Chrono Trigger Mafia: Omni and Scamp Win! Adumbrodeus wins!

[DMG]

I wanted to block a period we hadn't gone to that seems worse for us than Mafia based on Flavor. If we are to believe Raj, we at least know that we have a beneficial power for us in 2300 AD. Chibo also suggested that we go there and he was town so I trusted that period. 600 AD I was wary of because Omni suggested it and I was uncertain of Independents motives, but people hardly mentioned 12,000 BC.

Basically I chose between 600 AD and 12,000 BC. 12,000 BC to me seemed like it could be worse than 600 AD, so that's why I picked it.

 

[Rajam]

Is the only way to get rid of Lavos spawns to be killed? Can't they be "healed"?

@ Omni
Scummiest: Shaya, Pierce
Want to claim: Shaya or Pierce, and the 2nd should be adumbrodeus

Also, some tentative roles not claimed yet:
Frog
Lavos
Magus
???

I really wonder who the ??? role could be

 

[Rajam]

This is flavor, but maybe Lavos and the spawn from day 1 are the only Mafia in the game ( well, most likely there are more now... ), and maybe Lavos can't be killed until all Lavos spawns are dead? ( idk, that would mean Town can only kill Lavos after Omni & Scamp win? )

I'm really worried about Lavos, because i don't think is easy to kill him... even if we find who Lavos is

 

[Rajam]

Omni, after re-reading your win condition again, I have some questions:

Do you win automatically once all of Lavos spawns are exterminated, or do you have to do something after that?

 

[Red Arremer]

Scummiest: Shaya, Edrees
Wanting to claim: Shaya, Edrees

Pierce I'm not sure.

Also, good that Omni and Scamp are town-aligned indies... that helps a lot.

 

[Rajam]

Another question to the indies:
What was your condition to be revived?

 

[Omni]

@rajam: its called an exit win. lavos spawn are terminated. we are then forcefully removed from the game because we satisfied our condition

revealing our revive condition probably wouldnt be in both ours and towns best interest in terms of keeping us alive or reviving ourselves to make sure the mafia/town+indy ratio doesn't overthrow us.

we're pretty harmless in many ways, but have many ways of staying alive/coming back to life

also lets just chill for a moment and hear what the rest of the crew has to say about the earlier post. just to make sure it wasnt missed because of 2nd pagesies:

anyway, VERY interested to see where everyone's suspicions lie WITHOUT interference or influence from the rest of the cast. if possible (this will be helpful) can everyone give me:

1.) their top 2 who is scum candidates
2.) their top 2 who should roleclaim first candidates

without saying anything else. the information we get from non-interactive, non-responsive requests like these will be VERY helpful in determining our next step. if we influence the choices by our reactions or responses then scum can easily change their suspicions to lie elsewhere that makes them more comfortable

 

[adumbrodeus]

Shaya, I just thought of something.


You seemed to increase your suspicion of Pierce after the possibility was mentioned of lavos being immune to things if we were in the wrong period...


You visited Pierce night 1, what was the result?



Don't have much of a chance to post, I'll respond to omni's question late tonight.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

My top 2 scum candidates are

1) Joel
2) Shaya

Joel already role claimed, but I'm still not sure if I believe him. I just get the feeling his hammer on Chibo was intentional. It doesn't seem like a mistake to me...because that's one really really stupid mistake. When I put Chibo into L-2 i was REALLY careful to make sure he wasn't close to being voted off, reading through everyones post to see if I missed any votes, since the last vote count that OS had done. Joel either isn't this careful (terrible town play) or is scum, so he's at the top. ESPECIALLY because he role claimed with NOBODY pressuring him - I have suspicions that it's because he's scum. He doesn't need to fear scum targeting him because he is one, that's why he had no problem throwing out his ability in the open.

I'm suspicious of Shaya still because he won't tell us why he visited Pierce. I still feel comfortable with Pierce though, however it's gonna be hard to get anything out of him because we know he's at MLG, so I'd rather focus on these two for now. If Pierce was visited but didn't die, I find it less likely he's scum as compared to Shaya who did the visiting. This is why I want a claim out of Shaya, other than wanting myself to claim, that just leaves Pierce and Adumb - not many people left to claim. In short

Scums

1) Joel
2) Shaya

Want to claim's

1) Shaya
2) Adumb/Pierce (nobody left besides them)

However, I'm very bothered by you Omni (as well as scamp who probably doesn't even know he's revived from the looks of it). You claim that you just need lavos spawn to die to win. BUT, why wouldn't you just be classified as town if that were the case!? Because you don't need lavos himself dead? This still puts you at odds with town. Maybe you can agree with us to kill lavos first, then kill off lavos spawn. But to you that's a waste because you want lavos spawn dead. Our goals are in conflict and this is a problem I'm uncomfortable having an independently aligned player leading the charge for town, you have a conflict of interest with us. I'm surprised nobody else has any issues with this.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Sorry, bad logic on my part. Pierce wouldn't die from a Shaya visit, he might get turned into lavos spawn, and we wouldn't know if that happened or not. My mistake. In that case, we really need Shaya to post and tell us why he visited Pierce because if he doesn't have a good reason or a good claim, then we know to suspect Pierce as well.

 

[Red Arremer]

I WAS pressured.

If you don't believe me I can commit suicide by voting. I've been wanting to leave the game anyway. <_<

 

[Red Arremer]

And it WAS a mistake. -_-

 

[Omni]

@Edreeses: note: not saying much until the rest (specifically Shaya and Adumbrodeus) respond to my question

tho im not sure if i like u too much right now; especially .Joel being at the top of your list targeting the only doc and more than likely not being the largest spawn candidate considering he released the information about lavos spawn yesterday which fits his description. u seem to sewing several seeds of distrust.

like i said theres more (especially regarding me and scamp) but i would rather way for key people to answer key questions without us influencing them

 

[Scamp]

I must say, the things people are choosing to focus on are very interesting.

Edrees I know I'm alive, but I don't really need to say anything unless Omni and I disagree on something.

 

[Shaya]

1.) their top 2 who is scum candidates
2.) their top 2 who should roleclaim first candidates

1. Pierce. Second is hard... Joel
2. Well there's myself, piece, edrees, adum who haven't claimed...
Pierce, edrees.

-

I tried to use my role first night on Pierce, it failed though. One of the main reasons I've been thinking he was scum since, even though the chance of there being a role blocker was apparent to me as well. Why I believe for the time being it's the former was because I wasn't under "pressure" from anyone day 1, only Chibo gave me a vote, and he ended up using his role on me night one.
Unfortunately I cannot use my ability again unless I reach a specific condition.

I can tell you what my ability is and/or what the condition is.

I'll also reveal that there should be someone who can night kill in this game. People should still be wary of things that may allude to them getting a condition for it (like Edrees' thing in FF6).

 

[Rajam]

Chibo was a tracker, not a role-blocker.

Who do you think role-blocked you that Night?

 

[Shaya]

Rajam, exactly. He wasn't a role blocker.

I don't know who would role block me night one. That's why I find it failing on him suspicious.

 

[Omni]

rajam, leave it at that. be patient and let everyone else answer the questions

i promise it will be very good info

 

[adumbrodeus]

Shaya, I don't think you were roleblocked.


I visited Pierce night 1 actually, and I got the same result, a flat-out failure. Having 2 people roleblocked night 1 seems impossible.


So I actually had a nagging suspicion of him for the same reason.





Top 2 Scum choices:

1. Rajam
2. DMG

Way down...

3. Shaya/Joel


Rajam is AGAIN managing to make a massive improvement in play right after night...

As far as DMG, his simple lack of involvement and commitment.


Joel's maneuver was stupid, but it fits with his general noobishness this game, he was able to play scum last game cause he wasn't appropriately pressured so he blended in, so he's getting very frustrated in this game.


Shaya's story seems to fit, including why he REALLY was suspicious of Pierce, however I'm unsure of what that means as far as Pierce's alignment, hence I'm not as suspicious.



Who I want to claim:

1. Just Pierce, for the reasons I stated above, I am unsure of what his seeming night action immunity means for town.

 

[adumbrodeus]

No, I don't have a second choice, nobody else seems to be relevant and I'd prefer we limit the damage from claiming.

 

[DMG]

Naw bro I've been involved. You should know by now I'm not scum.

 

[adumbrodeus]

DMG, the term for what you've been doing is "active lurking", and even then it's "semi-active".

You've got a confirmed power, but we cannot be sure whether it's a town or scum power.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Wow, I came to check this thread thinking I missed a crapload but I've missed almost nothing. However I do have some comments. I am ridiculously tired on very few sleep, I will post throoughly in like 4-5 hours from now.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I WAS pressured.

If you don't believe me I can commit suicide by voting. I've been wanting to leave the game anyway. <_<

No need to do something so drastic, I was just questioning it. You seem very adamant about it rather than making excuses, so that is a good sign.

@Edreeses: note: not saying much until the rest (specifically Shaya and Adumbrodeus) respond to my question

tho im not sure if i like u too much right now; especially .Joel being at the top of your list targeting the only doc and more than likely not being the largest spawn candidate considering he released the information about lavos spawn yesterday which fits his description. u seem to sewing several seeds of distrust.

I was just bothered by the hammer and the claim despite being pressured. What reasons does a town doc have to claim if nobody asks them to claim? You can't tell me you don't find that odd behavior - someone just claiming out of the blue. I have no problems with sewing seeds of distrust when I find players suspicious. You seem to be distrusting of me yourself, when Im the only player who is calling you out on the whole independent thing. Your win conditions can directly conflict with town's win conditions, I don't entirely trust your motivations for much. For example I prefer to lynch Lavos before we try to lynch Lavos Spawn. Then doesn't town automatically win since Lavos spawn can no longer be recruited and town is gauranteed an auto win from there? However, you independents lose if we kill Lavos before the Lavos spawn are dead. Isn't this true!? I am assuming Lavos spawn nor lavos can kill, especially considering so far in both nights there have been no kills, just likely recruits. I am the only one pressing you on this stuff and it's unsettling to me that you'd be suspicious of me suddenly.

like i said theres more (especially regarding me and scamp) but i would rather way for key people to answer key questions without us influencing them

Hmm true..okay then.

1. Pierce. Second is hard... Joel
2. Well there's myself, piece, edrees, adum who haven't claimed...
Pierce, edrees.

-

I tried to use my role first night on Pierce, it failed though. One of the main reasons I've been thinking he was scum since, even though the chance of there being a role blocker was apparent to me as well. Why I believe for the time being it's the former was because I wasn't under "pressure" from anyone day 1, only Chibo gave me a vote, and he ended up using his role on me night one.
Unfortunately I cannot use my ability again unless I reach a specific condition.


I can tell you what my ability is and/or what the condition is.

I'll also reveal that there should be someone who can night kill in this game. People should still be wary of things that may allude to them getting a condition for it (like Edrees' thing in FF6).

Really need Pierce to give his input before I go any more on this, so I'll wait.

 

[Omni]

However, you independents lose if we kill Lavos before the Lavos spawn are dead. Isn't this true!? I am assuming Lavos spawn nor lavos can kill, especially considering so far in both nights there have been no kills, just likely recruits. I am the only one pressing you on this stuff and it's unsettling to me that you'd be suspicious of me suddenly.

when did i ever say that we lose if Lavos dies? our win condition is to eliminate the spawn. that means if spawn is alive at the end of the game and town wins or loses, we still lose.

also, im not knocking u for questioning the indies. i was knocking u for being so stuck on .joel when i find his play super townish.

did everyone answer all the questions? so far it looks like the top two candidates for lynches were shaya and pierce. if u two would please do the honors without holding anything back that would be nice

 

[Rajam]

vote: Pierce

I'll unvote and vote for whom I believe as top scum after Pierce answers the previous questions

 

[Overswarm]

Votes Count

Shaya (1)- Edrees
Pierce (1)- Rajam


12,000 BC is locked and you may not vote for it

Time Periods:
(no votes)

A deadline has been set for Monday, May 14th, at 3:00 p.m. EST
With 9 players remaining, it takes 5 to lynch!

 

[EdreesesPieces]

when did i ever say that we lose if Lavos dies? our win condition is to eliminate the spawn. that means if spawn is alive at the end of the game and town wins or loses, we still lose.

also, im not knocking u for questioning the indies. i was knocking u for being so stuck on .joel when i find his play super townish.

did everyone answer all the questions? so far it looks like the top two candidates for lynches were shaya and pierce. if u two would please do the honors without holding anything back that would be nice

r
Well, I'm going under the assumption that anyone turned into spawn cannot create other spawn, since that would be broken and the game would already be over, since it would exponentially give mafia more recruits each night (1 first night, 2 the second, 4 the third) So, going under this assumption, if as town we are to lynch whoever is Lavos, town would automatically win, since our numbers would be in the majority and the game would be over, and as you said, you would lose. To me, it seems like independents have to protect Lavos and try to convince town to go for spawn rather than Lavos himself, whereas it's in town's interest just to try to focus on Lavos. However, if Lavos spawn can either kill or recruit, which they have a decent chance of doing, then I agree, our goals are not at odds.

From all this, I just don't think we have enough information about lavos spawn or mafia to decide if independents are indeed "town aligned indeed" as Joel said.

Omni, I'm gonna quote you from FF6 mafia:

Also find it interesting that you threw out the idea that moogles could be independents. Independents need to die just as much as mafia. Any role that is not town aligned is scum.

And while I find Joel less scummy now (he's very consistent in that his hammer on Chibo was just a mistake), you can't act like I didn't have good reasons for finding him suspicious. Joel hammered on Chibo when Chibo ended town, and town's general intent was to get a claim out of Chibo rather than a lynch. He said it was an accident because he didn't thoroughly read my post. Then, he makes the assertion that independents are town aligned and it's nice to have you guys. I was probably wrong that Joel was the most scummiest, but it's not like it was out of the question just because he made a claim that hasn't been verified.

Pierce needs to hurry up and post so Shaya can give us more details on his visit. I am for forcing a claim out of Shaya, I'd like to see Pierce's response because I am for him doing the same. Pierce, chime in, MLG is over. FoS: Pierce

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I made a mistake, it would give them 3 recruits on the 3rd night, not 4.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Also to clarify, I'd prefer to keep both Omni and Scamp in the game, as independents can indeed help us with their numbers in lynching and removing mafia. I'm just warning everyone not to forgot their true alignment and be weary of backstabbing in the future if the time came, since the win conditions are not directly aligned.

 

[Omni]

what why are u making ******** interpretations from what i just said, edreeses?

1.) why do you think that lynching lavos = auto gg? did you not listen to .joel when he said nightkills are in this game and should not be discounted for? just because lavos is gone doesnt mean the spawn (mafia) can continue tricking town into lynching themselves

2.) no, our objective is to get rid of the spawn but that does not mean we cannot also get rid of lavos. it would probably be better to get Lavos FIRST so he can stop making spawns so it would be easier on us to win our win condition. again, you are making more silly interpretations/assumptions without really putting much thought into it

indy are scum in the sense that we are normally liabilities. however, in a recruit game we are far from that when our presence keeps scum from overthrowing the game AND our mission objective somewhat correlates with towns. there's no conflict of interest like you are stating. imo, it seems like you're more interested in getting town to start focusing on us indys and a doc rather than finding lavos itself.

 

[Rajam]

I want the responses

 

[Omni]

yea shaya and pierce are being pretty lame

 

[DMG]

Pierce, who are you and what do you do?

Are you the Muffin Man?

 

[Scamp]

Are we up to date on our prods?

 

[Shaya]

Sorry I thought you said
"waiting for everyone to respond before we continue on".

You also said after everyone responded you were going to provide some sort of "good information".

As neither of those had come yet and "if u two would please do the honors without holding anything back that would be nice" is ambiguous to me as to what you want, and little else has happened thus far, I've been that tad bit quiet. I admit that, sure. Do you want me to just outright state who I am/my ability?

Also Overswarm, you gave a votecount, but unlike yesterday you haven't stated that either myself or joel "cannot vote today". Why?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Shaya, I'd just like you to respond to my question... please?

 

[Shaya]

I didn't spot a question in your last few posts and I thought I answered the one @ 1048.

Which question are you referring to? Was it from yesterday?

 

[adumbrodeus]

I might've missed your response then, but your visit to Pierce, what was the result of the ability (not what did it do, was it a success or failure)?

 

[Shaya]

I thought I already distinctively said it failed. You even replied:

Shaya's story seems to fit, including why he REALLY was suspicious of Pierce, however I'm unsure of what that means as far as Pierce's alignment, hence I'm not as suspicious.



Who I want to claim:

1. Just Pierce, for the reasons I stated above, I am unsure of what his seeming night action immunity means for town.