Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[PK Gaming]

Both Armada and Leffen seem to think he's the worst designed character in the game (dethroning Little Mac), and I am inclined to agree. A character based around RNG is not really a good fit for a competitive fighting game, although it is a good fit for a casual party game. Shame there's no way to get two versions of Hero, one suited for competitive play and the one we got.

He's going to be so hated if he doesn't end up banned. Potentially worse than Smash 4 Sonic, Bayonetta, and Cloud.

The fact that people can have such an extreme position this early in the Hero's lifespan is just... ridiculous, honestly.

I'm starting to get tired of the fearmongering the smash community likes to indulge in after a DLC character is released. That's not to say the hero won't be problematic, but "worst designed character in the game" is a childish absolute. The level of craft put into the character outshines a decent chunk of the roster imo.

 

[Kaiser19]

Some early Hero impressions:

Cons:
-Laggy moves. One example, up tilt looks like it could be a good combo starter as it knocks the opponent into a good spot above you. But it has a lot of end lag, so follow ups are tough.
-OOS options. Up smash thrusts the sword straight up, and appears to not hit opponents on the ground whatsoever. Up B out of shield comes out pretty quick and pops the opponent into the air, but you're in free fall after using it. It's not a hard punish, and you don't really get follow ups off of it.

Pro:
-So much potential for early kills, holy crap. Crits on smash attacks, fully charged neutral b, fully charged side b, several of the down b options.

Seems like he might lose pretty hard to quick chars with good frame data. But he's got some serious X factor.

 

[Gearkeeper-8a]

Both Armada and Leffen seem to think he's the worst designed character in the game (dethroning Little Mac), and I am inclined to agree. A character based around RNG is not really a good fit for a competitive fighting game, although it is a good fit for a casual party game. Shame there's no way to get two versions of Hero, one suited for competitive play and the one we got.

He's going to be so hated if he doesn't end up banned. Potentially worse than Smash 4 Sonic, Bayonetta, and Cloud.

Figthing games arent new to RNG mechanics, Faust from guilty gear exist, and what is uncompetitive about hero mechanics?? every single move he does is telegraphed because both players can see the menu options he isn't randomly killing if you put attention, and the crítical hit from smashes needs to hit you in the first place.

 

[Bobert]

Why are there so many people in this community that are so trigger happy on the ban hammer? It's only been a couple of hours and we have people talking about banning him over RNG. The rng works more against him than it does in his favor. You want magic burst for a strong ledge trap or 2 frame? Lmao better roll the dice and hope you dont get terrible set of specials or get hit first.

 

[ThreeT]

Even if he ends up broken, Sakurai will definitely end up nerfing in a future patch similar to Bayonetta. The only things that annoy me about the character are Crit Smashes, Thwack, and Magical Burst but the rest are very capable of dealing with. Like I said though, I feel like these will all get nerfed somewhat in a future patch.

 

[NairWizard]

Solide says:

1) Hero's RNG effects barely matter. Let's put it this way. If he didn't have RNG and just had a default moveset of Magic Burst, Oomph, Thwack, and Snooze, he would be brokenly strong. You should be thankful that Hero's down-special is gated by RNG. It's a good design and not at all unfair.

2) The best way to use down-b is to just examine the first option and make the go/no-go decision on using it. About half the time, it's good. One special exception is when the opponent is recovering; you have some extra time to choose, and if you've got Magic Burst somewhere, you can snipe several recoveries.

3) The lag is crazy bad on some moves, and it's both startup AND endlag. Sometimes I can't get b-air out of a full hop situation, but other times, after using up-tilt, I can't shield until my opponent has hit me. The lag is bad in neutral, but most importantly for a sword character, it makes it hard to juggle. up-tilt is too slow if I miss, and up-air and up-smash have mediocre hitboxes. You've got to rely on your down-b for advantage, which isn't the worst thing in the world, but you won't always get Magic Burst/Snooze so sometimes you just peter out.

4) Neutral moves are jab, d-tilt, f-tilt, f-air, n-air, grab, neutral-b, down-b. Most of these are just workable at best. Sizzle is a top-tier move with lots and lots and lots of applications. Slow-moving variant can be used for cover, mid for zoning, and fully charged for shield breaks/KOs/edgeguarding/trapping.

5) His disadvantage is quite terrible overall (albeit situationally amazing), and his recovery is just below average. You can be smart with it, but not having a hitbox on the way up is going to mean counterplay.

6) My first impression is "mid tier, with an inclination toward high tier if optimized." Struggles against anyone able to stay up in his face or with better hitboxes and decent speed.

Great, fun character though. Beautifully made, really.

 

[PK Gaming]

Also worth considering:

Hero stats
Walk speed: 0.98
Dash speed: 1.88
Run speed: 1.84
Air speed: 1.01
Fall speed: 1.57
Fastfall speed: 2.512
Weight: 101
Ground friction: 0.11
Air friction: 0.008
Gravity: 0094

— Meshima (@Meshima_) July 31, 2019

Air speed + Air accel are horrendous

 

[KirbySquad101]

Between both Hero and Joker, I feel like a lot more care and consideration was given into balancing both characters' gimmicks compared to SSB4's "gimmick characters", particularly Cloud, Little Mac, and Bayonetta.

The dude has a lot of options and has the potential to KO very early (albeit somewhat rare), but a lot of that is offset by being forced to work with what you have at the moment, while also having to micromanage between that and fending off the opponent with his pretty terrible frame data (particularly his aerials, yeesh, he makes Link feel like Lucina at times lul).

Some other things I figured out:

- As expected, Hero seems to have pretty average to above average weight, hovering around 's level of survivability. Nothing fantastic, but nothing to complain about either.
- Kaswoosh seems to have a lot of potential with edgeguarding opponents that are trying to recover from below; not only that, but Snooze, Magic Burst, and his Slash MP attacks all seems like really good options to cover the ledge with thanks to their generous hitbox sizes.
- Acceleratle doesn't seem quite as good as Shulk's Speed Monado given that Hero doesn't really have the oppressive range Shulk does. It could be that I need more time to work with it, but it does seem very solid as a potential mix-up recovery option.
- Hero seems to have an above average fall speed, a low air acceleration and a below average jump; his aerial attributes feel comparable to , minus the super duper fastfall speed.

I'm not really sure how to feel about him. I feel like he's probably a mid-tier but could possibly develop into high-tier depending on how far people are willing to push his metagame.

I do wish people would take more time to invest in him, because with the way the character was crafted and handled, you'd think that Sakurai cared more about him than Kirby lol

 

[Rizen]

I went to a smashfest and got several games in both playing as and against Hero. Basically he's a bad character with STUPIDLY OP spells that are based on RNG. Playing him feels like carrying lead weights. His attacks are slow and his mobility's poor without the agility spell. Uair is possibly the worst in the game: he just kicks above him with no range at all. Usmash is only good for hitting directly above him. DA is like Link's and the jump can jump over low attacks like Dtilts. In general he has way too much lag to ever be viable.

His crit rate is fairly high and although slow crit smashes are stupidly strong. I had my shield broken as hero and another Hero's charged crit Fsmash killed me at 0%. Sleep spell anyone?

But then we look at his spells. There's a lot of talk about downB but what you really want to look at is fire. It charges fast, has a huge blast area and kills stupidly early. It's like Samus' charged shot on steroids. This move is so freaking good.
Lightning has good range and oddly creates an AoE around him when charged despite being sideB. Not being able to store charges limits it's uses. You'll probably see players go for a half charge as it has the best forward distance.
UpB has no hitbox above it but goes far, has good drift and is easy to stall to avoid 2 frames. Good recovery but vulnerable to a read.

And DownB, downB... yep. The move has 17 possible effects. Hocas Pokas is a complete gimmick that gives item effects like flower and giant from what I saw. Several attacks are quite strong but Hero always gives away his plan when using it so smart opponents can simply stand clear and be ready to shield. This however lets hero buff himself while being threatening if he gets lucky. The attack that uses all his magic has a final smash sized area; it guarantees you'll hit and kill opponents going for the ledge if you get lucky. Kamikaze seem more added as a trap to keep players from spamming downB. The instant kill spell has a better chance of killing than I'd like and is big. Bounce lets him run around and attack with a reflector for about 10 seconds; this seems OP but with Hero's poor mobility it's fairly easy to avoid him. I had a Hero camp the Kalos platforms trying to get bounce vs my YL. Kalos is a good stage to ban because the platform are hard to reach. There are a few other gimmicky spells best avoided.

MP management keeps him from recklessly spamming but he gets it back fast enough that he doesn't have to play too conservatively.

So there you have it, RNG the character. He's bad but a good player can get lucky and literally kill at 0%.

BAN THIS CHARACTER FOR DOUBLES!!! He'll be absurdly good in dubz, mark my words.

 

[Nate1080]

Hero is the most RNG character in Smash history, yet ironically he seems to have a high skill ceiling. He’s slow, yet powerful. Calling him bad seems to be a bit of a stretch when you consider the whole package. For one thing, unlike most swords in this game, he’s not really an “in your face” kind of character, he doesn’t have the frame data for that.


Combined with slow moves, his whole MP and random spell gimmick punishes the user for reckless and spammy play. His RNG mechanic ironically made him probably one of the most well designed characters in this game. Its so absurd, it’s genius kind of thing.

The Hero’s design greatly rewards patient and calculating players. Players that fully understand footsies, spacing, ledge-trapping and edge guarding in Smash. They’re gonna get the most milage out of his moveset, despite iffy frame data.

 

[williamsga555]

Want to make mention that, while most of his neutral moves are firmly in "okay" territory, his fair is definitely solid. Slow startup, but covers a deceptively huge range (particularly underneath him, this thing can hit below ledge from on stage!) and sends at a favorable angle for stage control. It feels like what a toned-down version of Ike's nair that trades all-around utility for further forward-facing space control would look like.

Up smash also seems to be Smash 4 WFT up smash. It's obscenely strong when sweetspotted but has a truly miserable hitbox. If you snooze someone on a platform though, you can do some very mean things to them.

 

[Myollnir]

My experience with Hero's DownB :

TL;DR : Not as bad as I originally thought, but WILL still change games depending on what you get. The RNG spells I feel won't affect a game much, which is good. But it's still kinda bad.

General Mechanics :

The menu comes out Frame1, but you can't start a move until Frame20 (you can select it but it won't come out until F20).

If you cancel a menu, you have to wait 40 frames for it to disappear and allow you to get another one.

On the ground, you can cancel it with roll, dodge, and shield. You can also press shield for less than 3 frames and be able to move freely (similar to Lucario)

You can reverse the spell you want to use by holding the direction before selecting your spell.

You can't use the menu during hitstun. Any hit will interrupt the menu.

You stop gaining 1MP/sec during the thinking stance.

The menu disappears after 8 seconds if you didn't chose anything.

I'll now talk about the moves which can be used via command selection.

The Good ones :

Magic Burst : Probably the best spell ever. The hitbox is INSANE, can 2-frame or edgeguard for free, might be good at ledgetrapping as well. Uses all of your MP can scales with the cost, can kill RIDICULOUSLY early and deal up to 60%. The spell you almost always wanna see.

Acceleratle : Gives the Hero an insane mobility, which he can use quite well with large hitboxes. Gives him a few confirms from grab, mostly d-throw f-air which will kill at the edge at around ~100%. Lasts 10 seconds. Can be hard to manoeuver, especially offstage, since UpB is strictly vertical. You take more KB during the spell according to the in game tips, which can be good or bad.

Flame Slash : As with most spells, it's frame6 after selecting the move, which is standard for releasing a projectile, but for a slash this big, it's really quick. The range is (again) insane, it can 2-frame, it can cover every option during a ledgetrap (with different timings), deals close to 30%, will kill at 65% at the edge. Can be used to shut down any approach when someone wants to contest your command selection.

Kacrackle Slash : A worse version of the Flame Slash. But at low %, freezing can come in handy (it lasts very long), and if you 2-frame with it, they can bounce on the stage with a pseudo stage spike and end up in a terrible spot. Still very good.

Heal : Highly overrated, can only be used 2 times per stock (22% / stock isn't that much in Ult), not very fast so except between stocks, it will be very rare to use it. That's still a heal, and we take those. Overall decent move.

Bounce : Can auto-win you a match-up. Either broken or useless. Since it doesn't really take any slot, it's really good to have in your toolbox.

Oomph : Very good buff. Will make you hit harder and have more knockbac. The game also says (defense down), so it's probably a double-edged sword (but a good one). Seems to last a bit more than 10 seconds, like 12.

Psyche Up : Only use this to KO, the damage increase is very low.

Kaboom : Amazing projectile, will have a huge radius upon exploding, deals a lot of damage, kills super early, big range. Only drawback is the very high mana cost. Can 2-frame if you use it from center stage. Bang is its "pre-evolution".

Sizzle : Similar to Kaboom, except maybe a bit worse? Sizz is it's "pre-evolution".

Snooze : Don't think this needs explaining. Far from being broken, but it's good.

Zoom : Pretty good mix-up... If you're lucky enough to have it while recovering... Doesn't put you into freefall, so there's that.

The bad ones :

Kaclang : Has a hitbox on the way down. That's it. Easy to punish if you know the timing (30 frame window). Except relying on MU inexperience, I only see this being used during the last seconds of a time out.

Metal Slash : Deals 1% with low knockback and bad frame data. Never use this.

Hatchet Man : One shots the shield and kills at 40%. But really slow, and considering it comes from downB, I don't really see how it'll be used outside of a shieldbreak punish?

Kamikazee : Very slow, not even that powerful, can apparently be teched? You lose a stock for free, keep it for FFA's.

The random ones :

Whack : A projectile that can one shot. Needs to know the numbers, but this seems incredibly out of place. Low cost, too.

Twhack : The "melee" version of Whack, but with still a big hitbox. Seems to work very well at high %. Again, I hope the numbers are very low at low %. It seems pseudo reliable at 100%, I guess it could be used for shield art Shulk, but considering the high cost (30 MP), there are better moves. Can 2-frame.

Hocus Pocus : Oh, god. This move is bonkers. Gives you some crazy status buff or debuff, or just uses a move randomly. Thankfully, it's already pretty rare for it to show up, and it seems to have at least as many negative effects than there are for positive effects, which means we're unlikely to see it being used in competition. But it could be used when you're at really high % and your opponent just respawned. If it's very rare AND the Hero is balanced (which I think he'll be), I can see it being as hype as a G&W 9. Still don't like the concept.

I think the Hero's DownB is really interesting and will reward quick thinking and experience with the character. I'd not treat his downB as 4 chances to have a good move, but I'd rather look at it as a whole. For example, if you have some good buff spells but you also have a slash attack/projectile, you can bait your ennemy to come and then pick the offensive attack at the last minute to stuff their approach.

In the neutral, I feel like it's pretty hard to use, due to both the menu being slow and because it's hard to analyze all spells and quickly pick one. But for instance, after sending the opponent offstage, you can position correctly and use DownB and choose between Magic Burst, Flame Slash, Kacracke Slash and Twhack (in that order) to 2-frame. Or take any buff if there's none. Or just cancel the menu if nothing's interesting.

This is a very high skillcap move, so we'll have to wait for a few months for it to be fully mastered. It is really cool IMO. I just hope the Hero is average and not a good character, otherwise he'll receive a lot of hate lol

 

[Allkings]

from the guide in training mode hero has 18/21 moves (3 are upgraded form of other) sizz deal 16.2% and sizzle deal 30% and they very fast soyeah good moves

edit: in Acceleratle you can still use the menu so yeah you can do some crazy stuff

 

[Gérard Majax]

ness is just better by a lot. better pk thunder, better pk fire, better grab, better ledge trap (yo-yo). better spike. better combo game. better bair. better fair. better nair.
there's a reason ness sees play and lucas doesn't.
sometimes the only reason people play a character is love for that character or comfort. but objectively comparing tool vs. tool there are times when a character does invalidate another. doesn't just happen in smash it happens in other fighting games, it happens in card games, and it happens a lot in MOBAs.

I feel like you are comparing apples and oranges here, as their moveset and gameplan are just nothing alike. I'm aware that sometimes characters get invalidated (heck LoL meta is pretty much "who invalidates who : the game", or even marth lucina), but the comparison works when one of the characters does what the other wants to do, but better. Fair, nair, pk fire and pk thunder serve very different purposes for both characters, because ness just wants to win neutral, deal 50 bazillion damage and randomly kill (grossly simplified), while lucas plays a more patient mid range game and aims to get you offstage to abuse his 2 spikes/freeze/thunder/2 frame dsmash.

The reason people play Ness more than Lucas imo is that Ness is a high tier (with a relatively low skill floor?), while Lucas is at best mid with medium/high skill floor.



Also speaking of new characters, I'm interested to see what this "mewtwo" could do in the current metagame.

 

[VodkaHaze]

Also worth considering:

Hero stats
Walk speed: 0.98
Dash speed: 1.88
Run speed: 1.84
Air speed: 1.01
Fall speed: 1.57
Fastfall speed: 2.512
Weight: 101
Ground friction: 0.11
Air friction: 0.008
Gravity: 0094

— Meshima (@Meshima_) July 31, 2019

Air speed + Air accel are horrendous

Is that base, additional or max air acceleration? Regardless, it's really bad, as the former makes him the fourth worst air accel in the game, and the other two have him as the worst by a mile. He has joint 53rd best air speed (tied with Squirtle).

 

[Lacrimosa]

Good thing he's slow af in the air. Which means he can't really do something in the air since his aerials are slow as well. That also gives him a rather bad OoS game. That are like two death sentences for a character but his saving grace are the specials.
I'm excited to see how things will turn out but players like Leo or Tweek don't really think that high of him right now.

 

[NotLiquid]

A character with the level of jank that Hero has shouldn't be bestowed well-rounded stats and frame data. The amount of damage Hero can dispense with a few meaty hits puts superheavies to shame, and considering even most of those have some decent combo strings it's kind of weird to think that we're saddled with a mid-weight who only needs to set up a condition to win neutral four or so times without any extensive followups to have you at kill percents.

Side B gives him Belmont range to play with, neutral B is basically the cornerstone of his entire game plan - it does combo into some circumstantial hits and has insane output (a charged projectile that can frametrap, kill, shield pressure and zone even better than Samus' charge shot depending on application is kind of nuts to think about if it were any other character). The character's neutral is rather mediocre all things considered - at least as far as a good chunk of his standard buttons are concerned - but I suspect his ability to push ledge advantage is going to be scary. And under no circumstances should the RNG of his command menu be underestimated.

If Hero mains manage to find/master some jab lock set ups, it's game over.

He sticks true to the mage archetype by not being about DPS in the slightest, he's a dice roll turned into a character and easily the most polarizing character of this series yet. I hesitate to call him anything beyond average at present, but there's no doubt in my mind that he's one of the most fun characters they've ever designed and the prospect of optimizing this character to be "good" is something I'd really want to witness out of morbid curiosity.

 

[Adol Christin]

Some little videos found. It looks like you can insta kill with Thwack and Kathwack even if your opponent has 0%.
Well the odds are really really slim, but it's still possible.

https://twitter.com/koyaman_0125/status/1156452917974458368

https://twitter.com/koyaman_0125/status/1156452341689638918

 

[Emblem Lord]

His down b can be crazy but his neutral game with his fizzle and zap moves should not be slept on.

He is a neutral beast with those moves as well as a land trap monster.

His ftilt has trample property as well.

The disadvantage is BAD, which means he probably cannot go past high tier even if we find something crazy imo.

He will probably do fine vs zoners and footsie style gameplay.

I feel he will lose hard to rushdown.

 

[Myollnir]

I think he has a pretty good neutral, he can force approaches (good projectile game, passive shield, passive MP regen, bounce, can buff himself) and is good at shutting them down (Frizz, Jab, Tilts, Snooze, Bang/Kaboom, Flame/Kacrackle slash, Sizz/Sizzle, T/Whack can be really scary as well)

But he seems really easily abused when you land a hit on him, and his recovery is pretty exploitable. And since he needs to land moves to have a reliable way to have MP regen, I feel like if you get the momentum while he's low on mana, it's over for him.

His edgeguarding/ledgetrapping game can be deadly but it's RNG dependent. He's not very good at juggling, though.

 

[Tri Knight]

Yeah his disadvantage is probably the worst thing about him but it's like REAL bad from what I've gather so far. He can definitely get blown up if he lets you in.

 

[Lacrimosa]

I wonder how he'll do versus reflector characters (like mine ).
Looks like a lot of his stuff relies on projectiles and given his poor aerial speed and acceleration he doesn't seem to be able to bait you into it that easily as other characters.
We'll see. I haven't fought one yet (because I didn't play yet) but I feel any reflector character will give him a hard time, especially Fox with his overall speed advantage.

 

[Nate1080]

He can just side B reflector characters. Iirc from a Hero mirror I played online, side B isn’t a projectile. At least half charged side B isn’t.

 

[$.A.F.]

Personally from my own experience, the Hero looks like low high or the top of mid. I think his specials are undeniably the best in the game, but he’s got a lot of flaws. Exploitable recovery, bad OoS, slow moves, slow movement, bad disadvantage, and ridiculously slow aerials

 

[PURGE THEM LIKE THE]

He can just side B reflector characters. Iirc from a Hero mirror I played online, side B isn’t a projectile. At least half charged side B isn’t.

No variation of his side b is a projectile, and none can be bucketed by mr gw. I didn't test ness/lucas, but I assume they can't absorb it either.

Side b and neutral b are insane moves.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Been messing around more.

So basically past 100% he has a plethora of kill confirms with diff buffs and depending on stage positioning.

Psyche Up will let ftilt kill at the ledge around 115%. That goes down to around 85% at the ledge if it's stacked with oomph. If he has Oomph and Psyche Up his uthrow will kill starting around 110ish%.

Acceleratle is Speed and Jump art combined. Gives him dthrow to full jump fair kill confirms starting at 100% near the ledge. Combine that with oomph and the number goes lower.

If Hero has full charged neutral B with at least 50mp and he is sitting on Acceleratle, Psyche Up or Oomph, then that is basically a 8/2 situation in his favor if you do not have a reflector of some kind or strong escape from disadvantage. You will most likely die if you are past 80%.

He has VERY strong checkmate situations from landings.

And the disadvantage might not even be as bad as I thought. His up b hits below him and he can move left or right. He can also b reverse neutral b and then cancel it with an airdodge or jump.

His edgeguarding is actually nasty as hell.

He....seems alot better then I thought at first.

He is just super duper ultra mega special......

weird as ****.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I like how most people's impressions seem to be either "This character is OP plz nerf", "Randomness is stupid plz ban", or "This character is garbage tier".

Command Selection takes more attention away from the screen then I'd originally thought, so the character has quite the learning curve. From my experience this character gets by through careful placement of normal attacks, spamming Zapple, and using Command Selection when the opponent is in disadvantage. Most of the time it seems like Psych Up, Oomph, Acceleratle, Bounce, Heal, Snooze, and Kaboom are pretty much the only generally useful Command Selection spells. Mega Man is pretty powerless against Bounce, but most other zoning characters can get by with just their normals for a bit. Kaclang is probably the most useless attack in the entire game (I suppose it could win you a game if there are 5 seconds on the clock, but what are the chances of that?).

EDIT: My experience level is pretty low, so a lot of what I say is likely to be highly inaccurate at higher levels of play.

 

[Nobie]

Hero feels like playing a TCG in real time. You gotta draw your cards and be able to quickly decide what to do with them at a glance. Yeah, it's random, but there's something potentially beautiful about someone building a strategy piece by piece based on the cards they're given.

Basically, if you're good at that Yu-Gi-Oh and you can think fast, then Hero might be for you.

Also, one weakness Hero has is that he just doesn't have a traditional swordie f-tilt. His range is good but not great, especially for a sword character with that frame data.

Re: Mewtwo buffs, that Side B change is so good. I hated how it felt in Ultimate. People think its tail will still be an issue but I think even a small adjustment is a big deal.

 

[Minordeth]

From playing a few hours on Discord, so far, Hero may struggle with spacies. His Fair is massive, and it seems like can kind of wall out characters like Mario decently.

But, he has no great answers to Falco. Fox seems slightly more manageable. And Wolf is slightly more so.

Most of this has to do with menu and charging animations being interrupted by laser and blaster. It’s easier to punish Wolf for Blaster than it is to punish for Falco for Laser, due to differences in end lag. Wolf’s disjoint doesn’t matter as much in the MU because Hero outranges him.

Hero doesn’t have the OoS game to beat out an aggro Falco/Fox, other than Up-B, which isn’t particularly scary.

He can get some spells out against Fox, tho. He just has to pray a favorable modifier is up for selection quickly.

If anything, rather than Robin, Hero seems to play something like Samus mixed with a swordie. And his ledge game is bonkers.

 

[Lacrimosa]

Is there framedata out, yet?
I can't play for the next few days but I want to look up his specials, so I know if I'm able to punish something.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Here is all the Hocus Pocus effects found (data taken from SmashWiki). + is positive, - is negative, 0 is neutral.

+ One of Hero's commands is granted for only 4 MP instead of the value it usually consumes.
+ Makes him giant.
+ Makes him invincible.
- Slows down his own movement (like a timer backfiring on him).
- MP is reduced to 1.
- Inflicts poison damage to himself.
- Inflicts sleep on himself.
- Makes him small.
- Inflicts the flower effect on himself.
0 Turns him invisible.

Negative effects occur more often than positive, making it a gamble.

People think its tail will still be an issue but I think even a small adjustment is a big deal.

Trust me when I say this: the tail hurtbox reduction + the z-axis = deceptive disjoint.

B-air: pic.twitter.com/UANZIS7Too

— Rotaryon | Anbil (@AnbilM2) July 31, 2019

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here is all the Hocus Pocus effects found (data taken from SmashWiki). + is positive, - is negative, 0 is neutral.

+ One of Hero's commands is granted for only 4 MP instead of the value it usually consumes.
+ Makes him giant.
+ Makes him invincible.
- Slows down his own movement (like a timer backfiring on him).
- MP is reduced to 1.
- Inflicts poison damage to himself.
- Inflicts sleep on himself.
- Makes him small.
- Inflicts the flower effect on himself.
0 Turns him invisible.

Negative effects occur more often than positive, making it a gamble.

It can also activate other spells, such as Acceleratle, and either Oomph or Psych Up (they look so similar I can't tell which one). I've also heard it can activate Kamikaze but I've never seen it happen.

 

[B_Burg]

So with bounce active Hero really does get to lock Megaman down to just using a few moves for a full 10 seconds?

 

[$.A.F.]

So with bounce active Hero really does get to lock Megaman down to just using a few moves for a full 10 seconds?

Essentially yes

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So with bounce active Hero really does get to lock Megaman down to just using a few moves for a full 10 seconds?

Yup. Bounce forces Mega Man to use something that isn't Mega Buster (Neutral Attack, Forward Tilt, and Neutral Aerial), Charge Shot, Metal Blade, Leaf Shield (Thrown), Crash Bomber, Mega Arm (No I will not call it Hard Knuckle), or Air Shooter. I'm pretty sure this means he has two safe options (Flame Sword and Slash Claw), and one still valid but more risky option (Down Tilt).

 

[Lacrimosa]

WH #SmashBros #SmashBrosUltimate #NintendoSwitch pic.twitter.com/woDLboRY1j

— Minik (@Mini_k250) July 31, 2019

Whelp.
This broke a whole shield and fSmash killed at 0%.
This Ganon obviously isn't good, but the fact it gets rid of a full shield is kinda obnoxious.

 

[ARISTOS]

If anything, rather than Robin, Hero seems to play something like Samus mixed with a swordie. And his ledge game is bonkers.

I think Hero and Robin actually play exactly opposite gameplans.

Robin uses their spells to set up into Levin Sword. The win condition comes from Levin aerials/smashes, Thunder/Arcfire/Nos either condition you to jump into danger zones/set you up for a big reward.

Hero's normals are pretty meager in comparison, they're really only there to ward off overly aggro players so you can get to your spells, which are Hero's win condition.

The Frizz line of spells might be the best chargeable move in the game lol, 39% for such a short charge time is pretty bonkers

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Well in other patch news. The status quo looks to be unchanged. I guess Nintendo are pretty sastifed with the current balance at the moment No characters really got nerfed except but got some pretty good buffs in exchange. I hear msny people say PT has been slightly nerfed overall. But like to see what PT users like Puppeh who use Zard fairy often can do with his buffs

is a pretty big winner. The buffs aside from his better recovery did not really fix his problems. But his already scary advantage state can now even be more threatening. Id say he can possibly reach upper mid possibly.

Oh and I guess was nerfed.. I guess he is destined to be never the contedner.

 

[B_Burg]

Essentially yes

Yup. Bounce forces Mega Man to use something that isn't Mega Buster (Neutral Attack, Forward Tilt, and Neutral Aerial), Charge Shot, Metal Blade, Leaf Shield (Thrown), Crash Bomber, Mega Arm (No I will not call it Hard Knuckle), or Air Shooter. I'm pretty sure this means he has two safe options (Flame Sword and Slash Claw), and one still valid but more risky option (Down Tilt).

Well that's not what I wanted to hear. Though I appreciate the answers.

Just another bit of worry added to the concern I already had about Megaman's future.

 

[TheMightyP]

Quick question: How much will the Isabelle buffs improve her? Her biggest issues were her poor rolls and terrible jab, as well as Lloid not working when its supposed to. It seems as if the first 2 were fixed, and the last one was made more consistent, so how much will those buffs improve her in the long run (or at least, expected improvement)?

If this isn't the place to discuss, then move this to the Patch Notes discussion thread.