Clone Engine Misc. Discussion Thread

[F. Blue]

Andy from Advance Wars just makes so much sense. I can think of so many uses for those wrenches.

Edit: As much as I want Ridley, I'm afraid he would be too similar to Charizard. This is both a positive and a negative.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Yeah if they go the Captain Goroh route, they could just reskin Ganondorf, and maybe just change his side B to Ike's side B to be the sole katana move. It also happens to be the most stereotypical samurai move (the rapid sword draw), so it would as well.

I like this idea too. So basically, Goroh would be the new Ganon (replacing Flame Choke with a dashing quick-draw).

... I'm sorta ok with that. What about Warlock Punch? It's ridiculously slow, could it at least gain the range of an extended katana?
(Shredder had this exact move I'm talking about in TMNT Smash Up, the only reason why it was useless there was because everybody jumped too dang high for a really long time, otherwise, I see it being much more useful in P:M physics)

 

[ChronoBound]

Here is a visual presentation of the entire Project M roster with the newcomers I am suggesting:

First row Mario universe characters.
Second row "anime"/"fantasy" series characters (and nearly all of the characters use a sword/blade)
Third row, "space" series.
Fourth row, series that HAL developed, the three retros, and two guests.
Fifth row, handheld series characters.
Another user made this for me after I described it, its getting praised.

Credit goes to splat for designing it after I had described it. Additional credit goest to LDG40 for proposing the 9/10/9/10/9 roster design (there can only be a maximum of five rows, and 10 columns).

Sami can be swapped for Andy for those who disagree with Sami. Either way, its an Advance Wars spot.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

- Could feasibly be a luigi-fied clone combination of DK and Diddy.

I'm honestly curious to know how this would work, because DK seems to be the slow but strong one and Diddy is the fast and combo-happy one but light. I'm not sure how she would be able to be in her own style without being too similar to one of the two (more than likely Diddy) unless there's a special ability she has that I haven't heard of. I haven't played the DK series before so I do admit I don't know much of it, but I want to see a convincing argument for her that can appeal to people who haven't played the series before. I've seen convincing ones for pretty much every other character highly requested besides her. Just really curious is all, not saying she isn't a good candidate, but I'd just like to see someone do a tl;dr on her basically. Like maybe some kind of comparison between how existing clone characters work and why Dixie would be a good candidate instead of other characters that would be less like clones (imo). Mostly it has to do with the fact that she has to be not too close to either DK or Diddy, while other characters can have more varied moves in comparison.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I'm honestly curious to know how this would work, because DK seems to be the slow but strong one and Diddy is the fast and combo-happy one but light. I'm not sure how she would be able to be in her own style without being too similar to one of the two (more than likely Diddy) unless there's a special ability she has that I haven't heard of. I haven't played the DK series before so I do admit I don't know much of it, but I want to see a convincing argument for her that can appeal to people who haven't played the series before. I've seen convincing ones for pretty much every other character highly requested besides her. Just really curious is all, not saying she isn't a good candidate, but I'd just like to see someone do a tl;dr on her basically. Like maybe some kind of comparison between how existing clone characters work and why Dixie would be a good candidate instead of other characters that would be less like clones (imo). Mostly it has to do with the fact that she has to be not too close to either DK or Diddy, while other characters can have more varied moves in comparison.

Honestly you're better off playing DKC 2 and 3 to see exactly what she's like instead of asking us to explain why she would be good. It'll allow you to find out for yourself.

 

[AnOkayDM]

I'm honestly curious to know how this would work, because DK seems to be the slow but strong one and Diddy is the fast and combo-happy one but light. I'm not sure how she would be able to be in her own style without being too similar to one of the two (more than likely Diddy) unless there's a special ability she has that I haven't heard of. I haven't played the DK series before so I do admit I don't know much of it, but I want to see a convincing argument for her that can appeal to people who haven't played the series before. I've seen convincing ones for pretty much every other character highly requested besides her. Just really curious is all, not saying she isn't a good candidate, but I'd just like to see someone do a tl;dr on her basically. Like maybe some kind of comparison between how existing clone characters work and why Dixie would be a good candidate instead of other characters that would be less like clones (imo). Mostly it has to do with the fact that she has to be not too close to either DK or Diddy, while other characters can have more varied moves in comparison.

Well, she uses her ponytail a lot in the games, so that alone could bring a bunch of versatility to her moveset.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'm honestly curious to know how this would work, because DK seems to be the slow but strong one and Diddy is the fast and combo-happy one but light.n.

I was talking about the specials and Final Smash for what Dixie could take from DK (Dixie can ground pound with her ponytail, can have DK's recovery with her ponytail, and possibly his Final Smash since she was in Donkey Konga 2). She can have a modified version of Diddy's neutral special since she now has her own popgun (only her's shoots out gumballs).

I explained on the previous page about why Dixie would be a good choice.

 

[Mithost]

Well logic was thrown out the window when you refused to do anything other than "no it isn't". Welcome to smashboards I guess.

I wish we had a character speculation thread so we could actually talk about the clone engine and it's inner workings here. I want to know how much will be available to player modification, and how replacing the new character's textures works.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Well logic was thrown out the window when you refused to do anything other than "no it isn't". Welcome to smashboards I guess.

...who are you talking to?

 

[Anti Guy]

I like this idea too. So basically, Goroh would be the new Ganon (replacing Flame Choke with a dashing quick-draw).

... I'm sorta ok with that. What about Warlock Punch? It's ridiculously slow, could it at least gain the range of an extended katana?
(Shredder had this exact move I'm talking about in TMNT Smash Up, the only reason why it was useless there was because everybody jumped too dang high for a really long time, otherwise, I see it being much more useful in P:M physics)

Warlock Punch could be replaced with a katana attack with the same hitbox and parameters... just visual changes.

But like BronzeGeekGod said, I'd rather have Black Shadow and retain all of Ganondorf's attacks. I, personally, would not mind Goroh and I think he's equally viable as Black Shadow, but is not quite a perfect fit for Ganondorf, and any changes might get Gdorf purists upset (which I think is kinda funny because it's not like this Ganondorf is exactly the same as Melee's either...)

 

[AnOkayDM]

Warlock Punch could be replaced with a katana attack with the same hitbox and parameters... just visual changes.

But like BronzeGeekGod said, I'd rather have Black Shadow and retain all of Ganondorf's attacks. I, personally, would not mind Goroh and I think he's equally viable as Black Shadow, but is not quite a perfect fit for Ganondorf, and any changes might get Gdorf purists upset (which I think is kinda funny because it's not like this Ganondorf is exactly the same as Melee's either...)

Black Shadow getting Ganon's moveset and Ganon getting his own moveset has my complete and utter support. Tired of Ganon staring at his sword but not using it.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Edit: As much as I want Ridley, I'm afraid he would be too similar to Charizard. This is both a positive and a negative.

He could even be a clone/partial clone of Charizard. I would be fine with that.

I like this idea too. So basically, Goroh would be the new Ganon (replacing Flame Choke with a dashing quick-draw).

... I'm sorta ok with that. What about Warlock Punch? It's ridiculously slow, could it at least gain the range of an extended katana?
(Shredder had this exact move I'm talking about in TMNT Smash Up, the only reason why it was useless there was because everybody jumped too dang high for a really long time, otherwise, I see it being much more useful in P:M physics)

I'm cool with this idea as long as Goroh isn't the replacement to Ganondorf..
I REALLY REALLY want Ganondorfs current move set to be ported to another character, but even I'd be unhappy if the current Ganondorf move set was tampered with. The point of Black Shadow is to keep Ganondorf while making a new Ganondorf.

Again, making Goroh a partial clone of ganondorf/c.falcon is fine with me, but not as a REPLACEMENT to ganondorf.

 

[batistabus]

Part of me is legitimately curious and trying to learn, while the other part of me just hates Dixie Kong.

Because she:
- Planned for Brawl
- Is popular
- Important to her series.
- One of the few game heroines that has never been sexualized or a damsel-in-distress (yet still sweet and feminine)
- Was a main protagonist in arguably among the best plaformers ever (DKC2 and DKC3)
- Could feasibly be a luigi-fied clone combination of DK and Diddy.
- Most people like her.

-Source? Not really relevant for PM. If true, that makes her likely for Smash 4, which could potentially create some conflict.
-Maybe. I feel like most of the time people are just trying to represent lower-represented series. Do you think anyone actually cares about F-Zero characters other than Falcon? That doesn't stop people from constantly suggesting Goroh or Black Shadow.
-I suppose this is good, but considering she's more animal than human (unlike the Star Fox characters), I'm not sure this is very significant.
-Okay point.
-Just because she is more feasible than other characters, that doesn't mean it would be worth the work over a more difficult character. Also, I'm not sure if the "Diddy" archetype is something that needs to be represented multiple times. Those monkey noises...just imagine constantly having to listen to even higher-pitched screeches than Diddy.
-Same as popularity.

1) Female character in a mostly male dominated roster.
2) Important Donkey Kong Country cast member with a unique style of her own.
3) Fighting style that would be reminiscent of DK and Diddy's without being a copy of either.


Is there any need to go more into depth than these three simple statements?

1. I think diversity is important, but why Dixie over other females? Is Dixie "iconic" enough to make it in over other male characters from other franchises?
2. Good point.
3. Are those archetypes popular enough to warrant another version, though? And again, the chimp noises.

Overall, I think the best point (that wasn't mentioned) is that Donkey Kong is one of Nintendo's most financially successful franchises. Can someone show me what's actually cool or interesting about Dixie? Would you vote for Dixie if there was only one slot available?

 

[ChronoBound]

1. I think diversity is important, but why Dixie over other females? Is Dixie "iconic" enough to make it in over other male characters from other franchises?

The only other female Nintendo character that I would say that is more important and popular than Dixie Kong but is not yet playable would be Paltuena, who is probably going to end up playable in Smash 4.

As for Dixie Kong being planned to be playable. She was a part of the Forbidden 7. The other six characters for that included Mewtwo, Roy, Dr. Mario, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, and Pra_Mai.

 

[Anti Guy]

Dixie Kong has had barely any anti-comments. As I said the worst people say about her is "what if she shows up in Smash 4?". She is pretty common and praised.

While there is a lot of people that like the idea of Black Shadow and Ganondorf getting his own moveset, there is a lot of people who are attached to Captain Ganondorf as well.

Alright let's use some HARD EVIDENCE from this thread... I only pick each person once, and randomly if their posts are short enough, I throw in a couple extra quotes in the same quote block.

green = support or somewhat support
yellow = "I could see it either way..."
red = against or somewhat against

(Sorry, a lot of the formatting got really messed up here... so some of the colors and quotes got messed up)

Black Shadow & Ganondorf

Black Shadow

Although, like others before me, while Black Shadow would be the new personality, the actual new moveset would go to

Ganondorf

Who, unlike others before me, I do not wish to see wield a sword, but rather a trident. Swords have been played out, both in general, and specifically in Smash. A trident would be a bit more interesting, adding something new to the game, in addition to the fact that Ganon has used varieties of trident far more often than he has swords, and it is much more thematically relevant for a King of Evil.

Interesting but Improbable Tier:

Ridley, Black Shadow + Re-tooled Ganondorf

I hope this is appropriate to ask here, I don't wana bring up ridiculous things. I know the main purpoise of Project M is to make it feel like a sequel to Melee, but now with the clone engine I feel like this could be doable.

So ganondorf... hes always been a huge concern of mine since he was released as a clone in melee. It bothered me so much since day one. So i was wondering if with the clone engine this could create the option/opportunity to port another character over ganondorf (just skin and audio effects mainly). For example black shadow or demise could work great as a ganondorf replacement. This would keep that character move set in the game while opening the door to perhaps giving ganondorf his own move set.

***

2. Black Shadow with Ganondorf's current move set (Thus giving Ganondorf his own moves set) - In this case actually, the new Ganondorf would probably be taking a clone space because he may need to be created from scratch using another character as the base. Black shadow would just be Ganondorfs new skin, and they may need to change a couple of GFX and SFX

So basically, change Ganon to actually fight like and give his Falcon clone moveset to a new F-Zero character, which would probably be either Black Shadow or Blood Falcon. (I'd personally be happy with Phoenix, but I know no one knows who he is. lol)

Neat idea, but I dunno if they'd go for it or if anyone else would.

No, no offense but.... Go kill yourself :meleeganondorf:

****

No no no no, I want ganondorf, not another fzero character. GANONDORF

***

Not cause melee, i just love him the way he currently is; make another ganondorf if you want, ill be happy too but not if the current ganondorf is changed

It's an interesting thought, though forcing people who enjoy the way Ganondorf currently plays to use a character that they might not like (Black Shadow) just to have the same play doesn't sound very good. Personally, if Black Shadow were to be added to the game, I'd prefer him to be somewhere in the middle of Falcon and Ganondorf than to be what we currently have as Ganondorf.

*****

I like the idea of an accurate Ganondorf, but there are multiple questions bouncing around in my head that seem to conflict with the idea. To what extent would Ganonorf need to be changed and how accurate would you want him to be? Would he have a reflectable projectile like he does in Ocarina of Time (And ALTTP as Agahnim), even for non reflecting attacks? Would he have a more melee oriented fighting style like he does in Wind Waker, where he dual wields against you (And has a hell of a backhand)? Would he be even slower, like he seems to be in his Twilight Princess style, with his exaggerated stab and swings?

There are multiple levels that this could be taken to, and most of them sound pretty bad because Ganondorf is a pathetic boss in most encounters. It's an oddity considering how much he gets built up in the Zelda series, only to get repeatedly thrashed by a child/teen. His duel with Link at the end of Twilight Princess is one of the most pathetic fights from Ganondorf, in the history of Zelda, it's pretty clear that he's not that skilled with the blade. That said, why do people seem to want him to use a sword?

Another thing to keep in mind, is that Ganondorf is the character in Smash and he only transforms into Ganon during his Final Smash. Ganondorf doesn't use a trident in any game in the series, that's an iconic part of the pig-man Ganon transformation.

Except that he doesn't fight like Ganondorf does, he fights like a bigger, heavier C. Falcon. who he has absolutely no connection to.

Flame Choke and Sparta Kick are the only moves from the Zelda games that he has, and those should stay with him. okay and the Final Smash lol. an ideal Ganondorf would probably switch between the Twilight Princess sword, a trident, and magical attacks, with a few kick and punch moves thrown in there.

which would likely massivly eclipse the 700 hours that it took for Roy.

also it would not be hard to give current Ganondorf a few sword attacks from TP. Snake got an all new weapon that was not even in the code in Brawl, I would imagine that giving Ganondorf a few moves with a weapon that already has a model in the game to be easier.

*****

I'd prefer a Ganondorf that fights like Ganondorf does in the Legend of Zelda games actually

I think Smash has actually defined a lot of characters moreso than their original games. A good example of this is probably Kid Icarus - Sakurai re-imagined him for Brawl, and then that re-imagined version was how he was represented in KI:U. You can also see it with characters like Captain Falcon, ICies, etc. (haha! I forgot to finish this thought! :D

To tie that back to Gdorf, there's never been a video game where I've ever played as him except for Smash. I'm not actually sure if there are even other places to play as him, but if there are, I've never seen or heard of them. This is legitimately the only context in which I can be Ganondorf.

I've been playing as this version of Ganondorf for about 12 years now, though. In my mind, Ganondorf doesn't even have a sword. He's just a brolic dude that punches and kicks people around. : D It's not entirely inaccurate, either - he's a Gerudo after all, and the fact that he's a really skilled hand-to-hand fighter that also augments himself with dark magic is pretty appropriate. He may not have the shadowy balls from OoT or the sword from TP, but again - DK doesn't have his coconut gun or orange grenades. I don't think a character necessarily needs to come equipped with everything they've ever used to be an acceptable representation of themselves. When you're dealing with something more open-ended, like "how does it feel to play as a boss?", that interpretation can vary wildly.

Of course, we all know that the initial reason Gdorf is a clone is time constraints, but that moveset is as much a part of him now as Falco's or Roy's.

I guess that's my point. A lot of people say "he doesn't fight like Ganondorf!", but to me, this is the definitive way that Ganondorf fights.




For me, it's more that I don't think it's the best use of the PM BR's resources and time. I'm sure I'd love a re-imagining of Ganondorf if it was done by them with their standards and quality... I'm just not sure that's a good use of ~700 hours, considering they'd just be taking a classic character that's already pretty beloved and enjoyable to play, and changing his moves just to fit in with people's image of what he "should've" been 12 years ago. That's why I encouraged you guys to get into the modding scene yourselves - a passionate group of people who feel that Ganondorf should fight differently could definitely come up with something interesting.

Black Shadow - Black Shadow is Captain Falcon's archnemesis, first appearing in F-Zero X. F-Zero is actually a pretty sizeable franchise, with at least 5 games, more than Star Fox (3 characters) and Mother (2 characters), yet it only has 1 character. If it were to have another, there are 3 main candidates: Samurai Goroh (Falcon's rival from the very first game), Blood Falcon (his clone), and Black Shadow. Samurai Goroh, while already an assist trophy, would require a lot of work. Blood Falcon is already a costume for Falcon, and he doesn't add much. Black Shadow, on the other hand, fits the villain role, and due to his dark and evil character, perfectly fits the playstyle of the current Ganondorf, down to the shadow side-effects. And of course, he's significant in the story.

Ganondorf - Many people, including me, have been disappointed at Ganondorf being a clone of Captain Falcon because that is not how his character works in the Zelda games. While Captain Falcon has never been seen outside his car (allowing the developers to be creative with his moveset), Ganondorf HAS. He's either using magic (OoT) or swords (WW, TP) when fighting Link. A lot of people don't want to see another sword-user, so his sword could be restricted to a few of his moves. One idea that have been thrown around is his signature electric attack from OoT (neutral B - chargeable like in the game). Like Zelda, the rest of his moves can be creative. Perhaps a down B could be a chargeable attack where he raises his fist in front of his face, charges, and then releases a blast from the the Triforce of Power, knocking everyone in a radius back.

In general, the most opposition to this idea are players who like Ganondorf just the way he is and can't see him in any other form (despite him being much different in his actual games)

Black Shadow- Because Ganandorf isn't Ganandorf. Moar F-Zero.

I think giving Ganon a new moveset to make him not be a clone of cf would be awesome but instead of giving black shadow ganon's moveset, I think Deathborn would be a better fzero villian to choose instead of black shadow, I mean common black shadow was basically his yesman in Gx that has to count for something right?

Black Shadow & Ganondorf is an interesting option, to say the least, but I can't help but ask: why, exactly? I know quite a few people that play Ganondorf and like the way he plays, changing him could upset the current players (I think this is what stopping Sakurai in changing Ganondorf too much as well).

Skapon

Another top pick. Guaranteed not to be in Smash 4, featured as a sticker, both modeling and animating should be trivial, and already has a moveset to draw from (plus even more from the other characters of Joy Mech Fight) while still having plenty room to improvise.

While unquestionably not popular, and even particularly unknown, I propose that this is because he is so unknown. If he were to be included in Pro:M, and be thrust into the public (or less narrowly exclusive) eye, I'd expect his fandom to flourish for the same reason I liked him when I heard of him: he's a unique and entertaining character with (what is bound to be) a unique and entertaining playstyle, from Nintendo's first traditional fighting game, brought to Nintendo's premier innovative fighting series. Even the facts that he is so obscure and forgotten make him likeable, providing "aware of Nintendo’s history" and "abandoned, abused underdog" angles.

And of course, the only article he'd really need is a fairly simple projectile.

Sukapon - By far my favorite choice, and I've been wanting him since Brawl. His biggest con is that he doesn't have much fan support (although that can be due to his lack of exposure, which you can also turn into a pro, as you mentioned). I've played Joy Mech Fight, beaten it, and loved it... and the only reason I played it is due to Brawl speculation. If they can do for Sukapon/JMF what Ness did to Earthbound, that would be awesome. Now his second biggest con is programming him, since he'd have to be from scratch. However, the plus side to that is that his animations are probably as friggin simple as they get due to his character design. If there was one character made from scratch, Sukapon would be the easiest to make (at least I think so. Plus his game already gives him a moveset, with specials!

Also, Sukapon could be the "Well you can't have an awesome blue robot made by a doctor to stop robots gone haywire by an evil doctor, BUT you can have an awesome pink robot made by a doctor to stop robots gone haywire by an evil doctor" character, if you get what I mean

I just played a LOT of Joy Mech Fight, and seriously man, that game is amazing.

All-in Sukapon!

Sukapon- Because I love fighting games and Sukapon needs exposure.

5. Sukapon - I actually didn't even know much about this guy until Antiguy's post about him. But I immediately decided that he'd be an amazing addition. I'm actually like 99% sure they're gona add him in Smash WiiU.

Sukapon talk got me excited, THAT I would support.

A bit late, but I'd like to voice my opinion on Sukapon (as this result startles me):

I think it's a horrendous, horrendous character. Bland and uninspired design, as was the entire game aesthetically.
Perhaps it was a great fighting game to play (I don't know, only seen videos of it), but in the videos it just looks like a bunch of balls going wild.

Sukapon is one of the few characters that'd absolutely give me a negative feel - negative hype, if something like that exists.

I think if it came to an actual poll Black Shadow would be very divided.

Secondly, want to account bet that Lyn won't be in?

I also think Sukapon would be a foolish choice since he is a character from a one-off game that has never been referenced in any other media aside from Brawl (as a sticker).

Contrast him to other Japan-only retro characters like Takamaru and Lip, and he comes out looking very unfavorable. Nazo no Murasame has been referenced in many other Nintendo titles (most recently Nintendo Land), while Lip is basically the mascot to the Panel de Pon/Puzzle League franchise.

Sukapon by comparison is a one-off character that has never been seen again since 1993.

Lyn

I also think that Pokemon (outside Mewtwo), Fire Emblem (I'm looking at you, Lyn+Ephraim fanboys), Star Fox, and Kirby have more than enough representation and don't need anymore

Many many many pages

Reasonable Tier:

Isaac, Little Mac, Dixie Kong, maybe Lyn

Alright, well since clone engine is a thing, I thought I'd post my thread and moveset for Lyn right here.

Just cause, I think Lyn and Isaac should TOTALLY be in P:M, and I'd like to see her incorporated with this idea: *cue epic post*

Yeah, Lyn would be nice, but I think it would be cool to see a lord that is less sword based. : /

Ephraim anyone?Hector?...

For assist trophies to characters is say: lyn, issac, saki, little Mac and Waluigi.

As for popular in game assets to be turned into characters I'd say: Ridley, Krystal, king K Rool, Dixie Kong and Bowser Jr.

Lyn would just be a Marth-sized Metaknight with Link's bow >.>

That huge post was really helpful, by the way. I'm fine with all suggestions, even Lyn. (Though any other non-sword FE character just sits with me much better)

On clones, I'm against Lyn. Not because of the character (really dig her game and the character), but 4 Fire Emblem characters is just overkill for the roster. There are so many trophies and ASSIST trophies to look at, so I'm not sure what another swordsman could do different.

Ridley, Isaac, Goroh, and Lyn would be great though, with either Starfy or Pichu filling out the last slot.

Gib me Lyn please.

Honestly I have no arguments here. That list has a great set of choices. If any of them made it I would be fine. I would be fine with just about any characters really. Especially more female reps like Dixie and Lyn.

Character-wise, I'm not that interested in Lyn; probably because I've yet to play a Fire Emblem game (I wanted to pick up Awakenings a while ago, but it was sold out everywhere).

However, I am interested in how she'd play.

I think I feel similar about her as I do about Isaac. Interested to see how the character would play, unsure if the characters themselves are interesting enough.

Overall stats:

Black Shadow/Ganondorf:
For: 73%
Against: 18%

Skapon:
For: 75%
Against: 25%




Lyn:
For: 58%
Against: 25%

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

1. I think diversity is important, but why Dixie over other females? Is Dixie "iconic" enough to make it in over other male characters from other franchises?
2. Good point.
3. Are those archetypes popular enough to warrant another version, though? And again, the chimp noises.

Overall, I think the best point (that wasn't mentioned) is that Donkey Kong is one of Nintendo's most financially successful franchises. Can someone show me what's actually cool or interesting about Dixie? Would you vote for Dixie if there was only one slot available?

1) Depends really, how many iconic Nintendo characters are in consideration that are also, as you said, part of an incredibly successful franchise?
3) DK is a fantastic character, Diddy is a pretty good character. I'd love to see something in the middle of them, personally.

I skipped 2, because...there was no point in adding to that. Another thing important to Dixie is that she isn't just some side character in Donkey Kong Country, and she was the main character of the third game. She can play the guitar pretty well and her hairtwirl glide is interesting. Honestly it really depends on your preferences, if you don't like her, there's not much I could do to convince you.

If it came between Dixie Kong and Knuckles for one slot, I'd vote for Knuckles. If Knuckles isn't an option, Dixie all the way.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think if it came to an actual poll Black Shadow would be very divided.

Secondly, want to account bet that Lyn won't be in?

I also think Sukapon would be a foolish choice since he is a character from a one-off game that has never been referenced in any other media aside from Brawl (as a sticker).

Contrast him to other Japan-only retro characters like Takamaru and Lip, and he comes out looking very unfavorable. Nazo no Murasame has been referenced in many other Nintendo titles (most recently Nintendo Land), while Lip is basically the mascot to the Panel de Pon/Puzzle League franchise.

Sukapon by comparison is a one-off character that has never been seen again since 1993.

 

[NisforSmash]

Edit: As much as I want Ridley, I'm afraid he would be too similar to Charizard. This is both a positive and a negative.

That's like saying if the pmbr were to add someone like birdo he would be similar to Yoshi.
The design overall I agree has some visual similarities such as the wings and the overall dragon like bone structure but otherwise they are completely different.

 

[splat]

Skapon:
For: 100%
Against: 0%

A bit late, but I'd like to voice my opinion on Sukapon (as this result startles me):

I think it's a horrendous, horrendous character. Bland and uninspired design, as was the entire game aesthetically.
Perhaps it was a great fighting game to play (I don't know, only seen videos of it), but in the videos it just looks like a bunch of balls going wild.

Sukapon is one of the few characters that'd absolutely give me a negative feel - negative hype, if something like that exists.

 

[NisforSmash]

If it came between Dixie Kong and Knuckles for one slot, I'd vote for Knuckles. If Knuckles isn't an option, Dixie all the way.

agree with you on everything except for this part. Dixie over knuckles.
I think 3rd party characters should only get 1 representative.

 

[Anti Guy]

I think if it came to an actual poll Black Shadow would be very divided.

Secondly, want to account bet that Lyn won't be in?

I also think Sukapon would be a foolish choice since he is a character from a one-off game that has never been referenced in any other media aside from Brawl (as a sticker).

Contrast him to other Japan-only retro characters like Takamaru and Lip, and he comes out looking very unfavorable. Nazo no Murasame has been referenced in many other Nintendo titles (most recently Nintendo Land), while Lip is basically the mascot to the Panel de Pon/Puzzle League franchise.

Sukapon by comparison is a one-off character that has never been seen again since 1993.

What do you mean by account bet? I'm willing to bet something, sure.

 

[ChronoBound]

What do you mean by account bet? I'm willing to bet something, sure.

Maybe not account bet (I think that may be childish). But the loser has to put something in there signature that says "I was wrong about Lyn being in/not being in." I feel good that she will be among the five newcomers chosen. While I don't think FE deserves four characters, I think if the Project M team is looking for an "explicity" female fighter, they will look to her first.

 

[red9rd]

The only problem I have with Knuckles is that his theme cant be that damn Pumpkin Hill song.
I think a great pick wold be one of the Subspace army.

 

[Anti Guy]

Maybe not account bet (I think that may be childish). But the loser has to put something in there signature that says "I was wrong about Lyn being in/not being in." I feel good that she will be among the five newcomers chosen. While I don't think FE deserves four characters, I think if the Project M team is looking for an "explicity" female fighter, they will look to her first.

I would rather have Dixie or Lip over her if you need a female character.

And I don't really care at all about signatures, so sure.

 

[ChronoBound]

I would rather have Dixie or Lip over her if you need a female character.

And I don't really care at all about signatures, so sure.

I rather have Dixie Kong too. Though we can easily get both.

Lip could represent Panel de Pon (Nintendo's biggest puzzle series next to Dr. Mario), however, I rather not get loli upskirts in Smash Bros.

Sorry if this sounds immature, but I don't like it that I keep getting bashed for suggesting Lyn. I rather call off the bet, but I am just using it as deterrence to keep people from insulting me about the possibility of Lyn.

 

[Anti Guy]

I rather have Dixie Kong too. Though we can easily get both.

Lip could represent Panel de Pon (Nintendo's biggest puzzle series next to Dr. Mario), however, I rather not get loli upskirts in Smash Bros.

Sorry if this sounds immature, but I don't like it that I keep getting bashed for suggesting Lyn. I rather call off the bet, but I am just using it as deterrence to keep people from insulting me about the possibility of Lyn.

I am not "bashing" on you for suggesting Lyn, but when you keep presenting her as an absolute shoe-in in so many posts as if everyone here agrees on it, then it gets annoying because it sounds like you're not actually listening and just pushing forward regardless.

Edit: And what I mean by "pushing it" is saying that "the list" or "the characters most likely to get in" or "the list that people seem to be agreeing on" or as a community is XXXX and putting in characters like Lyn while ignoring other popular ones like Skapon. Lists like these have a lot more weight because you're essentially trying to speak up for the majority.

You can say "My favorite list of characters is XXX" which is fine because then that's your personal opinion rather than what you see as the collective, which is why I don't particularly comment on other people's lists. If I were to do that, my list would be totally different (for example, I would really want Micaiah as a Zelda clone, but I know it's foolish), but I'm mainly trying to gauge what the public interest is, and try to sway opinion with arguments (yet only include myself as one of the voices when I'm estimating the public opinion, like I did above)

 

[red9rd]

I am not "bashing" on you for suggesting Lyn, but when you keep presenting her as an absolute shoe-in in so many posts as if everyone here agrees on it, then it gets annoying because it sounds like you're not actually listening and just pushing forward regardless.

That's how I feel with most of these suggestions and probable how people see my suggestions. Best leave it up to the gods

 

[ChronoBound]

I am not "bashing" on you for suggesting Lyn, but when you keep presenting her as an absolute shoe-in in so many posts as if everyone here agrees on it, then it gets annoying because it sounds like you're not actually listening and just pushing forward regardless.

Okay. However, the two characters I feel the most confident about getting in as Project M newcomers are Lyn and Isaac.

After that, the three most likely I see are Dixie Kong, Waluigi, and a second Sonic character.

Note, I don't support the latter two, and I think they would be poor addition choices overall.

 

[shinhed-echi]

So now we start listing female characters:

Krystal
Lip
Alice
Alexandra Roivas
Lyndis
Jody Summers (Ganondorf moveset, I dare you!) (nah, jk)
Medusa/Palutena (whoever doesn't get into SSB4)
Dixie Kong
Captain Syrup (no real 3D render for her, I think)
Ahley (clone based on Ness?)
Paula/Ana/Kumatora.


I choose Medusa/Palutena, and Captain Syrup (or Ashley if the Captain is too much work)

 

[ChronoBound]

My history with the Smash Bros. fanbase is as a speculator. I have done speculation since the pre-Melee days. I don't plan to follow the series anymore after Smash 4 though. My personal pessimism about Ridley (my single most wanted character for Smash Bros. since the first installment) getting into Smash 4, as well as the additions of Mewtwo and Roy (two of my favorite Melee characters), is the reason why I am intrigued with Project M's possible five newcomers.

I really hope the team will develop Ridley if he fails to get into Smash 4. There are many of us Ridley fans who have been waiting since at least 2001 for him to join the cast of Nintendo All-Stars. And personally, if Sakurai still decides at this point that he doesn't want Ridley, he may never end up getting in. Plus who wants to wait until 2020/2021 for Smash 5 (assuming it gets made).

So my perspective is perhaps different from most people in this topic (who are mostly competitive players).

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Honestly you're better off playing DKC 2 and 3 to see exactly what she's like instead of asking us to explain why she would be good. It'll allow you to find out for yourself.

I mean, imo I shouldn't have to play the game to see how she would be a great fighter in smash. I haven't played FE, F-Zero, Metroid or most of the other series with potential characters but I can definitely see how they can be candidates. Dixie just doesn't seem to have as much potential, from what I have read, so I wanted to see if anyone had a good/detailed explanation. But if not, it's ok, I was just asking.

Well, she uses her ponytail a lot in the games, so that alone could bring a bunch of versatility to her moveset.

Ok, I can see that a bit, but even with a ponytail I'm not sure what else she would be able to get besides long and/or disjointed hits (though ideas can come from it)

I was talking about the specials and Final Smash for what Dixie could take from DK (Dixie can ground pound with her ponytail, can have DK's recovery with her ponytail, and possibly his Final Smash since she was in Donkey Konga 2). She can have a modified version of Diddy's neutral special since she now has her own popgun (only her's shoots out gumballs).[/font][/color]

I explained on the previous page about why Dixie would be a good choice.

I saw your explanation, but I was wondering if anyone could go into detail, not just list factors. Mostly I'm just curious, entirely moveset-wise, what unique things she could have implemented. Gumballs and ponytails are a good start, but I wanted to know if there was anything in depth. Pwnz0rz Man mentioned a guitar (below) and that is huge imo, quite a lot of moves can come from a guitar.

She can play the guitar pretty well and her hairtwirl glide is interesting.

I can really see things happening with a guitar. Does she have any other items and/or unique traits? :0

 

[Anti Guy]

My history with the Smash Bros. fanbase is as a speculator. I have done speculation since the pre-Melee days. I don't plan to follow the series anymore after Smash 4 though. My personal pessimism about Ridley (my single most wanted character for Smash Bros. since the first installment) getting into Smash 4, as well as the additions of Mewtwo and Roy (two of my favorite Melee characters), is the reason why I am intrigued with Project M's possible five newcomers.

I really hope the team will develop Ridley if he fails to get into Smash 4. There are many of us Ridley fans who have been waiting since at least 2001 for him to join the cast of Nintendo All-Stars. And personally, if Sakurai still decides at this point that he doesn't want Ridley, he may never end up getting in. Plus who wants to wait until 2020/2021 for Smash 5 (assuming it gets made).

So my perspective is perhaps different from most people in this topic (who are mostly competitive players).

I'm in the same boat too. I'm not a competitive player, but I've been playing this game for so long (if you couldn't tell, I've been on this board a looong time ago, from the pre-melee days as well, back when Gideon and I were still in high school), and the fact that P:M is able to add newcomers is something I've never seen because the members here actually matter (though to what degree is totally unknown), unlike the real games where Sakurai decides all and we can just watch and be excited/devastated like a bipolar sports fan rooting for his favorite sports team.

I'd also love to see Ridley in. And actually, who cares if he might be in SSB4 or not. Being able to see him in one of those character reveal videos would be breathtaking.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

agree with you on everything except for this part. Dixie over knuckles.
I think 3rd party characters should only get 1 representative.

I agree, Knuckles just happens to be my favorite Sonic character, so I'd be a little biased. He'd be about the only character that I'd put in front of her if and only if he were on the cards.

I can really see things happening with a guitar. Does she have any other items and/or unique traits? :0

I suppose she chews gum and I've heard she has a gumball gum, which could be something unique. I imagine that it would give her the possibility of locking people to the floor with sticky gum instead. Granted, that would probably be hard to program in, since it would likely be a brand new projectile, or at least a heavily modified existing one.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'm in the same boat too. I'm not a competitive player, but I've been playing this game for so long (if you couldn't tell, I've been on this board a looong time ago, from the pre-melee days as well, back when Gideon and I were still in high school), and the fact that P:M is able to add newcomers is something I've never seen because the members here actually matter (though to what degree is totally unknown), unlike the real games where Sakurai decides all and we can just watch and be excited/devastated like a bipolar sports fan rooting for his favorite sports team.

I'd also love to see Ridley in. And actually, who cares if he might be in SSB4 or not. Being able to see him in one of those character reveal videos would be breathtaking.

I have been here since 2001, though I registered at GameFAQs (July 2001). I migrated over here as GameFAQs (and probably every other worthwhile Smash Bros. poster) became overrun with stupidity.

However, yeah, I actually think its worthwhile to talk about character worth here since our words might possibly influence the team.

Personally, I think though Ridley will only get in through a massive fan push because although they are very talented, Ridley would probably be among the more daunting characters to pursue because:
1. He would be a non-clone.
2. He is non-humanoid.

However, Ridley perhaps has the biggest payoff seeing as he probably has the biggest fanbase of any character that has yet to be playable in Smash Bros.

 

[Protom]

In the newest DKC TF trailer, if you look closely, she has a bubble gum gun that fires bubble gum balls in front of her that hen bounce. I see this being a nice addition if she is incorporated into either PM or SSB4. used on ground, it bounces forward twice before disappearing. used in air, bounces once high after hitting ground. Also the ball color is random, though has no affect on gameplay.
That's just my ideas...

 

[Anti Guy]

Personally, I think though Ridley will only get in through a massive fan push because although they are very talented, Ridley would probably be among the more daunting characters to pursue because:
1. He would be a non-clone.
2. He is non-humanoid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxVkSaVgm1A

 

[AnOkayDM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxVkSaVgm1A

That hardly does Ridley justice.

 

[Protom]

After seeing a waluigi hack (can't find the link) I actually genuinely want waluigi. Not for ssb4 (never in a official smash. NEVER) but for PM (and yes, even if he's is hated)
EDITZ: Link to the WAAA http://youtu.be/_qHiylpW5ck

 

[ChronoBound]

As I said before, although I think Dixie Kong is one of the best characters they could possibly include. The only problem with her is that she may end up in Smash 4, or that she gets into Smash 4 and K. Rool does not, and the K. Rool fans get peeved that she got both in Smash 4 and Project M. Although if there were to be one newcomer that deserves to be in both Project M and Smash 4, it would be Dixie Kong (although I want Ridley far more) since she was actually intended to be in Brawl.

Same reason why I support Isaac and an Advance Wars character. Through the Japanese perspective both of their series are nothing special, so they will probably never get a playable character in Smash Bros., while for us Westerners, they are special Nintendo franchises.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Eh, I might as well quit being neutral and pick sides, lol.

Totally support:
Pichu
Ridley
Sukapon
Lyn
Issac
Tails
Andy/Sami

Maybe:
Samurai Goroh
Dixie
Black Shadow
Knucles
Waluigi
Shadow
Everyone else