Compendium of Lucas Advanced Techniques - 4/9

[Tyr_03]

check my new thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=154924

 

[Cake.]

So how much of this can actually be one without the b-stick change?

 

[Levitas]

all of it. good luck if you're gonna try to do it that way. It's much easier to wavebounce with the bstick, and that's gonna be a lot of what you're doing. So your fingers will get tired quickly. or something.

I didn't like the bstick at first ,but it's really good.

 

[Tyr_03]

I updated my thread so that it's a little bit easier to follow. Please check it out.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=154924

 

[Veng]

Hey GofG and Levitas, I suggest you should add this to the front page. it makes alot more sense ( in my opinion )



WaveBounce\B stick would be this. Run a direction, Short hop the same direction hold your joy stick the same direction, then push the c stick the opposite direction.

"Dash assisted or "run away" wave dash: Essentially run a direction, short hop the same direction, DONT HOLD JOY STICK and c stick the opposite direction

So if you know the two seperately and correctly, one would be for running then attacking back to get control VERY QUICKLY. ( the second one ) and the first one would be when your in a face off type situation.

 

[GofG]

Erm... Yes. That is called wavebouncing, and it's already in there >.<

 

[Veng]

Okay finally that was confusing.

Itll take a while to master that. because your directional sense is off.. Pressing the opposite direction to go the opposite direction

 

[Seanson]

I noticed that nobody mentioned how the zap jump can be done with item throws AND item uses (ie. ray gun, super scope). I'll probably upload a short video I made demonstrating it tomorrow afternoon.

Throwing or using items is a good way to not mess up any horizontal momentum. Gyromite, banana peels, turnips, link bombs, and samus suit pieces are probably the only items you'll see in non-item games. or if dedede pulls out a capsule.

not much zapping when you're throwing a banana peel

 

[Veng]

Yea, its a good idea to D smash a few times or some nice aerials after a ZapJump. Possibly a Bstick? if it works?

 

[Seanson]

I'm wondering if you guys plan to change the controls every time you want to b-stick?

I hope I wont have to cause im starting to learn wavebouncing with the joystick

ok i figured out how to do it, it is kindo f difficult, requires some precsion, i can elaborate more after class which im almost late for now, so...

 

[-NEOLINK-]

Shoot i thought i was the first one to have found out that you can replace pk fire b-sticking. I'll still B-stick

 

[Seanson]

ok it is actually pretty easy to do if you just sit and practice it for a few minutes.

to do:
1. get some of that forward momentum that makes wavebouncing worth it
2. 1st jump
3. pk fire backwards (opposite direction of momentum)
4. REALLY FAST - hit the joystick to your forward direction (same way as your momentum, direction pk fire will shoot)
5. done!

tips:
1. make sure you are pk firing backwards THEN tapping forward on the joystick

take note of:
1. not always as effective as b-sticking (but does it need to be... b-stick wavebouncing is extreme)
2. I estimate using the joystick you can reach 100% of the effect of b-sticking, but since it is based on the speed at which you change directions after you start the pk fire, it is reasonable to guess you'll consistently be doing about 50-75% of b-sticking's efficiency.
3. can be really bad sometimes, takes getting used to, but will always at least cancel your forward momentum.
4. doesn't require or use up jumps, but you need to be in the air. if you aren't in the air you can still change directions you just wont go anywhere.

 

[thumbswayup]

neat thread.

 

[GildedPunch]

@ Seanson,

does wavebouncing with analog stick require DI'ing backwards again AFTER you press forward ?

I was messing with it today and figured out how to do it pretty consistently too. (but you beat me to it in posting it)

While b-sticking IMMEDIATELY gives you backwards momentum, wavebouncing with the analog stick gives you backwards momentum AFTER lucas shoots pk fire.

But it still works pretty usefully. :D

 

[GofG]

Guys, don't even try to learn how to wavebounce without the b-stick. It's much, much easier to learn to control aerials having to adjust for DI of your left analog stick than it is to learn to wavebounce without a b-stick.

>.<

 

[arrowhead]

the hard part isn't learning how to do it. it's being quick enough to

 

[toasty]

this isn't an AT but I figure this is the best place to ask this question [I'll post this in the FAQ as well]

sorry if it's already been asked, I'm too tired and lazy to actually read through all of the other posts. But I don't remember this being mentioned in the guide, so here goes:

Is there a legitimate explanation for bouncing off the edge when you sweetspot with PKT2???? It just hurts my feelings...like the game is saying "......nahh, you sweetspotted that TOO well"

I don't have the game so I'm not sure if this happens on any stages other than Battlefield. I'll upload a vid soon, but I'm pretty sure most people have experienced this with Lucas. It really blows to lose a stock by sweetspotting the edge though

EDIT: HERE'S A VID

 

[Tyr_03]

Some stages have a lip just above the sweetspot that you'll bounce off of sometimes. Aim a little lower.

 

[toasty]

Some stages have a lip just above the sweetspot that you'll bounce off of sometimes. Aim a little lower.

word? man......okay, thanks. that helps a lot, I'll try that =D

 

[al-x_clip]

wow thanks this really helps out

 

[Dark Ryu]

So what would be the best control configuration for the zap jump? Just wanting to know...

 

[toasty]

you could probably set special moves to the CStick and keep tap-jump on so you can press up and "Bstick" left or right at the same time. I don't think I could switch to Bsticking after using the Cstick for aerials and smashes for so long >_> it'd take me way too long to get comfortable with it, and it's not even my playstyle. I'll just learn to do some of that the harder way haha

 

[Kaoz]

I dont know if this has been asked before somewhere, but I would really like to know if changing your control's configuration (bsticking) during a tournament is allowed, just in case if I sign up in one xD

 

[GofG]

Kaoz, it absolutely is allowed.

 

[Dark Ryu]

you could probably set special moves to the CStick and keep tap-jump on so you can press up and "Bstick" left or right at the same time. I don't think I could switch to Bsticking after using the Cstick for aerials and smashes for so long >_> it'd take me way too long to get comfortable with it, and it's not even my playstyle. I'll just learn to do some of that the harder way haha

I found that the zap jump is really easy to do with the L trigger changed to a jump, and this way you don't have to change your c-stick to a "B-stick."

 

[GofG]

Ah, but Dark Ryu, the main point of switching to the b-stick setup is to perform Wavebounces.

 

[Roger Racebannon]

Kaoz, it absolutely is allowed.

That is excellent news. I stayed out of the tournament scene when Melee was out (mainly because I was a little kid when it came out).

 

[Seanson]

i just got back from a tourney and people were cool about changing controls. most situations were to turn tap jump off but changing other things would be fine.

 

[Dark Ryu]

i just got back from a tourney and people were cool about changing controls. most situations were to turn tap jump off but changing other things would be fine.

Saw the same things at the tourney I went to yesterday. I really don't think anyone would mind about changing your controller config.

 

[ForteX]

That's good to hear. I thought about that earlier today after switching over to b-stick.

I guess while I'm here I'll throw in my two cents on a little something I picked up. It's probably not worth considering an advanced technique at all, and I'm sure someone else has done it already, but if you time it correctly, Lucas can use, as I call it, "PK Rapidfire". When standing on the ground, use PK fire, and as soon as it's hit its target or disappears, use it again in the opposite direction. The only plausible use for it as far as I can see would be crowd control if you were ever playing against two or three friends. Like I said, probably nothing to consider as an advanced technique, unless it can be built upon...

 

[prOAPC]

i was trying out something, perform a Zap Jump but with b-stick/wavebouncing, the result is, you can jump away from FD, make a Zap Jump with B-stick, and i land at the middle of the stage

 

[Agosta44]

Use the magnet afterwards for better results. I found that a couple days ago.

 

[Yup]

So have you guys found that this makes lucas better than he should be, or just playing differently. I play Lucario and lucas, but I didn't know any of the advanced move with lucas (and apprently Lucario can do one of lucas's advanced moves too) So whats your oppinion on all of this. I have yet to test out and learn lucas in this new way.

 

[Levitas]

The single most important technique for lucas is bsticking PK Fire. Followed by Zap jumping.

The PK Fire is vital.

 

[toasty]

The single most important technique for lucas is bsticking PK Fire. Followed by Zap jumping.

The PK Fire is vital.

What??? hmm...I disagree completely. Bsticking PK Fire is not the single most important technique...especially since you can do it manually without the bsticking...its just a lot harder. It's not like Melee's Falco where lasers were almost 100% essential to how you control the field and to your approach. PK Fire doesn't have the versatility that lasers, for example, had.

It just depends on your style. But it's not the most important thing for every Lucas player to learn. It's a great technique, don't get me wrong. hmmm, maybe this is one of those things that I shrug off until I realize it will be what separates high placing Lucas players from the rest. If my opinion ends up being wrong later, so be it...for now I'm sticking with this though: it's a cool trick and a great technique, but you can still be amazing without it.

That said...zap jumping is ****ing sweet.

 

[Yup]

Gotcha that all makes sense- toasty
And yes zap jump looks insane I can't wait to learn how to do it/own with it.

 

[ForteX]

Yes, the Zap Jump is great.. shame I can't do it that well :/ I've only succeeded at it 5 times now, in training mode. Anyone have any hints on the timing of it? I use the Y jump method for it, since using the L button for jump gets me killed. (Trying to shield with it )

 

[prOAPC]

i use the classic control, it is really easy
if you are using the game cube control, try using Z to jump

 

[Beock]

I Have Some new findings that arent mentioned in the firt post about Wave Zapping. It is possible to get even more distance and protect yourself as you return to the stage (Assuming your using it for recovery). Perform a Zap Jump with Bsticking THEN Perform ANOTHER PK Fire Using the B Button You will be pushed back still further from the PK fire recoil. For some reason it isnt possible to use the Bstick twice for this so you have to switch. Additionally You can also still use PsiM after the second PKF for distance and by holding the opposite Down-Diagonal Direction your facing you'll turn around when performing PsiM giving yourself an attack at you opponent if your lucky, its also possible to turn around w/o the 2nd PKF or Zap Jump.

To perform the Double Zap Wave with PsiM Reverse controls are as follows:
L = Left on Control Stick, DR = Down Right On the Control stick

L -> Y+R-Bstick -> L+B -> DR+B

Using this You can actually clear from one side of FD to the other. Hope this helps some and isnt... Old XD

EDIT : My Bad, You CAN use the C-Stick for the 2nd PK fire you just have to use it in the direction your facing However its still conveniant to use the B button as it allows you to be ready to Reverse Air your PsiM

EDIT 2: You can still go even FURTHER with Wave Zapping by Wave Zapping then alternating PKF and PsiM and get the same wavedashing effect each time :

Bstick Zap Jump -> PsiM -> PKF -> PsiM -> PKF Just keep repeating the two Its actually possible to go from one side of the screen to the other on FD.

 

[Tyr_03]

Add my thread on the thunderslide or atleast summarize it. This thread is sorely lacking any mention of PK Thunder.