Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Ziodyne 21]

One of my friends picked up Ridley (he’s good at the game) and he was giving me all kinds of problems. That nair is ridiculous, his edgeguarding and advantage state is insane, and it’s really hard to get in on him. I don’t tilt easily and he was actually starting to tilt me with Ridley. Part of it is probably me not playing any good Ridley’s before but I think he has legit potential and I’m not surprised he’s winning tournaments. Definitely a slept on character

I can imagine Ridley may be a bit of a bad MU for Ness, Ridley is basically a sword character with the range on his buttons and has really good edgeguarding abilities, both thinks that Ness kinda hates. Ness can harass and juggle Ridely hard due to his size and poor disadvatage, but I can see it can be hard for Ness to get in vs a good Ridely

 

[MG_3989]

I think Ridley may be a bit of a bad MU for Ness, Ridley is basically a sword character with his range and has really good edgeguarding, both thinks that Ness kinda hates. Ness can pummel Ridely hard as well because of his poor disadvatage, but I can see it can be hard for Ness to get in vs a good Ridely

It definitely seems like a bad MU, especially because I had no idea what Ridley’s moveset was (all I saw online was command grab and fireballs which was stupidly easy to deal with) and once I get in disadvantage the matchup feels impossible. I did win a couple games with Ness against him but it took me a while to adapt. I switched off to Wolf after a while and it wasn’t as frustrating but I still think Ridley has a lot of potential

 

[Rizen]

This is the best vs game I've seen:

Trela won but it looks fairly even.

 

[MG_3989]

This is the best vs game I've seen:

Trela won but it looks fairly even.

I’ve seen this match. I think I just need to learn the matchup better

 

[Yonder]

Both Trela and Locus are now maining Ridley. Geez are all the previous notable Smash 4 mains jumping to the space dragon? Does Ridley have anything in commom with Ryu besides the very explosive advantage stage and the occasional ability to take stocks at super-early percents.

But yrah I agree on that d-smash...it may have a bit of start up but man the hitboxes on it and range it covers are just nuts

I've posted here previously that Locus told me he switched to Ridley exactly for the advantage stage being so pressing. So i found that interesting.

 

[KamikazePotato]

I'd like to see someone make some real waves with Shulk.

Assuming that Nicko and Kome don't already fit the bill (they consistently do extremely well in tournaments with Shulk), you're going to be waiting for a long time. Shulk is always going to have a low playrate, because:

1. High difficulty curve makes him difficult to pick up as a primary, let alone a secondary.
2. Xenoblade is a relatively niche series, so there aren't a legion of diehard fans lining up to main him like there are for other series.
3. He was weak in Smash 4, so he's essentially starting from fresh in Ultimate - unlike someone like Cloud, who (despite nerfed) still has tons of people already invested in playing him.
4. There's 70 characters in this game. There's a LOT of options to choose from. If a character shows up once in the Top 48 of a major tournament, it probably means that said character is looking pretty good.

Unless Shulk gets buffed to Smash 4 Bayo level of strength, he's always be resigned to the spot of 'one of those random characters who places in the Top 8 of a tournament when one of his mains actually shows up, leaving the on-match commentators to flub repeatedly as they try to remember what he does'. And that's fine. Not every character needs to be a Lucina/Cloud who are easy to play and get spammed everywhere. As it stands, based on the results I've seen when a solid Shulk main actually...like...exists in a tournament, he has the makings of a solid High Tier (Top Tier I'm much more skeptical of).

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

I, for one haven't seen Shulk do much stuff that wasn't preventable with MU knowledge, but it doesn't look like his opponents know what to do yet. I don't know what to do either, but his stuff looks so slow as a spectator that my mind is in doubt about his ability to perform against threats like Lucina or Wolf, let alone the actual top tiers like Peach. I may be wrong though, as I haven't fought someone that knows Shulk super well, so maybe his stuff is actually really oppressive and difficult to counter.

Unrelated, I wanted to say that Pokemon trainer keeps looking better and better the more their players use down B in the match. Switching Pokemon in any stage of a match (neutral, advantage, disadvantage, etc.) seems to really do some work so far.

 

[Rizen]

I think 's one of the weaker characters but Sinji's making him look pretty good. 1st place, Xenosaga XXI (New York, NY) (152 entries).

 

[Kellojolly]

I, for one haven't seen Shulk do much stuff that wasn't preventable with MU knowledge, but it doesn't look like his opponents know what to do yet. I don't know what to do either, but his stuff looks so slow as a spectator that my mind is in doubt about his ability to perform against threats like Lucina or Wolf, let alone the actual top tiers like Peach. I may be wrong though, as I haven't fought someone that knows Shulk super well, so maybe his stuff is actually really oppressive and difficult to counter.

Unrelated, I wanted to say that Pokemon trainer keeps looking better and better the more their players use down B in the match. Switching Pokemon in any stage of a match (neutral, advantage, disadvantage, etc.) seems to really do some work so far.

One thing I know is I had a REALLY hard time against Shulk as Peach in 4 and it's been the same in Ultimate if I meet one.

 

[S_B]

Assuming that Nicko and Kome don't already fit the bill (they consistently do extremely well in tournaments with Shulk), you're going to be waiting for a long time. Shulk is always going to have a low playrate, because:

1. High difficulty curve makes him difficult to pick up as a primary, let alone a secondary.
2. Xenoblade is a relatively niche series, so there aren't a legion of diehard fans lining up to main him like there are for other series.
3. He was weak in Smash 4, so he's essentially starting from fresh in Ultimate - unlike someone like Cloud, who (despite nerfed) still has tons of people already invested in playing him.
4. There's 70 characters in this game. There's a LOT of options to choose from. If a character shows up once in the Top 48 of a major tournament, it probably means that said character is looking pretty good.

Unless Shulk gets buffed to Smash 4 Bayo level of strength, he's always be resigned to the spot of 'one of those random characters who places in the Top 8 of a tournament when one of his mains actually shows up, leaving the on-match commentators to flub repeatedly as they try to remember what he does'. And that's fine. Not every character needs to be a Lucina/Cloud who are easy to play and get spammed everywhere. As it stands, based on the results I've seen when a solid Shulk main actually...like...exists in a tournament, he has the makings of a solid High Tier (Top Tier I'm much more skeptical of).

I once joked during a SSB4 tournament that I would intentionally poke fun at the community's general lack of knowledge about Shulk if I commentated a match with him in it, saying things like, "And this Monado art actually makes Shulk vegan for the duration as well, meaning he takes damage from eating any foods containing animal products until it expires."

"What about Pac-man's pellets?

"Not vegan, and you don't want to know why."

While Shulk seems dramatically improved, we always see this sort of thing at the start of a meta when people don't know how to react to a lesser known character suddenly being better, but time will tell if it lasts.

Remember how everyone thought Bowser was top tier in the first months of 4? Yeah...

 

[KamikazePotato]

I, for one haven't seen Shulk do much stuff that wasn't preventable with MU knowledge, but it doesn't look like his opponents know what to do yet. I don't know what to do either, but his stuff looks so slow as a spectator that my mind is in doubt about his ability to perform against threats like Lucina or Wolf, let alone the actual top tiers like Peach.

Shulk has a good matchup against Peach (relatively speaking, Peach is freaking strong) because Peach struggles against people with disjointed hitboxes that don't have to get as close to her nonsense. Shulk will have problems against Lucina because she is a straight-up top tier who is going to give everyone in the game trouble. Can't comment on Wolf. Overall I don't quite understand this line of logic - every High tier is going to have problems against really strong characters.

Matchup experience will let people fight better against Shulk in the long run but not as much as you would think. Everyone in Ultimate, even the returners (barring like, Lucina), has been changed enough to need more matchup experience against. Shulk isn't unique in that regard.

It's interesting that you interpret Shulk as being slow. All of his bread and butter moves have been significantly sped up in terms of frame data, and if nothing else, Speed Art puts him at literal Sonic speed for a while. He's not as fast as Lucina or Peach, but...no one is.

I think people are looking at this in terms of Smash 4, where Shulk was repeatedly stated to have 'potential' that didn't end up panning out. You don't need to fall back on the Potential angle with him in Smash Ultimate. He's already really good. Speed is oppressive, Buster is extremely good for getting extra credit when you have a stock advantage, Shield can be activated in the middle of people's combos to ruin them, Jump makes you the best edgeguarder in the game (and gives you the best recovery in the game), and Smash is always going to be good for getting cheesy early % kills. The duration on the Arts has been reduced but the tradeoff of the Art effects being supercharged, and the ability to switch to an Art immediately, is easily worth the tradeoff. When I watch Nicko or Kome play Shulk, I don't think "that's a cool character that could be strong if people unlock his potential". I think "that's pretty bonkers, yo." No one is suggesting he's the best character in the game or anything, but I'm confident in, say, the middle of High tier.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I think it's being a little disingenuous to say shulk is only getting by due to lack of MU knowledge. Just like everyone else he benefitted from the system changes. So his aerials have less landing lag and the air dodge changes makes him extremely deadly off stage.

While he doesn't have the fastest moves the disjoint on his moves is massive fair amd nair cover really good angels. Arts combos smash art gives him a kill throw and makes up B deadly. Speed art is ridiculous.

When we put it together it's a very potent character with huge hitboxes a strong off stage game and a great recovery. Granted his stances has some cool down time on them and you have to play around that but that's not to say you'll auto win because of that. It's just tou have that much time until his stance come back.

 

[S_B]

I think it's being a little disingenuous to say shulk is only getting by due to lack of MU knowledge. Just like everyone else he benefitted from the system changes. So his aerials have less landing lag and the air dodge changes makes him extremely deadly off stage.

While he doesn't have the fastest moves the disjoint on his moves is massive fair amd nair cover really good angels. Arts combos smash art gives him a kill throw and makes up B deadly. Speed art is ridiculous.

When we put it together it's a very potent character with huge hitboxes a strong off stage game and a great recovery. Granted his stances has some cool down time on them and you have to play around that but that's not to say you'll auto win because of that. It's just tou have that much time until his stance come back.

I think it's less of "he's only getting by" and more of "only time will tell if he's getting by".

I feel he has potential this time, but I've been burned on false hope often enough to be cautiously optimistic but nothing further.

 

[Frihetsanka]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Nicko believes that Shulk doesn't lose any matchups. If that's true then Shulk is easily top 3 in the game. I'm not quite sure what to think yet, but Shulk looks really strong from what I've seen, much better than in Smash 4.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I think it's less of "he's only getting by" and more of "only time will tell if he's getting by".

I feel he has potential this time, but I've been burned on false hope often enough to be cautiously optimistic but nothing further.

As long as you be realistic about a characters tools and be honest with yourself you won't get caught up in the hype/hope. Basically be objective and think actively.

 

[J0eyboi]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Nicko believes that Shulk doesn't lose any matchups.

That's... optimistic. While Shulk is vastly improved, and a lot of his harder matchups were nerfed, there should still definitely be characters capable of giving him a hard time. Of note, Fox, who was generally considered Shulk's second worst MU after Sheik, is still very strong in this game, if a little easier to edgeguard and ledgetrap. Greninja is another character who seems troublesome. He wasn't too hard a matchup for Shulk in 4, seen as even to slightly disadvantageous for Shulk, but he's received a bunch of improvements that I think could give Shulk a tough time. Diddy could also still be a problem but I know next to nothing about Diddy in this game so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[S_B]

As long as you be realistic about a characters tools and be honest with yourself you won't get caught up in the hype/hope. Basically be objective and think actively.

Yes, but you just described what a huge majority of the community does, even top players. Good luck getting everyone to follow suit (though it'd be nice if they would).

IMO, speculation doesn't mean **** without tournament results. It's one thing to say we feel a character has potential, but without rubber meeting road, none of it means a thing.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Yes, but you just described with a huge majority of the community does, even top players. Good luck getting everyone to follow suit (though it'd be nice if they would).

IMO, speculation doesn't mean **** without tournament results. It's one thing to say we feel a character has potential, but without rubber meeting road, none of it means a thing.

Then it just depends on what kind of results you want. Nicko has been doing very well and winning tournaments in socal. If you only want results a bigger events that's completely different. It's impossible for me to change the community attitude and mindset about things. However, hopefully I can get one or two individuals to have a better mindset.

 

[Rizen]

I looked up Nicko. Is Shulk's sword shorter*, particularly on things like Nair?
*Shulk's sword shorter sells seashells by the sea shore.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Nicko believes that Shulk doesn't lose any matchups. If that's true then Shulk is easily top 3 in the game. I'm not quite sure what to think yet, but Shulk looks really strong from what I've seen, much better than in Smash 4.

He better change his mind, because if Shulk somehow magically becomes the next Brawl Meta Knight Shulk will get nerfed into the ground hard after how badly MK destroyed that game, lol.

 

[Gearkeeper-8a]

not losing matchups mean less when there are like 15 characters that doesn't have losing matchups, or the majority of the matchups are 60-40 or 55-45

 

[J0eyboi]

I looked up Nicko. Is Shulk's sword shorter, particularly on things like Nair?

Just checked the move viewer, and signs point to no. Nair has always been one of Shulk's shorter moves, only being slightly longer than a normal sword rather than twice as long.

He better change his mind, because if Shulk somehow magically becomes the next Brawl Meta Knight Shulk will get nerfed into the ground hard after how badly MK destroyed that game, lol.

No losing matchups is not the same as being Brawl MK, a character who could basically invalidate half the cast with Tornado alone. Don't even start with that ****.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

No losing matchups is not the same as being Brawl MK, a character who could basically invalidate half the cast with Tornado alone. Don't even start with that ****.

I'm going off of what he said. The only characters in Smash history (Unless there was something in SSB64, I was never in that scene) who had no losing MUs are MK and probably Melee Fox. 60-40s are winning. 55-45 is still winning. MK had a boat load of 60-40s including in high and top tier.

That is literally what Nicko is comparing Shulk to, unless he thinks Shulk has loads of 50-50s everywhere. Those are the only example we have of a character with no losing MUs. And there's no way you can tell me that Nintendo wouldn't have nerfed MK back in Brawl if the Wii had allowed for easy patching. If he doesn't think Shulk is Brawl MK or Melee Fox levels of stupid, he's doing to need to clarify that himself.

 

[J0eyboi]

(Unless there was something in SSB64, I was never in that scene)

Pikachu is generally considered to have no losing matchups

That is literally what Nicko is comparing Shulk to

He literally didn't make any comparisons in that tweet. You're comparing Shulk to those two, not him.

 

[Lavani]

I looked up Nicko. Is Shulk's sword shorter*, particularly on things like Nair?
*Shulk's sword shorter sells seashells by the sea shore.

I can't speak for the animation (it looks the same?), but the hitboxes are the same size and the inner/outer ones are in the same positions (the middle one is adjusted slightly, but that doesn't affect total range so much as QoL matching sword thickness more accurately). Sweet/sour spots are also flipped, with the hilttipper being 7.5% but the blade and tipperhilt both being 8.5%.

 

[J0eyboi]

Sweet/sour spots are also flipped, with the hilt being 7.5% but the blade and tipper both being 8.5%.

The tipper has always been the sweetspot on Nair. The blade sweetspotting is new, though.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

I'm going off of what he said. The only characters in Smash history (Unless there was something in SSB64, I was never in that scene) who had no losing MUs are MK and probably Melee Fox. 60-40s are winning. 55-45 is still winning. MK had a boat load of 60-40s including in high and top tier.

That is literally what Nicko is comparing Shulk to, unless he thinks Shulk has loads of 50-50s everywhere. Those are the only example we have of a character with no losing MUs. And there's no way you can tell me that Nintendo wouldn't have nerfed MK back in Brawl if the Wii had allowed for easy patching. If he doesn't think Shulk is Brawl MK or Melee Fox levels of stupid, he's doing to need to clarify that himself.

Well Fox and Meta Knight having no losing match-ups in Melee and Brawl respectively is still debatable, as some people like Leffen think that Fox loses 60-40 to Marth in Melee and I think people thought that Meta Knight might have lost to Marth / Pikachu at some point in Brawl? I could be wrong about the latter point.

Still, I think its understandable to think that Shulk has no losing match-ups at this point in the game since every other character's metagame is so underdeveloped. I think Nicko's opinion will change once the game's metagame gets more developed and he sees the cracks that Shulk has dealing with some characters.

 

[Lavani]

The tipper has always been the sweetspot on Nair. The blade sweetspotting is new, though.

Ah, sorry, I typo'd that; the tipper is sour, the hilt/blade are sweetspot now. This isn't one of my more familiar characters.

This might be a better way to present it:

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

Look, when I say "slow" I mean "relatively slow" compared to a lot of other cast members, and no, I don't mean run speed.... And again, these are just my opinions, but I personally can't fond any footage that shows anything even remotely unavoidable against an opponent with greatt fundamentals. I'm sure Shulk is still quite good due to range and coverage, but I don't see anything so far that makes me think he's top 10 or even top 5 material.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Well Fox and Meta Knight having no losing match-ups in Melee and Brawl respectively is still debatable, as some people like Leffen think that Fox loses 60-40 to Marth in Melee and I think people thought that Meta Knight might have lost to Marth / Pikachu at some point in Brawl? I could be wrong about the latter point.

Still, I think its understandable to think that Shulk has no losing match-ups at this point in the game since every other character's metagame is so underdeveloped. I think Nicko's opinion will change once the game's metagame gets more developed and he sees the cracks that Shulk has dealing with some characters.

I dont think Marth was ever considered to have a winning MU vs metaknight I think at best it was considered even and for brawl that was basically good enough to be considered a decent MU. Marth had some pretty good tools to fight MK. The biggest problem of that MU was the fact that MK's dtilt out ranged marth's and it was pretty much a stock if the MK ever got you off of stage. Pikacchu was basically MK without disjoints so I dont think it was ever in pikachus favor either I believe pika had a chain grab on him that allowed him to rack up damage. Pretty sure only esam considered that MU to be in pikachu's favor.

I think for Shulk to have problems and to be exploited we need to see characters that can easily get into his range and just bully him. I dont see any characters like that at the moment. I will say that it's a bit early to claim shulk to have no bad MU's. I would be intersted in hearing nicko's opinion on all of shulk's MUs though.

Look, when I say "slow" I mean "relatively slow" compared to a lot of other cast members, and no, I don't mean run speed.... And again, these are just my opinions, but I personally can't fond any footage that shows anything even remotely unavoidable against an opponent with greatt fundamentals. I'm sure Shulk is still quite good due to range and coverage, but I don't see anything so far that makes me think he's top 10 or even top 5 material.

What attributes are you looking in a character for you to consider them top 5 or top 10? Just because you cant showcase fortage doesnt mean you cant explain your point. So whats your top ten and why and what is shulk lacking for you not to regard him highly.?

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

I dont think Marth was ever considered to have a winning MU vs metaknight I think at best it was considered even and for brawl that was basically good enough to be considered a decent MU. Marth had some pretty good tools to fight MK. The biggest problem of that MU was the fact that MK's dtilt out ranged marth's and it was pretty much a stock if the MK ever got you off of stage. Pikacchu was basically MK without disjoints so I dont think it was ever in pikachus favor either I believe pika had a chain grab on him that allowed him to rack up damage. Pretty sure only esam considered that MU to be in pikachu's favor.

I think for Shulk to have problems and to be exploited we need to see characters that can easily get into his range and just bully him. I dont see any characters like that at the moment. I will say that it's a bit early to claim shulk to have no bad MU's. I would be intersted in hearing nicko's opinion on all of shulk's MUs though.



What attributes are you looking in a character for you to consider them top 5 or top 10? Just because you cant showcase fortage doesnt mean you cant explain your point. So whats your top ten and why and what is shulk lacking for you not to regard him highly.?

Well for me personally, top 5 needs to be able to cover basically any option from any of the characters below them, and hopefully deal well with some or most of options of the characters that they share with the top tier. Right now I see a character that is going to falter against Peach (until otherwise shown I still see that MU as bad news in this game), Lucina, Fox, Wolf, Lucina, Cloud, and possibly characters such as R.O.B. and Wario with consistent kill confirms and weird neutrals. His recovery also doesn't really impress me without jump being on, and even then it's only pretty good. I still think he'll be quite competitively viable (I think the game is somewhat-balanced, too), but I see no crazy "that's incredibly oppressive and essentially unfair" X-factor or jank that makes him tough to deal with. Once again, *I could be wrong* and he may end up being an absolutely monster, I just *personally* don't see it yet. I'm sorry I'm not great at articulatimg my thoughts, nor do I have a lot to type up, but in my defense I'm very new to actually posting on a forum of any kind, and my only computer is a smartphone. If my opinions seem invalid, feel free to ignore them, amd of something comes up that you think may change my mind, I would genuinely like to see it becausr I like having more and more characters with crazy options and weird janky tech (unless they're BS comeback kill confirms such as suicide gimps). Anyways, cheers, I'll try to speak my piece better.

EDIT: Also I think Ridley kind of dumps on him, but that is probably my weakest opinion.

 

[Tesh]

I hope to god Shulk isn't top tier because the character is one of the most annoying ever. He is constantly changing his stats so combos on him are difficult and in neutral he can just spend so much time stalling with obnoxious mobility in jump/speed or the obnoxious safety of buster/shield modes. And if you are winning, he can just go smash (AKA cheese mode) and try to take your stock at 50.

 

[J0eyboi]

Well for me personally, top 5 needs to be able to cover basically any option from any of the characters below them, and hopefully deal well with some or most of options of the characters that they share with the top tier.

So then no one is top 5?

Right now I see a character that is going to falter against Peach

Really? You see a slow, light character who struggles against swords as a bad matchup for the biggest sword?

Wolf

Wolf gets so drastically outranged and outsped that his standard footsies-oriented gameplan doesn't even work. He's also dead if he's ever knocked offstage, because Shulk has amazing edgeguarding and Wolf has a less amazing recovery.

Cloud

Cloud was close to even in Smash 4. Shulk has only gotten stronger and Cloud has only gotten weaker since then.

and possibly characters such as R.O.B. and Wario with consistent kill confirms and weird neutrals.

Why? Neither of those characters were problematic for Shulk in Smash 4, and while both are improved, so is Shulk. I see no reason why either of those characters would give Shulk any trouble, especially not Wario.

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

So then no one is top 5?



Really? You see a slow, light character who struggles against swords as a bad matchup for the biggest sword?



Wolf gets so drastically outranged and outsped that his standard footsies-oriented gameplan doesn't even work. He's also dead if he's ever knocked offstage, because Shulk has amazing edgeguarding and Wolf has a less amazing recovery.



Cloud was close to even in Smash 4. Shulk has only gotten stronger and Cloud has only gotten weaker since then.



Why? Neither of those characters were problematic for Shulk in Smash 4, and while both are improved, so is Shulk. I see no reason why either of those characters would give Shulk any trouble, especially not Wario.

You didn't even consider anything I said, and used a bunch of examples from the previous game... I'm gonna walk away from this one. Have a nice thread, everyone.

 

[J0eyboi]

You didn't even consider anything I said, and used a bunch of examples from the previous game... I'm gonna walk away from this one. Have a nice thread, everyone.

It's a bit hard to consider anything you say when you don't say anything. All you said of any substance whatsoever is that you think he'll struggle against consistent kill confirms and weird neutral, which A) has not historically been the case and B) you gave no justification for. If you have some reason why you think Shulk will struggle against all those characters, by all means, feel free to share it, but I can't read your mind and see all of these magical justifications you haven't given.

 

[Y2Kay]

All the supposed top tiers of this game all have have notable flaws that their advantages can't overrule.

Right now, what we probably should be asking ourselves is this: what kind of strengths do we think are most valuable, and what kind of weaknesses are the least relevant? If we narrow that down we could get a clue to who really is the best in the game.

 

[Ajani]

All the supposed top tiers of this game all have have notable flaws that their advantages can't over rule their weaknesses.

Right now, what we probably should be talking about is what kind of strengths do we think are most valuable, and what kind of weaknesses are the least relevant? If we narrow that down we could get a clue to who really is the best in the game.

To go into this discussion, lets talk about most efficient kill confirms. Was anyone able to look into the data more? seems like he has an amazing kill option with UTilt at F3.

 

[Omnos]

I think 's best kill confirm is falling n-air into u-smash.

 

[Rhus]

I think 's best kill confirm is falling n-air into u-smash.

Yeah, it's definitely our most efficient kill confirm. Percents are a little picky because it can force a tech chase.

Dair Usmash should be more reliable but a) it's more dangerous to miss and b) Fox's Dair KB is super unreliable in ultimate.

We have a few others, sour front of Utilt to Usmash works, strong Utilt Uair, illusion Uair, and falling Fair to Usmash/Dsmash (tech chase situation) all work.

 

[NotLiquid]

Oki's Inkling won HSTSP1 last night. Oki plays a bit differently from other Inklings I've seen, namely in special usage. Most notable is how much mileage he gets out of Splattershot; I've heard people describe this move as a taunt, but Oki uses it liberally in all game states and the extra damage from keeping the opponent inked really adds up. But aside from the silliness of 30% smashes, his usage of it against Yurica's Cloud reminded me heavily of Scalding FLUDD back in 4; endlag on this move is really low and the knockback is negligible, allowing it to set up grabs and jabs on both hit and shield, and if you're setting it up on hit you've got a fully inked opponent in your hands.

He also rarely uses Splat Bombs in neutral, with the main application of interest being landing with B-reverse Splat Bombs to both mix up landings and drop the bomb on top of himself as approach deterrent. Though I'm sure it's matchup dependent, in general I like his approach to them more, as while I understand a whiffed Splat Bomb is still denying space...it also comes with a hefty time and ink cost, and most of the time I see it used as a neutral tool it's almost never hitting. Hell, a non-held Splattershot is over and done with around the same time a min charge Splat Bomb leaves Inkling's hand. I see more merit in being able to apply/maintain ink with the low commitment option from midrange without breaking gameflow.

You're absolutely correct, it's something I've suspected for a while and it's a belief that was only strengthened after Valhalla and watching cyve play - players heavily underestimate the value of the Splattershot. For the better weeks it's been heavily neglected in favor for the Splat Bomb and to some degree I can't blame them; it's one of the best anti-zoning projectiles in the game with tremendous ledgetrapping/edgeguarding potential, and the reward off of hitting one is tremendous. But Splattershot as a special needs to be treated the same way one would a Melee Fox blaster because it has tremendous mid-range pressure ability in neutral. It doesn't do a lot of damage but the pushback and inking means it all becomes cumulative. The little amount of lag it has, on top of being able to angle it, means there's almost never any situation where you don't want to throw it out in midrange to pressure opponents, and given Inkling's average-at-best range and trouble in dealing with characters like swordies, Splattershot is going to be instrumental to her game plan.