Compendium of Lucas Advanced Techniques - 4/9

[KuroiNeko]

While you can spike pretty much anytime, it's still hard. The exact same parts of the bair that spike can send them upwards or sideways. While I was testing it, in slow mo, I noticed that the target was spiked from a variety of positions. Now it's not like no matter what you do, your opponent is spiked, you have to allign it correctly, but I'm not too sure exactly what the specifics of that are.

I don't use Lucas much in actual brawls, but I assume it's harder to get the perfect distance when the opponent is actively trying to dodge you and your spike.

 

[GofG]

I don't edgeguard with anything but PKT anymore. If they airdodge it, you can still hit them, and if they don't airdodge it or if they fumble their airdodge, you get about 20% on them, and it's very possible to get a gimp kill by pushing them off to the side.

 

[Tyr_03]

Amen. Lucas's PK Thunder is his greatest weapon.

 

[rigapeen]

hey just wanted to add that you can do a magnet pull without a double jump. if you do pkf right after you do a full hop you can do it.

 

[Trozz]

Hey, nice information here. This is really up to date.

[Mr. Saturn mark of approval]

 

[KuroiNeko]

hey just wanted to add that you can do a magnet pull without a double jump. if you do pkf right after you do a full hop you can do it.

Nice find, coupled with forward magnet pulling and you can have the ultimate mobility on the ground, or play mindgames with them. They think you're going to run away the entire length of the stage? Nah, you're going to close the distance you just made, while attacking, no less.

Actually, was that posted in here? Using back-down-b for the Psi Magnet in your magnet pull propels you forward instead (quite suddenly, I might add). Might want to use the actual B button, though, cause diagonal c-stick tends to make you neutral B or jump.

 

[GofG]

hey just wanted to add that you can do a magnet pull without a double jump. if you do pkf right after you do a full hop you can do it.

I was actually unaware of this. Thank you.

 

[supercake]

Isnt there some way to reverse the magnet pull from a zap jump and make it go forward?? This needs to be organized better.

 

[Levitas]

Yeah supercake, there is. However, it won't net you any distance if you bstick the Zap jump, making it a better idea to just zap jump and magnet pull with your back to the edge if you're going to do it.

 

[pklucas]

pkt may be the best edgeguarding move but is there a better feeling than spiking a b air? it even spikes if they're on solid ground by the edge

 

[supercake]

ok levitas but how do you it? I couldn't find it on the front page but I remember seeing it in a video.

 

[Jihnsius]

Realized something I haven't seen anything commented on yet: Zap jumping has nothing to do with the B attack, it has to do with projectiles and jumping. You can 'zap jump' while throwing any item with Lucas.

 

[GofG]

I'd like to see a video of that before I put it in the thread, Jihn. That sounds too unbelievable.

 

[Levitas]

lol, turnip or Samus armor jumping. This must be the same physics artifact as Turnip boosting then.

Basically, peach players can cancel a roll into an item throw to get a forward boost.

 

[toasty]

Basically, peach players can cancel a roll into an item throw to get a forward boost.

that the same as glide tossing? Watchout for ROB when he's holding a Gyro that he just picked up [meaning, after he initially shot it out onto the ground] because he can glide toss pretty far and then grab, jab, fsmash, anything really. haha, glide tossing with Lucas would be sweet, fly 1/3 across the stage into a grab or upsmash? craziness.

oh, for those who don't know how to glide toss, the variation in timing results in corresponding variation to the distance you travel [it's essentially the closest thing in Brawl to a wavedash], but you hold an item, and if you roll and press Cstick up/down/left/or right at the same time, you'll throw the item in whatever direction you Cstick, but you'll slide in the direction that you rolled and it's got some pretty amazing applications

 

[Jihnsius]

I'd like to see a video of that before I put it in the thread, Jihn. That sounds too unbelievable.

No video required, it's quite simple. I accidentally discovered it doing his BTT trying to throw an item up at a target (tap jump on) and instead of jumping and throwing it up, he threw it up and flew up with it at the same momentum.

 

[GofG]

Does he go the same distance as with a PKF zapjump?

 

[Tyr_03]

Hmm if the zap jump really is something that is happening just because of the projectile rather than PK Fire I wonder if it could have a similar effect with other characters? For instance Peach's second jump has a similar kind of slow start up as Lucas's does. Is it possible that with a turnip Peach could "zap jump" too? Or Ness for that matter with an item rather than his PK Fire? Interesting.

 

[Tyr_03]

When pressing jump and throwing an item at the exact same time every character gets a boost of some sort. The boost however is usually approximately the same distance as that as their second jump. You can tell that it is the same thing as zap jumping however because they move at a uniform speed rather than the slow speed that their 2nd jump might have. The most obvious example of this is Peach. Lucas seems to be the only one that they left the little glitch that makes him go super high though. This is not exclusive to just item throwing though. It actually works with most B moves with most characters. It seems to exclude any B move that stops momentum, which explains why you can't do it with Lucas's Down B, Up B or neutral B. Some characters get some really weird effects with this. Yoshi's "zap jump" actually sends him downward? very odd. It's definetly going to have some major effects in the tactics board so someone should make some videos. I'm off to the character boards to tell some people about some of the more useful ones.

 

[SoulTrigger]

Item zap jumping:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vf1BUp3tN0

 

[Jihnsius]

That's a pretty poor demonstration of thundersliding.

EDIT: I haven't been able to do anything close to gaining additional height with other characters. Characters that have curving double jumps will cancel the curve, but it won't gain any height. Yoshi's double jump "cancel" is the only other use worth noting.

 

[Exile724]

This seemed to be pretty helpful thank you for taking the time to post this.

 

[supercake]

hmmm I wonder vs. snake if the same 'item zap jump' could be done if you grab one of his grenades? they like to spam those a lot. I bet it could be timed to where as you were sent upward the grenade exploded you, renewing your jump again. Maybe lucas could even vertically kill himself that way???!

 

[Tyr_03]

lol item zap jump works with any item including bombs and grenades and the like but I doubt it could be useful for anything but fun.

 

[Man_With_Thooo]

I think I found another technique:

I'm sorry if there's already been a thread like this, but I searched the forums and I wasn't able to find anything similar.

VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z30b3-6qdG8

I was just fooling around with Lucas today when I eventually found out that you could sort of L-Cancel aerial PK Fires then connect with something else (A smash, a tilt, an aerial, a grab, a roll, or anything similar).

To do this, simply jump then quickly do a PK Fire. If done correctly, there should be a little time to do stuff in the air right after finishing the lag time of the PK fire. Right before touching the ground, do an air dodge. This lets you touch the ground before the air dodge ends canceling the PK Fire's Lag. From here, you could connect with anything. By the way, this also works with Zap-jumped/Double-jumped PK Fires. Heck, you could even do it with the PSI Magnet.

"Wait a minute, what's the point of using this in an actual match?"

Well, I've tested things out and I find out the doing a fast, wavebounced PK Fire is a faster way of traveling compared to simply running to your opponent. In other words, this could be useful if your opponent's far away and you wanna approach him with a USmash, a grab or an aerial. If he's really far away, you could probably use a magnet pull to approach them.



MAJOR EDIT: Tyr was right. You don't need to pull out your shield. Just press R in the air really fast right before landing, then you could connect with ANYTHING right when you land. I guess I should change the name of the thread.

 

[Aevin]

Great thread! I've read most of it, and I didn't see this in here, and I thought it was kinda cool.

I saw this video of someone using Zap Jumping techniques off of hanging from the ledge. They would tap away from the ledge, then zap jump facing either away from the stage (for ledge guarding) or toward the stage (for clearing the way for recovery).

What I didn't see them incorporate was B-sticking. Basically, tap away from the ledge while hanging, and hold away from the stage. Then use b-sticking to perform a zap jump. If done correctly, your B-stick momentum combined with the zap jump should propel you neatly up onto the stage at a tragectory which makes you land on one of the two lower platforms on Battlefield. I can see it being used as an unexpected way of getting up on the ledge. I dunno that it's really that useful, but it's fun and cool looking.

 

[GofG]

Man_With_Thooooooooooo, i'll put it in after I take a look at it myself. I'll have access to my wii later tonight.

 

[Man_With_Thooo]

By the way, please note that I made a few changes to my post so it's more accurate.

 

[PrivateRolf]

It's probably already been mentioned, but I didn't see pillaring (or at least a good imitation) on the list?

 

[TechnoMonster]

That's because Pillaring with Lucas isn't that good and can be blocked by holding the shield button, or DIing :/

 

[PrivateRolf]

That's because Pillaring with Lucas isn't that good and can be blocked by holding the shield button, or DIing :/

Only with certain character, though. For most characters, it will only go up to 50-100%.

About the shield, you do a regular jump (NOT a SH) and d-air, and hit the opponent directly above them with the third hit from the d-air. Fast fall straight down towards your opponent. Immediatley keep hitting your up-tilt. If you do it right, you can "pillar". Not as good as Falco's in melee, but you can get a decent amount of damage out of it.

If you want to go into more damage but more advanced version of this, you can try getting all three hits. It's harder to do on some characters (e.g. Cpt. Falcon).

About DI, it's all a matter of height (in comparison to lucas), weight (generally how much they bounce up imo), recovery from normal attacks, and safe moves.

I can get a video up later, if you want.

I've gotten it to sort of work on Pit, even. But it needs some more work and research.

I guess you should call this a "Fillar(fake + pillar) Combo

And this can really gimp Ike

Edit: I have to mention again that this isn't really pillaring, as after one or two times, they can escape, but you can get them back into the combo again.

Second edit: A good way to finish this off is to use PsiMagnet when you're near the edge.

 

[Tyr_03]

This form of "pillaring" is really escapable for anyone really. I've tried just about every way of doing it and there are ways out of all of them. You can probably get people a few times if they don't know what y ou're doing or aren't that experienced but it won't be long until they catch on and can escape. Smash DI and air dodges get you out.

 

[PrivateRolf]

Tvr, I think you're right.

Only person I could solidly do it with was Ike, but it looked like the computer didn't know when to air dodge during those few precious miliseconds after the third hit.

 

[supercake]

We need to get some vids up on all the other advanced techniques, like regular magnetpulling...

 

[Tyr_03]

We need to get some actual matches where people use some of these techniques to any effect. Techniques aren't useful unless you can apply them against good players. Sadly, there are very few Lucas players doing that well in tournaments apparantly and the ones I've seen haven't been magnet pulling or zap jumping or anything.

 

[supercake]

I don't understand why nobody is zapjumping. From all the vids Ive watched no one is doing it at all, which is wierd. Even if you mess up, theres usually still time to do pkt2 to recover.

 

[Man_With_Thooo]

Man_With_Thooooooooooo, i'll put it in after I take a look at it myself. I'll have access to my wii later tonight.

Have you tried it out yet?

 

[Levitas]

Tyr, Vidjo magnet pulls for recovery, but then again, he doesn't use lucas unless he's positive he'll win...

 

[Tyr_03]

Hmm well that's kind of cool to know. Wish he was playing Lucas more seriously though. Oh well.

 

[Man_With_Thooo]

If ever this is worthy of an AT.........

Dash Pivot Cancelled PK Fire

This has probably already been discovered before, but I just thought I'd point it out.

I'm sure most of us know about SamuraiPanda's Dash Pivot Cancel, right? If you don't, read about it here. This videos show how it works with smashes, but it also works with specials.

If you Dash Pivot Cancel the PK Fire, you're gonna slide a little during the initiation of the PKF then slide even more due to the backward momentum of the PKF. The more precise your timing, the longer the slide.

This isn't the most useful thing ever, but I use it sometimes for mindgames.