Cobrevolution
Smash Master
fake smash should not be the basis for any bets or determining factors of skill
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Collections of Cognitive Dissonance
- Thread starter Herbert Von Karajan
- Start date
- Status
clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
wowwwww what did I just skim?
Herbert Von Karajan
Smash Lord
all the studstill related stuff that happened when you were away lol
priority exists. example: pink samus has higher priority
black samus is only good in the japanese version
orange samus is only good if the player who's playing her is a salty samus main
left samus wins, because it's her gravity suit. right samus' varia suit is just more resitant against high temperature if you take super metroid as reference. =D It's the latest metroid game before ssb came out
Hrmm. Wouldn`t it be a better idea to just delete blatant insults? Instead of just having a warning label put on it? I don`t think it has the intended effect. Unless the intended effect was nothing. And further, why the **** is that a warning? How badly do you have to disparage someone, adding nothing to the conversation, before you actually get a watered down infraction?
rjgbadger
Banned via Warnings
they have a block button for a reason
Herbert Von Karajan
Smash Lord
warnings are infractions
Sangoku pls this adds nothing to the conversation pls infarct upon his ass.
Sangoku
Smash Master
I'm going to lock the thread if it keeps going on this way. And yeah, by warning, it means both infractions or warnings. It doesn't make a difference.
WOW. I just read the edited version of this OP. I have yet to see anyone refute any thing in those spoilers. You seem to be intentionally misunderstanding me in order to make me look foolish. I don`t know why it bothers you all so much that I don`t use the exact same words you do, because yours are from other games or general fighting game terms and I think they are sloppy to use with SSB64.
To ****ing wit:
SOMEONE MAKE $$$ BY PROVING EITHER OF THESE STATEMENTS WRONG.
1: (20$) There is no priority: Get any hitbox into a hurtbox and success! (hurtbox /=/ invincible hurtbox)
2: (1 trillion) Clanking/priority I feel are not terms that apply to SSB64.
"I don`t think Studstill knows physics?" I don`t think you know how to read. I`m a mechanical ****ing engineer: I meant "momentum" , like you said 'm ****ing v' or 'momentum' = char weight * speed. Please explain how you aren`t a goddamn moron for that second spoiler? Since you don`t know **** all past hitting the buttons, I`ll explain it to you. I never had the frame/hitbox data. I never hacked the game. I never knew there were actual rectangular hitboxes, I knew there were 'invisible' areas around the graphical representation of the hit that generated what I called contact points (the little starbursts). Impossible for me to know there were weak/strong hitboxes, or even multiple overlapping ones for some moves. So in my view of it, the character`s momentum, or more accurately, the knockback was varied by the internal speed of the move * specific move . The fact that most moves are moving "quickest" during the initial hitbox period combined with the tendency of most moves to have overlapping or strong hitboxes during this same period of time led me to think that there was a momentum component.
THIS CAUSALITY IS WRONG. THE OBSERVATIONS AND RESULTS ARE CORRECT.
You just enjoy making others or me specifically look foolish, which is a ****ing sickness.This is especially highlighted in the next few statements:
"AFAIK: A hitbox is a hitbox; has certain size, damage, and base knockback attributes depending on what move it came from, but doesn`t interact differently if it's a special move or aerial or smash that generated it. Again, I do not believe that hitboxes are different re: move they came from."
If I hit you with an apple, or throw an apple at you, it doesn`t matter if one apple is larger, or I throw it harder, the apples are the same, just with different sizes, based on the different physics due to size.
This was pulled out of the priority context; I was making the point that there are not 2-4 classes or types of moves, which in other games systems is described as priority. When characters on on the ground, doing a move, there are far less variables. This can make it seem to the casual observer (or gibbering 2 year player) to be a different "type" of move (ground vs. aerial). Saying that the aerials and ground moves have different properties is at best a lazy way to define them, and at worst TOTALLY INCORRECT.
When performing a ground move:
0 Character movement (apart from the internal movement of the attack, Kirbs fsmash for example)
Fixed hitbox location/angle (The character can be in motion while performing an aerial move, making a perfect hitbox to hitbox connection very difficult to calculate, so the aerials are set to a 'Sakurai offset' of sorts that causes them to always connect, not cancel. Again, this doesn`t mean the hitboxes of aerials are different, as the hitboxes from DK Down B also have this attribute.)
This causes the moves to cancel each other sometimes, as these attributes being zeroed out allows for a more easily calculable interaction, game dev wise. This is not a SPECIAL CHARACTERISTIC of any move, just the different ways the game runs the math on ALL MOVES. Same math, same hitboxes. The hitboxes are the important metric for determining this, and that changes during the move in location and size, which means that move vs. move comparison is at best again, sloppy, and at worst TOTALLY INCORRECT.
You then attached the following bull**** to my words:
Note: He either means that hitboxes are constant depending on whether or not they start in the ground or in the air (false, see DK upb) or he might be saying that all hitboxes behave the same way, which is also wrong (see fox laser) OK so he is saying hitboxes all behave the same, so its still wrong.
On the first part of these gibberish you wrote to make me look stupid: This doesn`t even make sense. The fact that the almost all special moves (being the only moves able to be performed both in the air and on the ground) operate slightly differently depending on if THE MOVE was done while on the ground or in the air HAS NOTHING TO DO with the hitbox properties. Again, this is all from the priority convo, so if this still doesn`t make sense it`s because you are trying to create classes of moves in order to have your precious ****ing priority, and the fact that a single move can be different (length, hitbox location, etc) whether or not it is done in the air/ground doesn`t change anything about how the interaction with another hitbox is calculated. On the second part: As with any almost any system, there are exceptions, and Fox Laser is one of them. This move generates a unique hitbox, that doesn`t interact with anything except hurtboxes and shields.
On the last bit:
"This game has no combos. You can string together moves, sure, but it isn`t like other fighting games, or other games at all and I don`t understand the comparison. No other game has the freedom of movement that 64 does, even with 3D."
This is clearly my opinion, and my definition of the word combo is based around how I think about the game. We don`t agree, on thoughts about Smash strategy, so just let me be if I want to think of combos how I want or make wild claims about how awesome Smash 64 is.
In closing, I thought you had legitimate beefs with my thoughts on the game, and that this thread was a all-in-good-fun way for us to have the debate publicly, as I enjoy being correct, and allowing for the possibility that I am not is a deeply held belief. But there aren`t any arguments against my points. Nothing to refute them, in fact, you`ve made it clear that apart from playing the game well, you have a childlike understanding of game programming or virtual physics.
In fact, I`m correct on every single thing on the OP, with the exception of the clearly opinion last one.
I`ll take my apology in public writing, please. Or still, if anyone else wants to argue the above clarified points, take your best shot. Until then, please stop intentionally misunderstanding me because I learned the game on my own, and don`t use the same jargon/lingo you do. Seriously, upon re-reading the OP, I`m shocked at how NOT wrong or cognitively dissonant my views are.
To ****ing wit:
SOMEONE MAKE $$$ BY PROVING EITHER OF THESE STATEMENTS WRONG.
1: (20$) There is no priority: Get any hitbox into a hurtbox and success! (hurtbox /=/ invincible hurtbox)
2: (1 trillion) Clanking/priority I feel are not terms that apply to SSB64.
"I don`t think Studstill knows physics?" I don`t think you know how to read. I`m a mechanical ****ing engineer: I meant "momentum" , like you said 'm ****ing v' or 'momentum' = char weight * speed. Please explain how you aren`t a goddamn moron for that second spoiler? Since you don`t know **** all past hitting the buttons, I`ll explain it to you. I never had the frame/hitbox data. I never hacked the game. I never knew there were actual rectangular hitboxes, I knew there were 'invisible' areas around the graphical representation of the hit that generated what I called contact points (the little starbursts). Impossible for me to know there were weak/strong hitboxes, or even multiple overlapping ones for some moves. So in my view of it, the character`s momentum, or more accurately, the knockback was varied by the internal speed of the move * specific move . The fact that most moves are moving "quickest" during the initial hitbox period combined with the tendency of most moves to have overlapping or strong hitboxes during this same period of time led me to think that there was a momentum component.
THIS CAUSALITY IS WRONG. THE OBSERVATIONS AND RESULTS ARE CORRECT.
You just enjoy making others or me specifically look foolish, which is a ****ing sickness.This is especially highlighted in the next few statements:
"AFAIK: A hitbox is a hitbox; has certain size, damage, and base knockback attributes depending on what move it came from, but doesn`t interact differently if it's a special move or aerial or smash that generated it. Again, I do not believe that hitboxes are different re: move they came from."
If I hit you with an apple, or throw an apple at you, it doesn`t matter if one apple is larger, or I throw it harder, the apples are the same, just with different sizes, based on the different physics due to size.
This was pulled out of the priority context; I was making the point that there are not 2-4 classes or types of moves, which in other games systems is described as priority. When characters on on the ground, doing a move, there are far less variables. This can make it seem to the casual observer (or gibbering 2 year player) to be a different "type" of move (ground vs. aerial). Saying that the aerials and ground moves have different properties is at best a lazy way to define them, and at worst TOTALLY INCORRECT.
When performing a ground move:
0 Character movement (apart from the internal movement of the attack, Kirbs fsmash for example)
Fixed hitbox location/angle (The character can be in motion while performing an aerial move, making a perfect hitbox to hitbox connection very difficult to calculate, so the aerials are set to a 'Sakurai offset' of sorts that causes them to always connect, not cancel. Again, this doesn`t mean the hitboxes of aerials are different, as the hitboxes from DK Down B also have this attribute.)
This causes the moves to cancel each other sometimes, as these attributes being zeroed out allows for a more easily calculable interaction, game dev wise. This is not a SPECIAL CHARACTERISTIC of any move, just the different ways the game runs the math on ALL MOVES. Same math, same hitboxes. The hitboxes are the important metric for determining this, and that changes during the move in location and size, which means that move vs. move comparison is at best again, sloppy, and at worst TOTALLY INCORRECT.
You then attached the following bull**** to my words:
Note: He either means that hitboxes are constant depending on whether or not they start in the ground or in the air (false, see DK upb) or he might be saying that all hitboxes behave the same way, which is also wrong (see fox laser) OK so he is saying hitboxes all behave the same, so its still wrong.
On the first part of these gibberish you wrote to make me look stupid: This doesn`t even make sense. The fact that the almost all special moves (being the only moves able to be performed both in the air and on the ground) operate slightly differently depending on if THE MOVE was done while on the ground or in the air HAS NOTHING TO DO with the hitbox properties. Again, this is all from the priority convo, so if this still doesn`t make sense it`s because you are trying to create classes of moves in order to have your precious ****ing priority, and the fact that a single move can be different (length, hitbox location, etc) whether or not it is done in the air/ground doesn`t change anything about how the interaction with another hitbox is calculated. On the second part: As with any almost any system, there are exceptions, and Fox Laser is one of them. This move generates a unique hitbox, that doesn`t interact with anything except hurtboxes and shields.
On the last bit:
"This game has no combos. You can string together moves, sure, but it isn`t like other fighting games, or other games at all and I don`t understand the comparison. No other game has the freedom of movement that 64 does, even with 3D."
This is clearly my opinion, and my definition of the word combo is based around how I think about the game. We don`t agree, on thoughts about Smash strategy, so just let me be if I want to think of combos how I want or make wild claims about how awesome Smash 64 is.
In closing, I thought you had legitimate beefs with my thoughts on the game, and that this thread was a all-in-good-fun way for us to have the debate publicly, as I enjoy being correct, and allowing for the possibility that I am not is a deeply held belief. But there aren`t any arguments against my points. Nothing to refute them, in fact, you`ve made it clear that apart from playing the game well, you have a childlike understanding of game programming or virtual physics.
In fact, I`m correct on every single thing on the OP, with the exception of the clearly opinion last one.
I`ll take my apology in public writing, please. Or still, if anyone else wants to argue the above clarified points, take your best shot. Until then, please stop intentionally misunderstanding me because I learned the game on my own, and don`t use the same jargon/lingo you do. Seriously, upon re-reading the OP, I`m shocked at how NOT wrong or cognitively dissonant my views are.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
you said samus can turn back time with her upb.
Yes. I did. And if you listen to the sounds, and or you can see it, the upB`s invincibility frame allows for instant blocking or even cancelling of hits that have already connected. Compared to the other moves inability to do this, I referred to it yes as 'turning back time'. See how if you take what I say and don`t purposefully take it out of context, it ends up being correct. Again, feel free to apologize for the cognitive dissonance betwixt "Cobr and Steve know what they are talking about," as you all keep stating, and the apparent fact that you know nothing about the game past simply hitting the buttons.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
they haven't connected.
Herbert Von Karajan
Smash Lord
I think some people are going to take you up on dat free moneys
This is why this is called the cognitive dissonance thread. You cant use words like ALL and TOTALLY and then right after say there are exceptions. rofl
You had explictily said that yoshi's super armor could be beaten if a move had enough momentum. So like, if a kirby did a fast fall before a back air or used rock since it moves so fast. This is false. I dont know why you still think it works that way. I updated the quote to contain the rest of what you said. It is possible to break yoshis super armour in the first few frames with many moves, but it has nothing to do with momentum
If this was true, that would be pure unadulterated evidence that priority exists. I'll take the money now until you admit that this is not how the up b works. COGNITIVE DISSONANCE strikes once again
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Cobrevolution
Smash Master
gonna post this here because apparently this is the best thread to address studstill idiocy
![]()
basically, if he hosted an event in person (christ forbid), and someone criticized the way he ran it (ie i brought up saffron or something in the teams tourney, which never happened, and he flipped out...which was also very amusing) he'd DQ them. pretty idiotic, in my opinion, but that is purely my opinion. i would never prevent gav from competing in a tourney i hosted if i hated him, and i'm considering just having one and getting a 5 dollar amazon gift card for whoever wins. but we'll see how that goes.
let it also be know that, last summer (iirc) he said that he'd be paying out for a certain tourney (out of pocket) and then changed his mind last minute (once the matches had been occurring) and refused to pay. he is perfectly entitled and nobody deserves his money, but that's an example of "how to be a bad TO."
at this point, i am going to ask you to give up on priority and the like. aerials either beat or trade other aerials. they do not clank. ground moves either beat, trade, or clank other ground moves. ground moves either beat or trade aerials. they do not clank. these things have been discussed ad nauseum, and i am not going to entertain the discussion anymore.
i will, however, address this
if samus were being hit, she would be in hitstun and unable to upb. she - rather, the player - is able to time the upb so that it will parry the hitbox of an opposing attack.
if the moves connect, then it is impossible to input the upb. because of hitstun. yoshi's parry is similar - you must input z 4 (?) frames before being hit.
so you're not turning back time at all, or reversing any kind of damage or knockback. you're literally reacting directly before you're getting hit.
now, if i'm wrong on this, by all means, someone tell me. although it's not something i'm terribly concerned with - i know there are 3 instead of 11 and i know the timings to parry a lot of stuf. i could be horrendously wrong or totally correct and nothing's gonna change.
yes, a public record. that is, 99% of the tweets are quotes from gav - the only ones that aren't are when i say something like, "someone thinks this account is fake?" there are not many of those tweets. and it is not harassment of him - after all, i'm merely reiterating his own statements.
gav hosts tourneys, yes, but he's not a great TO. tourneys routinely take many weeks, and there's a weird mix of dq and substitution that goes on. he also will not allow certain people to play, based purely on how they've spoken to him. i am included in this - not that i care, i just find it amusing that he would disallow me from being in a tourney he's hosting (of which there's no cash reward, btw; if there were, i could understand if he didn't want to pay me should i win, or something), and cane too.
basically, if he hosted an event in person (christ forbid), and someone criticized the way he ran it (ie i brought up saffron or something in the teams tourney, which never happened, and he flipped out...which was also very amusing) he'd DQ them. pretty idiotic, in my opinion, but that is purely my opinion. i would never prevent gav from competing in a tourney i hosted if i hated him, and i'm considering just having one and getting a 5 dollar amazon gift card for whoever wins. but we'll see how that goes.
let it also be know that, last summer (iirc) he said that he'd be paying out for a certain tourney (out of pocket) and then changed his mind last minute (once the matches had been occurring) and refused to pay. he is perfectly entitled and nobody deserves his money, but that's an example of "how to be a bad TO."
well this is a dumb statement. you believe i was? or i was? this has been public knowledge for quite some time now.
no. you can ask tommy if you'd like, but i had nothing to do with that, and there was 0 encouragement from me at all. i merely cracked up because it came out of left field and was absolutely hilarious. it was on ECSSB. at least get your facts straight if you're going to try to accuse me of absurd stuff. thank you.
i would like to take this time to welcome you to the internet, a place where nobody really cares about anything, or people care entirely too much. gav has quit the game and the community numerous times and keeps returning. the fact that he does not improve his attitude, social skills, or way he talks to people is out of my/our control, and to treat him with respect when he has not done so in return is foolish.
at this point, i am going to ask you to give up on priority and the like. aerials either beat or trade other aerials. they do not clank. ground moves either beat, trade, or clank other ground moves. ground moves either beat or trade aerials. they do not clank. these things have been discussed ad nauseum, and i am not going to entertain the discussion anymore.
i will, however, address this
when you are hit by a move, you receive knockback. you are then in hitstun. you cannot input anything while in hitstun, except DI. once your hitstun wears off, you can input a move on the next frame (or two, considering the first frame would be input delay, whatever).
if samus were being hit, she would be in hitstun and unable to upb. she - rather, the player - is able to time the upb so that it will parry the hitbox of an opposing attack.
if the moves connect, then it is impossible to input the upb. because of hitstun. yoshi's parry is similar - you must input z 4 (?) frames before being hit.
so you're not turning back time at all, or reversing any kind of damage or knockback. you're literally reacting directly before you're getting hit.
now, if i'm wrong on this, by all means, someone tell me. although it's not something i'm terribly concerned with - i know there are 3 instead of 11 and i know the timings to parry a lot of stuf. i could be horrendously wrong or totally correct and nothing's gonna change.
Herbert Von Karajan
Smash Lord
cobr you are right about samus stuff. Lets keep the gav stuff out of here
great news: fireblaster discovered a ninendo official site that explains a ton of stuff totally in depth about smash 64.
INCLUDING HOW CLANKING AND PRIORITY WORKS
It mentions lots of stuff, like how to get maximum vertical or horizontal recovery with some characters, how grabbing out of shield does half damage if you are hit in shield, etc.
great news: fireblaster discovered a ninendo official site that explains a ton of stuff totally in depth about smash 64.
INCLUDING HOW CLANKING AND PRIORITY WORKS
@ S Studstill , you owe fireblaster like, trillions of dollars now
It mentions lots of stuff, like how to get maximum vertical or horizontal recovery with some characters, how grabbing out of shield does half damage if you are hit in shield, etc.
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- Joined
- Jun 27, 2013
- Messages
- 873
Are you sure fireblaster was the first to discover that site? It's been known for a few years at least.
Anyway, Studstill is trying to argue against using certain terms, idk why he cares what people call things. There's no point in repeatedly telling someone to use a different term. One time is enough.
Like he'd ever give out that money :D .
Anyway, Studstill is trying to argue against using certain terms, idk why he cares what people call things. There's no point in repeatedly telling someone to use a different term. One time is enough.
Like he'd ever give out that money :D .
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
i like how #2 is I FEEL THESE TERMS DO NOT APPLY
change the feelings of a stubborn guy who's spent too long inside his own bubble of smash? don't see it happening, but hey
change the feelings of a stubborn guy who's spent too long inside his own bubble of smash? don't see it happening, but hey
NovaSmash
Banned via Administration
cobr has serious mental problems. he couldnt stop talking about me if his life depended on it. Im a bad TO? you are a terrible human being that should stop sitting on the pc writing wall of text about everything i type. honestly no one even likes you. go back to ur skype chat where you, caneut and stranded can sit and jack off to random quotes.
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Cobrevolution
Smash Master
i'll get right on that, gav
gonna go jack off to random quotes, damn i wish i could get some naked pics of a tra--...nvm
anyway gav that was pretty much me explaining the situation to gav, don't really care if you're a good or a bad TO to be honest, you have some strange idea that disallowing people from entering your tourneys is a good form of vengeance
you go girl
what's next on the agenda for studstill's absurd beliefs? that yoshi is a joke of a character? or, you know, we could just watch his sets with sheer and explain why he's making poor decisions 95% of the time
gonna go jack off to random quotes, damn i wish i could get some naked pics of a tra--...nvm
anyway gav that was pretty much me explaining the situation to gav, don't really care if you're a good or a bad TO to be honest, you have some strange idea that disallowing people from entering your tourneys is a good form of vengeance
you go girl
what's next on the agenda for studstill's absurd beliefs? that yoshi is a joke of a character? or, you know, we could just watch his sets with sheer and explain why he's making poor decisions 95% of the time
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rjgbadger
Banned via Warnings
He's rusty and cannot play on delay for his life, don't you remember bro?
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
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asianaussie
Smash Hero
that video would have been much better with obnoxious dubstep at the end
mixa
Banned via Warnings
Sangoku
Smash Master
Don't bring gav in this thread, he has nothing to do with it. I repeat myself, but this thread isn't supposed to bash a person (studstill), but to argue his false statements/beliefs in a centralized place.
Nice video Fireblaster. Well done and hilarious ending.
Nice video Fireblaster. Well done and hilarious ending.
Not quite. When you're hit by a move, the characters are frozen on the first frame of the hit (with the attacked character shaking). That's hitlag and that's when you can input DI. Once the characters start moving again, the attacked char is in hitstun and can't input anything. But you're right about Samus. There's absolutely no such thing as reverting anything. It's just anticipating an attack with a move starting with invincible frames, therefore taking no damage when the opponent hits you.
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rjgbadger
Banned via Warnings
****ing PWNED
Does no one care that the video is total gibberish? Sangoku/hipstur/aussie. Seriously starting to think you all don`t know anything, other than how to hit buttons. It`s sad that the allegedly skilled members of this 'community' don`t actually know how the game works, especially since these things are FACTUAL and not MY OPINION.
NO. WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU BASING THAT ON? HOW YOU **FEEL**?
Video proves my point, if it proves anything at all. Actually, I`m having trouble pulling a point out of that at all. How does that disprove
"There is no priority: Get any hitbox into a hurtbox and success! (hurtbox /=/ invincible hurtbox)"
And this claim that the htiboxes are 'identical' is ridiculous, have you actually looked at the hitboxes?
Luigi`s move is one frame longer, as is the hitbox duration, there are multiple differences in size of the hitbox(es, there are 4), and they are in different positions for these two moves, in fact for all moves.
TO BE CLEAR, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING IS HAPPENING? THE VIDEO STARTS A DANCE PARTY AS IF SOME POINT HAD BEEN MADE, BUT NO CLUE AS TO WHAT THAT IS.
I`m going to a cookout, but I`ll make a TECHNICAL video, with the hitboxes and show you exactly what is happening, since you all would rather have some nonsense and then high-fives.
"aerials either beat or trade other aerials. they do not clank. ground moves either beat, trade, or clank other ground moves. ground moves either beat or trade aerials. they do not clank."
Jesus you ****ing people are pathetic. This sounds like it was written by a child. Keep circle-jerking.
On claim two, since Rob and Karajan are apparently dense, I`m 100% sure that "I feel" that way, so GG on that.
Sangoku: Did I say "reverting"? No.
NO. WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU BASING THAT ON? HOW YOU **FEEL**?
Video proves my point, if it proves anything at all. Actually, I`m having trouble pulling a point out of that at all. How does that disprove
"There is no priority: Get any hitbox into a hurtbox and success! (hurtbox /=/ invincible hurtbox)"
And this claim that the htiboxes are 'identical' is ridiculous, have you actually looked at the hitboxes?
Luigi`s move is one frame longer, as is the hitbox duration, there are multiple differences in size of the hitbox(es, there are 4), and they are in different positions for these two moves, in fact for all moves.
TO BE CLEAR, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING IS HAPPENING? THE VIDEO STARTS A DANCE PARTY AS IF SOME POINT HAD BEEN MADE, BUT NO CLUE AS TO WHAT THAT IS.
I`m going to a cookout, but I`ll make a TECHNICAL video, with the hitboxes and show you exactly what is happening, since you all would rather have some nonsense and then high-fives.
"aerials either beat or trade other aerials. they do not clank. ground moves either beat, trade, or clank other ground moves. ground moves either beat or trade aerials. they do not clank."
Jesus you ****ing people are pathetic. This sounds like it was written by a child. Keep circle-jerking.
On claim two, since Rob and Karajan are apparently dense, I`m 100% sure that "I feel" that way, so GG on that.
Sangoku: Did I say "reverting"? No.
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Herbert Von Karajan
Smash Lord
oh god its so hard to not resort to personal attacks on your intelligence now lol. I'll avoid it for now and just trash talk you whenever we play lol.
luigi and mario do their up b at the EXACT same time
mario in front of luigi. Luigi hurts mario
luigi in front of mario. Luigi hurts mario
OK lets look at the definition of priority from the dictionary
3: something given or meriting attention before competing alternatives
I'll let you try to figure out the rest. Hopefully it wont take 30 years lol
luigi and mario do their up b at the EXACT same time
mario in front of luigi. Luigi hurts mario
luigi in front of mario. Luigi hurts mario
OK lets look at the definition of priority from the dictionary
3: something given or meriting attention before competing alternatives
I'll let you try to figure out the rest. Hopefully it wont take 30 years lol
It disproves the bold part
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Why is this wrong:
When a hitbox touches a hurtbox the move connects and the damage and knockback factors are applied to the player. If two hitboxes hit each other, one of two things can happen: both moves can connect, each dealing its damage and knockback or they can cancel, if on the ground and within a certain percent of damage.
When a hitbox touches a hurtbox the move connects and the damage and knockback factors are applied to the player. If two hitboxes hit each other, one of two things can happen: both moves can connect, each dealing its damage and knockback or they can cancel, if on the ground and within a certain percent of damage.
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Cobrevolution
Smash Master
because there is a third option of one outright beating the other, as is the case in the video.
Sangoku
Smash Master
Studstill, you're slowly starting to get on my nerves, please tone down.
1) I haven't even read half of all the arguments you're involved into and I have never contributed to any side, but apparently you didn't get that, did you? The video simply showed something I didn't know, and I therefore found that nice. I am seriously getting bashed because of that?
2) Did I say you said "revert"? I was talking to cobr as far as I know, not to you. I merely restated what he said correctly and corrected the wrong part.
3) Let me answer your PM here. I won't give you my opinion on all that stuff, because I don't care enough to do so. I also won't contribute to your site, because I believe I did my best with my thread and I don't see the point of having you re-write everything and me correct everything straight behind (as I did for the first parts). So sorry, but it's too much trouble for nothing in my opinion. As I already told you, if you ask my help, you basically ask for the other thread, because I can't provide much more than this. So you're free to copycat what's in there, but if you wish to change the content, don't expect me to make the corrections.
I hope I made myself clear enough so that you stop feeling persecuted.
1) I haven't even read half of all the arguments you're involved into and I have never contributed to any side, but apparently you didn't get that, did you? The video simply showed something I didn't know, and I therefore found that nice. I am seriously getting bashed because of that?
2) Did I say you said "revert"? I was talking to cobr as far as I know, not to you. I merely restated what he said correctly and corrected the wrong part.
3) Let me answer your PM here. I won't give you my opinion on all that stuff, because I don't care enough to do so. I also won't contribute to your site, because I believe I did my best with my thread and I don't see the point of having you re-write everything and me correct everything straight behind (as I did for the first parts). So sorry, but it's too much trouble for nothing in my opinion. As I already told you, if you ask my help, you basically ask for the other thread, because I can't provide much more than this. So you're free to copycat what's in there, but if you wish to change the content, don't expect me to make the corrections.
I hope I made myself clear enough so that you stop feeling persecuted.
Herbert Von Karajan
Smash Lord
These are not the same thing. You keep adding caveats as we demonstrate why you are wrong. "Get any hitbox" became "if on the ground and within a certain percent of damage".
Being sick of this utter ridiculous behavior, I was finally able to get studstill to "define" priority. His entire argument is that priority "as a system" does not describe move interaction in this game. So I made him give me a formal definition, using pseudo-code, of what he meant in the above quote.
I put in bold/green what any other person in the world would call priority. I asked him how he would describe the green section. He said it was "math". I don't know if studstill actually knows how math works, but as a mathematician i can explain it: There are 9 axioms which we agree to be true, and there are a few rules of formal logic that are applied to those 9 laws in order to derive mathematical theorems. Theorems require astronomical amounts of logical operations to derive things which interest us in the math community. For example, the fundamental theorem of calculus requires about a measly 6 million logical operations to derive. But you wont see that formal proof of it in your calculus class. Instead they give names to other theorems and use them as macros for their own formal proofs in order to be able to write a proof in plain english that can fit on a blackboard. The best part is that once we have this proof of the "fundamental theorem of calculus" we can just invoke its name every time we want to describe something with it instead of writing out the full chalkboard proof or the actual 6 million logical operation proof.
So studstill, that green thing that you call "math", which is not a descriptive term (like calling the chalkboard proof of the fundamental theorm of calculus math); everyone else calls priority ( like how people call the chalkboard proof of fundamental theorem of calculus, "the fundamental theorem of calculus"). Priority is a simple concept and easy to describe (and more general than your restricted subset of move interaction which you are describing, for example, aerial moves have priority over ground moves). It is way better to say move X has higher priority than move Y than it is to write that whole green section down and then proving mathematically that, e.g. 36 - 9 > 10.
Which leads me to another note: Studstill also said he would describe the green section as the "+-10 rule". I guess its better than saying "Move X beats move Y because of the math". But for fun I told him that its not actually 10, its 8 in the U, but 10 in the J version. He claimed that he knew that it was 7/8. So I then told him that I lied and it actually is 10. Which he then said 7/8 is close enough to 10 to be considered correct in his mind. So he wants us to describe the green section as it is, as accurately as possible, in order to avoid using the word priority, yet he doesnt even know the exact number that we should use in the plus_minus_x_rule. This is another example of COGNITIVE DISSONANCE
Studstill, I guess the best way to explain this to you is, pretend I hired you and I am now your boss, and we are programming a smash remake. I give you a programming assignment and say to you, "Hey when ground hitboxes connect, I want moves that do 10% more damage to have priority over the others. Otherwise they clank". How would you write that first green section of the code differently?
Steve almost all of your last two post are totally fabricated. I don`t know how you expect me to answer you, while your misquoting or literally just creating things "Studstill said".
I was in the conversation with you.
Sangoku, I didn`t bash you. It seemed that "reverting" was attributed to me, regardless of if you were aware of that.
I was in the conversation with you.
Sangoku, I didn`t bash you. It seemed that "reverting" was attributed to me, regardless of if you were aware of that.
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Sangoku
Smash Master
If that's not bashing to you I don't know what is.
You don't say anything about feeling persecuted, but you act like you have that feeling.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
once again...
it isn't ABSOLUTE AND UTTER INSISTENCE ON CALLING IT PRIORITEHH.
that isn't the issue here.
it's you coming into the community and insisting that the terms the community uses are incorrect and should be changed or altered or abandoned altogether in favor of other phrases that either you made up or nintendo has used. these phrases and definitions have been in place for over a decade, and it is not hard to familiarize oneself with them. it literally takes a week.
it's you coming into the community and outright declaring the rulesets to be bad, that certain players aren't talented, and that you know more than everyone else, that the way things are run is ****ty, etcetcetc.
becoming a broken record, honestly.
here's what you should do:
1. first and foremost, you must develop some kind of skill before commenting on anything else.
2. in the unlikely event that happens, you should create a thread illustrating why hyrule is a good stage and why it should be tourney legal.
3. do the same for sector z.
4. explain why using words like priority is sloppy or incorrect, and how a community (that is familiar with the terms) using them is a problem.
5. explain your absurd techniques, ie why is the rock a good move, why is upb good to use, why is rolling good, etc. apparently, all the times you are punished are not enough to educate you, so you must have some sort of reasoning behind still performing actions that lead to you losing.
6. why are your thoughts and reasons for things more valid than others'? prior to entering the community, you never played anyone remotely talented. please explain how the people you have played in the past can be considered good players.
7. lastly, please make a list of players who you believe yourself to be better than. or, if it's easier, make a list of players who you believe to be better than you. this list will then be open for polite discussion and debate.
it isn't ABSOLUTE AND UTTER INSISTENCE ON CALLING IT PRIORITEHH.
that isn't the issue here.
it's you coming into the community and insisting that the terms the community uses are incorrect and should be changed or altered or abandoned altogether in favor of other phrases that either you made up or nintendo has used. these phrases and definitions have been in place for over a decade, and it is not hard to familiarize oneself with them. it literally takes a week.
it's you coming into the community and outright declaring the rulesets to be bad, that certain players aren't talented, and that you know more than everyone else, that the way things are run is ****ty, etcetcetc.
becoming a broken record, honestly.
here's what you should do:
1. first and foremost, you must develop some kind of skill before commenting on anything else.
2. in the unlikely event that happens, you should create a thread illustrating why hyrule is a good stage and why it should be tourney legal.
3. do the same for sector z.
4. explain why using words like priority is sloppy or incorrect, and how a community (that is familiar with the terms) using them is a problem.
5. explain your absurd techniques, ie why is the rock a good move, why is upb good to use, why is rolling good, etc. apparently, all the times you are punished are not enough to educate you, so you must have some sort of reasoning behind still performing actions that lead to you losing.
6. why are your thoughts and reasons for things more valid than others'? prior to entering the community, you never played anyone remotely talented. please explain how the people you have played in the past can be considered good players.
7. lastly, please make a list of players who you believe yourself to be better than. or, if it's easier, make a list of players who you believe to be better than you. this list will then be open for polite discussion and debate.
Damn, man. You just can`t say anything wihtout sounding like a pretentious douche.
As usual, you act like some kind of oracle, while sounding like a child. Moves are 'good' or 'bad'!? This simplistic view of the game belies the fact that you are terrible at it. Why do the both of you fabricate ****? "Tell us why the rock is a good move?"
What are you Cobr? Bottom 20 of the active players? Sure that`s probably global, but everyone in EU could beat you, and Japan? Even in the US, are you even top 100? Who gives a ****. The developers at nintendo, hell some of them could suck at the game. Doesn`t mean they don`t know how it works.
I never came in and told anyone to do anything, you dumb ****.
It seemed to be fairly established, and honestly, if it weren`t for the fact that HYRULE WAS BANNED, I probably wouldn`t have ever said anything about rules.
But you`re right make one good point. I shouldn`t post on here. It`s not like half of what gets said is about the game.
And "**** you." on 1 and 6.
2 and 5. Stop acting like you`re some kind of senator of smash, you prick. I`m the ONLY ONE who thinks Hyrule is a legal and or great board? Get a ****ing grip. "Absurd techniques" It would be funny if you were remotely joking.
As usual, you act like some kind of oracle, while sounding like a child. Moves are 'good' or 'bad'!? This simplistic view of the game belies the fact that you are terrible at it. Why do the both of you fabricate ****? "Tell us why the rock is a good move?"
What are you Cobr? Bottom 20 of the active players? Sure that`s probably global, but everyone in EU could beat you, and Japan? Even in the US, are you even top 100? Who gives a ****. The developers at nintendo, hell some of them could suck at the game. Doesn`t mean they don`t know how it works.
I never came in and told anyone to do anything, you dumb ****.
It seemed to be fairly established, and honestly, if it weren`t for the fact that HYRULE WAS BANNED, I probably wouldn`t have ever said anything about rules.
But you`re right make one good point. I shouldn`t post on here. It`s not like half of what gets said is about the game.
And "**** you." on 1 and 6.
2 and 5. Stop acting like you`re some kind of senator of smash, you prick. I`m the ONLY ONE who thinks Hyrule is a legal and or great board? Get a ****ing grip. "Absurd techniques" It would be funny if you were remotely joking.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
so just to clarify, are you going to write those threads and that list, or keep flapping? Instead of asking everyone else for their reasons, provide yours. Quite simple really. And before you say something childish like "why don't you"...I'm not the one trying to change anything or prove a large group of people wrong. So please, go on.
MasterSplinter
Smash Cadet
Surprisingly this thread is still going strong although discussion about smash has devolved to blatant trash talk.
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