Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Thinkaman]

Very interesting writeup on Pikachu. I'm curious, what's your take on Shulk? Shulk is another character who is usually put in top 5 or top 10 but whose results are not stellar (but seems like they're getting better). Do you think Shulk is also overrated? Or does he have what it takes to be a top 5 or top 10 character? Unlike Pikachu he does have Monado Arts which is easily one of the best moves in the game, so that's something (well, without it he wouldn't be a contender for top tier at all).

I considered pre-9.0.0 Monado Armor hitstun canceling to be one of the most underoptimized (and busted) tools in the game. I figured at the time that Shulk would rise realiably over time as further abuses (with minimal possible counterplay other than just not using entire categories of move against him) emerged and became commonplace.

Post fix I honestly have not really had a good grasp on where Shulk is. Also curious how his range-heavy gameplan fits into any of the FP2 DLC matchups.

So yeah, I was really bullish on Shulk pre-pandemic, and have no idea atm. He definitely has top-10 level results, and could be interpreted as top 5 for a lot of outlooks. (He is hard to play and pick up, and his numbers are rising.)


Das Koopa has updated OrionStats 2021 with InfiniteCon, which is a milestone step in growing back into a more useful broader picture like its predecessors. The biggest oddity so far is, Where the hell is Min Min? (The answer being down at #54, with neighbors like MK, Banjo, and DDD.)

A deeper dive suggests that the answer is mostly just, not playing in these events:

• Dabuz hasn't played offline at all yet. (Except for the invitation he is playing in as I type this!)
• ProtoBanham only attended TSC 13. (which he won, with Min Min)
• Pink Fresh was looking great at Xanadu, but isn't represented in any of these events.

• Omuatu is a lengendary online player who has only started playing offline, 3 regional events in the past year. (He does seem to be improving offline, so we'll see how big of a threat he becomes in the different environment.)
• Freetox, the French online player, has yet to play in an offline event ever (I would guess it's likely that he joins the offline world due to the SWT regional if nothing else, but it's anyone's guess how quickly he will adapt.)

• ESAM, if he was going to use his (very good) Min Min at all, has not played offline at all yet either.
• Similar for Kanaji, whose Min Min is very strong, has played offline little and has mostly been sticking to Snake.

At a lower level, various regional threats (mostly in Japan) seem to be doing quite well at events just outside of the scope of OrionRank.


A very comparable situation exists with who was #40 (and seemed to be rising?) when the pandemic hit, but is tied with Min Min behind DDD and Marth on the current OrionRank. Specific handful of mains, not really attending any of these events. (Except Tsu, who got 5th at Kagaribi 3 but otherwise hasn't attended events.)

I emotionally feel like Sephiroth is coming out of the gate hard, getting adopted even faster than Joker. But the pandemic warps our sense of time of course; by this point in Joker's life by the clock, he was closing in on Wolf's #1 spot about to overtake him. An unfair comparison to be sure, but Sepiroth is technically the DLC with the best initial performance at this precise moment--including Joker!

 

[SKX31]

So Momentous Top 8:

1st. Tweek
2nd. LeoN
3rd. Dabuz
4th. Tilde
5th. NickC
5th. Jackal
7th. John Numbers
7th. Light

Somewhat expected showings, with a couple upsets: Jackal besting Light and LeoN taking the LB final set against Dabuz. A couple personal notes:

• Considering that he's not been playing much, Light getting 7th is not that bad. Of course, it's still underwhelming - but he didn't look entirely "out of shape" either. There's a chance that he warms up over the coming months, perhaps not to his pre-pandemic self but still.
• Definetely think that Jackal will be overall rather happy with getting 5th and beating Light. He's not been that active during the Wi-Fi era and got 49th at the SWT Northeast qualifier, so getting that placement at an offline invitational is a good sign for him.
• LeoN's scrapping seemed to kinda catch Dabuz off guard a bit even as he switched to Min Min. Most notable with the double spike to seal the set, but there were a lot of instances when LeoN would just go with an option and disrupt Dabuz's gameplan. Dabuz for that matter was really close to getting the Tweek rematch, but Dabuz didn't look as much in control in the set vs. LeoN as say his set vs. Tilde. Which was more one-sided.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Wonder why Tweek decided not to use at all during the invitation. Considering this was offline and Tweek is one of the big notable Sepiroth main and advocate out there

 

[Frihetsanka]

Wonder why Tweek decided not to use at all during the invitation. Considering this was offline and Tweek is one of the big notable Sepiroth main and advocate out there

As far as I know he hasn't been practicing Sephiroth much lately, probably because he doesn't like Sephiroth online as much. Presumably once offline practice comes back he will practice Sephiroth more, given that he likes the character a whole lot and is also very optimistic about the character.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

As far as I know he hasn't been practicing Sephiroth much lately, probably because he doesn't like Sephiroth online as much. Presumably once offline practice comes back he will practice Sephiroth more, given that he likes the character a whole lot and is also very optimistic about the character.

I guess that makes sense I mean proof was that Sepiroth is doing pretty well for himself offline, ahead of any other FP2 character , well kight catch up a bit with recent results

 

[KirbySquad101]

Rewatching the vods, I was able to catch most of the vods involving NickC, Tilde, LeoN, Tweek, and Dabuz, and to be honest... it was kind of a misplay galore lol. Between NickC's frequently dropped set-ups/combos, Tilde's repeated bad habits that never seemed to get better (i.e. Side-B'ing right into Bowser's shield), Dabuz's missed edgeguard opportunities and random SD's, and the spaghetti DI all-around (how on earth does Diddy die at 80% against Bowser FTilt?), it is clear there was a bit of a rough transition from online to offline, moreso than InfinityCon for me.

To be honest though, that just makes me excited more than ever to see how well these players all perform once they get the residue off from their online shackles for good.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Tweek's is something, but I don't think Tweek could solo win a major with just Diddy and he will have to go . When offline truly comes back for Japan, then Tea will start to travel and apparently is really hard for Diddy. In addition, there's a lot of good zoners that can scrap being used by top players that Diddy struggles against, including , , and a non-zoner in . That said, I think Diddy does very well against most of the rest of the cast and is a very viable character, meaning he probably has the best chance of beating Leo's Joker.

 

[TimG57867]

Tweek's is something, but I don't think Tweek could solo win a major with just Diddy and he will have to go . When offline truly comes back for Japan, then Tea will start to travel and apparently is really hard for Diddy. In addition, there's a lot of good zoners that can scrap being used by top players that Diddy struggles against, including , , and a non-zoner in . That said, I think Diddy does very well against most of the rest of the cast and is a very viable character, meaning he probably has the best chance of beating Leo's Joker.

Yeah even with Tweek’s godlike fundamentals, Dabuz still managed to put him on notice with his counterpick. Dabuz actually won a game with the Alph (quick aside but Olimar could be getting underestimated. Myran still shreds with the character on a good day and that damage output is unholy. I recall Tweek going from 0 to 95% in less than 10 seconds!) and was a pretty close to taking the other games but Tweek managed to clutch those out. I bet if Dabuz took two games in a row, Tweek may well have swapped himself.

Heck Tweek even got thrown for a loop by LeoN’s . Compared to his Bowser (which Tweek just seems to have too much room to freestyle on with that hurtbox) it wasn’t super polished (particularly was a bit weak on punish game. I am no Banjo main but there’s a lot places he coulda punished Tweek hard with a simple Up Smash). In spite of that, it still kept him on his toes, even taking it to last stock. Made me wonder what was possible if it was more refined.

If Tweek’s Diddy is here to stay and starts to become a major force in brackets of upcoming majors, we may well see a lot of the top echelon increasingly refine their zoner secondaries to try and stop him and the top level zoner mains could be key bracket obstacles. Diddy’s zoner matchups were a bit sus even in SSB4 and now most zoners are better while Diddy is a bit worse. And if that comes to past, the question is how Tweek would respond. At this time the likely response is him whipping out more. I recall him using it to clutch out a key set against Sinji’s during online qualifiers.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Tweek's is something, but I don't think Tweek could solo win a major with just Diddy and he will have to go . When offline truly comes back for Japan, then Tea will start to travel and apparently is really hard for Diddy. In addition, there's a lot of good zoners that can scrap being used by top players that Diddy struggles against, including , , and a non-zoner in . That said, I think Diddy does very well against most of the rest of the cast and is a very viable character, meaning he probably has the best chance of beating Leo's Joker.

Take note that Diddy is very hard to play online, I do think that Tweek is able to make Diddy work for him, even solo. PacMan also has less issues online due to overall being a way more slow paced character vs Diddy who's extremely momentum based.

I think it's very possible Diddy will be considered a Top Tier again by Tweek's hands soon enough.

 

[Frihetsanka]

If Tweek’s Diddy is here to stay and starts to become a major force in brackets of upcoming majors, we may well see a lot of the top echelon increasingly refine their zoner secondaries to try and stop him and the top level zoner mains could be key bracket obstacles. Diddy’s zoner matchups were a bit sus even in SSB4 and now most zoners are better while Diddy is a bit worse.

Sephiroth is good versus pretty much all zoners aside from Min Min, who Diddy is fine versus anyway. Sephiroth + Diddy seems like a very strong combination and Tweek could use both if he wants, if anyone can play more than one character well it's Tweek. Give him a few months of Sephiroth offline grinding and he'll show the world what Sephiroth can do, assuming he doesn't grow tired of Sephiroth for whatever reason. Based on his latest tier list he seems to have a lot of faith in Sephiroth though.

Edit: Seems his plan is to mostly main Diddy Kong and use Sephiroth and Wolf as backups. So I guess Tweek won't be the main Sephiroth player at all. Maybe Ned will be? Though Ned is also not solo Sephiroth, using Pokémon Trainer as well. See: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1055352532?t=0h8m25s

 

[Ziodyne 21]

So got resutls again with Kequing (formerly Nair^) winning Maruchan Gaming Series. A online tourament in Mexico with 2000+ players. Kequing won going near solo hero using in his GF sets vs Spargo where he managed to win after the bracket reset.

A character with that much randomness and Jank will never be totally unviable..

 

[Frihetsanka]

A character with that much randomness and Jank will never be totally unviable..

It really depends on a variety of factors. RNG is always a factor, yes, especially with Zoom, although Hero will often get two rolls per off-stage so he has a decent chance to get Zoom. Aside from that buffs are probably the best use of Menu, and which buffs he's getting is partially RNG, yes. Some projectiles and melee moves can have use from his menu, RNG crits play an occasional role, but overall he probably benefits more from strong advantage state when he gets the right buffs combined with a strong side-B and neutral-B.

How good is Hero actually? We don't really know yet, although it's plausible that he's high-mid tier or even high tier. Many Hero mains seem to think he's top tier, although I'm not sold on that yet. Zoom is fairly busted though...

 

[Nobie]

Brood's Piranha Plant matchup chart:

私の勝てます勝てません表 pic.twitter.com/x3G2lBzTyg

— ブルード (@Broodt) June 14, 2021

I don't think I see many of these, but what sticks out to me is how all over the place Plant's matchups seem to be. Loses to some low tiers but does well against some top tiers. Seems to do all against certain dedicated zoners but not others. Dislikes the Pit matchup???

 

[WatwatBreton]

Plant matchups being all over the place makes sense on paper, the character's toolkit (aka "ptooie and filler moves") is pretty polarized after all.

Also this seems extremely optimistic lol, with no -2 mus and most top tiers being slightly losing or better. Japanese player seemed more optimistic in general about matchup numbers though. No even matchups is amusing too I wonder what's up with that.

As far as the -1 go they seem to be good at dealing with ptooie by outranging it. Samus charge shot doesn't care, minmin doesn't care (maybe usmash reflector is a factor too?), sephiroth doesn't care and probably kills you at 0 if he counters it somehow, snake doesn't care, ivy doesn't care, and villager/isabelle care so little I wonder how the heck u even win at this matchup. As for pit my guess would be a combination of good footsies (that character's grounded movements+ grab reward are super good tbh) and a reflector + dpit arrow to camp if needed?

I'm curious to see if he ever played against villager honestly i'll have to check, its the part that puzzles me the most lol. Ptooie becomes unusable so u have to break the fair wall with... plant ground speed and frame data. Maybe she does fine when she finally corners them?

 

[blackghost]

i know fatality is the bigger name but imo nick c is the better falcon he does place better vs higher level competition and unlike fatality he seems to have more fundamentals and less wild swings for kills shots and hype.

could be wrong but i would be interested to see anyone write an analaysis or breakdown of their play styles and histories. i dont play falcon so i could be ignorant but thats what my eyes tell me.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

All I know is that Nintendo needs to release DLC characters that are Hype AF for their E3 presentation and better have some other Hype reveals in store. Because this year's "E3" has made feel like I am slowly dying inside

 

[Emblem Lord]

Kazuya Mishima holy crap.

For the younglings in the Smash community of course this does not mean much, but when you consider that Tekken is the most successful 3D fighter in gaming history and led to much of Namco's success; this is a HUGE deal.

It seems like he has many moves that create ACTUAL stun states. If these led to kills then Kazuya might end up being the most threatening character on the ground.

I am also very interested in his Devil form. Probably another comeback mechanic, but it could be a win more mechanic such as Terry's GO!!. Oh, Kazuya also fulfills the "we need more villians" quota. He is....not a good person at all.

Air mobility is probably pure garbage, but his ground mobility might be off the scale thanks to the wavedash.

Yes, Wavedashing comes from the Tekken series btw. Imagine if he can crouch dash in the air?! O_o

I cannot wait for the 28th.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Another high-tier fighting game character

 

[Diddy Kong]

Another high-tier fighting game character

Probably Top Tier. He looks seriously busted.

 

[NotLiquid]

Looks like wavedashing's back on the menu, boys!

 

[Wunderwaft]

EWGF better be broken as hell if we wanna make Kazuya accurate to his source game haha

 

[blackghost]

Kazuya Mishima holy crap.

For the younglings in the Smash community of course this does not mean much, but when you consider that Tekken is the most successful 3D fighter in gaming history and led to much of Namco's success; this is a HUGE deal.

It seems like he has many moves that create ACTUAL stun states. If these led to kills then Kazuya might end up being the most threatening character on the ground.

I am also very interested in his Devil form. Probably another comeback mechanic, but it could be a win more mechanic such as Terry's GO!!. Oh, Kazuya also fulfills the "we need more villians" quota. He is....not a good person at all.

Air mobility is probably pure garbage, but his ground mobility might be off the scale thanks to the wavedash.

Yes, Wavedashing comes from the Tekken series btw. Imagine if he can crouch dash in the air?! O_o

I cannot wait for the 28th.

what if sakurai makes the double electric as hard to do in this game as it is in tekken? just like ken and ryu he has a combo game that was pulled diectly from his source game (looks mostly tekken three)
this is gonna be fun.

 

[Emblem Lord]

what if sakurai makes the double electric as hard to do in this game as it is in tekken? just like ken and ryu he has a combo game that was pulled diectly from his source game (looks mostly tekken three)
this is gonna be fun.

With his wavedashing and super fast backdash it looks like he will be hyper ground intensive and reactive. He punished a hadouken from Ken with crouch dash dragon upper on reaction.

Alot of his moves seemed to have set knockback and stun states. His f-throw looked like it might be one of those, but we will see. I doubt there will be frame perfect inputs. Maybe EWGF only happens on a totally fresh Rising Upper? That would be one way to do it.

Also did he do an up b and then jump afterwards? I REALLY cannot wait until the 28th.

 

[blackghost]

With his wavedashing and super fast backdash it looks like he will be hyper ground intensive and reactive. He punished a hadouken from Ken with crouch dash dragon upper on reaction.

Alot of his moves seemed to have set knockback and stun states. His f-throw looked like it might be one of those, but we will see. I doubt there will be frame perfect inputs. Maybe EWGF only happens on a totally fresh Rising Upper? That would be one way to do it.

Also did he do an up b and then jump afterwards? I REALLY cannot wait until the 28th.

i think hes crazy enough to do frame perfect stuff, he dropped those input for terry SSM and basically said "go practice" plus he likes to preserve the purity of these characters especially the fighting game characters. 2 weeks of waiting hopefully one of the quality analysis youtube videos will shed some light.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I want to be the first to say it.

Kazuya is not a shoto.

 

[BlazGreen]

I want to be the first to say it.

Kazuya is not a shoto.

B-but he does the spinny leg move

 

[Rizen]

So got resutls again with Kequing (formerly Nair^) winning Maruchan Gaming Series. A online tourament in Mexico with 2000+ players. Kequing won going near solo hero using in his GF sets vs Spargo where he managed to win after the bracket reset.

A character with that much randomness and Jank will never be totally unviable..

But Spargo got 2nd with ? The pair is getting mad results online. Several Juiceboxes and frame perfect series. It just isn't reflected offline because their key players haven't attended offline events yet.

Probably Top Tier. He looks seriously busted.

IDK, it's hard to say. Speaking as a YL player, characters like the Shotos and Terry tend to struggle with zoners.

 

[BlueRando]

If Samurai is faithful to the source material, as usual, then the smash community is not ready for Kazuya's Electric Wind God Fist.

I'm calling it now: fast, great damage, pancakes through everything, combo starter into imagination, plus on shield.

Twitter will be on fire, bloodbaths everywhere, and i'm here for it.

 

[blackghost]

IDK, it's hard to say. Speaking as a YL player, characters like the Shotos and Terry tend to struggle with zoners.

1. ryu really doesnt really struggle with zoners. he cand definitely play the zone game.

2. kazuya can step through projectiles and easily punish.
most likely you are gonna have to treat him like lil mac where you dont want to challnege him in close range because he will mess you up for it. even among tekken characters kazuya has elite normals.

 

[Nobie]

Kazuya is a brilliant choice for many seasons, but my favorite is that he started off as the hero but became a villain over the course of the Tekken series. So in a sense, we're getting both a flagship mascot AND a baddie.

 

[Firox]

Kazuya is a brilliant choice for many seasons, but my favorite is that he started off as the hero but became a villain over the course of the Tekken series. So in a sense, we're getting both a flagship mascot AND a baddie.

I'll confess I really don't know much about Kazuya or his character from the Tekken series. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on his history? Like, how did he become a villain, what's with the demon form and what is his fascination with throwing people into a pit of lava?

 

[BlazGreen]

I'll confess I really don't know much about Kazuya or his character from the Tekken series. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on his history? Like, how did he become a villain, what's with the demon form and what is his fascination with throwing people into a pit of lava?

Kazuya was deemed unworthy by Heihachi when he was a boy and tossed him off a cliff. While unconscious he makes a deal with a demon to give him the power to beat his father although this was retconned in Tekken 7. He beats Heihachi in Tekken 1 and chucks him off a cliff (you can see why this is a meme). In Tekken 2 he's in charge of Heihachi's company but his demon side slowly corrupts him and it turns out Heihachi survived. Heihachi defeats Kazuya and, you guessed it, throws him into a volcano. Kazuya is revived by a rival company in Tekken 4 and he takes it over by force so he can challenge Heihachi in other ways. He finally beats Heihachi in Tekken 7 and * drum roll * throws him into a volcano.

There's also his son Jin who appears from Tekken 3 who acts as the third main character with Kazuya and Heihachi.

 

[Firox]

Kazuya was deemed unworthy by Heihachi when he was a boy and tossed him off a cliff. While unconscious he makes a deal with a demon to give the power to beat his father although this was retconned in Tekken 7. He beats Heihachi in Tekken 1 and chucks him off a cliff (you can see why this is a meme). In Tekken 2 he's in charge of Heihachi's company but his demon side slowly corrupts him and it turns out Heihachi survived. Heihachi defeats Kazuya and, you guessed it, throws him into a volcano. Kazuya is revived by a rival company in Tekken 4 and he takes it over by force so he can challenge Heihachi in other ways. He finally beats Heihachi in Tekken 7 and * drum roll * throws him into a volcano.

There's also his son Jin who appears from Tekken 3 who acts as the third main character with Kazuya and Heihachi.

The moral of the story? Don't lose a fight with Kazuya if a volcano is within walking distance...

 

[Ziodyne 21]

The moral of the story? Don't lose a fight with Kazuya if a volcano is within walking distance...

Basically the entire overaching plot and motivation of the main characters in the entire Tekken series can be summed up as "Daddy Issues". Or Mommy/Grammy/Wifey Issues in Tekken 7.

And there are literal demons, robots and a martial arts trained Bear, Panda and Kangaroo too I guess but who cares about all that?

 

[Thinkaman]

Dumb: "This character is broken, I can already tell on release day."

Smart: "This character is broken, I can already tell based on the 20 minutes of Sakurai Presents footage with in-development damage and frame values."

Genius: "This character is broken, I can already tell based on 70 seconds of footage attacking a dummy with no visible damage or knockback and unknown advantage/disadvantage states."

Ascended: "This character is broken, I can already tell because character #81 will have both the vibrational energies of 8 and 1--signifying supreme ambition--and will release under Cancer as Mercury ends its retrograde coinciding with the solstice."

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Dumb: "This character is broken, I can already tell on release day."

Smart: "This character is broken, I can already tell based on the 20 minutes of Sakurai Presents footage with in-development damage and frame values."

Genius: "This character is broken, I can already tell based on 70 seconds of footage attacking a dummy with no visible damage or knockback and unknown advantage/disadvantage states."

Ascended: "This character is broken, I can already tell because character #81 will have both the vibrational energies of 8 and 1--signifying supreme ambition--and will release under Cancer as Mercury ends its retrograde coinciding with the solstice."

Well his air mobility looks legitametly terrible, and having poor air mobility in Smash is likely a major fkaw unless you got a Monkey Flip or even Possibly Minecart to always keep the opponent on their air-toes

 

[Frihetsanka]

Let's keep in mind that Smash 4 Bayo was #1 in the game and Ultimate Bayo is low tier or mid tier. Smash 4 Ryu was top or high tier, Ultimate Ryu is probably mid tier. Smash 4 Corrin was top or high tier, Ultimate Corrin was arguably bottom 10 on release, etc etc. Until we have the actual numbers it's really hard to say how viable a character is.

 

[Firox]

Let's keep in mind that Smash 4 Bayo was #1 in the game and Ultimate Bayo is low tier or mid tier. Smash 4 Ryu was top or high tier, Ultimate Ryu is probably mid tier. Smash 4 Corrin was top or high tier, Ultimate Corrin was arguably bottom 10 on release, etc etc. Until we have the actual numbers it's really hard to say how viable a character is.

Exactly. I learned my lesson long ago never to judge a character until you've tried to play as/against them for at least 10-20 hours. That may seem like a long time to some, but it really is amazing what difference there is between 5 hours of practice and 15 on a brand new character. My experiences thus far:

early: wow, it's Sm4sh Shiek with a super saiyan mode!
later: Def good in the right hands, but lacks range and struggles to kill without Arsene

early: OMG, so effing broken with Kaboom and magical blast and crits and....
later: Yeah, the RNG gods don't like me and that frame data ain't paying the bills

early: Huh, fun, but pretty quirky. Don't see them being very dangerous....
later: OK, wonder wing is stupid and grenade shenanigans can be brutal in the right hands

early: Cool, auto-combos! And awesome finishers! Gotta love pay to win!
later: OK, so people aren't going to stand within combo range, better learn how to optimize

.......

early: The new goddess of range!
later: Still has stupid range, but much harder to optimize than she looks.

early: This guy is so jank and stupid. No way he'll be competitive...
later: (Gets absolutely mauled by block combos and minecart mixups) I stand corrected.

early: SUPER HYPE CHARACTER but dang does his frame data suck. PASS!
later: Oh, NOW I get it, the reach compensates for the frame data. Guess this is what they call "balancing".

early: Absolutely stupid good. Broken. OP. Sakurai done ruined the game with this one.
later: Definitely good, but glaring weakness mirror their opposing strengths. Rock the opposition, just hope you don't get gimped!

Bottomline: Almost all of the DLC characters managed to flip my perceptions, but you never truly know what you're dealing with until the controller is in your hand.

 

[Thinkaman]

Exactly. I learned my lesson long ago never to judge a character until you've tried to play as/against them for at least 10-20 hours. That may seem like a long time to some, but it really is amazing what difference there is between 5 hours of practice and 15 on a brand new character.

I think people underestimated Joker, if you look back at the actual reactions. While there was some Day 1 talk about bair being wild, on the whole there was a pretty big gap between Day 1 Joker expectations and what MKLeo had built 2 months later.

Byleth was also pretty heavily underrated, talked as if the worst character in the game by some. The correction to this was very gradual and it's not like Byleth is amazing, but initial impressions definitely missed the mark.

This isn't tied to DLC of course. Virtually everyone overrated Ganondorf pretty heavily at launch. My two biggest misses personally were G&W and PAC-MAN, who I foolishly dismissed as poor Day 1 just because they played differently than Smash 4 in a way I couldn't immediately grasp.

 

[Arthur97]

ARe people seriously calling him OP already? Come on people.