Cold Shoulders: Ice Climbers Social Thread

[Hylian]

Who's hyped for 3.5?

 

[nimigoha]

Give me those new throw release points already!!!

From what you've said it sounds like it makes the character much more solid. They were already decent IMO, but getting even one easy handoff will make them much better at damage.

 

[Kef]

Handoffs were already pretty easy, at least from DThrow.

I really want to see more things regarding their puppet pressure/neutral more than anything to be honest.

Also, where's my alternate colors? Bear hoodies are dope, but I want more colors!

 

[Sharkz]

Super excited about them! I'll be messing with them all weekend to see if I like them this time around. I'm really considering using them against a sonic player in our region I just can't seem to take a set off of. I'm thinking it may throw him off a game so I can have the counterpick advantage if it goes to game 3 with my Pit. I'm assuming desync blizzard and ice block may help slow down his neutral game.

 

[Ringbearer]

Errbody hyped for 3.5, Hylian. And I mean errbody:

 

[RelaxAlax]

I just came to say that this thread was a very missed opportunity to be named "Breaking the Ice"

Cause it's a Social Thread and all...

Okay later IC players.

 

[S2rulL]

Lol nah, Icies in PM just screws up my neutral in PM, made the switch to Zelda now.

 

[Psi Sig]

loving the new icies so far, definitely picking up them.
question, I've been playing melee icies a lot, is smashing during wavedash not a thing in pm? Or am I just bad

 

[Hylian]

No, there is a bug that is giving them inverted momentum on their turn-around animation currently. We will fix it in our bugpatch.

 

[Meme]

My biggest gripe against using ICs in PM has been fixed, might be placebo but doing wavedashes feels much better, smoother...

Once the fix of the inverted momentum thing is out surely I'll be using them more frequently.

 

[Hylian]

Wavedashing is indeed better/smoother. For every character.

 

[Hylian]

Some videos from earlier today:

vs Bowser:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlpHL0N7ta8&t=34m32s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlpHL0N7ta8&t=31m23s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlpHL0N7ta8&t=23m32s

vs Metaknight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlpHL0N7ta8&t=37m22s

Vs Ness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlpHL0N7ta8&t=15m54s

Tons more IC's footage in those videos I linked. 3 of them, all these are just from one.

Lovin me some ICs.

 

[nimigoha]

Hylian do you have a go-to desync or are you just good enough to use whatever is most relevant to your situation.

I feel like I use the spot dodge desync way too much.

 

[Kef]

Hylian do you have a go-to desync or are you just good enough to use whatever is most relevant to your situation.

I feel like I use the spot dodge desync way too much.

forward>back>forward~Puppet Input Here

Take advantage of the rolls you use to desync as well.

 

[PicMan]

This might just be me, but im having a hard time getting nana to throw after regrabing off of fthrow with popo. Il fthrow, have her regrab and then she just sits there and grab releases. Does anyone else have this problem/am i doing something wrong?

 

[Hylian]

Hylian do you have a go-to desync or are you just good enough to use whatever is most relevant to your situation.

I feel like I use the spot dodge desync way too much.

I for the most part desynch in whatever way is most desync to the situation. I don't even really think about desyncs anymore they just come naturally. My most BnB desync though is probably pivot desync.

This might just be me, but im having a hard time getting nana to throw after regrabing off of fthrow with popo. Il fthrow, have her regrab and then she just sits there and grab releases. Does anyone else have this problem/am i doing something wrong?

This is happening because you are holding Z or A as she grabs them. Try just grabbing without holding down the button or holding A. It's a bug that we haven't figured out how to fix yet.

 

[Kef]

This is happening because you are holding Z or A as she grabs them. Try just grabbing without holding down the button or holding A. It's a bug that we haven't figured out how to fix yet.

Why would you guys fix it? It gives them better combos.

 

[nimigoha]

Why would you guys fix it? It gives them better combos.

I feel like if you master it then we're pretty much back to Brawl handoffs though, which I don't really think the PMDT wants in the game.

ICs should have an unreal grab game, but that's like getting 30% off a grab if you're really good, or 50% if you're amazing (or decent and your opponent is Bowser or Ganondorf). Not 'grab and die' like their meta became in Brawl and Melee.

Of course it's really tough to do consistently but that doesn't mean people won't figure out how to abuse it.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Still haven't been able to get 3.5 yet, but I have a question. In 3.02, if you were desyncing and either climber was doing an attack and you dashed as the other, they would dash wall the original climber would start walking. (Spotdodge -> Nana Blizzard -> Popo dashes -> hit a, nana f tilts while popo dash attacks). I was experimenting with it on Tuesday and forgot about it in the 3.5 hype. Is it still in the game? If so, how useful would this be. I haven't looked into all of its uses, but if Nana is the one dashing, it might have some uses, at the very least you can move forward while initiating a desync.

 

[DKMikey]

I'd like to play IC's after seeing their new bear costume (yes, this is a legitimate reason to play a character). Are they viable with the Wiimote and Nunchuck?

 

[Player -0]

You can play any character with any control setup as long as you get used to it. Nazo plays Sonic with one I believe.

If you haven't played with a GCC you might want to try it though, it feels really good.

 

[Ya Boy GP]

I'm really liking ICs in 3.5, I might consider maining them. The only issue is that (in my opinion) ICs have too many bad matchups to only main them, so I'd like to dual main them with someone else who covers ICs bad/awkward matchups. Does anyone have any suggestions of which characters could fill that role?

 

[JosekiTheGreat]

So, there are no gurenteed handoff combos from mid-stage still? I spent half the day trying for regrabbing from nana's throw after I hand them off and can't get it. :[

 

[Kef]

So, there are no gurenteed handoff combos from mid-stage still? I spent half the day trying for regrabbing from nana's throw after I hand them off and can't get it. :[

There are, just stay in the lab longer. There were good setups since 3.0.2.

If you can't get handoffs anyways, try to come up with combos:

- Grab (Popo) > DThrow~Jump Forward(Nana) > Footstool(Nana)~Walf Forward UTilt(Popo)~Double Jump Fair(Nana) > Grab (Popo)

 

[Hylian]

So, there are no gurenteed handoff combos from mid-stage still? I spent half the day trying for regrabbing from nana's throw after I hand them off and can't get it. :[

There are plenty. I do a hand-off combo in the gif I posted above.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

So, there are no gurenteed handoff combos from mid-stage still? I spent half the day trying for regrabbing from nana's throw after I hand them off and can't get it. :[

You can't regrab from nanas throws in the middle of the stage, but you can get great damage from things like Hylian did with up airs and platforms. If I had the link I would also like to reference wobbles vs mew2king at an infinity and beyond where he had a crazy grab punish. Was melee, but should still work the same.

 

[JosekiTheGreat]

^Yeah, been getting upair follow ups off of Nana for sure. I've been playing ICs as my 2ndary since 3.0 came out, so I know and do lots of setups, (downthrow -> Squall Hammer -> Regrab // Downthrow -> Blizzard -> Regrab // Downthrow -> down air -> regrab // Nana Upthrow -> Upair chains // etc, etc) but I'm just looking for more and more *guaranteed* 50%+ setups like there were in Melee. I'm not in favor of wobbling or anything crazy like that, but I do like seeing those sweet sweet wobbles-esque combos like Hylian posted above.

 

[nimigoha]

^Yeah, been getting upair follow ups off of Nana for sure. I've been playing ICs as my 2ndary since 3.0 came out, so I know and do lots of setups, (downthrow -> Squall Hammer -> Regrab // Downthrow -> Blizzard -> Regrab // Downthrow -> down air -> regrab // Nana Upthrow -> Upair chains // etc, etc) but I'm just looking for more and more *guaranteed* 50%+ setups like there were in Melee. I'm not in favor of wobbling or anything crazy like that, but I do like seeing those sweet sweet wobbles-esque combos like Hylian posted above.

If you're frame perfect then you can get Dthrow chains forever I think. At least until like 150% when you can kill them with a grab smash.

Gotta input the Dthrow like the frame Nana grabs. Timing is really tight and differing character weights makes it crazy hard. Haven't tested this in 3.5 though.

 

[JosekiTheGreat]

Right so Nana's AI will upthrow *unless* you get a down imput in that 1 frame window where she cannot act immediately from her grab? I'll do it frame by frame in debug mode when I get off of work and see if I can make it happen. Is this how Melee handoffs worked, but with a larger window for imputing Nana's Dthrow?

-J

 

[nimigoha]

I think something like that. Debug should help.

I never played IC in other games. Not sure how their handoffs worked.

Hylian you need to do a tutorial on how to do Fthrow handoffs because I always run forward. Should I tilt forward for the Fthrow, making the other climber inch forward into grab range?

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Nope, that is something pm specific. How handoffs work:
you must be near a ledge, otherwise nana can up throw. If nana is by a ledge, she will always throw towards it (if on a plat, she prefers bthrow). So if you grab an opponent by the ledge, you popo downthrow, nana grab, nana throws towards ledge, popo grab.

I don't know the specifics, but essentially being by the ledge lets you know where nana will throw. You can't regrab off up throw. You need an edge close by to know which throw she will use so you can know the timing. Check the melee boards/fly aminita vids/smart pm ice climbers like hylian to get better specifics, but that's the basic principles of handoffs in melee.

 

[nimigoha]

Yeah no I get how to do it, it's more of a timing thing. Like where does my climber need to be in relation to the throwing one, when do I press grab, etc.

Also the hold down and the forced Dthrow still work in 3.5. I could take a video if you want to see but explaining it should be enough.

EDIT:

I think I've found a bug. If you do the normal Dthrow-Fair, but hold the other direction as Nana does the Fair, she'll finish the animation facing that way. So like half the Fair is one way.

Debug tells me that sometimes there will be a frame of hitbox after the turn, but more often than not the hitboxes are all like a normal Fair and the frame she turns around there aren't any more hitboxes.

 

[Sharkz]

Are IC handoffs at the edge infinites in 3.5? I was playing friendlies with a Sheik yesterday and got about 6-7 straight handoffs at the very edge with no more room to run. Popo was always able to regrab Sheik once Nana threw her. Am I crazy, or is this a thing?

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Handoffs by the edge have always been infinites, they were overshadowed by wobbling in melee and you could do them from anywhere in brawl. Don't really know why this is surprising. The reason it wasn't in 3.02 is because of the bug affecting a lot of characters throw release points, causing handoffs to be extremely inconsistent/impossible (Pikachu up throw had similar issues, maybe others too).

 

[Sharkz]

Handoffs by the edge have always been infinites, they were overshadowed by wobbling in melee and you could do them from anywhere in brawl. Don't really know why this is surprising. The reason it wasn't in 3.02 is because of the bug affecting a lot of characters throw release points, causing handoffs to be extremely inconsistent/impossible (Pikachu up throw had similar issues, maybe others too).

Oh, for some reason I always thought that in Melee, Popo always had to have a bit of room in order to regrab Nana's fthrow. I guess I assumed that cause I always missed it at the very end of the edge. Well, good to know then.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Actually, I think I am wrong. Just looked at wobbles melee handoff guide. He says:
"There are also ways to increase the number of repetitions. When Nana grabs, make sure you walk so you are standing BARELY in front of her and do a standing grab. Even when I have almost no room left to do the grab, I can squeeze in 3-4 reps like this; if you were combining that with headbutt blizzard, you'd be getting a minimum of 30 percent with each iteration. Given that your opponent is now at the edge of the stage, even if you grabbed them at 0 percent you'd be able to KO most enemies with a charged d-throw f-smash. Except for the heaviest characters, that would finish them even on Dreamland 64."

Basically, with smart use of things like pummel, blizzard, and nana f tilts, you can almost always get a zero to death. Not always, but a lot of damage and an edge guard.

Here is the link to the guide: http://smashboards.com/threads/ledge-chain-grabbing-the-handoff-faq.216589/

Hylian said he made the timing easier in 3.02, but the throw points were messed up so you couldn't do it. So disregard his stuff about timing issues.

 

[JosekiTheGreat]

I have a question that has also probably been answered before - How do I charge Nana's Fsmash during a grab? I can get it to charge, but I always end up throwing them too. I'm sure its something simple I'm missing.

 

[Hylian]

Ledge-handoffs are not infinites

I have a question that has also probably been answered before - How do I charge Nana's Fsmash during a grab? I can get it to charge, but I always end up throwing them too. I'm sure its something simple I'm missing.

You need to grab pummel them, and then input the fsmash during the pummel animation.

 

[Sharkz]

Ledge-handoffs are not infinites

To what point does it stop working? At the very edge?

 

[Hylian]

To what point does it stop working? At the very edge?

Correct. You can regrab different characters more than others at the ledge as well, it also depends on %.