big event, especially from someone who plans to solo main her long term. His Mythra is definitely the more seasoned of the two and precise of the two, while his Pyra very YOLO most of the time. He almost "Chokemos" against WaDi in loser's finals, but he still narrowly pulled out on top.
• Until MkLeo returns to competing, Tweek and his is definitely the big boss of major tourneys right now. He played a little Sephiroth earlier in the bracket, but his Diddy is definitely the star of the show. Still not much of a showing of Sephiroth that some players probably expected.

 

[Aaron1997]

Riddles 3-0 Pink Fresh

Riddles... just kinda destroyed him.
He went off to Terry immediately, likely to avoid going for the Kazuya vs Min Min matchup (which I must illiterate, sounds like an awful matchup for Kazuya).

It makes me wonder if Riddles had to switch off from Kazuya to Terry at anytime during his loser's bracket. His loser's bracket run is kinda poorly documented.
Twitch chat has confirmed that he had to do so in order to beat Wal00gi (top Snake player from Virginia), but I don't know if he did vs naitosharp (who double eliminated him at The Grind a few days ago).

Edit: Don't know what he used vs Puppeh either, but I am assuming this one is Kazuya since he has beaten Puppeh with Kazuya before.

He went Ken vs Sharp

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Results for Cherry's Glasmine 001.

1. Sparg0 (Sparg0 confirmed he didn't use Cloud at all in the tournament)
2. Maister
3. Chag
4. BigBoss
5. Javi
5. Pineda
7. Santiago9 (No clue who he mained)
7. Chick

The G&W matchup against Pyra/Mythra seems pretty bad offline too (Though not as bad as it is online thanks to parrying being easier to do). Sparg0 beat Maister twice in the grand finals reset, as well as Chag twice. Seems as though when Sparg0's playing at his best, he's the second best in Mexico behind MkLeo.

Pyra and Mythra's OrionStats this weekend.

 

[KirbySquad101]

"Seems pretty bad offline too", Maister 3-0'd him in the Winner's Finals and went 4-6 in total against him, that's already lightyears better than his 0-12 performance against him online, and is arguably better than any other player's win record against Sparg0 so far lol.

The MU still looked rough in certain areas, namely Mythra's whiff-punishing abilities with dash attack and Pyra's corner pressure, but actually being able to parry half of Pyra's telegraphed aerials or reading their movements to press GnW's advantage makes the MU look 10 times more bearable offline.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

"Seems pretty bad offline too", Maister 3-0'd him in the Winner's Finals and went 4-6 in total against him, that's already lightyears better than his 0-12 performance against him online, and is arguably better than any other player's win record against Sparg0 so far lol.

The MU still looked rough in certain areas, namely Mythra's whiff-punishing abilities with dash attack and Pyra's corner pressure, but actually being able to parry half of Pyra's telegraphed aerials or reading their movements to press GnW's advantage makes the MU look 10 times more bearable offline.

Yeah, it's not as bad as it is on wifi (Which is funny because I'm still pretty confident Pyra/Mythra is better offline) but it does seem like the MU for G&W still isn't the greatest. I could still see ZSS, Shulk and Ike giving G&W more struggle than Pyra/Mythra though.

 

[SKX31]

SWT South America Regional finals... oh boy. Looks like it was pre-recorded yesterday, with the replays uploaded on Shared Content - where searching for the player names gives the matches in question (allegations here and here) - and streamed on VGBootcamp today... partly. Including a leaked bracket. Not only were some sets like Losers' Semis not streamed in the restream, but the character names were shown instead of the player names - which is indicative of them being replays. Oh and VGBootcamp pretends it's all live.

Regardless of whether this Regional was overshadowed by The Comeback - VGBootcamp's own tournament, also held yesterday - or something else was primarily behind this... screwup, it's still really scummy from SWT's and VGBootCamp's part. Not least since it sweeps an entire scene under the rug effectively.

Results (copying SSBWiki's result table since it includes links to each player) - the winner, Br1 AV, qualified for the Global Finals:

1st	Br1 AV
2nd	Frido
3rd	jjcat00
4th	Anality
5th	Keen
5th	Ghoul979
7th	Ran
7th	LinkEa
9th	Toon
9th	Wise
9th	OZN~Tales
9th	Poyo
13th	ZanT
13th	Player 7
13th	Luffyranha
13th	Lukitu

 

[KirbySquad101]

SWT South America Regional finals... oh boy. Looks like it was pre-recorded yesterday, with the replays uploaded on Shared Content - where searching for the player names gives the matches in question (allegations here and here) - and streamed on VGBootcamp today... partly. Including a leaked bracket. Not only were some sets like Losers' Semis not streamed in the restream, but the character names were shown instead of the player names - which is indicative of them being replays. Oh and VGBootcamp pretends it's all live.

Regardless of whether this Regional was overshadowed by The Comeback - VGBootcamp's own tournament, also held yesterday - or something else was primarily behind this... screwup, it's still really scummy from SWT's and VGBootCamp's part. Not least since it sweeps an entire scene under the rug effectively.

Results (copying SSBWiki's result table since it includes links to each player) - the winner, Br1 AV, qualified for the Global Finals:

1st	Br1 AV
2nd	Frido
3rd	jjcat00
4th	Anality
5th	Keen
5th	Ghoul979
7th	Ran
7th	LinkEa
9th	Toon
9th	Wise
9th	OZN~Tales
9th	Poyo
13th	ZanT
13th	Player 7
13th	Luffyranha
13th	Lukitu

GIMR has made a response making some clarifications about the whole SA debacle, including their thought process behind re-streaming the SA qualifier and other details such as why delaaying the SA qualifier wasn't feasible: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/ow1kbl/_/h7dyosq
I understand we are getting a bit off-topic at this point, and if the mods want me to drop it, I'll oblige, but I do think this is something important to read and talk about considering that it concerns an entire competitive region here. One that could've very well had its chance to make its big breakout with an event as big as the Smash World Tour.

 

[Hippieslayer]

I think cosmos's pythra shows great promise, he's got tons of room for improvement and optimization, I mean he makes a ton of questionable decisions every game and he's very off/on, at any given time he's either dishing it out hard or screwing up, getting his ass beat and being gimped or sd'ing. I hope he sticks with them. His playstyle with them should pay off in the long run, because he doesn't rely on abusing Pyra's stupid buttons nearly as much as other Pythras, instead he's pushing the boundaries of what he can do with Mythra. Perhaps a little too much, I wish he would incorporate switching more and I think his Pyra is kinda underwhelming atm.

But learning Pyra is a lot easier than Mythra, because playing her you play at a much higher tempo. You have to make quick decisions in a steady stream at such a pace that its easy to screw up. With Pyra on the other hand you can focus completely on reading your opponent, and spacing and timing accordingly, because she's that easy to control in comparison to her counterpart. Because of that I think what Cosmos is trying to do with the character is harder than what most people including Spargo have been doing (although I haven't even watched Sparg0s latest tournaments so I'm not sure that's correct but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say).

Pyra is really strong right now, but I think she will get weaker with time as people get better at timing parry's and understanding how to counterplay her, I think people give her too much respect, letting her hover in the air and mix up her timings and making it very easy for her to space her attacks. Optimal play should kinda involve a lot of switching even if that's gonna be hard to learn it should be really good since it forces the opponent to readjust mentally every time. Right now it's like most people lean a little heavy on Pyra, whereas for Cosmos its the opposite.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I think cosmos's pythra shows great promise, he's got tons of room for improvement and optimization, I mean he makes a ton of questionable decisions every game and he's very off/on, at any given time he's either dishing it out hard or screwing up, getting his ass beat and being gimped or sd'ing. I hope he sticks with them. His playstyle with them should pay off in the long run, because he doesn't rely on abusing Pyra's stupid buttons nearly as much as other Pythras, instead he's pushing the boundaries of what he can do with Mythra. Perhaps a little too much, I wish he would incorporate switching more and I think his Pyra is kinda underwhelming atm.

But learning Pyra is a lot easier than Mythra, because playing her you play at a much higher tempo. You have to make quick decisions in a steady stream at such a pace that its easy to screw up. With Pyra on the other hand you can focus completely on reading your opponent, and spacing and timing accordingly, because she's that easy to control in comparison to her counterpart. Because of that I think what Cosmos is trying to do with the character is harder than what most people including Spargo have been doing (although I haven't even watched Sparg0s latest tournaments so I'm not sure that's correct but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say).

Pyra is really strong right now, but I think she will get weaker with time as people get better at timing parry's and understanding how to counterplay her, I think people give her too much respect, letting her hover in the air and mix up her timings and making it very easy for her to space her attacks. Optimal play should kinda involve a lot of switching even if that's gonna be hard to learn it should be really good since it forces the opponent to readjust mentally every time. Right now it's like most people lean a little heavy on Pyra, whereas for Cosmos its the opposite.

I think a good way to put it is that Cosmos is more into the actual character, where as Sparg0 and Leo are more just relying on their excellent fundamentals at playing sword characters. I think while Cosmos goes mainly Mythra, Sparg0 is good at both but slightly prefers Pyra, and Leo is almost entirely a Pyra player.

But yeah, I agree that Pyra's going to be a similar position that Ike was back at the very start (Genesis 6/Frostbite 2019 time) considering she basically is DLC Ike.

 

[KirbySquad101]

The prospect of Pyra slowly fizzling out in the long run in favor of Mythra is something I'm starting to feel the more and more I rewatch Maister's, Chag's and Sparg0's sets.

Aside from the few instances he used Mythra for the occassional dash attack, all 3 games were mostly the Pyra show. And it general makes sense why that was the case: Relying less on perfect movement and more on just swinging around a giant sword means that Pyra is much less likely to play at GnW's range than Mythra is, or at the very least, an untrained Mythra would be. That, and having a myraid of aerials that AC in short hop allows her to control much more space and make her more threatening to deal with in those corner situations where players don't have much room to avoid her attacks. There definitely is a fear factor that comes with attempting to challenge the character who can blow you up at 100% when you can't just rely on running off somewhere else and punish her landings that way.

At the same time, though... a lot of the things Maister used to win the set in Winner's Finals (parrying Pyra's buttons, using GnW's stronger air movement to get away from juggle scenarios, inching in to avoid Pyra getting carried away with her corner pressure), all felt like things he either dropped and/or executed poorly. And at that point, Sparg0 ran through with all that - it allowed him to effortlessly space out attacks with Pyra, it allowed him to get easy juggles whenever Maister would fall on him with key, and it even allowed him to get away with poorly spaced Flame Novas. I felt this to a lesser extent with Chag as well which is even more odd to me, because Palu - on top of having GnW's burst movement - also has the ground speed he lacks to escape Pyra's giant sluggish sword, even from a corner.

Part of me wonders if Sparg0 will integrate Mythra better going forward, because at the moment, she feels very much like a "means to the end" type of character the way he plays her. There are moments where he'll keep for a while, specifically when going for her oppressive juggles, but for the most part, he's itching for that dash attack to land, and the moment it does, he's staying as Pyra until that stock ends, even when neutral is resetted. And while it definitely works (for now anyway), I feel like Mythra's faster movement may lend her to chasing opponents' better whenever they are in the dangerous offstage scenarios Sparg0 loves to put them in, even if the payoff may not be nearly as big as Pyra's. Not just that, but even just outspacing opponents may end up being in Mythra's favor in the long run as players get a better grip of her slipperiness that feels very reminiscent of Fox's or Greninja's movement that definitely feels odd to get used to at first.

To be clear, I'm not saying that Pyra's advantages are overbloated to the point of being nonexistent or that her pressure demands no respect at all. There are very few characters who have the frame data, range, and movement to consistently challenge every hitbox she throws out. But I feel like the two players who did manage to win sets over Sparg0 (Maister and Chag) tend to over-respect and borderline fear her in the sets they do lose in to a degree that at some points they're just sitting in the corner for a good 5-10 seconds with a slowly deteorating shield while Pyra is given all the time in the world to perfectly space her hitboxes. They're pretty much telling the Pyra she can do whatever she wants. And that's not something you really shouldn't be saying against the hard hitting lady whose drawback is supposed to be that doing anything takes her time.

Right out the gate, I'll just say now that I'm not going to use the "counterplay" argument to downplay their current success; their results definitely paints a good sign of things to come for them in the future. BUT, I will say, they are just as fresh in the meta as any of the other DLC characters, including characters like Kazuya and Steve that people DO like throwing the counterplay argument against a lot. Things are inevitably going to change for the duo later on, for better or for worse. Probably for the better given their current representation, but ya never know lol.

 

[The_Bookworm]

On the topic of , I do have a question.

In NA, Kazuya is currently represented by Axiom and Riddles, the former of which seems pretty on board with the character and the latter in the TBD side. There is also a few other FGC players interested in playing around with him (I believe Vendetta is one of them).

However, I don't really know anyone outside of NA that is really interested in the character. Haven't really heard anyone notable in Europe.

In particular, I am interested in Japan. Despite Japan being the place you would expect interest in a character as technical as him, the region has been very quiet about the character ever since his release over a month ago. I don't know anyone notable there either that is interested in the character. Also makes me curious on about what Japan as a whole thinks about him viability-wise as well.

Could anyone enlighten me on this?

 

[Sucumbio]

l

This Vendetta's list. I agree with a lot of this but not all...

The_Bookworm

I agree the response has been muted ... Frankly I am surprised that there isn't any mention of him being picked up by anyone of note (or at all for that matter lol) but something tells me the cultural differences between na and Japan are in play a bit here.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

l

This Vendetta's list. I agree with a lot of this but not all...

The_Bookworm

I agree the response has been muted ... Frankly I am surprised that there isn't any mention of him being picked up by anyone of note (or at all for that matter lol) but something tells me the cultural differences between na and Japan are in play a bit here.

He does say that the list isn’t ordered, which is important to mention.

 

[Arthur97]

Sonic and Terry better than Min Min...

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm curious to know if you all think the uptick in covid around the country and really everywhere is gonna force tournaments back online.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

🐿 pic.twitter.com/1T8DgN6bfG

— J (@ArmadilloLucari) August 5, 2021

Armadillo posted a Lucario matchup chart, and unlike most people he seems rather optimistic on the character, believing he's a high tier. Though he did win a pretty big regional recently going mostly solo Lucario.

 

[blackghost]

l

This Vendetta's list. I agree with a lot of this but not all...

The_Bookworm

I agree the response has been muted ... Frankly I am surprised that there isn't any mention of him being picked up by anyone of note (or at all for that matter lol) but something tells me the cultural differences between na and Japan are in play a bit here.

theres a few things that i disagree with and cannot wrap my head around.
mac and zelda being on the same tier is a no for me right away.
more importantly the god tier and some of the top tiers: peach and daisy are not god tier. terry is not god tier.
kazuya shouldnt be placed at all.
game and watch should be god tier.
steve should be god tier or nearly in it at this point.

lastly does shulk actually belong in god tier?
like many other tier lists I see posted they dont seem to match the accepted MU charts from thier mains or data.
I think general statments should make sense when your list is described. According ot this list, Ryu, Byleth, and cloud are all in the same tier.
Another statement Wii fit, sepiorth, and game and watch are all in the same tier.
no list is perfect but once again i think a good majority of these characters are over estimated.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Tbh I don't even think God Tier exists in Ultimate, because that just makes me think of or where those characters were considered the best by a large margin, without anyone even close. Hell, the Japanese Brawl Tier List put Meta Knight as the only "God Tier" character, not even were there.

 

[Aaron1997]

Charles proposes a Hazards On stagelist.

 

[Arthur97]

Okay, just starting off with the video...but too many stages? Really?

 

[blackghost]

Okay, just starting off with the video...but too many stages? Really?

We have a small stage list for a laundry list of bad reasons (from fear mongering to "I don't want to learn"). I do think it's sad that it takes more time and effort to learn stages in injustice 2 and soul calibur than a platform fighter.
But choose your battles, when stage transitions and every traveling stage was left for dead the writing was on the wall. People never seem to get it:the smaller a stagelist long term sets up for the game to be dominated by higher tiers. Happens every time.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Ive always been a stage liberal, I view that having a wider stage list when it is reasonable is healthy for the game.

First off, I think smash as a spectator sport benefits from a wider stage selection. The amount of ire Sm4sh Smashville or even Ultimate PS2 get, where people will default to it at points, has gotten ire from spectators. Having a large stage list makes matches feel more fresh. I will for the rest of this rant avoid anecdotes like this, but I do think it has enough merit to be brought up.

One thing a wider stage selection does is it can help make matches be less campy depending on the selections made. PS2 is might appear to be a very neutral stage, but it has large blastzones and is a big stage, disproportionally benefiting zoners and characters with amazing mobility. Offline people might complain about how good Joker, Snake, or Wolf were, when they kept bringing them to their best stage. I would also say that while there are certainly other factors that help zoners online such as terrible netcode, the insistence of PS2 definitely does not help.

Furthermore, within reason, a varied stagelist can make the prospect of stage striking and counterpicking more important and skill testing. For example, lets say that I am playing against a Sonic main as the Aegis, with a starter ruleset of FD, Battlefield, Small Battlefield, Northern Cave, and Smashville as starters, with PS2, Yoshi's, Lylat, and Town as counterpicks and a Game Centered DSR is in effect and winner has two bans. We start on Small Battlefield and I win. The Sonic will get to choose the stage now, and I have two bans. I have to think about what would the best bans be in this circumstances. Now for this scenario, assume I am a good player who knows the benefits of stage striking. While I may be comfortable enough on PS2, I know the Sonic will be comfortable there as well, so I ban it. I also likely ban Northern Cave since it would be the easiest for Sonic to run away on. The Sonic knows this and is also good at stage striking. They decide that with NC and PS2 out, they have to think about the MU and decide that the size of Town with its occasional platforms is enough to help them, and choose that and win. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and the sonic bans Battlefield and Yoshi's. I can't go to Town or SB due to DSR, and I can not take advantage of my best stages. However, I can go to Smashville and try to use the stage's smaller size to ensure he can not run away.

Now, lets flip that scenario onto a smaller stage list, with just FD, Battlefield, Smashville, Town, and SB as starters, with PS2 and Northern Cave as counterpicks. the same rules are in effect. Game one is still SB, game two is still town. Now, the sonic bans Battlefield and Smashville, forcing me to either take him to FD, PS2, or Cave. Needless to say, this disproportionately benefits some characters a lot and makes stage striking nowhere near as skill testing potentially.

I also hate the argument that learning new stages is "hard". While learning a new stage might be a little hard, most of the same general fundamentals will carry over from stage to stage. In this example, I am an up and coming player, and I know the ins and outs of SB, Smashville, FD, and Battlefield. I can use the knowledge I have from Battlefield and Smashville to learn the intricacies of Yoshi's. From my BF experience, I know how to take advantage of platforms and tri plats, and from my Smashville experience I know how to adapt to smaller stages. That being said, I do have to learn how to adapt to slanted ledges, platform heights, and blastzones, but my fundamental understanding I subconsciously grew from playing other stages has helped me get ready for this. Now lets take that and apply it to Lylat. I learned from Yoshi's how to handle slanted ledges when I ledge trap and space, I learned from BF, Smashville, and Yoshi's how to deal with approaching someone under a platform and how to pressure people on platforms. I just need to get accustomed to the new layout. Most of the intricacies of stages as a whole carries over, with really the only thing changing is the kill % on certain kill confirms depending on the blastzones. As a result, I feel that the issue is less that people do not want to learn a new stage due to it being hard, but rather because it is not fun remembering what % your inkling Up Throw Up air is a kill %. Once again, similar to stage striking, this is another way in which we get a higher skill ceiling which is generally good.

Now, there are some areas where I do understand people might object to too many stages being legal or specific issues with Stages. NC has finnicky music copyrights, so we could easily see that being an issue for tournaments. We also have the issue of stages being too similar. Imagine if we had Yoshis, Battlefield, and Midgar legal. Now that poor Sonic in the earlier example could no longer avoid counterpicking to a trip plat with those rules. I would say a stage list of anywhere from 8-11 though sounds totally reasonable. If I had my say on what the stagelist would be, here is mine.

Starter
Battlefied (and BF Forms)
FD (and Omega Forms)
Smashville
Small Battlefield
Northern Cave

Counterpicks
Yoshi's Story
Pokemon Stadium 2
Town and City
Lylat Cruise

If I wanted to go to 6 CPs, I would also have included Castle Siege and either Mementos, Kalos, Minecraft, or Yggdrasil's as the final counterpick. But I would say that is a fine stage selection.

Honestly, so long as the stage list is not too bloated with similar stages and we do not have too many issues with licensing music, I think having a larger stage list within reason is a benefit.

That being said, while in theory a hazards on ruleset could be a viable choice, I think that there really is not that much of a need for one. I get Charles' points, but I just do not see how a hazards on stagelist really adds much other than further restricting the stage list. If we did Hazards off, we would basically sacrifice what we have now for a slightly worse Smashville, Fountain, and bad Lylat. Unless you are super conservative with stage selection, I doubt that Hazards on would really be that great of a change.

Also bigger stages are fine for doubles as a minor addendum, I would say that having things like Mementos or Minecraft's best layouts legal for doubles would be fine, but that's not really relevant.

 

[Arthur97]

As far as the spectator aspect, they could at least mix it up using Omega and Battlefield variations more.

As for NC, are there any songs that are completely safe? If there are, My Music is a thing, or just picking a song manually.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I more or less told you all that Tweek picking up Diddy meant Diddy is once again a Top Tier character in Smash. Where can I watch these sets of his ?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I more or less told you all that Tweek picking up Diddy meant Diddy is once again a Top Tier character in Smash. Where can I watch these sets of his ?

Here's a playlist of all the singles sets of The Comeback.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcMdMmtHkPpRNiwhQqskVvJQU_hOjwf91

But on the whole thing of Diddy being a top tier? Not even Tweek thinks that according to his tier list on Tweek Talks.