Collections of Cognitive Dissonance

[NovaSmash]

i'll get right on that, gav

gonna go jack off to random quotes, damn i wish i could get some naked pics of a tra--...nvm

anyway gav that was pretty much me explaining the situation to gav, don't really care if you're a good or a bad TO to be honest, you have some strange idea that disallowing people from entering your tourneys is a good form of vengeance

you go girl



what's next on the agenda for studstill's absurd beliefs? that yoshi is a joke of a character? or, you know, we could just watch his sets with sheer and explain why he's making poor decisions 95% of the time

can someone ban this creep yet? talk about strange ideas, making a twitter account with quotes that arent even funny sounds like a good idea to you huh? ur a douche online and most likely you are one in real life, you cant possibly have any friends that actually care about you. you're just an arrogant prick who has built up a delusional bias against someone who has never done anything to you. enjoy ur 2 person cancer chat on skype, everyone left because they realized how big a loser u are.

 

[MasterSplinter]

Now everyone, let's hold hands and sing Kum-by-yah around a campfire...

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

Why dont we just compromize and call it mathority. Its half math, half priority

Math + Priority, = math-ority

But we can let studstill pronounce it ma'thority with is southern accent. "Everyone is wrong cause ma'thority"

Full charge samus shot has higher mathority than other moves

 

[caneut]

that video would have been much better with obnoxious dubstep at the end

can someone ban this creep yet? talk about strange ideas, making a twitter account with quotes that arent even funny sounds like a good idea to you huh? ur a douche online and most likely you are one in real life, you cant possibly have any friends that actually care about you. you're just an arrogant prick who has built up a delusional bias against someone who has never done anything to you. enjoy ur 2 person cancer chat on skype, everyone left because they realized how big a loser u are.

If asking to have someone banned in a public thread is not bashing, I don't know what is. Nobody said the quotes where funny or not, but they are you're quotes. You tell people to kill themselves yet others are douches.

Gavin, can we please have a friendly game?

 

[NovaSmash]

didnt u just make a thread to ban me from hosting tourneys u dumbass hypocrite. and y do u want to play me so bad, i rarely even play anymore, go bother someone else who cares. u wait for me to come on the server so u can call me scared and insult me, yea ur a douche.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

Uh nova / cobr stop flaming please. Do all flaming elsewhere

 

[caneut]

didnt u just make a thread to ban me from hosting tourneys u ******* hypocrite. and y do u want to play me so bad, i rarely even play anymore, go bother someone else who cares. u wait for me to come on the server so u can call me scared and insult me, yea ur a douche.

no I forgot about that thread but I was just asking for some friendlies.

 

[Fireblaster]

Does no one care that the video is total gibberish? Sangoku/hipstur/aussie. Seriously starting to think you all don`t know anything, other than how to hit buttons. It`s sad that the allegedly skilled members of this 'community' don`t actually know how the game works, especially since these things are FACTUAL and not MY OPINION.

This is a side little thing and kind of irrelevant to this discussion, but let me give you a little tip. It's usually not a good idea to insult and trash talk a lot of people in a community when pretty much most, if not all, of the people you trash talk are actually better than you and beat you consistently. Everyone you're arguing with is a moron or an imbecile who doesn't know how the game works? Well, you're losing in smash to morons and imbeciles who don't know how the game works then. And that's something silly I'd want to avoid saying.

NO. WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU BASING THAT ON? HOW YOU **FEEL**?

No, it's based on the two moves looking very similar, having played with both characters quite a bit, and studying their hitboxes.

And this claim that the htiboxes are 'identical' is ridiculous, have you actually looked at the hitboxes?
Luigi`s move is one frame longer, as is the hitbox duration, there are multiple differences in size of the hitbox(es, there are 4), and they are in different positions for these two moves, in fact for all moves.

The word I probably should have used was "similar". I just looked up the definition of "identical" and I did not know that it literally meant "exactly the same". That was never the purpose of my statement and I never wanted to imply that. But the hitboxes are definitely similar.

Video proves my point, if it proves anything at all. Actually, I`m having trouble pulling a point out of that at all. How does that disprove
"There is no priority: Get any hitbox into a hurtbox and success! (hurtbox /=/ invincible hurtbox)"

These are the first four frames of Mario and Luigi's upB being displayed in hitbox mode.

Frame|Mario|Luigi
1|

|

2|

|

3|

|

4|

|

Mario's hitboxes are not only bigger and more disjointed, but he also stays invincible longer than Luigi. If the video proves your point, then while looking at these hitboxes, explain to me why luigi's upB always beat mario's upB using your rules. Your rules, which you said yourself, I'll remind you of:

SOMEONE MAKE $$$ BY PROVING EITHER OF THESE STATEMENTS WRONG.
1: (20$) There is no priority: Get any hitbox into a hurtbox and success! (hurtbox /=/ invincible hurtbox)
2: (1 trillion) Clanking/priority I feel are not terms that apply to SSB64.

When a hitbox touches a hurtbox the move connects and the damage and knockback factors are aplied to the player. If two hitboxes hit each other, one of two things can happen: both moves can connect, each dealing its damage and knockback or they can cancel, if on the ground and within a certain percent of damage

If using these statements you cannot explain why luigi's upB kept beating mario's up, then you owe me $20. If you say another rule or add on to the existing rule you have, then you admit that you're wrong and you still owe me $20.

I'll accept check or cash at zenith. Maybe paypal if you want to get it over with before then.

TO BE CLEAR, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING IS HAPPENING? THE VIDEO STARTS A DANCE PARTY AS IF SOME POINT HAD BEEN MADE, BUT NO CLUE AS TO WHAT THAT IS.

 

[Studstill]

First off, I specifically said:
invincible hurtbox /=/ hurtbox
So you pick one of the few moves with invincible frames? Nay, two of them?
Anyway, answer the Pm, Steve and I have taken this off SB, perhaps it will return.

 

[Cobrevolution]

you apparently ignored the part where the hurtboxes no longer have invincibility. nice going

 

[mixa]

Huh, I had the wrong idea about how priority works in the case of a move dealing 10% (edited for accuracy) or more than its countermove.
I thought that when the winning move's hitbox touches the losing move's hitbox, it would work as if the countermove wasn't there to begin with. I had that idea because pretty much all the time a move wins over another, the following hitbox is the same as the previous one, but as we can see with Luigi, the firepunch didn't connect, the 2nd hitbox frame did.

THE CLANK FRAME




This is so weird:

Mario is on the right. It seems that by moving the characters closer to each other inch by inch, eventually Mario's up-B would outrange Luigi's: Mario's hitbox is almost connecting to Luigi's head, and Luigi's hitbox is far from touching Mario.
So does this mean that hitbox interaction on the ground isn't as simple as we thought or

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

Having an invincible hurtbox during a move just means that that move has extremely high priority

And studstill,

mario is the invincible one, shouldn't he have higher priority? what makes luigi's move have more priority than the move with invincible frames? Is it because luigi's up b does 8% more damage? In the video it only does 1% to mario. So does mario's up b do -7% damage?

The fact is in a normal match, when you cant see hitboxes and hurtboxes, if a mario and luigi up b eachother at the same frame, luigi does 1% to mario. According to your psudeocode, the 1% and mario's ~3% should clank.

 

[caneut]

Let me ask this. If we knew exactly how the system for which attacks hitting or not hitting, what would that help? Wouldn't make you better at the game, I'm still just going to aim for hitting more and getting hit less like Isai said, people will be just better or worse at doing this with/without knowing how the system of how it works.

 

[Fireblaster]

First off, I specifically said:
invincible hurtbox /=/ hurtbox
So you pick one of the few moves with invincible frames? Nay, two of them?

Go back and look at the table of images I posted. Now notice how mario's hitboxes are bigger and how mario just stays invincible on frames 3 and 4 while luigi doesn't. Knowing this information, tell me how luigi's upB hits mario when mario is invincible and luigi isn't invincible.

 

[pidgezero_one]

what the hell happened in this thread

 

[Studstill]

I think the way you talk is grating, I can`t put my finger on why. Perhaps its demanding that I explain your unsupported, ludicrous conclusions. Or the fact that you chose an example I clearly stated to avoid. Either way, it`s really hard to talk to people that just state gibberish as if it were evident truth, as something so obvious that people who don`t agree should be mocked on site.

Go back and look at the table of images I posted. Now notice how mario's hitboxes are bigger and how mario just stays invincible on frames 3 and 4 while luigi doesn't. Knowing this information, tell me how luigi's upB hits mario when mario is invincible and luigi isn't invincible.

I have no idea what you are talking about. It isn`t because I don`t "know frame information, or need to look at it again," it`s because you say things like:
"tell me how luigi's upB hits mario when mario is invincible"

 

[Fireblaster]

I think the way you talk is grating, I can`t put my finger on why. Perhaps its demanding that I explain your unsupported, ludicrous conclusions.

unsupported, ludicrous conclusions? You mean the ones where I have direct evidence in the form of gameplay footage and hitbox data? You must have crazy high standards for evidence if you think the game itself isn't good enough to support arguments.

Either way, it`s really hard to talk to people that just state gibberish as if it were evident truth, as something so obvious that people who don`t agree should be mocked on site.

All I'm asking for is that you explain to me why Luigi's upB beats Mario's upB when they're close to each other. If you think this is gibberish, then English might not be your first language. I mean, you do seem to fail at answering any form of this very simple question.

I have no idea what you are talking about. It isn`t because I don`t "know frame information, or need to look at it again," it`s because you say things like:
"tell me how luigi's upB hits mario when mario is invincible"

It seems the current form of communication has failed and we must break it down even further. So let's just take this step by step in terms of the game's mechanics (refer to the table I made before):

frame 0 (not shown): Both mario and luigi are in a neutral state (not doing anything). Both of them press upB
frame 1: The upB begins for both characters. There are no hitboxes yet but both characters clearly begin their attack animation
frame 2: Both Luigi and Mario get blue hurtboxes (invincible). Both of them also gain hitboxes for their attacks but clearly cannot hit each other because of them are invincible so no collision can happen
frame 3: Luigi is no longer invincible but Mario still is. Since both characters are up close to each other, Mario cannot get hit in his invincibility, but Luigi is fully capable of getting hit by Mario's upB (since Luigi is no longer blue).

This is simply following your logic regarding hitboxes and attack interaction. Tell me what exactly happens that causes mario to get hit by luigi.

PS: If you fail at answering this question or brush it off as "gibberish" or figure out some way to completely avoid it, then you still owe me $20.

 

[Cobrevolution]

Perhaps its demanding that I explain your unsupported, ludicrous conclusions

remember that time i asked you to explain your own unsupported, ludicrous conclusions in the form of a few threads or posts

 

[SheerMadness]

Stud is easily the most bullheaded member of our community.

 

[caneut]

Stud is easily the most bullheaded member of our community.

inb4 infraction

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

Stud is easily the most bullheaded member of our community.

I still don't understand why he can't comprehend that,

when two hitboxes collide, one is blessed with an advantage over another because it does 10% more damage
​

Does not fit in with the definition of the word priority. I can literally replace the prhase "blessed with an advantage" with "one has priority" and the meaning does not change at all.

I used to think priority wasn't a thing until I learned about the priority rule. Maybe some people have issues with abstract thought and assigning generally accepted words to concepts/actions that fit well with the definitions of the words

 

[Studstill]

It doesn`t fit well and I never said "blessed" blah blah blah

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

It doesn`t fit well

Pick a SINGLE word that fits better. You can use "Mathority" if you want.

I never said "blessed"

That wasn't a direct quote. That was a sentence in the english language that describes a subset of hitbox interaction that is perfectly valid and everyone understands its meaning, and so do you. I coulda said the one move beats the other, one move wins because, one move has priority over, ETC. They are all synonymous. Do you know what a synonym is?

blah blah blah

This perfectly describes all of your "reasoning". I wonder if there is a better word than reasoning, maybe delusioning?

 

[Studstill]

Ahem.
"Timing."
Thank you.
Wait, can you define the "priority rule" in a coherent way? You reference learning it above?
Please enlighten all of us to this hidden knowledge youa ll keep referencing with priority.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

Ahem.
"Timing."
Thank you.
Wait, can you define the "priority rule" in a coherent way? You reference learning it above?
Please enlighten all of us to this hidden knowledge youa ll keep referencing with priority.

Wait, you are saying that

(1) when two hitboxes collide, one is blessed with an advantage over another because it does 10% more damage

implies

(2) one move had better timing than the other​

Lol wow you continue to amaze me

Here let me spell it out for you:
Priority example.
Two hitboxes connect. Hitbox A does 10% more damage than hitbox B. Hitbox A is given precedence over hitbox B.

Precedence ~ pre- (before) ~ prior ~ priority
Just in case you never had to study greek and latin roots lolz. Since they are synonyms I can replace those words and the sentence still has the same meaning.

Also, "timing" is dumb because somtimes competing moves come out at the same time. And when they do one outcome can be that the move with higher priority wins. Which has higer priority? Well, if one hitbox comes out prior to the other one, we can also say that move has priority. If both hitboxes come out at the same time, and one does 10% more damage, then that stronger move has priority.

 

[caneut]

why do you guys care if studstill is wrong? let him be wrong

 

[Fireblaster]

why do you guys care if studstill is wrong? let him be wrong

He said he would give $20 to whoever proved him wrong and I still don't have my $20

 

[Studstill]

It`s not about proving me wrong. It`s about proving statement 1 wrong. Which you haven`t done.
At all.

There is no priority: Get any hitbox into a hurtbox and success! (hurtbox /=/ invincible hurtbox)

You then posted about a situation that involves not one but 2 moves with invincibility.
Further you keep demanding that I define YOUR 'priority'.

 

[Cobrevolution]

It`s not about proving me wrong. It`s about proving statement 1 wrong. Which you haven`t done.
At all.

You then posted about a situation that involves not one but 2 moves with invincibility.
Further you keep demanding that I define YOUR 'priority'.

1. first and foremost, you must develop some kind of skill before commenting on anything else.
2. in the unlikely event that happens, you should create a thread illustrating why hyrule is a good stage and why it should be tourney legal.
3. do the same for sector z.
4. explain why using words like priority is sloppy or incorrect, and how a community (that is familiar with the terms) using them is a problem.
5. explain your absurd techniques, ie why is the rock a good move, why is upb good to use, why is rolling good, etc. apparently, all the times you are punished are not enough to educate you, so you must have some sort of reasoning behind still performing actions that lead to you losing.
6. why are your thoughts and reasons for things more valid than others'? prior to entering the community, you never played anyone remotely talented. please explain how the people you have played in the past can be considered good players.
7. lastly, please make a list of players who you believe yourself to be better than. or, if it's easier, make a list of players who you believe to be better than you. this list will then be open for polite discussion and debate.

still waiting

 

[Studstill]

@ W WOTG
Status is for people
as
Priority is for moves
They understand it man.

 

[Cobrevolution]

if you and wotg are on the same page, you have literally lost any small amount of credibility you have.

you can edit his book

lmfaoooooooooooooooooo

but in the meantime, really, 1-7 please

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

It`s not about proving me wrong. It`s about proving statement 1 wrong. Which you haven`t done.
At all.

There is no priority: Get any hitbox into a hurtbox and success! (hurtbox /=/ invincible hurtbox)

You then posted about a situation that involves not one but 2 moves with invincibility.
Further you keep demanding that I define YOUR 'priority'.

The "There is no priority" part has been proven wrong. 10% difference in hitbox damage means a one hitbox will have higher priority. Maybe you forgot to read this post: http://smashboards.com/threads/collections-of-cognitive-dissonance.357292/page-5#post-17013206


Studstill,
If I asked you, "Is there priority in SSB64?", would your answer to that question be the same as the answer to this question?

 

[Cobrevolution]

update on studstill's skill level:

still bad

does not realize his roll left-roll right technique is easily punished via tech chase, grab, jab, charge shot, etc.
cannot DI and thus is susceptible to being placed in unfavorable positions when opponent recovers/drops combo.
still spaces with run away upbs with kirby.
jump 2-4 times with kirby in anticipation of rock; gets edgeguard 5% of time.
fsmashes repeatedly as a tech chase option; may work against casuals, but does not realize it gets punished often

as a result, i can only conclude that, despite people telling him ad nauseum that these are bad habits and he should change up his game, he refuses to listen and will therefore be stuck in a rut for a long time.

in summary, stud, you still have a long way to go before you're good, so i mean...

still think you should make that list of who you think you're better than/worse than. would make my ****in month.

edit: apparently "he was letting me beat him." that is the #1 scrub excuse. henceforth, he shall be known as scrubstill.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

stillscrub works too

 

[Fireblaster]

It`s not about proving me wrong. It`s about proving statement 1 wrong. Which you haven`t done.
At all.

You then posted about a situation that involves not one but 2 moves with invincibility.
Further you keep demanding that I define YOUR 'priority'.

Fox's jab hitbox comes out on the 3rd frame. Falcon's upsmash hitbox comes out on the 4th frame. To make these hitboxes come out at the same time I make falcon initiate his upsmash one frame before fox begins his jab. Fox is far enough away from falcon so that only the hitboxes collide and no hurtboxes overlap with hitboxes.

Frame 0 is where both characters are in their neutral states doing nothing. Falcon begins his upsmash on frame 1 and fox begins his jab on frame 2 to compensate for, once again, fox's jab coming out one frame faster.

Frame|Hitboxes
0|

1|

2|

3|

4|

5|

6|

7|

8|

9|

10|

11|

GIF|

Remember that statement you made about mechanics regarding hitboxes?

"When a hitbox touches a hurtbox the move connects and the damage and knockback factors are aplied to the player. If two hitboxes hit each other, one of two things can happen: both moves can connect, each dealing its damage and knockback or they can cancel, if on the ground and within a certain percent of damage."

As we can see here, neither character takes damage or gets hit. However, only fox's jab seems to get cancelled while Falcon's Upsmash just continues like nothing happened. It sure is strange that this isn't covered by the game mechanics that you describe, huh?

But there's yet ANOTHER scenario that doesn't follow your rules. This time we move fox a bit closer to falcon so that fox's jab can hit falcon and falcon's upsmash can hit fox in the same frame.

Frame|Hitboxes
0|

1|

2|

3|

4|

5|

6|

7|

8|

9|

10|

11|

GIF|

Woah! Even though we know both attacks are coming out in the same frame, falcon seems to gain the upper hand. The odd part is that on frame 4 we don't even see fox's jab hitbox come out, even though you can still see a clank bubble in the second example. It's almost as if falcon's upsmash has PRIORITY over fox's jab and is calculated first so that it hits fox before his attack even has a chance to come out!

This little scenario can create two different results that prove your statement about hitboxes wrong. It can cause just one move to cancel while the other is unaffected or it makes it so only on person got hit even though attacks were supposed to hit at the same time.

I seriously hope you don't forget to bring my money to zenith

 

[WOTG]

Uh, I don't know what Studstill is talking about, but you guys can keep my name out this thread, thanks. Cobr is obviously just some judgmental immature **** who hasn't encountered many people in his life. Dude thinks that anyone who isn't like him is crazy or bad. I never encountered someone in all my life that is so full of themselves like he is.

 

[rjgbadger]

very well said wotg, but let's stay on topic here

 

[Cobrevolution]

wotg, you hear ****ing voices constantly, and take lots of meds to keep your crazy under control. your alpha jeans nonsense is a running joke. i don't think people are crazy if they're different. i think they're crazy if they hear a slew of voices in their head that aren't their own.

still waiting on studstill to make a list of people he's better than/worse than, as well as for him to answer fireblaster.

 

[WOTG]

LOL this guy is so ****in evil, holy ****. You are the ****tiest person I've ever encountered, you deserve an ass whooping, actually literally deserve to be shot. You don't know me at all playa. I never say **** to you, never done anything to you, and even tried to be cool with you when I first encountered you on here, but you have some sort of weird agenda against me it's pathetic. I'm done with this guy, anyone that wants to be friends with THAT^ guy, deserves those kinds of friends.

 

[clubbadubba]

Fireblaster has worked so hard for that money lol. And imo he's earned it. Studstill you had some theories about hitboxes without having in depth frame data knowledge, which is fine. Doesn't seem like they were horrible theories on a surface level. But once people present counter-examples to your theories its pretty irrational to continue to defend them. Pay the man, he put in good work.

Han Solo is crying somewhere after seeing those fox/falcon frames