Cold Shoulders: Ice Climbers Social Thread

[Sharkz]

Correct. You can regrab different characters more than others at the ledge as well, it also depends on %.

Oh, that's interesting! Time to test some stuff out then. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[JosekiTheGreat]

Heyo, heres a little low quality video I made with a little combo I was working on. My roomate and I have been trying different DI options to escape it, but he's had no success getting out. It works against many of the characters in the cast. The fast fallers can escape it at low percents easily, ZZS and Lucas can both get out as well if it isn't executed perfectly. Tell me what y'all think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEl4ZfuOxVw&feature=youtu.be

 

[Hylian]

You can mash out and DI out of that combo at several points.

++points for creativity and trying new things though. Keep doing that, it's how you get good.

 

[nimigoha]

Hylian you'd better look at the video on reddit, we found something potentially game-breaking.

 

[JosekiTheGreat]

Its weird you say that, just because I had my roomate mash jump + DI in a bunch of different ways and he still didn't manage to get out. It was pretty slopily executed/slowly executed in the vid...hmmm. I know the squall hammer turn-around is definitely escapable though. I saw Chu-dat in Melee doing the nana down-air chaingrabs against M2k like it was gurenteed tho as well.

 

[JosekiTheGreat]

http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/2mq3r4/ice_climbers_do_have_a_handoff_infinite_in_35/ For reference.

 

[Hylian]

I'm not sure what you're referencing, could you provide a link? Reddit is a pretty big place.

Edit: I've known about that since before IC's were even put into PM, and it was known in 3.0 as well. I've already replied in the thread, but it's a bug that we can't figure out how to fix as of yet, but will be removed if we do. It's a 1 frame link for each throw, really not worth learning honestly.

Double Edit: The holding up information is giving me more priority to fix this.

 

[nimigoha]

Yeah, if you're good at Fthrow regrabs, this is guaranteed on every character.

As long as I can go dthrow>fthrow>dthrow>fair at the ledge on every character, I don't mind what you change.

 

[Hylian]

Melee hand-offs will be kept, don't worry. I just want them to work as I intended.

 

[Iceman]

Is it really that much of a problem if we have an infinite? It doesn't really make the character OP. Unlike Brawl it seems easier to not get grabbed, and this is pretty close to their situation in Melee. Im not worried about this breaking the meta

 

[Hylian]

Is it really that much of a problem if we have an infinite? It doesn't really make the character OP. Unlike Brawl it seems easier to not get grabbed, and this is pretty close to their situation in Melee. Im not worried about this breaking the meta

It's not a balance concern, it's an issue of design. Infinites in a game setting like this stifle creativity, and lead to polarizing aspects of the character. The meta develops around obtaining a grab and there is nothing wrong with that, but the creativity of the punishes suffer as a result and it leads to less enjoyable gameplay for opponents and for the player themselves in terms of reply value.

 

[JosekiTheGreat]

As it turns out, "Balance Concerns" are just an abstract way of saying what Hylian said. In terms of design, it's seldom relavent to talk about balance, since the real conversation is asking how to foster a play environment in which each player and each character has a wealth of options available to them. If you are able to create such an environment, it is also likely your game is balanced.

Also, it's important to note that in Melee, whether or not wobbling is banned, ICs don't change their place on the tier list. The reason why wobbling is "lame" is that it is the 100% correct and best option in any situation in which you grab your opponent. It's completely linear and creates a play state in which, as ICs if you are interested in playing optimally, Grab -> Wobble is the 100% correct choice in every situation.

 

[Hylian]

Well, go 2nd place in an Iowa tournament going 95% ICs :D. The turnaround glitched killed me several times and made me miss important kills though :/.

 

[nimigoha]

Yeah the turnaround glitch is messing with me when I practice. Hopefully you get it sorted soon!

What was the other 5%? Any reason on switching?

 

[Hylian]

Switched against Ivy because I felt the glitch was holding me back, couldn't get important WD back jab -> grabs.

 

[S2rulL]

Real talk, just can't hack Icies in two entirely different games lol. Like, they feel sooooo much better cus of the universal changes but like... I miss grabbing people and getting a quick 0~death on 'em, ya know? Just doesn't feel right

 

[Damp]

Very underated kill move in 3.5

 

[Hylian]

Not so much underrated as unknown. I designed it to kill for a reason . Aside from the fact that it's the most punishable up-b in the game, it gives them outs other than uair when the opponent is above and supports their high risk/high reward playstyle. Having another kill options also helps their lack of infinites. This was pretty much the only significant change aside from bug fixes to 3.5 ICs and people are really overlooking it .

 

[nimigoha]

Yeah every time I've used it I've caught my opponent by surprise.

Nana being fully invincible during it is pretty hilarious as well.

EDIT: Hyl I have a maybe glitch for you. If only Popo dies and Nana respawns with him as she disappears, she'll respawn without invincibility or intangibility. She floats down on the platform colourless and drops off it colourless while Popo is blue then green as he should be (debug).

 

[941]

Hi fellow ICs players, I have come seeking advice. I wanted to ask what are some of the most important skills to practice as an ICs main. I also don't have many people to practice with so I was wondering if anyone could suggest some ways to practice against AIs or in training mode.

 

[S2rulL]

Hi fellow ICs players, I have come seeking advice. I wanted to ask what are some of the most important skills to practice as an ICs main. I also don't have many people to practice with so I was wondering if anyone could suggest some ways to practice against AIs or in training mode.

Practice your wavedashes and wavelands. Movement is key for Icies as they don't really have much to offer in terms of neutral or movement. Once you've got them down, try WD>jab>dsmash. Really good tool the Icies have. Desyncs are also very important (imho, the most important being spot dodge and dash dance desyncs). Once you've learnt those, try move on to some simple grab techniques such as dthrow>dair or grab>pummel+blizzard.

 

[941]

Thanks for the tips. I've been practicing wavedashing into attacks and out-of-shield and I think it's helped me a lot. I was wondering about which techniques work best with desyncs. I've mostly just been using desyncs to space out the timing on my neutral B or using blizzard to setup grabs, but I'm trying to diversify a little more. I also wanted to ask about Dthrow>Dair because I can't seem to get much out of it unless my opponent has poor DI.

 

[Damp]

You have to time the down throw d-air differently depending on opponent. Your opponent can sdi the downthrow and prevent a regrab (depends on character I think), but an unsuspecting opponent will always be open to a regrab if you read the di right.

 

[Player -0]

You can't SDI throws except for Jiggz' F-Throw. You can SDI the Dair

 

[Damp]

You can't SDI throws except for Jiggz' F-Throw. You can SDI the Dair

Yeah that's what I meant to say. SDI the dair and you're out.

 

[941]

Is there a better option for characters that can SDI the Dair easily? I'm trying to learn how to deal with as many situations as possible because I'm not using the Ice Climbers to their full potential.

 

[Damp]

I would just try playing neutral and then when you get a grab do some handoffs to rack up damage instead of trying to get chain grabs if you can't get the dthrow dair easily.

 

[941]

What do you think of using down+B to setup a re-grab instead of Dair. I know it doesn't really work on floaty characters but otherwise it seems good.

 

[Damp]

Wayyyy too easily to SDI. Even horrible SDI breaks out of it. Will not work against anyone who knows what they're doing. I've done it to kinda **** with bad players though.

 

[941]

So I'm slowly improving with grab techniques but I'm having trouble setting up grabs. I feel like most attacks push me back to far to grab out-of-shield and I haven't found any good techniques for approaching into grab range. Desync>nana blizzard>grab sometimes works but most players catch onto it after a few times. Also, if anyone knows a good resource for scrubs like me to learn how to play it would help me out a lot (and I could stop bothering people on forums as well).

 

[Player -0]

Don't forget shield SDI has been restored to melee so you can make it not slide as far. You should practice WDOoS to jab grab.

 

[941]

Hello, I'm looking for some more advice: Lately I've been losing a lot and I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong. I feel like my tech-skill is about the same as most of my opponents', yet I can't seem to get more than 2-3 hits out of any combo while I'm taking enough hits to lose a stock after 1-2 combos from my opponents. It seems easy for my opponent to follow up on combos regardless of which way I DI, but other players can usually DI away from me and make it difficult for me to land any more hits. Basically, what I want to know is, what are my opponents doing to punish me, that I don't do to them?

 

[Controlled_Chaos]

How does fair even work? When does it meteor and when does it send them everywhere else?

 

[941]

How does fair even work? When does it meteor and when does it send them everywhere else?

My understanding is that fair meteors when hitting with the handle or the hitbox closest to the Ice Climbers. The head of the hammer/outside of the hitbox sends opponents upwards and away.

 

[nimigoha]

I'm almost certain that it's not just positioning, but also timing.

If you think of the swing like a clock face, hitting with the hammer head after 2 o'clock will spike. And I'm pretty sure it's a spike, I've had crazy deep angles happen before but not sure.

 

[941]

I found a frame data thread that seems to indicate that the fair's meteor hitbox is in the center of the handle.

Link: http://smashboards.com/threads/ice-...-format-slowly-updating.358921/#post-17059966

 

[Hylian]

It's a spike and at the hilt yes.

 

[941]

I'm pretty sure that it was just a meteor in Melee, is it spike in Brawl as well or it exclusive to PM?

 

[nimigoha]

Oh that's very interesting.

 

[Rodan]

Hey guys, I've decided to pick Ice Climbers up in P:M since 3.5, and want to help take them far in this meta! I didn't really enjoy them as much in 3.02's meta, but they seem a lot more viable this patch.

Ice Climbers have always been my favorite character, in any fighting game period, since their concept is so unique and the possibilities seem limitless. I've actually got quite a bit of Ice Climbers experience as they were my first main back when I got into competitive smash for the first time in 2005(though I never did learn to wobble), and I also mained them in Brawl(even won my first local with them), so I have a lot of "experience" with their skill-set(and I think playing them in both games has improved how I think with them)like using their desyncs, playing off their grabs, their stellar movement, etc.

Anyways, I've been having so much fun playing them, and the more I do, the more potential I see in their intricate punishes and setups, and I get so excited! So I wanted to say hey and maybe start helping enliven these boards more. This is their last proving ground, cause like Melee fans, Sakurai has spurned them for their devotion to each other. I'm hoping to get off work for regional this month, but either way, I will be putting my Icies to the test soon in a local at least, and look forward to getting some video criticism.

Sad there is so little Ice Climber's video to watch in P:M. CHANGE IS COMING.