Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Kokiden]

ESAM ranking Cloud somewhat low in his most recent tier list just reminds me of how much we overvalue combos at times. It made me think back to a video I watched a long while ago, in which the person asserted that Piranha Plant was bad because it "had no combos". I forget which video it was, but my point is that combos simply aren't that important for some characters. Piranha Plant doesn't need an extensive combo game when it can tack on oodles of damage with a Ptooie and Poison Breath. Cloud doesn't need an extensive combo game when up air and nair juggle well, Cross Slash is doing 15+, his sword controls space well in general, he has Blade Beam and dash attack that cover a tall space and have very little consequence to throwing out, and he has Limit on top of all that. While combos are part of what make characters like Pikachu, Squirtle, and Joker great, they don't matter much for some of the other characters because at the end of the day, you've done 60% regardless.

I'm playing around with Cloud now before Sephiroth drops on Friday in my time zone, but he's just not that good.

His moves just feel so weak, even his limits. I did a limit move (the down b and up b ones) on someone at 170% and they still lived.

His hair doesn't seem to hit most of the time either. He seems very neutered, and as much as it pains me to say since he's a character I really like, he's pretty bad and belongs somewhere near the bottom.

At least his speed is good, even if the startup is pretty bad.

Dabuz doing an analysis on the footage we have for Sephiroth

Also my prediction is that is going to be the equivalent of UMVC3 Vergil. I think it's due to the nature of what seems to be a comeback mechanic combined with a very large sword and a similar fighting style.

Oh I missed Dabuz's analysis. Thanks for sharing.

Hmm, I don't think he'll be anything like Vergil (although that would be pretty hype!).

I think he'll end up being kind of meh tbh, since I'm predicting his speed and frame rate to be sub par to make up for the range.

Every DLC, with the exception of Joker, has had poor mobility imo. I'd say they're being way too reserved with balancing to the detriment of fun, but that's just me.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I'm playing around with Cloud now before Sephiroth drops on Friday in my time zone, but he's just not that good.

His moves just feel so weak, even his limits. I did a limit move (the down b and up b ones) on someone at 170% and they still lived.

His hair doesn't seem to hit most of the time either. He seems very neutered, and as much as it pains me to say since he's a character I really like, he's pretty bad and belongs somewhere near the bottom.

I'd say Cloud just takes some getting used to. His neutral is kinda esoteric, but once you understand it better, you might find that he's a very good character. At least, that's the opinion of both myself and pretty much every top player. Even ESAM, who gave Cloud the lowest ranking I've seen in a while, had him in upper mid. I think everyone would disagree with your opinion that Cloud is "somewhere near the bottom". It's kinda funny - a lot of people put him there early on. They were very wrong, Cloud has always been good. Then he got a ton of buffs that have everyone putting him in high tier. Perhaps you're doing what many others did and comparing Cloud too much to his Smash 4 self. He's no longer a top tier monster, but he is a decently fast and slightly heavy swordie, which is still quite good.

If you'd like to continue playing Cloud, here are some tips: His dash attack is one of the stronger ones and covers a large area, should KO around 130 if you're near the edge of the stage. Up Smash and Forward Smash are strong KO options that cover a wide range. His Limit moves do tend to kill at 170 so I'm not sure which you used that didn't kill? I'm also not sure which character you were facing and on which stage. It's possible the issue is you were facing a very heavy character on a very big stage - heavies can indeed live stuff at times with good DI. For dealing damage, Cross Slash does a lot, and can be combo'd into from a fair or bair at low %. Climhazzard out of shield also does a lot, and you're able to mix up whether you go for the first hit of it, or both. You should also employ the use of Cloud's down tilt often - it pops the opponent up at a good angle to then juggle them with up airs or a nair (I agree the nair hitbox is too small, but it is something you get used to over time and is actually a pretty nice move once you get used to it). It's also worth pointing out that Cloud's recovery, while it is exploitable, is better than it first appears. Cloud's got good airspeed, so you often won't even need to use Climhazzard and can merely drift towards the stage by DI-ing inwards, then air dodging to ledge. It's worth pointing out that this will take practice, as air dodging is a death sentence if you don't do it correctly. Additionally, keeping track of when you're about to get Limit is helpful. You might be able to hold down B for a second and get it while you're offstage, at which point you gain access to the vastly superior version of Climhazzard that should send you back to ledge/back onstage.

If this all sounds like a lot, then perhaps Cloud isn't the character for you. And that's perfectly fine. You should play the character(s) you are most comfortable with. But if you decide to stick with Cloud, I hope my advice helps

 

[Kokiden]

I'd say Cloud just takes some getting used to. His neutral is kinda esoteric, but once you understand it better, you might find that he's a very good character. At least, that's the opinion of both myself and pretty much every top player. Even ESAM, who gave Cloud the lowest ranking I've seen in a while, had him in upper mid. I think everyone would disagree with your opinion that Cloud is "somewhere near the bottom". It's kinda funny - a lot of people put him there early on. They were very wrong, Cloud has always been good. Then he got a ton of buffs that have everyone putting him in high tier. Perhaps you're doing what many others did and comparing Cloud too much to his Smash 4 self. He's no longer a top tier monster, but he is a decently fast and slightly heavy swordie, which is still quite good.

If you'd like to continue playing Cloud, here are some tips: His dash attack is one of the stronger ones and covers a large area, should KO around 130 if you're near the edge of the stage. Up Smash and Forward Smash are strong KO options that cover a wide range. His Limit moves do tend to kill at 170 so I'm not sure which you used that didn't kill? I'm also not sure which character you were facing and on which stage. It's possible the issue is you were facing a very heavy character on a very big stage - heavies can indeed live stuff at times with good DI. For dealing damage, Cross Slash does a lot, and can be combo'd into from a fair or bair at low %. Climhazzard out of shield also does a lot, and you're able to mix up whether you go for the first hit of it, or both. You should also employ the use of Cloud's down tilt often - it pops the opponent up at a good angle to then juggle them with up airs or a nair (I agree the nair hitbox is too small, but it is something you get used to over time and is actually a pretty nice move once you get used to it). It's also worth pointing out that Cloud's recovery, while it is exploitable, is better than it first appears. Cloud's got good airspeed, so you often won't even need to use Climhazzard and can merely drift towards the stage by DI-ing inwards, then air dodging to ledge. It's worth pointing out that this will take practice, as air dodging is a death sentence if you don't do it correctly. Additionally, keeping track of when you're about to get Limit is helpful. You might be able to hold down B for a second and get it while you're offstage, at which point you gain access to the vastly superior version of Climhazzard that should send you back to ledge/back onstage.

If this all sounds like a lot, then perhaps Cloud isn't the character for you. And that's perfectly fine. You should play the character(s) you are most comfortable with. But if you decide to stick with Cloud, I hope my advice helps

I only just picked him up to try and play seriously, so he is a vast departure from what I'm used to.

My first impressions is his tilts are so weak, same with his nair, which is a shame.

Your advice has been helpful. I'll keep it in mind.

Who are his bad matchups?

 

[StrangeKitten]

I only just picked him up to try and play seriously, so he is a vast departure from what I'm used to.

My first impressions is his tilts are so weak, same with his nair, which is a shame.

Your advice has been helpful. I'll keep it in mind.

Who are his bad matchups?

Pikachu, Joker, Shulk, Roy, Lucina, Wolf, and Bowser are characters I've seen listed as bad MUs for him. Of course, your mileage may vary, and MU charts are simply the opinions of that particular Cloud player, so take with a grain of salt.

 

[DungeonMaster]

My favorite thing about Samus is that due to her projectiles and very good anti-airs (fair, up air) you can essentially force a sort of 50/50 in neutral where once you get them to start jumping over your stuff you can just meet them there, fair is such a good normal and does so much damage and up air is a low % combo starter into itself ->up b or into fair on some DI

She's the best I love it.

Welcome to team power suit, character is mad strong. The best samus players often discuss how close she is to a traditional shoto. Fire projectiles, make them jump, anti-air them. If they run up and shield you can cancel a charging CS directly into grab and there's enough time from super missile hover to grab them or anti-air them, or shield poke with up-air after the shield is dented. It's great, like really really great.

When you start adding in stuff like pivot slide f-smash and b-air the shoto comes out even stronger.
She can kill off of small interactions and extremely low percents with combos like d-air -> CS -> f-smash/b-air

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As patches and meta currently stands my opinion is this is a top 15 character. Fully optimized CS is an analog combo starter, it's basically dial-a-knockback value pick your combo.

 

[Firox]

I'd say Cloud just takes some getting used to. His neutral is kinda esoteric, but once you understand it better, you might find that he's a very good character. At least, that's the opinion of both myself and pretty much every top player. Even ESAM, who gave Cloud the lowest ranking I've seen in a while, had him in upper mid. I think everyone would disagree with your opinion that Cloud is "somewhere near the bottom". It's kinda funny - a lot of people put him there early on. They were very wrong, Cloud has always been good. Then he got a ton of buffs that have everyone putting him in high tier. Perhaps you're doing what many others did and comparing Cloud too much to his Smash 4 self. He's no longer a top tier monster, but he is a decently fast and slightly heavy swordie, which is still quite good.

If you'd like to continue playing Cloud, here are some tips: His dash attack is one of the stronger ones and covers a large area, should KO around 130 if you're near the edge of the stage. Up Smash and Forward Smash are strong KO options that cover a wide range. His Limit moves do tend to kill at 170 so I'm not sure which you used that didn't kill? I'm also not sure which character you were facing and on which stage. It's possible the issue is you were facing a very heavy character on a very big stage - heavies can indeed live stuff at times with good DI. For dealing damage, Cross Slash does a lot, and can be combo'd into from a fair or bair at low %. Climhazzard out of shield also does a lot, and you're able to mix up whether you go for the first hit of it, or both. You should also employ the use of Cloud's down tilt often - it pops the opponent up at a good angle to then juggle them with up airs or a nair (I agree the nair hitbox is too small, but it is something you get used to over time and is actually a pretty nice move once you get used to it). It's also worth pointing out that Cloud's recovery, while it is exploitable, is better than it first appears. Cloud's got good airspeed, so you often won't even need to use Climhazzard and can merely drift towards the stage by DI-ing inwards, then air dodging to ledge. It's worth pointing out that this will take practice, as air dodging is a death sentence if you don't do it correctly. Additionally, keeping track of when you're about to get Limit is helpful. You might be able to hold down B for a second and get it while you're offstage, at which point you gain access to the vastly superior version of Climhazzard that should send you back to ledge/back onstage.

If this all sounds like a lot, then perhaps Cloud isn't the character for you. And that's perfectly fine. You should play the character(s) you are most comfortable with. But if you decide to stick with Cloud, I hope my advice helps

Your assessment of Cloud is pretty spot on. As a staunch Cloud player, I just want to add a couple things:

-Limit Down B is Finishing Touch. The move has exponential knock back growth but terrible base knockback. In other words, it does virtually nothing to KO opponents until they reach at least 65%. From 65-75%, the move will basically insta-kill any light to light-medium characters. From about 80%+ it will kill anything but the heaviest characters in the game. If people honestly think that it won't absolutely vaporize the opponent at 170%, then they're obviously doing something horribly wrong.

-Limit Up B is Limit Climhazard. While I would be surprised to see it NOT kill at 170%, it is possible if the opponent is insanely heavy and Cloud has zero rage. That said, Climhazard is arguably Cloud's weakest Limit option for killing and it should only really be used as such against opponents too fast to get hit with anything else since it has the best frame data (and invincibility frames) of any of his other Limits.

-As for general kill power and kill options, Limit B and Limit Side B (Cross Slash) are the most effective due to massive hitboxes, decent frame data and consistent knockback. Limit Cross Slash can kill from about 110-130% and Limit Blade Beam is slightly less dangerous, but its projectile status and transcendent nature make it a good surprise option at range, especially near the ledge or if the opponent is recovering offstage.

-In short, Cloud's greatest strength as a character is his combination of fantastic range, great out of shield, above average frame data and decent mobility. The only glaring weaknesses I can think of are his inconsistent and relatively poor recovery. Without Limit, his Climhazard is fairly exploitable and the 15 sec time limit on his Limit status makes it difficult to have Limit Climhazard when you need it. Overall, he's a pretty solid character though.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Your assessment of Cloud is pretty spot on. As a staunch Cloud player, I just want to add a couple things:

-Limit Down B is Finishing Touch. The move has exponential knock back growth but terrible base knockback. In other words, it does virtually nothing to KO opponents until they reach at least 65%. From 65-75%, the move will basically insta-kill any light to light-medium characters. From about 80%+ it will kill anything but the heaviest characters in the game. If people honestly think that it won't absolutely vaporize the opponent at 170%, then they're obviously doing something horribly wrong.

-Limit Up B is Limit Climhazard. While I would be surprised to see it NOT kill at 170%, it is possible if the opponent is insanely heavy and Cloud has zero rage. That said, Climhazard is arguably Cloud's weakest Limit option for killing and it should only really be used as such against opponents too fast to get hit with anything else since it has the best frame data (and invincibility frames) of any of his other Limits.

-As for general kill power and kill options, Limit B and Limit Side B (Cross Slash) are the most effective due to massive hitboxes, decent frame data and consistent knockback. Limit Cross Slash can kill from about 110-130% and Limit Blade Beam is slightly less dangerous, but its projectile status and transcendent nature make it a good surprise option at range, especially near the ledge or if the opponent is recovering offstage.

-In short, Cloud's greatest strength as a character is his combination of fantastic range, great out of shield, above average frame data and decent mobility. The only glaring weaknesses I can think of are his inconsistent and relatively poor recovery. Without Limit, his Climhazard is fairly exploitable and the 15 sec time limit on his Limit status makes it difficult to have Limit Climhazard when you need it. Overall, he's a pretty solid character though.

Yeah, Finishing Touch is amazing once you get used to using it! Especially with rage

 

[Thinkaman]

Zoomed out for a more holistic view, Cloud is almost certainly the single most popular character across all levels of play.

There's lots of clear reasons for this:

• Appealing character design
• Simple, well-rounded moveset
• No central, taxing weakness
• Strength in common low-level moves: f-smash, dash attack, d-tilt
• Flashy yet very easy-to-use gimmick in Limit

But this is no Ganondorf--there are no major structural issues that keep the army of Cloud players from leveling up to Sparg0 tier. Limit can be heavily optimized and used in creative ways. Disjoint never goes out of style. His recovery has just enough mixups. And when the kids grow up from f-smash to u-smash, they discover a simply fantastic move.

It's very hard to argue that Cloud is less than a top 30 character tbqh.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Zoomed out for a more holistic view, Cloud is almost certainly the single most popular character across all levels of play.

There's lots of clear reasons for this:

• Appealing character design
• Simple, well-rounded moveset
• No central, taxing weakness
• Strength in common low-level moves: f-smash, dash attack, d-tilt
• Flashy yet very easy-to-use gimmick in Limit

But this is no Ganondorf--there are no major structural issues that keep the army of Cloud players from leveling up to Sparg0 tier. Limit can be heavily optimized and used in creative ways. Disjoint never goes out of style. His recovery has just enough mixups. And when the kids grow up from f-smash to u-smash, they discover a simply fantastic move.

It's very hard to argue that Cloud is less than a top 30 character tbqh.

IIRC didn't Sakurai say something along the lines of Cloud being the most popular character used in online? Even though that statement was released like a month or two after the game is released I doubt Cloud's usage popularity would have declined with time.

Here's the statement for anyone interested:

According to Sakurai, Cloud is the most played Smash Ultimate character and King K.Rool was never imbalanced.

Ganondorf is the character with the lowest Elite Smash win percentage, and the community feeling that King K.Rool is overpowered isn't supported by win percentage data.

www.invenglobal.com

 

[StrangeKitten]

Zoomed out for a more holistic view, Cloud is almost certainly the single most popular character across all levels of play.

There's lots of clear reasons for this:

• Appealing character design
• Simple, well-rounded moveset
• No central, taxing weakness
• Strength in common low-level moves: f-smash, dash attack, d-tilt
• Flashy yet very easy-to-use gimmick in Limit

But this is no Ganondorf--there are no major structural issues that keep the army of Cloud players from leveling up to Sparg0 tier. Limit can be heavily optimized and used in creative ways. Disjoint never goes out of style. His recovery has just enough mixups. And when the kids grow up from f-smash to u-smash, they discover a simply fantastic move.

It's very hard to argue that Cloud is less than a top 30 character tbqh.

I still find I get good use out of f-smash but indeed, up smash is the better move. However, in the right situations, f-smash is very nice, and kills early, when used at the ledge. Being a three-hit means it lingers long enough to beat spot dodges It can kill around 70 if used right. Combined with Finishing Touch, you've got two risky moves that kill earlier than most anything. A great strength!

Since you mentioned mixing up his recovery, I'd like to note Blade Beam and the first hit of Cross Slash. Blade Beam might hit an opponent to prevent their edgeguard. Cross Slash, though you're not trying to hit the opponent with it usually, will stall you for a small while. They're decent mixups that are worth mentioning!

 

[MrGameguycolor]

People are jumping back on the "Doc is viable" train.

Further proof that a bottom 3 character can still be scary in Ultimate's meta.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I play a lot of doctor mario, he's probably my most-played secondary and I'm one of like 10 elite smash doctor marios and I have lost with him in tournament etc. I'm not as good as this guy but I know stuff.

I don't know how to organize my thoughts on him so I'll just make some bullet points

• Although similar, Doc and Mario aren't the same
• The ways that they are different sometimes benefit Mario and sometimes benefit Doctor Mario. There are options Doc has that Mario doesn't (or if he does have them they're not as strong/good/ranged/whatever) and vice versa
• The above is primarily due to dash speed and range but also due to differences in some specials.
• A lot of people (including a lot of the players in this tournament) try to play against Doc like he's Good Mario, which leads to them taking damage they shouldn't and leads to onlookers assuming that Doc is better than he is
• Example: Mario up-bing you out of shield isn't a big deal, but vs Doc it very much is. On the other hand, you can often dash attack through Doc's shield with characters like Samus and be completely impervious to any kind of punishment because he's so slow and stubby, or space attacks such that Doc can't do anything about it but Mario might be able to
• Tornado is good on hit and a very good edgeguarding tool but is otherwise a fairly punishable, risky attack that can be baited and punished really hard by anyone with mobility
• Pills would be amazing on any other character, but on Doc they're just good
• Most of his non-pill neutral tools are unsafe on hit until like 20%, a problem Mario shares. But unlike Mario, Doc's early combos (though damaging) don't leave him in good advantageous positions, they just kind of do damage and sometimes he's even punishable on hit following them
• Doc's on-hit damage per-hit is absolutely ludicrous. Ftilt does like 13% or something?
• Doc also has some really damn rewarding options out of parry due to his high damage and good kill setups from dtilt at low percentages relative to the rest of the cast (fsmash near the ledge kills below 80% on link lol). His parry punishes might be the best in the game or at least far up there
• Doc is so slow that he must call out some options further in advance than other characters (even Mario)
• Doc kind of sucks but people would have to care enough about him to show it. I think there are very visible, obvious things about him that suck and that you can just see from watching those matches, but there are many things you can't see without analysis. The way Doc has to position, the way the opponent doesn't respect his options, the way Doc gets away with recoveries he shouldn't, and so forth

In conclusion (if you read all this) I think Doc is really bad, but I also think that a good player who uses Smash's global mechanics can use him to great effect thanks to his high damage and fast close-range kill confirm setups. He's just sort of a focus multiplier for players who are very good at calling **** out far in advance.

TL;DR the returns on your skill vs someone else's are much higher with doc than you'd expect from a bad character. he's great if you're better than your opponent, much better than other characters, but only within that scope. If the opponent knows doc and is better than you, good luck.

2020121416403400-C6D726972790F87F6521C61FBA400A1DX

Watch "2020121416403400-C6D726972790F87F6521C61FBA400A1DX" on Streamable.

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Here's a cool doctor mario play i made today, unrelated

 

[The_Bookworm]

Info about tomorrow's Sephiroth presentation.

 

[Firox]

Info about tomorrow's Sephiroth presentation.

It's funny how Sakurai has to explicitly say "NO NEW FIGHTERS" to keep people's expectations in check.

 

[Arthur97]

Then watch this be the time they do show a new one.

 

[Aaron1997]

Crouch Ledge Slip Guide
Dashing into the ledge and buffering crouch by holding diagonally down and forwards lets you ledge slip with no momentum easily.
This method is faster and more flexible than other setups and can be used to improve your edgeguards. pic.twitter.com/AcMJswJZXD

— BFG | J (@JforJonas) December 16, 2020

New tech to improve edgeguarding for some characters

 

[StrangeKitten]

Wellp I just learned that Cloud's Limit moves have intangibility frames. Limit Cross Slash in particular is great with this, since it comes out fast.

 

[Kokiden]

Wellp I just learned that Cloud's Limit moves have intangibility frames. Limit Cross Slash in particular is great with this, since it comes out fast.

What does this mean exactly?

Still playing around with Cloud. Better than before, but still need a lot of improvement.

 

[StrangeKitten]

What does this mean exactly?

Still playing around with Cloud. Better than before, but still need a lot of improvement.

It means that you'll be unable to be hit during parts of his Limit moves

 

[Gleam]

My friends, The One Winged Angel is officially here! You can get him early by completing an a time limited match thing, and so, I'm hyped. I'm honestly really hyped to test out the, forgive me, biggest badass of gaming villains.

Also, you guys finally got Geno, hooray!

 

[StrangeKitten]

Just going by the Sakurai Presents, Sephi looks really solid. Doesn't look super fast but, not too slow either. He's everything I was hoping for, and looks viable for sure!

 

[Idon]

Note: there are no fighter adjustments included in today's update https://t.co/oVQgAblgtg pic.twitter.com/Wd4NGGtSd6

— Nintendo Everything (@NinEverything) December 17, 2020

Well that sucks.

Anyway Sephiroth is so weird. He handles like a heavyweight, dies like a lightweight, has a bunch of sluggish moves but giant range...
Definitely way more technical than I'm used to.

 

[Arthur97]

Also, you guys finally got Geno, hooray!

Yeah, don't think that's what a lot were hoping for.

Anyways, let's hold off on claims of viability for a while, shall we?

 

[NotLiquid]

There's a followup patch coming out the 22nd (10.1), it's mainly there to add the Mii Costumes but there's a decent change we could see balance changes then.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Yeah, it makes sense to save balance changes for when more people should have access to them. But who knows, there have been patches in the past that barely updated anything, balance-wise, and with covid, I could see them holding off.

 

[Aaron1997]

There's a followup patch coming out the 22nd (10.1), it's mainly there to add the Mii Costumes but there's a decent change we could see balance changes then.

It will also add Cloud's updated Final Smash since its actually not in the game yet. Supports Balance changes even more

 

[KirbySquad101]

Sakurai ain't kidding about the character being light lol. For reference, Kirby and Pikachu also weigh 79 units.

Sephiroth stats

Walk speed: 0.9
Run speed: 1.86
Dash speed: 1.92
Air speed: 0.95
Fall speed: 1.84
Fastfall speed: 2.944
Weight: 79

— Meshima (@Meshima_) December 17, 2020

One winged Sephiroth

Damage dealt: x1.3
Walk accel: x1.15
Walk speed: x1.15
Walk friction(?): x1.3
Dash speed: x1.2
Run accel: x1.2
Run speed: x1.25
Air accel mul: x1.15
Air accel add: x1.1
Air speed: x1.2
Air friction: x1.05
Gravity: x1.03
Fall speed: x1.05 https://t.co/5aSAKp05hh

— Meshima (@Meshima_) December 18, 2020

Can't really say anything about Sephiroth since I don't got Ultimate with me at the moment, but I do find Dabuz's approach of using his projectiles to zone people out instead of his disjoints to be a fairly interesting direction for the character.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

My initial, superficial, half-hour-with-a-CPU impression of Sephiroth: his main weakness is sluggish endlag on most of his moves. Even his counter feels slower than the rest because the counterattack always fires at the end.

I can't quite decide if Flare is good or not. On the one hand, it seems like a powerful "you don't want to be here for the next few seconds" zoning tool, but on the other hand, it's got atrocious startup even when uncharged, but on the third hand you can cancel it whenever so it's not exactly a commitment.

 

[zeldasmash]

Gigaflare I think looks really good as a ledgeguarding tool. The radius is enormous and due to it's slow speed, avoiding it is harder then it looks. And once fired, Sephiroth can approach in front of it or go either high or low while still covered by Gigaflare so challenging this is harder then it looks.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

In my opinion Sephiroth seems to just be a better Byleth, with Flare/MegaFlare/GigaFlare being a better Failnaught.

 

[Anomilus]

Sooo chiming in on the Sephirothic talk...

IMO Sephiroth actually feels like a alternate and better... Ridley. With some Cloud Strife mixed in.

• A tall character that fights like a speedy heavy character, but with significantly less weight than one would expect
• Just barely less speed in regular form, then gaining notably better movement and 3 jumps in OWA mode.
• An unconventional zoning projectile that trades some edgegarding power for better on-stage presence.
• High-range normals and a fairly abusive NAir, but requires consistent precision. ( = faster, = more range)
• A suicidal DAir, but with MUCH better spiking potential and waaay less recovery.
• Effective yet quite exploitable Up B... But it's a proper 8-way recovery.
• A rather meh grab game (from what I can tell Sephy has better combo potential but his grab range is not good at all....)

The only other major difference is their Side B with Sephiroth having a second zoning option instead of a command grab. But both moves potentially give their user the advantage when they land. Oh, and their Down B's are non-comparable.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Daaaang 79 is far lighter than I was expecting. Oh well, I've already been pulling pretty good stuff off with my pocket Mewtwo when I play him. I'm sure I can do fine with a character who should have less issues.

 

[Rizen]

Sakurai ain't kidding about the character being light lol. For reference, Kirby and Pikachu also weigh 79 units.

Sephiroth stats

Walk speed: 0.9
Run speed: 1.86
Dash speed: 1.92
Air speed: 0.95
Fall speed: 1.84
Fastfall speed: 2.944
Weight: 79

— Meshima (@Meshima_) December 17, 2020

One winged Sephiroth

Damage dealt: x1.3
Walk accel: x1.15
Walk speed: x1.15
Walk friction(?): x1.3
Dash speed: x1.2
Run accel: x1.2
Run speed: x1.25
Air accel mul: x1.15
Air accel add: x1.1
Air speed: x1.2
Air friction: x1.05
Gravity: x1.03
Fall speed: x1.05 https://t.co/5aSAKp05hh

— Meshima (@Meshima_) December 18, 2020

Can't really say anything about Sephiroth since I don't got Ultimate with me at the moment, but I do find Dabuz's approach of using his projectiles to zone people out instead of his disjoints to be a fairly interesting direction for the character.

is actually a one winged bird with hollow bones. Like .

 

[Wunderwaft]

I played a couple of games with my friends and so far my opinion on Sephiroth is positive. He's a glass canon in the effective sense of the word, but I'd say compared to some of the other glass canons in the roster he has more canon than glass.

• One Winged Angel mode is essentially free buffs that comes just like any other comeback mechanic in this game.
• His flare fireball is slow yes, but it trades speed with on stage presence that forces the opponent to commit to an option, unless the opponent can block the fireball with other projectiles, reflectors, or steve's blocks.
• Shadow Flare is a good pressure tool since it can break combos, force the opponent to shield, or it can do other nonsense where Sephiroth can combo off it into kill confirms (there's already video kill confirms of this move on twitter).
• His recovery is flexible and he can mix up his options thanks to his fair allowing him to stick to the wall, not to mention that in OWA mode he gets another jump which gives him more options to recover.
• The range of his normals and aerials is stupid good, they're slow to compensate but man are his disjoints scary, especially back air.

Oh and here's something fun I found on twitter:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[blackghost]

early sep thoughts:
MK leo will dominate with this character. thats really all i have to say at the moment.

 

[Nobie]

I like how they've tried to balance Sephiroth's One-Winged mode by having it active until you score a KO. It's still scary as heck, but you don't have to worry about him Lucario-rollingv you through three stocks.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I like how they've tried to balance Sephiroth's One-Winged mode by having it active until you score a KO. It's still scary as heck, but you don't have to worry about him Lucario-rollingv you through three stocks.

Sakurai said that, but I've seen the wing linger after scoring a kill a few times.

 

[Arthur97]

Might be a bug. Maybe this is a way of bug testing him.

 

[Krysco]

Sakurai said that, but I've seen the wing linger after scoring a kill a few times.

Does it just not go away after a KO or does it go away and comeback? If it's the latter then it might be Sephiroth reentering 'danger' since the threshold changes based off stock differences. If it's the former then I assume it's either a bug or perhaps there's some window of time where he can't lose it, similar to Mac KO Punch.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Does it just not go away after a KO or does it go away and comeback? If it's the latter then it might be Sephiroth reentering 'danger' since the threshold changes based off stock differences. If it's the former then I assume it's either a bug or perhaps there's some window of time where he can't lose it, similar to Mac KO Punch.

It looks to me like it simply doesn't go away. That is, the usual FX associated with it appearing don't play again.