COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[kupo15]

a good idea for smash canceling would be to skip the hit phase and go right into the cool down. Smash canceling includes only the startup and cool down lag

 

[Deleted member]

we had the discussion on smash canceling already.
also a techskill is supposed to make a game deeper, not wider.

smashcanceling is making the game deeper by giving a rarely used thing more meaning.

 

[Deleted member]

we had the discussion on smash canceling already.
also a techskill is supposed to make a game deeper, not wider.

smashcanceling is making the game deeper by giving a rarely used thing more meaning.

options=/=depth?

 

[CountKaiser]

Meh, I still want something to do with the edge game rather than the stage game. Problem is I can't think of anything.

Best I can come up with is backtracking, where a character can face forward and still move backwards, and even dash backwards while facing forward., but that's something for stage gameplay.

 

[Phantom1987]

what you are saying is something like link's target locking in zelda?? (press a button to lock the view in one direction).. would be funny.. But I don't know how it could be made (animation ?).. but it would add a lot of things like edge game and the posibility of pressuring alot with forward tilt xD..

other ideas could be making a better platform game.. like .. pressing a button just when you are going through a platform to stick to it (like happens with moving platforms) or maybe we could make something like "magus cancel" aplied to special attacks and with only half lag..

I know some may sound like stupid ideas but comprehend, this is like a brainstorming.. I'm sleepy.. And maybe they will help to better ideas to come out :D

 

[Deleted member]

I thought about speeding up the ledge attack with added SA frames, at the cost of a third of you shield.

 

[GHNeko]

I thought about speeding up the ledge attack with added SA frames, at the cost of a third of you shield.

That's pimp, though the shield cost idea is e__e.

Also, speed up ledge rolls. Ledge hops are too predictable and ledge rolls are too easy to punish.

 

[Deleted member]

well you'd have to choose, that's whole point, there has to be some thought in it. we could also let you take a certain amount of dmg.

that way you can either go for the normal, risky approach were you don't "pay" anything, but take the risk of getting knocked off again.
or you can go for the safe and fast recovery, but pay by taking some damage

and to other peole, we are not limited to the current "meters" we have, so paying in shield damage or normal damage isn't neccasary, but you have to come up with a reasonable way to make it visible (lucario's aura for example).

EDIT: come to think of it we can give lucario some cool options which he has to pay with aura, and make it's normal aura build faster and cap higher to compensate. in the original series the aura wasn't based on damage right?
but this would be another character specific thing.

 

[Rkey]

Even if haven't the slightest influence here, I would still like to express my opinion:

Don't add things that haven't been in previous smash games.

Just because it would be "cool" to do certain things at the cost of your own shield doesn't necesarily make the game better.


Checking if everyone's against me or not before I describe this more throughly.

 

[GHNeko]

Don't add things that haven't been in previous smash games.

If it improves the overall game, why not? :V

Techjumping was not in any other smash game, but it would add depth to the game overall and its not like it wouldnt feel foreign at all. Or at least not much. V:

 

[goodoldganon]

One of the points of Brawl+ was to try and bring the best aspects of the previous Smash games back. Brawl already added a lot of AT (mostly character ones but some universal, think RAR) we really don't need to create a new one. I think Brawl+ is fine considering we are going to add ledge teching and better meteor canceling.

 

[Phantom1987]

Personally I am a believer of the "try, then judge".. I feel that designing new things for brawl+ could have awesome results and, in the worst of the cases, you can say "well, I don't like it so we will not use them" as it happened with many other codes. The whole idea of brawl+ is making a more "competitive game" so if things can be develope to make it, why not??

 

[GHNeko]

Tech jumping plz.

 

[goodoldganon]

Tech jumping plz.

Code it plz.

And code it to be balanced, don't just link me the other code.

 

[GHNeko]

I'd need info to see what is possible and what isnt possible. The best I could do is troubleshoot and brainstorm, but I couldnt actually code it. ;__;

I'd still help as much as possible though.

 

[Deleted member]

Personally I am a believer of the "try, then judge".. I feel that designing new things for brawl+ could have awesome results and, in the worst of the cases, you can say "well, I don't like it so we will not use them" as it happened with many other codes. The whole idea of brawl+ is making a more "competitive game" so if things can be develope to make it, why not??

this.
since we now have a stable and fairly balanced build we can switch the focus of nightly builds to actual experimental builds. people can stall access it, but it would be only to try stuff, not actually test the balance each day.

 

[V-K]

If you watch things like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdUeaC7M3oo you see, that Melee is still much more hardcore and competitive than Brawl+.

What about an updated wavedash code?

 

[Deleted member]

no. please, we have finally gotten rid of the melee 2.0 stigma and bringing back wavedash would be a bad thing.
rather come up with a new spacing tool like squirtles hydroplaning (was that the name? I dunno)

 

[Rudra]

What about a waveland of some sort? Like if you held a diagonal direction upon fastfalling from a short hop (or full hop), you'll get a slide? It wouldnt be as abusable as Wavedashing at least, and it may add something to the ledge game and stage game. I just wonder if its going to be possible to code...

Spoiler

Just throwing that out there...

 

[cman]

Ok two ideas. Make the platform autosnap thing (where you land on a moving platform instead of jumping up through it by pressing down while travelling upward) work for all non-moving platforms as well, if that is possible to code. It would really be great for mobility, and it already exists in the game, proving to not be broken.

Second, erase all lag from aerials and aerial specials if you land before the hitbox/projectile comes out. For example, ness' pk fire has a lot of land lag even if nothing is shot. It would be useful for mindgames, especially on moves with very distinct sounds (like pk fire).

Does no one else think that these are great ideas? Or is it just that they aren't possible to code?

 

[Me_Aludes]

Does no one else think that these are great ideas? Or is it just that they aren't possible to code?

I like the first one, and I would like to see it included in B+.

The second one, however, I find it rather unnecessary. If the hitbox didn't came out, the aerial was timed poorly, so landing lag allows a deserved punishment. However, the idea is not bad, and some attacks could have that property, so it becomes another balance tool/ specific tech.

 

[Phantom1987]

Could it be posible to make a code which permits all characters to "glidetoss" throwing an invisible and no damaging (so practically non existing) item?? this would be an usefull spacing tool, similar to the wavedash many want, without changing the aerial dodge.

Another idea would be making posible to JC everything.. like tilts, smashes, b-attacks... etc.. This will add a better control and more posibilities for movement and spacing (like dashing backwards and making a forward tilt in the opposite direction.. a strategy that could be used in melee because of the wavedash). the thing is, that it would permit to do more things during the dash animation, incentivating more ground game. the only problem with this is that people with too much buff would have difficulties jumping and attacking sometimes.. but maybe the jump cancel can be mapped for another button or just make it possible in the first frames..

For last I want to say I like the idea of "autosnap" in every platform.. the platform game would be much better.

 

[V-K]

I don´t understand why everyone wants the Brawl air dodge.
It´s just an annoying move that gives you invincibilty frames and is a stupid combo breaker. >_>

 

[GHNeko]

I don´t understand why everyone wants the Brawl air dodge.
It´s just an annoying move that gives you invincibilty frames and is a stupid combo breaker. >_>

Err...Because we're not playing Melee anymore? idk.

 

[Phantom1987]

If he can airdodge, then is not a combo. Why would you want an infinite juggle?? For what I understand, you don't like having a good air dodge, because the only good thing the melee air dodge had were nothing to do with it first purpose, "dodge". As a dodging tool, melee airdodge is not very good.

 

[GHNeko]

Also, Melee Air Dodge gave you invincibility frames. That's the point of an air dodge. :V

 

[dabridge]

Hitstun seems perfect to me. More of it would make it feel too much like Smash 64.

 

[stingers]

Yeah, hitstun is great. You should've played some of the earlier versions and seen how stupidly easy it was to combo to death with some characters. The hitstun in this newest version is basically perfect.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

how much more hitstun is there now?

 

[stingers]

I think it's the same as 4.0, I was just referring to the old versions from like January.

 

[kupo15]

If you watch things like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdUeaC7M3oo you see, that Melee is still much more hardcore and competitive than Brawl+.

I agree

I don´t understand why everyone wants the Brawl air dodge.
It´s just an annoying move that gives you invincibilty frames and is a stupid combo breaker. >_>

I don't like how it currently is. We are planning on making gravity floatier than vbrawl for air dodges so you don't go as far around melee distance I think.

If he can airdodge, then is not a combo. Why would you want an infinite juggle?? For what I understand, you don't like having a good air dodge, because the only good thing the melee air dodge had were nothing to do with it first purpose, "dodge". As a dodging tool, melee airdodge is not very good.

I think the you cover too much ground (er....air?) while invincible and that is the problem

 

[shanus]

I agree

I don't like how it currently is. I want to make gravity floatier than vbrawl for air dodges so you don't go as far around melee distance I think.


I think the you cover too much ground (er....air?) while invincible and that is the problem

bolded = corrected to display proper intentions, not representative of wbr

 

[huntercrunch]

Yeah I guess I must be n00bing or something haha.

 

[Rkey]

Ok, since I've got some time and it seems my statement caused a discussion, let me explain what I'm talking about:

If we add things, it should be to enhance the "smash-feeling" already present in the game. I do not like the idea of letting you do things at the cost of your shield since it just sounds complicated and doesn't seem to add any depth to the game at all, only more options. And to me, more options would only make the game to complicated and that would make it less fun to play.

I mean, really, we already have aproximately 40 options for every situation, a lot more if you consider waiting an then acting as an option (I could list them if u wish), and adding more options wouldn't make sense.

The things I like adding are things that make sense basically, like that "no lag if hitbox isn't out". I don't think it would be good to add, due to the punishment received from failing is a good aspect, but as an example it would just make the game a little easier to play and add a single aspect to the game.

Don't know if I'm making myself clear now ;P But I hope someone understands what I'm trying to say.

 

[Seikishidan Soru]

Ok, since I've got some time and it seems my statement caused a discussion, let me explain what I'm talking about:

If we add things, it should be to enhance the "smash-feeling" already present in the game. I do not like the idea of letting you do things at the cost of your shield since it just sounds complicated and doesn't seem to add any depth to the game at all, only more options. And to me, more options would only make the game to complicated and that would make it less fun to play.

What I don't get here :

1) How does that sound "complicated"? Wouldn't that be a mere trade-off? People who play fighting games competitively are used to them anyway.
2) What do you call "depth", if that's not defined by the amount of viable options at your disposal?

Seems to me that you're way too focused on the "easy to play" part.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok, since I've got some time and it seems my statement caused a discussion, let me explain what I'm talking about:

If we add things, it should be to enhance the "smash-feeling" already present in the game. I do not like the idea of letting you do things at the cost of your shield since it just sounds complicated and doesn't seem to add any depth to the game at all, only more options. And to me, more options would only make the game to complicated and that would make it less fun to play.

I mean, really, we already have approximately 40 options for every situation, a lot more if you consider waiting an then acting as an option (I could list them if u wish), and adding more options wouldn't make sense.

The things I like adding are things that make sense basically, like that "no lag if hitbox isn't out". I don't think it would be good to add, due to the punishment received from failing is a good aspect, but as an example it would just make the game a little easier to play and add a single aspect to the game.

Don't know if I'm making myself clear now ;P But I hope someone understands what I'm trying to say.

options=/=depth?

10reposts.

 

[Deleted member]

if options isn't depth, then what is depth tnemrot?

cuz you haven't explained it twice now.

 

[Toadster5]

What is so bad about the Melee 2.0 stigma? The people that disregard the project because it seems like Melee 2.0 are probably just going to play Brawl anyway. The people who enjoy Brawl have no reason to switch from a more popular and convenient game if they're content with it. It's like people are disregarding mechanics simply to avoid the Melee 2.0 label and not because they would be derogatory to gameplay.

 

[Deleted member]

if options isn't depth, then what is depth tnemrot?

cuz you haven't explained it twice now.

Sorry, if that sounded like a statement, it was a question (notice the question mark at the end)
And it is asking exactly what you're asking. I was asking them if they didn't think "more options = more depth" and if no, "Why not?".

 

[Deleted member]

ehm, you know tone doesn't carry over very well on the internet and it sounded like a sarcastic question mark to me. my bad.

toadster, that has a long story and most of the people the said "lulz melee 2.0" are indeed the ones that will never take this serious. it came from both brawl players and melee vets btw.
the reason we don't want the melee 2.0 stigma is because it would sound somewhat like a step back from brawl, and a lot of brawl players never played/didn't like melee. thus it would discourage brawl players from trying out B+.