COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[dgameman1]

So, you want the buffer to help you out where you'd otherwise mess up, but not mess you up where it makes you do things you don't want to do. I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect, but seriously, learn the proper timings on the button presses IMO. It had to be done in both the other Smash games, and all other fighters. Buffering is sloppy and impedes gameplay. Get rid of it.

For those of you still crying about things like autocanceling and other jump aerial timing, who actually plays on a gravity/fallspeed setting where those things are still actually possible within the jump window?

I know i dont =P

 

[kupo15]

So, you want the buffer to help you out where you'd otherwise mess up, but not mess you up where it makes you do things you don't want to do. I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect, but seriously, learn the proper timings on the button presses IMO. It had to be done in both the other Smash games, and all other fighters. Buffering is sloppy and impedes gameplay. Get rid of it.

For those of you still crying about things like autocanceling and other jump aerial timing, who actually plays on a gravity/fallspeed setting where those things are still actually possible within the jump window?

I wish instant aerials were possible on 0 buffer which is why I switch between the two not sure which one to pick....0 buffer would be superior if that was fixed...

 

[plasmatorture]

For the record, I agree with kupo.

On a random note, does anyone else feel like Jigg's Rest could use improvement? She hasn't gotten a lot of playtime from us lately so nobody has comboed into it, but the few times it did hit the opponent would be at like 80-100% and still live which seems wrong.

 

[Yeroc]

I think I agree. If we get around to damage/knockback reduction, that's certainly one that could be increased instead.

 

[zxeon]

I also agree with Kupo.

 

[SketchHurricane]

So, you want the buffer to help you out where you'd otherwise mess up, but not mess you up where it makes you do things you don't want to do. I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect, but seriously, learn the proper timings on the button presses IMO. It had to be done in both the other Smash games, and all other fighters. Buffering is sloppy and impedes gameplay. Get rid of it.

For those of you still crying about things like autocanceling and other jump aerial timing, who actually plays on a gravity/fallspeed setting where those things are still actually possible within the jump window?

The type of timing required by an unnecessarily low buffer is the kind that possibly slows down gameplay slightly (See my eariler post). Think about it - if you're the kind of person that executes perfectly every time with 1 frame buffer, then you are undoubtedly being conservative on your timing, because executing too early would produce nothing. In other words, your playing slower in order to execute perfectly. Therefore it is in our interests to create a reasonable window, not a hardcore that's going to cause many errors at the low level. This game isn't Street Fighter. There's plenty of execution errors at the low level in SF, and Brawl is the type of game that should be easier. This is all my opinion of course, but I think it makes sense, and I think 3 is a reasonable window.

 

[Shell]

I've been brainstorming on a lot of possible buffs for the current lower characters, as I'm sure everyone else has. As soon as we hear back from PW in terms of what kinds of tweaks are the most practical (just KB? Animation speed? Stickers?) I think it would be wise to open a thread to compile the general opinions.

I'm sure it will be very democratic (read: argumentative), for better or worse. But it's very exciting. Kupo, could you let us know as soon as PW gets a general idea for what's most feasible?

Also, I think we should just stick to a few choice buffs on current low characters, avoiding nerfs except possibly MK and Sheik's ftilt lock.

 

[CyberGlitch]

If people are having problems with a one buffer frame (1/60th of a second), clearly they lack precision. Not me, nor my friends have this problem with crouching at the end of aerials.

If possible I'd be very interested in 3 buffer. Cancelling jabs would be much easier (and by that I mean possible).The game would be more fluent in general. It also helps make crouch cancelling more useful.


Another issue that still needs to be addressed is the teching window.

 

[Yeroc]

If anything I'd buff Sheik's ftilt, lol. No more low knockback lock .

Edit: We aren't having problems with it (I'm not anyhow), but some of us feel that 0 buffer would be better.

 

[kupo15]

I've been brainstorming on a lot of possible buffs for the current lower characters, as I'm sure everyone else has. As soon as we hear back from PW in terms of what kinds of tweaks are the most practical (just KB? Animation speed? Stickers?) I think it would be wise to open a thread to compile the general opinions.

I'm sure it will be very democratic (read: argumentative), for better or worse. But it's very exciting. Kupo, could you let us know as soon as PW gets a general idea for what's most feasible?

Also, I think we should just stick to a few choice buffs on current low characters, avoiding nerfs except possibly MK and Sheik's ftilt lock.

sure but Ive sent him a pm a week ago and haven't had a response yet. He has the flu so I wouldn't bank on a quick response

 

[Shadic]

I'm sure it will be very democratic (read: argumentative), for better or worse. But it's very exciting. Kupo, could you let us know as soon as PW gets a general idea for what's most feasible?

Also, I think we should just stick to a few choice buffs on current low characters, avoiding nerfs except possibly MK and Sheik's ftilt lock.

And Snake's ftilt? >_>

Anyways, I think we should just make a list of possible buffs, with specific explanations as to how the game would be effected by each, and then have everybody vote for the in mass. And there would need to be a significant majority (Probably 66%) for them to get into the game.

That's the easiest way I can think of doing it.

 

[leafgreen386]

@Yeroc: I think that's what they meant by "nerf" lol

Anyway, I revamped one of my older posts about the CSS to be more up to date, so now it's basically like a full little tutorial on making your own CSS:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6360644&postcount=3238

I'm probably gonna remake my CSS soon. After seeing plasmatorture's, I got an idea on how to fix up my full character select screen so it like actually looks good.

 

[matt4300]

And Snake's ftilt? >_>

Anyways, I think we should just make a list of possible buffs, with specific explanations as to how the game would be effected by each, and then have everybody vote for the in mass. And there would need to be a significant majority (Probably 66%) for them to get into the game.

That's the easiest way I can think of doing it.

well first we should agree on what all chars need buffs/nerfs then list them and as we come up with and agree(lol) on things the thread maker will list then below each chars name with and explanation as to why we are buffing or nerfing them... and keep all this in the first post... i dont think it will be to hard to agree on the majority imo. i dont think anyone will argue on things like links recovery or bowser sucking anyway...
i really cant wait for this part! i can actually contribute here ... as i have probley played smash as much as you guys. (and my mains/secondaries are link, samus, bowser, and ness.)

 

[Osi]

For the record, I agree with kupo.

On a random note, does anyone else feel like Jigg's Rest could use improvement? She hasn't gotten a lot of playtime from us lately so nobody has comboed into it, but the few times it did hit the opponent would be at like 80-100% and still live which seems wrong.

I main jiggly, so I have been using her constantly. I rest combo'd 3 times today alone from up air twice and a back air once, and I'm at 8%. It's easy to land if you know the % and moves to use (DI out of the uair is possible of course, but if you read them well it's not hard to land it). I would be fine with a little buff, but anything more than that and I'd be worried.

Keep in mind I am landing sleep combos without them leaving my stun at 8% hitstun with 1.25 down gravity and SH .8 on... so it's not that hard.

All of my jiggly matches are try to setup into a rising up air until 80%, then try for nair/weak bair to sleep combos until 120%, and then if they are still alive I just WOP (this is general of course, but on average it goes this way). On 8% I have found combos into sleep on all characters while they are still in stun.

Oh and these combos kill with sleep, not just talking about combos into it where sleep hits. I will not post videos of jiggly for a while sadly. I'm currently working on a falcon video for the next month, and honestly people seem to be tired of all the combos into rest in my videos.

I'm also playing teams matches for a hour each day now. We have 3 melee/brawl vets and 1 guy totally new to smash in them for now, so if anyone wants to see some highlights from those I can put that together.

.8 SH/ 1.4 Dash/ 1.2 FF - feels right, and has a lot of possibilities at 8% hitstun without cake combos. I highly recommend trying this for at least 4 or 5 hours against a good opponent. It changes some things, but helps more than it hurts IMO.

 

[Alopex]

Is it really necessary to single me out alopex like Im some sort of bad person????? Seriously and I am actually using 1 frame thank you very much >_>

Maybe I'll start singling you out when you have different opinions... -_-

Lol, kupo, I singled you out because you tend to be an important person in this project with a very vocal opinion. You spearhead things, so your opinion carries more weight than most. It doesn't matter how I feel about 0 buffer, or how leaf feels, there are enough people who want it to warrant it be mentioned. You're just the most influential of those.

As such, if I didn't mention the 0 buffer in my list, someone would have pointed it out.


You can single me out if you want but... I think you misunderstood the intention of my mentioning you.

 

[Osi]

I switched back to 1 buffer and all the things buffering allows are easily done, but it didn't affect me doing moves differently that much. I'm in strong opinion it is the right route to go. The timing is now hard to use buffer for techniques requiring it, but it removes the crutch buffer once was on fast hand movements. I am loving it a ton. I'm going back through all the pages now to see if I missed replies to my stuff, sorry all I have been super busy at work...

 

[Starscream]

There were a few solutions to it, but nobody decided on what was better, and the group involved decided that the solutions they came up with weren't good enough yet.

One solution that worked very well was an action modifier code that put both the grabber and the grabbed into their respective grab release animations. It got rid of infinites and regrabs but I think a few grab release setups could still be done. However, Olimar would cause the game to freeze when someone broke his grab (lack of grab release animation?).

So, you want the buffer to help you out where you'd otherwise mess up, but not mess you up where it makes you do things you don't want to do. I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect, but seriously, learn the proper timings on the button presses IMO. It had to be done in both the other Smash games, and all other fighters. Buffering is sloppy and impedes gameplay. Get rid of it.

For those of you still crying about things like autocanceling and other jump aerial timing, who actually plays on a gravity/fallspeed setting where those things are still actually possible within the jump window?

Amen brotha. I agree 100%.

If people are having problems with a one buffer frame (1/60th of a second), clearly they lack precision. Not me, nor my friends have this problem with crouching at the end of aerials.

Because you're probably buffering another action before the crouch comes out. I played with 1 buffer for a bit and it doesn't happen that often but when it does it bothers the hell out of me. I went back to 0 buffer and prefer it far more. Go into training mode, do only 1 SHFFLed Nair with Fox the same way you would in Melee and tell me you don't crouch. Do multiple SHFFLs in succession and you'll just buffer a jump before the crouch comes out. Do only 1 and you'll see how stupid it really is.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

I noticed "hookshot anywhere onto the stage" is removed from the agenda, any reason behind that?

 

[Alopex]

I agree with Lucario (he can't be changed anyway... lol), but... Link? Not so sure about that. He can't do anything to retaliate from the ledge and if he ASL's, his Up B won't hit people away from the ledge like it did in Melee so he could get back onto the stage. And, why would tethers change? lol. They work the same right now as is. Lucas and Ness seem okay now... well, Lucas I have a bit of a problem with. Sky rocketing against FD's edge?... Not good. I'd be fine with him ASLing.

When I mean ASL for Link and tethers I mean that they retain that ability to snap onto the ledge from greater distances like in VB. For Link, it's just for the matter of his recovery already having a low chance of reaching the ledge. For tethers, same reason. Their recovery is so gimpable that I think keeping that snap to edge for them could give them at least an infinitesimally small help.

Having said that, the buffer window glitches for anything above 1 need to be fixed first, of course.

I'll go add that to the list.

We hatin' on Kupo? *High five*
Wait, I think zero buffer should be fixed too. What do I do?

I think zero buffer should be fixed too I don't like ducking after SHFLing a Nair with Marth.

Buffering is sloppy and impedes gameplay. Get rid of it.

For those of you still crying about things like autocanceling and other jump aerial timing, who actually plays on a gravity/fallspeed setting where those things are still actually possible within the jump window?

I wish instant aerials were possible on 0 buffer which is why I switch between the two not sure which one to pick....0 buffer would be superior if that was fixed...

Edit: We aren't having problems with it (I'm not anyhow), but some of us feel that 0 buffer would be better.

This is exactly why I included it in the list.

Why did I start getting negative feedback? Yes, I like 1 buffer more than 0 and agree with leaf on that.

But I recognized that there were others that prefer the 0 buffer and thus kept it on the list for the sake of being UNBIASED.

How would anyone think I'm "hating on kupo" based on that?

Kupo, you were just the most prominent name that came to my mind when I responded to leaf. I couldn't just say "others like 0 buffer" without stating a name I was sure of. You were that name.

How exactly did that offend you or anyone who supports 0 buffer?

It's on the list. It's going to stay on the list until it's fixed.

To maintain the unbiased nature of the list, I will add the fixing of the glitches in 2+ buffers.

Goodness...

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

I noticed "hookshot anywhere onto the stage" is removed from the agenda, any reason behind that?

think about how it works. the hookshot looks for something to latch onto, in melee, it just shot straight. if we made it so that the hookshot could shoot anywhere, everyone would be able to grip onto those ledges.

also, character specific changes (although many characters have grapples) aren't a priority. then again, there are some still up there.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

On the agenda it said anywhere on the stage, I thought it meant to able to tether onto the sides of stages like in Melee, not just straight to the edges like it currently does.

If it just shot straight, that would be fantastic.

 

[Alopex]

I edited my list on page 308.

I believe it pleases everyone now? Hopefully people will see it and be reminded of the issues we still have to address within the currently available codes.

 

[Starscream]

I'm surprised people got offended in the first place...

 

[Dan_X]

Okay, So I haven't played Smash for a few days-- one of the reasons being is that I simply haven't had time. I've hung out with my "smash friend" quite a bit, though as it worked out we didn't have time to play. Another factor that I haven't played, is simply because I feel like there's too much work to do with my codes.

I have yet to use any of the newer codes. For example, I haven't used the new buffer code-- then I heard it doesn't work correctly. In addition, I haven't yet used the merger code. I've plugged much of this stuff into my code manager-- I've also downloaded the newer version that counts the lines for you (thank God!). I have some questions, and I love for someone to help me out.

1. Does the buffer code in the merger code work? -- even despite the current issues such as anything above 1 being bugged and 0 not having canceled aerials.

2. I've heard that for some reason using the merger code and playing a map that has been slowed down or reversed negates codes such as ALC, etc, is this true? In other words, on stages that are influenced by the speed modifier, using the merger code, ALC stops working. Has this been resolved?

3.What should I be using for a shield stun code? I am currently using the version that is said not to have NPS... should I continue using this until the kinks have been worked out of the newer code?

I think that's everything I can think of atm...

Thanks guys!

 

[zxeon]

Okay, So I haven't played Smash for a few days-- one of the reasons being is that I simply haven't had time. I've hung out with my "smash friend" quite a bit, though as it worked out we didn't have time to play. Another factor that I haven't played, is simply because I feel like there's too much work to do with my codes.

I have yet to use any of the newer codes. For example, I haven't used the new buffer code-- then I heard it doesn't work correctly. In addition, I haven't yet used the merger code. I've plugged much of this stuff into my code manager-- I've also downloaded the newer version that counts the lines for you (thank God!). I have some questions, and I love for someone to help me out.

1. Does the buffer code in the merger code work? -- even despite the current issues such as anything above 1 being bugged and 0 not having canceled aerials.

2. I've heard that for some reason using the merger code and playing a map that has been slowed down or reversed negates codes such as ALC, etc, is this true? In other words, on stages that are influenced by the speed modifier, using the merger code, ALC stops working. Has this been resolved?

3.What should I be using for a shield stun code? I am currently using the version that is said not to have NPS... should I continue using this until the kinks have been worked out of the newer code?

I think that's everything I can think of atm...

Thanks guys!

1. The merger buffer code works just like the first one glitches and all.

2. Not true

3. Get Mookie's code list. It's a good starting point. Just add things on you like and play.

 

[plasmatorture]

For 2. I believe frozen doesn't work, but reversed does. Well, it definitley works with reversed, and I have heard it doesn't work on frozen.

Almas mentioned he would fix it by adding a line but I do not know if that has been done yet, but really I see no reason to ever freeze a stage when you can reverse it instead, except for castle siege (but why would you want to freeze/reverse it anyways?).

 

[Dan_X]

I don't like some portions of Castle Siege. I like the first version, and the lava version... and perhaps another one? But I hate the walk off versions--- especially the statue one. I hate how they aren't just background decorations, they absorb attacks and it lags when you hit them -- come to think of it, I wonder if the hitlag code fixes that. Anyway, If I could make it so it only switches between the castle and the lava-- I'd do it.

You could say that I play with extra frozen / reversed stages. I like green greens a ton more frozen. Pirate ship is also cool reversed.. would this level EVER be used for tournaments in it's reversed state (no hazards)?

I obviously use it to reverse PS2 (is the screen in the background suposed to work when reversed?-- mine always says "Go!"). In addition, I love pictochat frozen, so great! Warioware is another great reversed map. hmm

 

[kupo15]

This is exactly why I included it in the list.

Why did I start getting negative feedback? Yes, I like 1 buffer more than 0 and agree with leaf on that.

But I recognized that there were others that prefer the 0 buffer and thus kept it on the list for the sake of being UNBIASED.

How would anyone think I'm "hating on kupo" based on that?

Kupo, you were just the most prominent name that came to my mind when I responded to leaf. I couldn't just say "others like 0 buffer" without stating a name I was sure of. You were that name.

How exactly did that offend you or anyone who supports 0 buffer?

It's on the list. It's going to stay on the list until it's fixed.

To maintain the unbiased nature of the list, I will add the fixing of the glitches in 2+ buffers.

Goodness...

Sorry I just interpreted it wrong. Its just lately Ive been seeing my name in bad contextes that I'm sorta in the defensive mode right now

I'm surprised people got offended in the first place...

Things are really stressful right now for me, hopefully a phoenix down will come next week...

 

[plasmatorture]

I don't like some portions of Castle Siege. I like the first version, and the lava version... and perhaps another one? But I hate the walk off versions--- especially the statue one. I hate how they aren't just background decorations, they absorb attacks and it lags when you hit them -- come to think of it, I wonder if the hitlag code fixes that. Anyway, If I could make it so it only switches between the castle and the lava-- I'd do it.

You could say that I play with extra frozen / reversed stages. I like green greens a ton more frozen. Pirate ship is also cool reversed.. would this level EVER be used for tournaments in it's reversed state (no hazards)?

I obviously use it to reverse PS2 (is the screen in the background suposed to work when reversed?-- mine always says "Go!"). In addition, I love pictochat frozen, so great! Warioware is another great reversed map. hmm

Well, fair enough. hitlag doesn't change anything about the statues, though.

I'm thinking about freezing Green Greens. Does reversing it cause any problems? Also, Pirate Ship is cool reversed and I would use it, but my roommate would whine about it (same with Pictochat). He said he found reversed Warioware boring because it didn't have the minigames even though he hated the minigames and we had the stage turned off before.

Reversed PS2 does just say "Go!", but at least the background moves around a little bit.


Also kupo, try to take it easy if you can. Assuming your knowledge of music theory means you have more than a passive interest in it (what do you play?), I know how hectic things can get.

 

[Dan_X]

Well, fair enough. hitlag doesn't change anything about the statues, though.

Awwwwww. Yeah well, that's primarily why I dislike the level --- that and the other walk off versions. It's a pretty interesting map when it's only the first version-- such a small area-- so intense.

I'm thinking about freezing Green Greens. Does reversing it cause any problems? Also, Pirate Ship is cool reversed and I would use it, but my roommate would whine about it (same with Pictochat). He said he found reversed Warioware boring because it didn't have the minigames even though he hated the minigames and we had the stage turned off before.

I have no idea what reversing green greens will do. Basically, freezing it starts it so that the only yellow blocks that there will ever be are the ones that start off on the map (bombs included). Also, the tree no longer gusts wind at you... It's actually a pretty cool map. The ONLY reason I can see it abandoned for tourney play is the bombs that are there from the beginning. Otherwise it's hardly a problem.

My friend *****es about Pirate Ship too-- he hates water. I think it's a great map, generally you don't die by being sent straight down anyway... so vertical kills / horizontal kills are just as easy on this map. Obviously the water makes it safe as failed recoveries = swim. Still, you can spike through the water-- especially at high percents. No stage hazards makes this a very interesting level. I love it.

Pictochat is another great map, it's boundaries are small, so it's intense fighting to the point. You won't be living to high%s on this map. It's a great map. I love it. Different kind of edge game than the other neutrals here.

Warioware is another map that has small boundaries, but it's simply awesome. It's a great change up from the norm neutrals.

Also, I tend to like Norfair frozen. I'm not sure what others think about this map-- but there's no denying that it plays far differently than any other map-- without hazards it's actually another map to add to the playable list. Even when frozen the background moves in certain areas and it doesn't look messed up or anything. The lava won't rise, and nothing crazy will happen. As I said, this level plays quite differently from others... in that there's a new meaning of "edge game" here. There are what.. 4 edges on each side of the map?? It makes things very interesting. If people don't consider this a playable map in Brawl+, a good neutral, I'd be VERY surprised. Also, the "V" shape of the platforms tends to promote rediculous aerial games in the center of the "V."

What do you guys think about Norfair frozen?

 

[zxeon]

I have no Idea how to play on Norfair. There are so many platforms I get confused and amble around until I get killed. I like it I just don't know how to play it.

 

[Link_enfant]

What's the difference between freezing and reversing a stage ?
I've just tried the reversed PS2 an Wario stages code, but they only looked freezed, so I don't really get the difference. (anyway, awesome code just like everything else, Brawl+ forever )

 

[WeirdoZ Inc.]

@Orca: I'm a fan of Norfair frozen. I'd even go as far to say it would be one of my favorite levels. It's just unfortunate that the background doesn't have any movement. Makes it kinda boring.

Has anyone ever explored that level with the unrestricted pause camera? It's quite detailed. It even has Metroid style doors in the landscape. Pretty impressive.

 

[GPDP]

Has anyone tried Norfair reversed? I wonder if the background would move then without hazards.

 

[kupo15]

Well, fair enough. hitlag doesn't change anything about the statues, though.

I'm thinking about freezing Green Greens. Does reversing it cause any problems? Also, Pirate Ship is cool reversed and I would use it, but my roommate would whine about it (same with Pictochat). He said he found reversed Warioware boring because it didn't have the minigames even though he hated the minigames and we had the stage turned off before.

Reversed PS2 does just say "Go!", but at least the background moves around a little bit.


Also kupo, try to take it easy if you can. Assuming your knowledge of music theory means you have more than a passive interest in it (what do you play?), I know how hectic things can get.

Well then we need a code to affect the hitlag of level objects

I play the french horn and I actually have a junior recital coming up that may be postponed but things are really stressful cause of that. So yea, I did my part by getting all of these codes, I'll try to stay on the backburner and lurk a little more so that this project doesn't stress me out any more at this time.

I think that maybe increasing friction might be good for the game and we can really put Almas' dash code to good use since all runs should be slower due to the friction change.

 

[SGX]

I'd love increased traction + Muba's no dash end animation code. :o

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

Default CPU Level Modifier[Igglyboo]
C2693A70 00000002
3880000X 909E01D4
60000000 00000000

CPU Level - 0-8
(level 9 would be X=8, don't go over 8)

its safe to go over 8 i have check my level 18 or A-type level 9's thread

 

[Almas]

The merged code is essentially just PW's codes. I didn't modify the codes themselves - for half of them I didn't even bother to look at how they work in detail. They just follow a simple pattern, and I combined them based on that.

Exam on Tuesday, then I'll work on getting some codes done. I should really attempt to communicate with PW more - I believe he has insight on how to perform character tweak codes efficiently.

 

[kupo15]

Exam on Tuesday, then I'll work on getting some codes done. I should really attempt to communicate with PW more - I believe he has insight on how to perform character tweak codes efficiently.

Yea, I think that would be a lot better than myself talking to him

 

[eet]

So can someone post a sort of master code list I can use? I dont feel like shifting through 300 lines of code and changing hex values all over the place, I jus wanna play a Melee-esque Brawl -- does anyone mind PMing me their 'master' code list? preferably with all the cancels and speeded up gameplay.