Choice Paralysis

[Supermodel From Paris]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis

I wouldn't normally just post a link to a wikipedia article (I guess that's bad form) but I think this is an extremely important concept for Smash players (especially those struggling with reaching a new level) to understand.

Read it. It's pretty short and you'll find yourself understanding a part of yourself you might not have even known existed and one that is very relevant to the game we play.

Sometimes you have to just do before the moment ends and you're kissing blast zone.

 

[Ishiey]

Yeah, very true. I used to have an issue with this, but then I listened to my main:

"Don't hesitate! When the time comes, just act!" -

(sorry, had to)

But yeah, this is definitely a big thing, especially for those who are just starting to get competitive. When you're under pressure, you don't have the luxury of time when it comes to figuring out the best option to take. The more time you spend waiting, the worse and worse things get, and next thing you know you're getting gimped or your shield is decimated or whatever.

 

[Wave-Guiding Hero]

Instead of trying to analyze every situation as it comes up, I kind of make bullet points for myself like "he tends to approach this way, so I should try this" or even something as simple as "This isn't working, I need to try something else."

Basically, I know myself well enough that I know that I'll always freeze up whenever I try to analyze a situation (especially because I'm not nowhere near a pro level player) so I just stick to my guns and make minor adjustments on the fly rather than figure out and take the best possible option in every situation.

 

[Life]

This is a huge part of why I am bad.

 

[Dyclone]

I have serious issues with this and end up dropping my thoughts altogether.

 

[Destiny Warrior]

I do my thinking while projectile camping(Toon Link). But yeah, most of the time, I don't really "think", I just go on gut instinct. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

Same with me. I try not to think in a match, unless the pace is slow, and I have
to figure out out to get past an opponent's strategy.

 

[John12346]

All of you, go play Super Street Fighter 4 right now and complete ALL of the Challenge Mode trials for your main/your favorite character. ALL OF THEM.

It will beat the everloving **** out of any notion of choice paralysis you may have.

 

[Ussi]

but this is brawl, not SF, we will have SF combos and situations drilled into us, not brawl.... situations

 

[B.A.M.]

but this is brawl, not SF, we will have SF combos and situations drilled into us, not brawl.... situations

Listen to John12346. Theres alot more in common between brawl and SF situations than you think. I do think thats a big problem a ton of players have as well.

 

[Ghostbone]

Listen to John12346. Theres alot more in common between brawl and SF situations than you think. I do think thats a big problem a ton of players have as well.

I've played SF....and the situations are completely different, the mindgames and mix-ups and options are pretty much untranslatable.

I don't claim to play SF at a high level, nor to really deeply understand it, but you can look at something as simple as blocking, in SF you have high or low attacks to beat blocking, and grabbing when you're really close to the opponent (say after a knock-down or when they're cornered), in Brawl you have attacking their shield if they're on platform above you, shield poking (which is done entirely differently to mixing up high/low attacks, in Brawl, you pretty much just throw out a shield poking move, there isn't different moves for differently angled shields, the only example of a move I can think of that can mix-up pokes is Nado, which is why it's amazing even when blocked).

Then you can look at follow-ups, in Brawl you have constant movement, weaving in and out, and you have aerial dodges, different attacks to beat out other attacks, etc.
In SF you have....a reset situation (usually with the opponent knocked down), which is the same every single time you knock them down, in Brawl it's entirely different every time. (I guess ledges are an exception, that's generally a very similar position every time as well...on a static stage at least)

I could go on and on really.

 

[John12346]

When did I say learn how to play Street Fighter?

I'm just telling you guys to do SSF4's Challenge mode Trials for any character. Yes, you have to get a basic understanding of the game controls... but... the overall process of doing the mode helps you get over a lot of the facets of Choice Paralysis, because it really forces you to stay on your toes and be really light on the finger inputs. Knowing how to get over Choice Paralysis in one game will allow you to realize how to get over in it general for other games, so you can bring over your newfound experience once you're done, y'know?

Just try it, and you'll see what I mean.

Edit: Also, don't do any Grappler's Trials, they're way too easy to complete and you'll learn nothing. Talkin' about T. Hawk, Zangief, Hakan, etc...

 

[B.A.M.]

I've played SF....and the situations are completely different, the mindgames and mix-ups and options are pretty much untranslatable.

I don't claim to play SF at a high level, nor to really deeply understand it, but you can look at something as simple as blocking, in SF you have high or low attacks to beat blocking, and grabbing when you're really close to the opponent (say after a knock-down or when they're cornered), in Brawl you have attacking their shield if they're on platform above you, shield poking (which is done entirely differently to mixing up high/low attacks, in Brawl, you pretty much just throw out a shield poking move, there isn't different moves for differently angled shields, the only example of a move I can think of that can mix-up pokes is Nado, which is why it's amazing even when blocked).

Then you can look at follow-ups, in Brawl you have constant movement, weaving in and out, and you have aerial dodges, different attacks to beat out other attacks, etc.
In SF you have....a reset situation (usually with the opponent knocked down), which is the same every single time you knock them down, in Brawl it's entirely different every time. (I guess ledges are an exception, that's generally a very similar position every time as well...on a static stage at least)

I could go on and on really.

u cant just throw out a "shield poking move" if the person is appropriately angling their shield. There are different moves for different angled shields lol. Sonic's dtilt can poke on the bottom if the shield is angled up, where as no angled shield or low angled will get poked by Sonics fair. Same goes for Falco SH bair or nair at times. In fact very few people angle their shield sans MK's nado. Just because the community does so doesnt mean its not there. Theres certain ranges for jump ins, dashes and the like. Knock downs ( though they happen in different ways) are the same situation. u have no tech tech rolls, getup, getup rolls, and attack. the only way it changes is when u are at the ledge, which is the corner for SF. We have cross ups that while dont automatically give you combo if blocked wrongly due to our Shield mechanics, they place an opponent in situations where the majority of the cast is at an instant advantage which will probably land you a hit.

We have safe jumps, our OS ( option selects) work in a similar fashion. The situations are exact. clearly. However, if you've played the game at a high level ( something i did with my friend Choisauce, a well known Makoto player in So Cal and strong player in Marvel) you realize a ton of situations translate over. Just because we have platforms and the like, dont think that all these SF situations are absent. Heck even some characters translate over (Sonic and Blanka for example, and no im not just talking about them being spinning balls).

Look at the core. There are a ton of relations. Thats just how fighting games go. In any case thats not even what was being stated. John12346 was talking about doing trials in order to be quicker with your button presses and decision making. Iono how u cant see that as a core skill. Such things translate over. Theres a reason why a ton of top players are good in multiple fighters. Heck its a lesson in life. If you are able to see the underlining relations in things, and pick up on the patterns, you can stand to gain so much. Something the geniuses of mankind do and have done time and time again.


Seriously. I could tell you tactics and mix ups that are in SF that easily translate over. Once you play fighting games enough, you can see it easily. Tyrant and I talk about it all the time lol.

 

[Ghostbone]

u cant just throw out a "shield poking move" if the person is appropriately angling their shield. There are different moves for different angled shields lol. Sonic's dtilt can poke on the bottom if the shield is angled up, where as no angled shield or low angled will get poked by Sonics fair.

Can you mix-up between doing fair or d-tilt? Or can you only do one depending on the situation. Maybe if you're on the ground behind your opponent, I dunno, seems unlikely.

Same goes for Falco SH bair or nair at times.

Both only really poke when a shield is low, and in that case angling won't save you against nair....

In fact very few people angle their shield sans MK's nado. Just because the community does so doesnt mean its not there.

I angle my shield all the time, at least when I'm shielding on platforms, as if you don't angle down you'll get poked.

Theres certain ranges for jump ins, dashes and the like. Knock downs ( though they happen in different ways) are the same situation. u have no tech tech rolls, getup, getup rolls, and attack. the only way it changes is when u are at the ledge, which is the corner for SF. We have cross ups that while dont automatically give you combo if blocked wrongly due to our Shield mechanics, they place an opponent in situations where the majority of the cast is at an instant advantage which will probably land you a hit.

Jump ins are entirely different, like, not even comparable, the situations and the effects they have don't translate, in smash jumping is very low commitment, and you still have the option to move back and forth, in SF jumping is high commitment, and you don't.

Cross ups in smash are again entirely different, like you said, our shield mechanics are different, characters can still roll away or do an aerial/special OoS to punish you trying to pressure their shield from behind. And the fact they you still don't get any guaranteed follow-ups after doing something is a very important distinction....

We have safe jumps, our OS ( option selects) work in a similar fashion. The situations are exact. clearly. However, if you've played the game at a high level ( something i did with my friend Choisauce, a well known Makoto player in So Cal and strong player in Marvel) you realize a ton of situations translate over. Just because we have platforms and the like, dont think that all these SF situations are absent. Heck even some characters translate over (Sonic and Blanka for example, and no im not just talking about them being spinning balls).

Option selects maybe, but even then, they're still quite different....

Look at the core. There are a ton of relations. Thats just how fighting games go. In any case thats not even what was being stated. John12346 was talking about doing trials in order to be quicker with your button presses and decision making. Iono how u cant see that as a core skill. Such things translate over. Theres a reason why a ton of top players are good in multiple fighters. Heck its a lesson in life. If you are able to see the underlining relations in things, and pick up on the patterns, you can stand to gain so much. Something the geniuses of mankind do and have done time and time again.

Seriously. I could tell you tactics and mix ups that are in SF that easily translate over. Once you play fighting games enough, you can see it easily. Tyrant and I talk about it all the time lol.

Smash is about as different from SF as is possible for a fighting game, a lot of the core stuff is done completely differently, I don't see how any of the situations are easily translatable.
You have to play the game completely differently to smash, sure there are mix-ups in both games, but the situations and the mix-ups are completely different.

 

[B.A.M.]

When ur shield is only a little less that full angling up and down makes a difference on those attacks.The shield does NOT have to be super low for these attacks to poke, unless ur like Diddy Kong lol. just the same as it does on a platform. Just like in other SFs, u have guard break situations that deter someone from blocking for so long.
Fair or AD through and dtilt or simply due to Sonics quick run animation, fair or dtilt straight up.

As far as OoS options vs cross ups. Theres very few against the good cross ups in the game. for example. Fox's bair is -3 on block. lowest jump squat is 5 frames. You have to utilize another option unless you are marth, MK, bowers, and some cases Lucas. maybe DK. Similarly Falco's nair or Dair on the back of shield does the same. It puts an opponent into a position where the opponent can either jab away at their shield or they roll, which is easily punishable thanks to jab canceling. Same goes for an MK doing a nair on the back of your shield. or a marth fairing or uairing ur shield. Heck we even have tick throws.

Yes being allowed movement + AD while air borne makes jumping safer in our game, however in terms of SH it is just as dangerous due to rolls ISSDI even spotdodge. Its still a very large commitment if ppl know how to punish it. There are tons of anti airs vs sh just the same as we have in smash. When ppl are mid to close range SH do function similarly to SF.

Option Selects arent different. They both work due to blockstun and wiffs. SF is more advanced in certain cases due to things like not allowing multiple fireballs on screen etc. but the majority of them follow the same line of reasoning.

The core tactics are as different as you say. There are many situations that are translatable. Ill jot some down right now.


A basic Sonic strat: you need space, and you often maintain use up your real estate to keep safe and apply pressure do to your spins and some okay spacing tools.

Blanka has the exact same strategy in super. What you do you do when you've given up all the stage behind you? you ex rainbow. Sonic? you Spinshot over.

We have empty jump tactics. As I said before we can roll vs aerial attacks which is basically a cross under. Yet jumps are still dangerous. If you sh at me I can punish virtually ever option you do. If u try to SHAD or attack doing a sex kick aerial OoS right before u land is basically a guaranteed punish. DJs and controlling air space is big; just like it is in Marvel and certain SFs (in EX cross ups are insanely good). Power Shielding, and aerial whistling is very similar to parrying from SF3 and can be used with the same functionality.

There are rolling/ dash tricks just like we have in brawl in multiple street fighters. teleports function similarly to rolls as well. As do the option selects against them. One thing we do have is our juggling game which at first seems very different, but if you look closely its not unlike the full fleshed out knockdown game in certain SFs.
Again SF is different than Brawl. What Im saying is a ton of concepts still relate to one another because they are both fighters ultimately. A ton of situations can be translated to brawl scenarios sans meter.

 

[Ghostbone]

Don't have time to reply to all of that atm, but I'll just say that the meter is a very very important distinction.

And Sonic is like one of the only Brawl characters I don't understand, maybe he's a lot more like SF characters than others, I dunno, but I mean you can look at Diddy, who I'd say has barely anything in common with SF characters.

 

[John12346]

Ghost, I'm just saying to do it in SSF4, because unlike Brawl, that game actually has a mode designed to help eliminate choice paralysis.

And... once you learn how to do it in one game, you pretty much know how to bring it over to any other game. It's really intuitive in that regard.

 

[Ghostbone]

Ghost, I'm just saying to do it in SSF4, because unlike Brawl, that game actually has a mode designed to help eliminate choice paralysis.

And... once you learn how to do it in one game, you pretty much know how to bring it over to any other game. It's really intuitive in that regard.

I did some characters challenges a while ago in MvC3 and SSF4.

Idk I don't really suffer from choice paralysis at all.....

 

[B.A.M.]

I did some characters challenges a while ago in MvC3 and SSF4.

Idk I don't really suffer from choice paralysis at all.....

and do you think that might have helped?

 

[Ghostbone]

and do you think that might have helped?

I'm not too sure, I guess it was around the same time I started improving quite a bit at smash, so it probably did help at least a little bit.

 

[Tommy_G]

Choice paralysis in terms of smash is more often due to inexperience, not due to superior intelligence.

Just learn the game, and not everything else while trying to force comparisons.

 

[Sephy95]

I've always known not to over think things but I always do it anyway because of my damn habits...

 

[MacNCheese.]

Well I don't have much of a problem with this since I play chess a lot. It makes it easier to find the best option in the option tree. During a match I often find myself choosing the best options. But even more I'm just not thinking. But it's a great improvement since when I didn't play chess. So, my advice for overcoming this is play a game that requires you to make the best / safest move. Soon you will be able to face the options you get better and more efficiently. I'm still working on this though.

 

[hichez50]

Well Tommy G and MacNCheese posts says everything. The more you play brawl the more you learn what options you should use and which options you shouldn't use. For beginners it is just crucial that they use a option to find out what works.

Sorta off topic. This concept can also be applied to leadership. It is often better for a leader to make a "wrong" decision than make no decision at all.

 

[Lord Chair]

ITT: People thinking they think too much while their problem lies in not consciously thinking at all.

Talk about taking your problems to the different end of a spectrum.