Chrono Trigger Mafia: Omni and Scamp Win! Adumbrodeus wins!

[DMG]

Just because other people choose to play more aggressively with their first day interrogations and information gathering doesn't mean I'm now scum for not following suit that aggressively. If I were being useless, I would be voting for a time period for no reason, voting for someone just because they used "Me" instead of "I", going against what town strongly thinks is best on purpose, etc.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Just because other people choose to play more aggressively with their first day interrogations and information gathering doesn't mean I'm now scum for not following suit that aggressively. If I were being useless, I would be voting for a time period for no reason, voting for someone just because they used "Me" instead of "I", going against what town strongly thinks is best on purpose, etc.

Actually, the lack of aggression is what makes you less useful to town, not scummy. The fact is that the town NEEDS information to win, and not aggressively scumhunting severely hurts that goal.


It's going for whatever the town thinks that makes you scummy, and your attempt to pass it off as scumhunting.



Doesn't prove you're scum, but you've certainly gave some strong indicators to that effect.

 

[CT Chia]

But Adum I have. SL talked, his explanation was Bout the same that he's given a few times.

Also consider this: My vote on SL is changeable. His (and others) votes on time travel are not changeable. Are you really more suspicious of a changeable vote (even if you don't agree with it) than a non changeable vote on time travel?

Yes, I really am more suspicious of it. Your voting for someone to be taken out of the game compared to time travel. Lynch voting is infinitely more important.

Unvote

The more I think about things I'm starting to not think as bad of Rajam, though I would rather not say why now.

--
Also btw for mods I'm starting a game in the Legion of Doom. Signups are going on now for those who are interested.

 

[Omni]

ok im thinking we should start pushing towards a lynch and forcing a claim. i can only guess Lavos would get a safe nameclaim but i doubt he'd get a safe role claim

rajam, shadowlink, or dmg imo.

 

[Omni]

oh and where the **** is scamp? os, can you place a prod on scamp please

 

[Scamp]

Prod: Scamp

Did it for you.


Anyway, going through there's simply a ton of flavor talk and a lot of bickering. So in all honesty I don't have a lot of reliable information. Not that I should expect so much out of day 1, and I think a lot of people fall into this category of expecting too much. But I'll list what's on my mind.


I don't agree with Shadowlink's grasp of flavor on this game at all, but that doesn't make him scummy either. It just means that he's relying on the flavor too much.

It wasn't that hard IMO to see what DMG was doing with that vote. People jumping on him like white on rice isn't questionable behavior, however the way Adum did it really makes me question his motivations. It seems he has the town's best interests but he simultaneously made the vote less important while giving DMG easy means to defend himself. I really think Adum should have known better than to question the vote and explain everything instead of just questioning and letting DMG answer. I also don't really buy Adum's accusation based on how he played in the last game.

I don't understand why Pierce suggested, way back when, to let Omni decide where to go but not let him go where he clearly wants to go. Anyone other than Omni catch this?

I think Shaya needs to be pressured more.

Rajam....I think the guy is afraid to post now. Lawls.

Finally, the worst offender so far is Chibo IMO. At least he's been kind of active recently, but he's clearly not in the game as much as he should be. Most of the time he quotes things and replies to them individually and not within the context of the game. I also like how he's advertising another game in this game and that he just unvoted without even voting first. Oy.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It wasn't that hard IMO to see what DMG was doing with that vote. People jumping on him like white on rice isn't questionable behavior, however the way Adum did it really makes me question his motivations. It seems he has the town's best interests but he simultaneously made the vote less important while giving DMG easy means to defend himself. I really think Adum should have known better than to question the vote and explain everything instead of just questioning and letting DMG answer. I also don't really buy Adum's accusation based on how he played in the last game.

How do you figure?

How did I give DMG and easy way to defend himself, while making it less important (I specifically stated how close we were to lynch after all)?

I never gave him a pro-town explanation that he could defend himself with (and quite frankly, I can't see one) and managed to catch him in another trap beyond the scum slip he had.


Also, what do you mean "based on how I played the last game", I seem to remember talking to you as well after the game ended, asking if I improved over the course of the game because of how stupid my early play was.


If I recognized that my earlier play was stupid, I would be DENSE to play the same way again.

I don't understand why Pierce suggested, way back when, to let Omni decide where to go but not let him go where he clearly wants to go. Anyone other than Omni catch this?

Wha-what?

My understanding of that convo was that nobody who picked a period gets their first choice.

 

[ShadowLink84]

The above post was addressed to Rajam. Ninja'd by Shadowlink.

Also Shadowlink, what do you think of what I said to you in post #300? Please respond to it...Do you understand the difference between you and Omni's actions or do you still think he was in the wrong just as much as you despite you committing with the vote?

I do think that my commitment to it by voting does make it seem worse, but I don't believe that to be the case.
Why?
We should take advantage of time traveling.
It will provide us information and because we are odd numbered, would be far too difficult to go to EOT which is what I am against because of its requirement.
I also think it would be too difficult for scum to manipulate the vote unless town happened to choose the same era as scum would want.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Wha-what?

My understanding of that convo was that nobody who picked a period gets their first choice.

No, he had wanted Omni to to pick an era (outside the one's chosen thus far) and for that to be the one town chose.

 

[Shaya]

Today I have yet to see true "scum-tells";

In reality one of the few things we have to go on is the flavour that is imbued into the game's mechanics; that is voting for a time line. This obviously has left Rajam, ShadowLink and Chibo as having the main notoriety of the day. As I've already mentioned, Chibo has casually "thrown away" his connection abruptly after shadowlink posted his reasoning (planned perhaps?).
There has been a huge over-reliance on flavour. Pierce has become the main spectre on EoT, even though I believe Edrees first mentioned it; Pierce has continued to take the steam for all of it whilst Edrees has avoided any persecution.
The three players of other notoriety have been Adum, DMG, and joel.
I can't even wrap my head around why joel chose to immaturely argue without it being a posting restriction of sorts; I had guessed it may have had to do with voting but I guessed wrong (?). Omni deciding to vote for shadowlink based on "where's your avatar from", but chose not to continue to pressure joel. He directly stated that "Adum is scum/mafia", which I would find odd for someone to come out and state with such certainty day one.
Adum has been a centrepiece for his aggressiveness, but I don't see him as scum... Everyone he has accused has been suspicious enough to deserve it, and most of the responses he obtains have not been exactly clearing.
DMG has had a recent stint but I can't exactly see him as being scum at the moment either.

Inactive(s) worth mentioning are Rajam and Scamp. But there have definitely been more worthy players to pressure this day. Even though I think I'll come to enjoy Scamp's eternal "shaya-prod" abilities throughout the games we play, him saying he'll be playing a different style in this game to then go back to something similar as FF6 mafia makes me ponder (even though he is saying "life calls").

 

[ShadowLink84]

Joel' argument started after he had been voted for by Adumbrodeus I believe.
I really don't like the way Rajam has been playing.
He wants to keep the inactives alive? Why?

It is stuff like that which causes scum pounces like last game.

 

[Shaya]

I didn't say I want to keep inactives alive.

Both of them are of a different creed to last game's inactives as well.
One seems to be too awkward being new at the game to understand what he should be posting (even though I may be over defending him for this),
the other is being from what i've seen thus far, normal scamp.

 

[Shaya]

pointing fingers at others players extremely fast aren't you

But please, try to reverse some of the heat onto me even though you're pretty much at the top of my list.

 

[Scamp]

How do you figure?

How did I give DMG and easy way to defend himself, while making it less important (I specifically stated how close we were to lynch after all)?

I never gave him a pro-town explanation that he could defend himself with (and quite frankly, I can't see one) and managed to catch him in another trap beyond the scum slip he had.


Also, what do you mean "based on how I played the last game", I seem to remember talking to you as well after the game ended, asking if I improved over the course of the game because of how stupid my early play was.


If I recognized that my earlier play was stupid, I would be DENSE to play the same way again.

Forgive me, and I apologize, but you're right. You didn't give DMG an easy way to defend himself and what I was trying to express came across very poorly. Allow me to re-elaborate.

What has happened is that DMG has tunneled onto your arguments in order to defend himself. In this respect, I don't think the points you've brought up have put any actual pressure on him. Let's go take a look.

So if it's a pressure vote, why no reasoning, why no questions, most importantly, WHY NO ATTEMPT TO GAIN INFORMATION?


This strikes me as extremely scummy in that you seem to be going for an easy bandwagon in order to:

A. appear active and pro-town through pseudo-scumhunting against easy targets.

B. attempting to create mislynches against easy targets.

or

C. both

It's not hard to see how a pressure vote is an attempt to gain information. I certainly would get annoyed if I had to explain every single move I tried to make.

Your scenerios for his vote are plausible, and he responded to it with....nothing. So you may be onto something here. However, you also didn't really follow this up with much, so I'm wondering about your application of pressure as well.

...

Dear god, if you're town, you're playing like Vult, gambiting by making yourself a lynch target in order to drag out info. You DON'T do that at to l-2, ever, you're risking a lynch.

The thing is, you're not getting anything on the people you're accusing of being suspicious, which by definition means you're getting a lot less out of it.


So... at best you're playing REALLY REALLY useless town, at worst you're probably scum. I find your explanation unlikely.

So yeah, I mean you throw things out there but you don't really get much in response. This isn't your fault by any means, but I personally don't think you're being too effective. At least without support you're not.

DMG, please share what information you have learned or at least explain your defense against the scenerios Adum has brought up.

Also, everyone take a good look at Edrees' post #293 and wonder why that got buried.

Also wait for a response from Edrees' post #300 from SL.

Edrees is pretty passive-agressive too.

 

[Scamp]

Oh hey Shaya. Please enlighten me as to styles in the game of mafia and how mine works. Then please ponder how much of a change is necessary to make a change.

I would be happy if you and Omni could actually express what you'd like out of me rather than blanket my style or randomly ask where I am.

Why is Omni your top suspect, BTW?

 

[Shaya]

I said omni is my top suspect?
I only said I found it odd he was willing to start a bandwagon on shadow for "all things" + immaturity but not joel for something similar.

Last game you had a particular passive but assertive style, you started off this game differently but have gone back. I personally think your investigative skills/style are great for town (you pick up on things others didn't put much attention to at the time). So from my view you have had a bit of a style change, even though you stated you were going to play differently this game.

 

[Omni]

shaya has interesting things to say when he talks
give me a sec

 

[Omni]

Omni deciding to vote for shadowlink based on "where's your avatar from", but chose not to continue to pressure joel. He directly stated that "Adum is scum/mafia", which I would find odd for someone to come out and state with such certainty day one.

1.) Do you think I voted ShadowLink on the sole basis of that single post he made?

2.) Tell me directly how you define my post where I made the comment, "Is it hard to scumhunting when you're scum?" towars Adumbrodeus.

you have a strange way of interpreting things for the worse case scenario

I said omni is my top suspect?
I only said I found it odd he was willing to start a bandwagon on shadow for "all things" + immaturity but not joel for something similar.

But please, try to reverse some of the heat onto me even though you're pretty much at the top of my list.

?

shaya do you even realize what you're spouting or are you just spouting for the sake of spouting to look like you're actively scumhunting?

who do you think is the play for the day

 

[Omni]

@scamp: what kind of question is that? what else would i want from you if im asking overswarm to prod you?

o do u need me to sit you down and teach you how to play mafia? i didnt know i had to hold your hand

 

[DMG]

The thing is, I'm really not expecting to get that much out of people from questioning them, aggressively or not. I don't expect Day 1 to reveal much besides potentials and possibilities. Maybe Adum thinks my prospects of finding out that much valuable info are too low and feels I'm not being optimistic enough for town?

As for this: "This strikes me as extremely scummy in that you seem to be going for an easy bandwagon in order to:

A. appear active and pro-town through pseudo-scumhunting against easy targets.

B. attempting to create mislynches against easy targets.

or

C. both"

It was a vote for the purpose of seeing how you all would respond. This early into the day of course it's not final or extremely serious. Best case scenario I expected was that someone would slip up and either do something that looked very fishy, like voting for SL after I did with a weak explination, or that SL would put up a stronger response trying to get the focus off of him. Whether he is actual scum or not is up for grabs, my thoughts are that he is not, but by voting for him I have been able to gauge some of these reactions and judge how they corresponded with earlier posts or patterns.

What I considered possible (Easy strategy, nothing complicated) is that both Adum and SL are scum, and Adum went after my vote which seems like an easy target to shift focus from SL, but then I realized that other people already had their suspicions of SL and scum would either collaborate further to seek out a target in tandem (without having too similar of reasons with each other) and the possibility of those two being scum together statistically is low, so I threw that out the window. More complicated, I thought about Scamp and Adum being scum together, one being aggressive against my actions and the other defending them somewhat and then asking calmly for an explanation but that probably isn't the case either.

If you can tell, I'm looking not just for how 1 person might look scummy, but how combinations of people might act and respond scummy and get away with it better than if you tried to examine 1 person at a time alone. People that act too similar, people that contrast strongly, half and half, etc.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I didn't say I want to keep inactives alive.

Both of them are of a different creed to last game's inactives as well.
One seems to be too awkward being new at the game to understand what he should be posting (even though I may be over defending him for this),
the other is being from what i've seen thus far, normal scamp.

i was referring to Rajam,

 

[Shaya]

Why is Omni your top suspect, BTW?

^ Did you notice this Omni?

1.

I found it odd he was willing to start a bandwagon on shadow for "all things" + immaturity but not joel for something similar.

So, no.

2.

Tell me directly how you define my post where I made the comment, "Is it hard to scumhunting when you're scum?" towars Adumbrodeus.

I have not found you saying this within the last 3 pages (80-120 posts). Please show me so I can fully see the context (even though I could guess if you'd prefer me to).

-

ShadowLink and Chibo have voted for 2300 AD without any proper town discussion before hand. Chibo has attempted to discard his vote as "oops", possibly to avoid being pressured by the obvious connection.

Either of them have raised flags for me. So, unless I'm missing something major about adum as you seem to be insinuating, I'm not seeing any other obvious choices.

Also Omni, I'm not sure what you're getting at with your accusations. You seem to be going full blow on small/minor things a lot this game.
*chibo joins the game*
"he said your instead of our"
"you're a scummyscummyscummyscum" <- Wait, you didn't even really comment on this, even though you had joel listed as one of your 'suspects' for the day.
"lol where's your avatar from lol"
and now you're on scamp for questioning your 'pressure' as well as myself for (I guess) misinterpreting who Shadowlink was talking to.

 

[Omni]

it's called tells, shaya

some are scummy. some are silly. however, slips like those whether syntax or not can be unintentional and good leads for pressuring and getting more information. it's called playing mafia.

.joel has been much more involved with scumhunting whereas shadowlink is been playing a pure flavor game the entire game. regardless i am putting the same pressure on both players for the same reasons and have done the same actions towards them. can you tell me what i've done different with shadowlink?

and dont guess. you obviously spotted it somewhere so point out your suspicions on me correctly

 

[Shaya]

Oh I know what the miscommunication here is (I think):

He directly stated that "Adum is scum/mafia", which I would find odd for someone to come out and state with such certainty day one.

He refers to joel.
Joel said that adum was mafia, with some certainty behind his words.

But I am interested in what you are referring to now. Did you say something as definitive as that?

 

[Omni]

ah yup miscommunication indeed

i want more from you adumbrodeus.

you're extremely quiet this game. are you having a difficult time trying to scumhunt because you're the actual scum this game?

thought u were referring to this remark

 

[Omni]

ah yup miscommunication indeed

i want more from you adumbrodeus.

you're extremely quiet this game. are you having a difficult time trying to scumhunt because you're the actual scum this game?

thought u were referring to this remark

 

[Pierce7d]

Hmm, a LOT of things strike me as odd, but not everyone can be scummy, lol. I understand the need for curious actions when scum hunting, I'm just interested in what's actually scumtell. For instance, I'm still not comfortable with the way DMG hopped on that bandwagon, but I'm also not sure if it counts as scummy since there were still 2 votes to go. Lots of interesting things going on for day one, I'm not disappointed.

I like the way DMG goes about scumhunting, since it's the way I go about scumhunting.

I was called into question about my request on Omni to pick the timezone, but not his choice, but I believe it was explained that the reason was so that no one got their first choice. Omni and Adam SEEM to check out on that issue for now.

To be completely honest, I would also like to go to 600 A.D. for storyline purposes, and that creates three of us. If I get 2 more posts of agreement (looking at Omni, Edrees, Adam here), then I will cast the first vote for 600 A.D. AND I EXPECT ANYONE WHO'S TOWN TO COMPLY WITH THIS MAJORITY OR POST A SOLID REASON FOR STOPPING PROGRESS.

I feel like quite a bit has happened, and I really want to lynch Shadowlink, because I'm just straight up uncomfortable with his plays (opting to point fingers at others instead of properly defending himself, following flavor like it's prewritten, poorly scumhunting, etc). Despite other people seeming scummy at times, he's very often scummy seeming, and NOT someone I want any longer than I have to deal with. Most of you seem to agree with me, and I would like to end the day with a lynch on Shadowlink, just after we vote for a time period. I feel like gaining a lynch will give us the information we need to make the next move, and with a reasonable amount of momentum, perhaps the time travel will reveal some information.

So, my agenda:

1) Agree on a time period, preferably 600 A.D.. I don't mind casting my vote first, so long as at least 2 other people back the agreement. Also, if you think we should wait until more than 2 people agree out loud, say so.

2) Vote for that time period.

3) Lynch Shadowlink.

 

[Red Arremer]

Joel said that adum was mafia, with some certainty behind his words.

Adumbrodeus was playing the exact same strategy I played against him in FF6 mafia, where I was scum and he was town. This was basically me saying "Man, I am watching you, you can't pull the same trick I used on me."

Not to mention that going by his course of action, and his opinion that only his way of scumhunting is the only true way to find scum (which he expressed numerous times), make him, to me, a likely candidate for being scum. Look how he plays: He tries to aggressively put pressure onto other players by voting for them. He also doesn't open the possibility of them "not being scummy", because frankly, he just rambles on and on for the same reason although the player already explained themselves.
He did it with me and my No Lynch vote. He did it with DMG and his vote on SL. Just from the top of my head.

Although his initial course of action (questioning players for their doings and putting pressure on them for more information), his whole "I drag out the matter more and more until you give the answer I want to hear (which you don't know or possibly cannot give)" seems to be a huge distraction tactic. And seriously, look how much he involved other players into those drawn out discussions, not only the accused players, but also others. In fact, he is the one majorly distracting from other matters. If he IS town, he actually is playing just as bad as he did in the earlier game.


Lastly: The "scummyscummyscum" line was just being silly. My God, I was trying to ease up the tension a bit, how awful and scummy from me. <_<

 

[Red Arremer]

Argh... fingers were faster than brain, I just got up:
Look how he plays: He tries to aggressively put pressure onto other players by voting for them. That might be good, but it's also an easy tactic for scum to use to look like they were hunting scum. [...]

Although his initial course of action (questioning players for their doings and putting pressure on them for more information) is good, his whole "I drag [...]

 

[Omni]

why do you want to lynch shadowlink specifically @ Pierce

how do you feel about rajam, dmg, and .joel

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I'm on board with voting 600 AD, as long as we get 3-4 people to confirm they'll vote for it. So yeah I'm down.

Also Omni why did you suggest we come to a close with our lynch votes soon? We have until Wednesday. Best to get as much information as possible before we move on so we can draw more conclusions from the result of the lynch and anything that happens during Night 1, yes?

Also Scamp raises a good point about my post #293:

WOW DMG. That bandwagon vote came out of nowhere. I agree with Adumbrodeus' case against you, and ALSO, if you are suspicious of Shadowlink for his flavor based reason on voting 2300 AD, why are not suspicious of Chibo for voting for the time period for no reason, or suspicious of Rajam for his vote on his time period for no reason?

If that's the ONLY thing you got on Shadowlink, and voted him based on that, but waited until there was a bandwagon for it, I find it extremely scummy.

DMG, you never answered my question. Okay, so I can understand why you'd be suspicious of Shadowlink for voting on his reason and so early on the time period. Hey I can even understand why you joined the bangwagon suddenly now that you've explained yourself somewhat - as you said,. it was still L-3 so you could always change your vote. What you didn't answer is why Shadowlink over Chibo /Rajim when they did the exact same thing? Why do you prefer to pressure Shadowlink over these people? I'd appreciate it if you could respond to my questions directly rather than making general replies. I find that dodging the question and trying to avoid spilling information.

Also Shaya you are really confusing me. Why did you say Omni was "at the top of your list" Omni and Scamp just brought it to your attention (maybe its a slip) ...they just asked you and I have no idea what your response even means. You still haven't explained exactly what you meant by Omni being at the top of your list. Top of your list of suspects?

 

[Pierce7d]

Oh, good stuff Edrees, I knew I forgot something

Shaya, speak up. How you gonna say Omni's at the top of your list, then try to almost immediately deny him being one of your main suspects? HELLA SCUMMY.

@ Omni

Rajam is confusing, because he's new, and I don't know how to read new players as well. I'm watching him, I'm suspicious, I'm not feeling him for a day 1 lynch though. Who lynches the new guy on day one for being new. Don't think this means I'll let him keep up with Scummy behavior through day 2 though, it's just for now I think we can agree that we have bigger fish to fry. While a play like voting right away is heavily suspect (because even if you're not scum, it distracts us from scum) it alleviates the threat of his vote, and makes him obvious. For now, I can deal with that.

DMG was quiet, then scummy, but at least some halfway decent stuff came outta his mouth.

You, Omni, are a really good player, and rather confusing while being helpful, making it very tricky to deduce whether you are scum or just hunting. To be honest, to compensate for my inexperience, I'm stealing some of your style. You're not off my suspects list, but you're not high up at all, for now.

I need to review .joel and Adam.

Edrees and Scamp seem O.K. but obviously it's day one, and I'm keeping my eye on everyone.

To me, Shadowlink has been the most scummy by far. Heavily chasing my Time Travel suggestions with a lot of flavor on top of mine, even as I begun to back off the option was distracting to scum hunt. Not giving solid defenses against accusations, or outright ignoring things. Putting pressure on others to redirect pressure on him, instead of being more concerned with defending himself. And BREATHING flavor. Even if he's not scum, he's dangerous to carry around, cause he doesn't seem to be playing like a townie.

That's why I very, greatly would like to lynch Shadowlink today.

 

[Pierce7d]

Oh, and I guess my last post only hinted that Shaya is kinda scummy acting too. Same type of gameplay as last game, but without the johns of not knowing the deal, and outright saying something stupid.

The inactives bother me a lot, but I feel like there's a lot of funny stuff going on to start hitting them yet.

 

[Rajam]

Omni I'll be blatant with my reasoning. Last game, though I wasn't able to play as much, I learned more about what to look for. Now, on Day 1, I find it's beneficial to point out potential things to investigate. I haven't mentioned everything I noticed, because I agree that too much flavor talk isn't good, and some things just aren't smart to point out to Mafia.

I do agree that we should get to the End of Time SOONER in the game rather than later. It's flavor to suggest that the bad guys get bonuses at the end of time (since that's where Lavos would presumably be located) but I thought I'd bring up the idea. Regardless of this, it's the most "neutral" of options, since it's the "default" if you will. That being said, I wanna know what's in store there BEFORE it's forced upon us, and as soon as possible, while town is still powerful.

Even if this is a really old post, it still bugs me your proposition of visiting EoT following a poor logic like this, specially from someone who looks specially careful about trying to restrict to facts as much as possible and suggest only intelligent stuff in general

If it's a punishment zone for town, I'd rather get there NOW, then wait until Mafia has potentially gathered advantage, and can really PUNISH us with it, as well as vote more influentially.


However, we have no clue what it is at all, and it makes more sense for us to visit the "default" zone ASAP, so that town doesn't encounter any unfortunate surprises at a bad time.

Excuse me for metagaming a little here, but this post seems highly irregular compared to your previous ones and those in the previous game. Trying to actively avoid the End of Time zone and pursuing my flavor chat seems just a tad bit scummy to me, especially since I explained my reasoning in the previous post. I can defend my push to go to the End of Time by merely pointed out that it was initially Omni's suggestion, and I felt it was a very solid one for the reasons I listed. I wanna know the real reason you're trying to dodge it.

Vote: Scamp

Speak up sir.

More of the same. Specially notorious is your first two sentences: "If the EoT is a punishment zone, we should visit it now (sometime) instead of bla bla bla..." which bugs me even more: Why should Town ever visit EoT if it's a Punishment Zone, and noting that we can easily avoid it all the time?

Basically this puts you on top of my suspicious list (again)

unvote: .joel
vote: Pierce7d

Also Pierce, when did Omni suggest to visit EoT? Don't remember that post

I'm not sure about this.
As said earlier, specific characters gain specific boons in one or more time zones. These are most likely linked to the time they originated in. Considering that there are more characters in 1000 AD, it's quite possible that there is a character linked to scum (just speaking from a mathematical viewpoint here, as this is the time the most characters are from), however, it's a good chance OS just f*cks with us and nothing of what I speculated now is true.

End of Time was actually not directly related to Lavos. It's the beginning and the end. Due to Lavos' power the actual place with Caspar in it was manifested, and it contained a portal to 1999, but otherwise, it was pretty much the only place not somehow infested with Lavos.

So, in result, I would think that EoT is the place where noone has any boon. Buuuut, I also agree with Scamp that 1000 AD doesn't seem too much of a threat, since Lavos wasn't really touching that timezone iirc.

Interesting theories. A Hero from present actually being a Mafia member? Could be from balance purposes' point of view

I have also addressed the possibilty that in EoT nothing happens. It would mean a wasted day for Town since it's very hard to gather info when nothing occurs, so it isn't contradictory with the "EoT is a punishment Zone for Town" theory

 

[Rajam]

More of the same. Specially notorious is your first two sentences: "If the EoT is a punishment zone, we should visit it now (sometime) instead of bla bla bla..." which bugs me even more: Why should Town ever visit EoT if it's a Punishment Zone, and noting that we can easily avoid it all the time?

Sorry I guess this paragraph isn't very clear. It should read:

More of the same. Specially notorious is your first two sentences: "If the EoT is a punishment zone, we should visit it now (sometime) instead of bla bla bla..." From this, what bugs me even more is: Why should Town ever visit EoT if it's a Punishment Zone, and we can easily avoid it all the time? (not forced to go there really ever)

 

[Scamp]

I don't have any objections with going to 600 AD.

 

[adumbrodeus]

...


I guess Rajam is trying to scumhunt, but I think it's too flavory and open to interpretation.


Rajam, do you have any hard reasons for suspicion of anyone (non-flavor related)?

The thing is, I'm really not expecting to get that much out of people from questioning them, aggressively or not. I don't expect Day 1 to reveal much besides potentials and possibilities. Maybe Adum thinks my prospects of finding out that much valuable info are too low and feels I'm not being optimistic enough for town?

No.

I'm asking, if you're using it as a pressure vote, why didn't you ASK HIM ANYTHING. Omni was pushing for his lynch (understandable, because he's being absolutely useless regardless of his alignment) and he gave a long pattern explaining this choice, plus a good reason when he actually placed his vote.

It was a vote for the purpose of seeing how you all would respond. This early into the day of course it's not final or extremely serious. Best case scenario I expected was that someone would slip up and either do something that looked very fishy, like voting for SL after I did with a weak explination, or that SL would put up a stronger response trying to get the focus off of him. Whether he is actual scum or not is up for grabs, my thoughts are that he is not, but by voting for him I have been able to gauge some of these reactions and judge how they corresponded with earlier posts or patterns.

What I considered possible (Easy strategy, nothing complicated) is that both Adum and SL are scum, and Adum went after my vote which seems like an easy target to shift focus from SL, but then I realized that other people already had their suspicions of SL and scum would either collaborate further to seek out a target in tandem (without having too similar of reasons with each other) and the possibility of those two being scum together statistically is low, so I threw that out the window. More complicated, I thought about Scamp and Adum being scum together, one being aggressive against my actions and the other defending them somewhat and then asking calmly for an explanation but that probably isn't the case either.

If you can tell, I'm looking not just for how 1 person might look scummy, but how combinations of people might act and respond scummy and get away with it better than if you tried to examine 1 person at a time alone. People that act too similar, people that contrast strongly, half and half, etc.

So, you're making yourself look scummy... for WIFORM? Seriously, there are so many equally likely scenarios you could get as a reaction, and odds are since you did an action that looks scummy, you won't get anything pro-town out of it.

I don't buy it DMG, you're smarter then that, and you've been laying too low for it.


Give me a reasonable pro-town explanation.

Adumbrodeus was playing the exact same strategy I played against him in FF6 mafia, where I was scum and he was town. This was basically me saying "Man, I am watching you, you can't pull the same trick I used on me."

Not to mention that going by his course of action, and his opinion that only his way of scumhunting is the only true way to find scum (which he expressed numerous times), make him, to me, a likely candidate for being scum. Look how he plays: He tries to aggressively put pressure onto other players by voting for them. He also doesn't open the possibility of them "not being scummy", because frankly, he just rambles on and on for the same reason although the player already explained themselves.
He did it with me and my No Lynch vote. He did it with DMG and his vote on SL. Just from the top of my head.

Although his initial course of action (questioning players for their doings and putting pressure on them for more information), his whole "I drag out the matter more and more until you give the answer I want to hear (which you don't know or possibly cannot give)" seems to be a huge distraction tactic. And seriously, look how much he involved other players into those drawn out discussions, not only the accused players, but also others. In fact, he is the one majorly distracting from other matters. If he IS town, he actually is playing just as bad as he did in the earlier game.


Lastly: The "scummyscummyscum" line was just being silly. My God, I was trying to ease up the tension a bit, how awful and scummy from me. <_<

I find it amusing how you're suggesting that when last game your tactic was to say something, and then vanish into the shadows, at least until really late game.


I'm going completely the opposite route, playing aggressive from the get-go (like I promised to do).

Now, yes, I could be scum, anybody COULD be scum, but I have yet to do anything that was actually scummy, and your metagame analysis suggests I'm adopting your play when it's very different, from your playstyle, and fundamentally pro-town in nature.

So, show me the goods, if I'm scummy, where's the actual scummy actions? Not the pro-town actions that could be a cover, the actual actions that suggest I'm scum.





Also, if we wanna pick a period, PLEASE use this format...


PoC: [period here]


Since it doesn't count as a vote, we can get a votecount before we commit.



Speaking of which:


PoC: Present


I agree with following the storyline (skipping duplicates), but I'd like to see what effects this period has, which means staying the night since changes take effect in the night.

 

[DMG]

My vote got SL to respond, and obviously got other people to respond. Not all of my actions are trying to target specific people and "profile" them or aggressively go after them.

My considerations on the possibilities were after my vote. I didn't vote for SL expecting my scenarios to be true, especially since I didn't consider them until after I voted. I saw how you and others responded, and said "Hey this is a possibility, keep note of this".

As for why SL over Chibo or Raj: Raj I'm not concerned about. I was more suspicious after he changed his mind and recommended we stay in the present, but I didn't feel that was stronger than SL voting on a time period that early based on flavor and his continual flavor beliefs. Chibo, I was torn. He seemed unfocused and not putting up a strong defense, when questioned. I'm unsure of his intentions or what he is aiming to achieve.

That, and when I saw Omni vote for SL, I decided that to get the most out of my vote to vote for SL as well. If I had voted right then for Chibo in the same manner, it wouldn't have gotten such strong reactions, or nearly as many, which would lessen the information gained from doing that.

 

[Red Arremer]

I find it amusing how you're suggesting that when last game your tactic was to say something, and then vanish into the shadows, at least until really late game.

I'm going completely the opposite route, playing aggressive from the get-go (like I promised to do).

STOP NOT READING WHAT I SAY IN MY POSTS. Seriously, it's getting ANNOYING.

Only the very first paragraph was actually referring to the last game. ONLY THE FIRST.

Now, yes, I could be scum, anybody COULD be scum, but I have yet to do anything that was actually scummy, and your metagame analysis suggests I'm adopting your play when it's very different, from your playstyle, and fundamentally pro-town in nature.

So, show me the goods, if I'm scummy, where's the actual scummy actions? Not the pro-town actions that could be a cover, the actual actions that suggest I'm scum.

Alright, there you go:

Not to mention that going by his course of action, and his opinion that only his way of scumhunting is the only true way to find scum (which he expressed numerous times), make him, to me, a likely candidate for being scum. Look how he plays: He tries to aggressively put pressure onto other players by voting for them. That might be good, but it's also an easy tactic for scum to use to look like they were hunting scum. He also doesn't open the possibility of them "not being scummy", because frankly, he just rambles on and on for the same reason although the player already explained themselves.
He did it with me and my No Lynch vote. He did it with DMG and his vote on SL. Just from the top of my head.

Although his initial course of action (questioning players for their doings and putting pressure on them for more information) is good, his whole "I drag out the matter more and more until you give the answer I want to hear (which you don't know or possibly cannot give)" seems to be a huge distraction tactic. And seriously, look how much he involved other players into those drawn out discussions, not only the accused players, but also others. In fact, he is the one majorly distracting from other matters. If he IS town, he actually is playing just as bad as he did in the earlier game.

To add in on that: You are really pushing it with your "OMG, I'm so pro-town, and nothing I do could even be considered anti-town! I'm not the least scummy AT ALL!"
Well guess what, sweetiepie, you are pretty scummy in my eyes.

I find it awkward that I'm being ignored yet again by literally anybody. Does nobody else have something to state on my theory other than adumbrodeus not reading them?

 

[Red Arremer]

Actually, you're dragging out DMG's unexplained vote for SL in your very post.

You are acting scummy, cause you keep other players from scumhunting, and call your distraction tactics scumhunting. You are pushing the attention to minor stupid things, and keep them overshadowing actually really important things. If that is pro-town, I dunno if I understood the very concept of the game mafia as a whole.