Charizard Matchup Discussion Thread

[Remzi]

1. Grab the ledge
2. Force a getup
3. Ledgedrop Glide attack
4.????
5. Profit

Love it, thank you. Do we have enough time to do anything that would send them back off stage?

 

[Heroofhatz]

Love it, thank you. Do we have enough time to do anything that would send them back off stage?

Only if you read it, you can probably Bair, or ledge drop reverse Side B would work as well. But if you hit them before they get a chance to touch the ground, they don't regain any jumps, so you can just do it again if they get knocked off the other side.

 

[JOE!]

Really though, Heat Wave outranges DDD'S FTILT

WHY DONT WE USE THIS MORE?

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Startup lag

 

[JOE!]

Once I can open zard up in BBox again I'll look it up

It appears at frame 21, and creates 4 distinct hits. Lingering until frame 34. IASA at frame 59 (out of 66 total), but is edge cancelable at frame 46 and over, allowing a ledge hop Side B to be significantly fast.

I theory, all 4 (8, there is 2 per "section") hits can total 58 damage in one go against like a crouching bowser or something. And the total reach exceeds Charizard's own size. Given the sheer size of heatwave, the start up could easily be overlooked as the spacing you can afford with it can cover the lag in many cases.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Hmm, well if it's viable for spacing like that then it could be used in certain MUs, but not those where Charizard is significantly outsped. I've also found occasional use for it as my gimmick move- a move I use so rarely I convince my opponent I don't ever use it. That allows for great setups imo. I've been able to do that with Pika's usmash and dsmash (usually get kills with nair or thunder) and they never see it coming.

 

[Heroofhatz]

Love it, thank you. Do we have enough time to do anything that would send them back off stage?

Only if you read it, you can probably Bair, or ledge drop reverse Side B would work as well. But if you hit them before they get a chance to touch the ground, they don't regain any jumps, so you can just do it again if they get knocked off the other side.

Once I can open zard up in BBox again I'll look it up

It appears at frame 21, and creates 4 distinct hits. Lingering until frame 34. IASA at frame 59 (out of 66 total), but is edge cancelable at frame 46 and over, allowing a ledge hop Side B to be significantly fast.

I theory, all 4 (8, there is 2 per "section") hits can total 58 damage in one go against like a crouching bowser or something. And the total reach exceeds Charizard's own size. Given the sheer size of heatwave, the start up could easily be overlooked as the spacing you can afford with it can cover the lag in many cases.

The only main problem I have with it is that the outer hotboxes don't have any knock back, which can really suck if you don't knock anyone away.

 

[JOE!]

Only the outer-most hitbox has no KB, and deals 1%. The inner hitbox of the last, big hit deals 9% and mediocre KB.

 

[LavaLatte]

Side-B can deal a maximum of 25 damage to a single target, from what I've seen. It's the best option on a sleeping jigglypuff, considering the horizontal KB. Fully charged F-Smash only deals 21 damage.

 

[*Zen]

Tipped fully charged F-Smash deals 30% and a lot more KB than side B. Charizard's down air is in my opinion his most reliable punish move in most situations.

 

[Heroofhatz]

Tipped fully charged F-Smash deals 30% and a lot more KB than side B. Charizard's down air is in my opinion his most reliable punish move in most situations.

Fun fact, Zard's uncharged Fsmash sweetspotted has about the same KB as DK's fully charged Giant Punch. so at any reasonable percent, fully charged Fsmash will be your best option.

 

[JOE!]

Tested the Side B against a crouching giga bowser. It can deal 34%

 

[LavaLatte]

lol well alright, I was disproven on all counts. I stand corrected. :D

@ *Zen , can I ask why you do a B-reversed glide almost every time you need to grab a ledge? Is it faster than just glide stalling (just facing the ledge)? Also, what are the inputs if I wanted to practice this? :3

 

[steelguttey]

Hey guys! The Olimar Matchup thread is doing Charizard this week. Come on over and talk about it!

 

[metroid1117]

Hey guys! The Olimar Matchup thread is doing Charizard this week. Come on over and talk about it!

I'm going to be honest and say that I have zero match-up experience against Olimar lol, not sure about other people though.

 

[Mera Mera]

Hey guys! The Olimar Matchup thread is doing Charizard this week. Come on over and talk about it!

Yeah... the problem is there are few Olimar players (I can only think of two people who secondary him), at least in my area. And fewer good Olimar players (maybe 0 in our area?), and 0 good Olimar players that know the Zard match up (probably).

So... it's hard to do. And I feel like I don't even know Olimar well enough to theory craft. I could maybe tell you what to look out for and how to abuse our character's weaknesses, but that's all :/

There is probably similar problems for everyone else... who are the good Olimar players? Have they played any decent Zards? That would be a start.

 

[steelguttey]

Alright guys, here's what we got on Olimar vs Charizard. (a note this is advice for olimar players, use this to your advantage)

Spoiler: Charizard

Good Stages: PS2, Smashville, Battlefield

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 79%

Matchup Ratio: 5-5

Tips:

So I ended up not being able to go to Exposure today due to irl stuff.

My step brother plays Charizard a little though and I know a little bit of info about the matchup, I just wanted to sit down with Metroid and discuss it with someone who would beat my *** with the character.

This matchup is better for both characters than either side will probably give credit for due to not actually experiencing it for themselves. All in all I do think it's a little more in Olimar's favor, but Charizard has some fairly good tools to use vs Olimar as well. A few notes about the winged lizard though:

He's fast on the ground, and his dash dance is really good for a large character.

His N-Air is amazing, especially when he's facing away from you. This move can start combos, end combos, get Star KOs, and can be used to keep other characters out. I'm sure most of you have seen the hitbox on the thing. It does come with some punishable endlag though. Respect this move, and punish it accordingly.

Charizard CAN combo Olimar back. Mostly vertically. His Jab sets up for so much, and his range lets him catch Olimar in mid air. It's not free though, the Charizard player has to follow your DI, but if he does, prepare to be U-Air > U-Air > Up-B'd.

Charizard's got more than Star KO power too. This D-Tilt, F-Tilt, B-Air and F-Smash are all good at taking Olimar off the stage, and this is one of a few matchups where you do not want to be offstage with the disadvantage. Charizard can keep you down if he performs correctly. His Flamethrowing also keeps Olimar from recovering low if it's fresh because it can stuff Olimar's tether.

Getting grabbed sucks, and to make matters worse Charizard has a good grab range. Coupled with his speed, he can punish Olimar's whiffs fairly well, and his D-Throw is good at techchasing anyone. To make matters worse though, Olimar has one of the worst techrolls in the game, and if Charizard catches you techrolling behind him while you have high damage he gets a free F-Smash which means you lose a stock because that move his super powerful. U-Throw is also a killer so don't get caught at high damage.

Charizard is a survivor. He's heavy and he can glide. You can stuff his Glide Attack if he uses it, but in my experience it's not easy to do. You have to hit with literally the bottom half of the Pikmin. If you can stuff his glide, and keep him off for his two jumps so he's out of range with his Up-B, then you should be okay. The hard part is stuffing the glide really.

Now that that's out of the way, the way to counter Charizard is don't miss anything, and pester him with Pikmin Throw. If you put a Pikmin on Charizard's nose he actually has very few ways of getting it off. It's also not very hard to do this. This is damage for you. After you get your first real hit with anything, you want to immediately put Charizard above you somehow. Throws, U-Smash, U-Tilt, whatever. Like most characters, Charizard can't challenge Olimar's U-Air.

You're going to need to put on as much damage as you can because as I said before, Charizard can survive against Olimar. That's basically it.

Space your attacks.
Pester him.
Don't miss.

Stages... I like medium sized ones after having played the matchup a little more than the last time I talked about this matchup. Small stages aren't bad for Charizard because he takes up so much space, much like Bowser. Large stages let him live longer. They make Olimar live longer too usually, but Charizard is actually strong enough for him to kill on larger stages with far off blastzones. Charizard can also do his Fly > U-Air > U-Air > Up-B chase combo on Dreamland and still kill that way.

I actually prefer stages like PS2, Smashville, Battlefield. I don't even mind Final Destination in this match too much because it takes away the platforms Charizard could use to mix up his glide recovery with. Also Lylat Cruise again because those ledges are great for screwing over Charizard's recovery as a whole.

 

[Tremendo Dude]

So it turns out my Lucas experience was skewed by player skill, as I got octo-stocked against one the other day on Netplay. Lag aside, Lucas's pressure is absolutely ridiculous, and in particular it felt like his Dair at low percents on stage, due to Charizard's size, can chain into itself for a free 0-80%. I'm putting it down on lack of match-up experience (in contrast to my opponent, who goes even with a Charizard-maining friend of his). Lucas's pressure game seems to be potent enough to rival or beat Falco's and Mario's against Charizard, though.

 

[Heroofhatz]

So it turns out my Lucas experience was skewed by player skill, as I got octo-stocked against one the other day on Netplay. Lag aside, Lucas's pressure is absolutely ridiculous, and in particular it felt like his Dair at low percents on stage, due to Charizard's size, can chain into itself for a free 0-80%. I'm putting it down on lack of match-up experience (in contrast to my opponent, who goes even with a Charizard-maining friend of his). Lucas's pressure game seems to be potent enough to rival or beat Falco's and Mario's against Charizard, though.

Lucas can be hard, but never forget you have an invincible Up B OOS to deal with his shield pressure. The Dair stuff is hard because you need to make sure you tech the last hit not the first one. You can still jab him out of any of his approaches though, you can even jab the snowflakes as well. I'm making it sound easier than it is, especially in lag, but that's some of the pointers I can give. Be sure to check out the MU thread for more advice as well.

 

[Tremendo Dude]

Lucas can be hard, but never forget you have an invincible Up B OOS to deal with his shield pressure. The Dair stuff is hard because you need to make sure you tech the last hit not the first one. You can still jab him out of any of his approaches though, you can even jab the snowflakes as well. I'm making it sound easier than it is, especially in lag, but that's some of the pointers I can give. Be sure to check out the MU thread for more advice as well.

I thought this was the MU thread. :U It also doesn't help when the paragraph listed under Lucas was written by yours truly, though the Jab trick is something I love and try to use well.

I'll try UpB out of shield next time around, though when he lands the dair raw, it's a pain to deal with. I'll make sure to avoid missing techs next time around, of course, but before the game even allows me to tech when at low percent (charizard instead stands still in stun without slamming into the ground before this), I'm already at 40% or higher. I'm probably gonna look for Lucas mains in particular to practice against next time I play.

 

[Oracle]

upsmash oos is safer than up b, but isn't invincible. they're both 4 frames, so its situational. generally just try to not shield in the first place. Also, sdi lucas' dair up and sometimes it'll just kick you back to the ground so he can't follow up

 

[metroid1117]

upsmash oos is safer than up b, but isn't invincible. they're both 4 frames, so its situational. generally just try to not shield in the first place. Also, sdi lucas' dair up and sometimes it'll just kick you back to the ground so he can't follow up

According to JOE!'s thread, USmash hits on frame 7 and not 4; maybe you were looking at "start frames" instead of "active frames"?

 

[Oracle]

That thread is confusing. I thought it was frame 5 for so long. Well its still a good oos option, same startup as grab but much bigger hitbox

 

[TheGravyTrain]

What would you guys say Zard generally struggles with? From this thread, he outspaces, but struggles with speed/pressure.

I am trying to get a a very broad/generic idea of who struggles with what (and who), for curiosity and for a deeper understanding of why bad matchups are bad. All you hear are x moves beats y character best option here. Without too much practical experience, that doesn't help much. I am looking into getting into game design anyways, so it will fuel that interest as well. Thanks in advance for all your help!

 

[JOE!]

Projectiles are what really suck usually

 

[Tremendo Dude]

Gonna agree with Joe. Charizard makes for a big target, so projectiles are a real pain to deal with (especially projectiles that won't trade, like Ness's PK Fire or Falco's lasers). Many of Charizard's combo-starter moves come out quickly but have a significant amount of ending lag as well, leaving him very vulnerable to pressure on whiffs. Also, being a big target, he is very easy to grab and has difficulty crossing up shields. His disjointed hitboxes tend to carry hurtboxes with them (particularly his uptilt), so by poking forward, Charizard tends to make himself vulnerable as well.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Thanks guys! That helped a lot.

 

[TheTTimeLives]

Just for a lot of characters;

Spoiler

Zelda: Can be tough to get around side b spam and zard’s large size allows Zelda to hit her sweet spot aerials pretty freely. But you far worse off to play super defensively against her because any time you give her is time to set up side b and you can’t afford to do that against her. RAR Nair, your bread and butter, will eat the side b’s, so just be smart and aggressive while understanding that your not going to be able to use the move as defensively as in some matchups. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING in this matchup is the offstage. ALWAYS, pursue Zelda off stage because the beginning of her up b is very punishable. Plus, even if you miss a pursuit nair off stage, you can just glide attack back to try and punish any stupid stuff (when the time is right) from recovering anywhere on stage but the ledge. All in all, I’d say it’s even due to clear on-stage/off-stage advantages in each matchup and even ability in platform situations.


Ganondorf: Bad matchup. His down b eats up RAR Nair and bair, which forces you to play risky. This puts you in the range of his aerials (which are better than yours once RAR Nair can’t be used as much) and it also pits you in his side b shenanigans range (so basically, you have to play his game at his ranges.) He also combos/kills Zards pretty early. He also destroys Zard on heavily platformed stages like WarioWare. So it’s a winnable matchup but bad for Zard. Probably like 6-4 Ganon if it’s not on a heavy platform stage.


R.O.B: This one is good for Zard. Zard is fast enough to avoid, wavedash grab gyro shenanigans. He juggles R.O.B pretty easy and is stronger than him off-stage. His Nair, D-Air, Fair are just better versions of what R.O.B has on a character that takes greater advantage of being in the air (though R.O.B's u-air is very good, just make sure you DI it appropriately so you don't get killed early for no reason.)The only con is that R.O.B neutral b is a hard counter to recovering straight back to the ledge from off stage, but that’s a problem Zard has in a lot of matchups. Zard’s offense is just overall way stronger than R.O.B’s and if you get around grounded gyro/neutral b nonsense and don't challenge his f-tilt (which is really good) stupidly than the match shouldn’t be that difficult. I’d say 6-4 Zard but definantly winnable for R.O.B, just he’s playing your game.


Samus: Bodied. Very good for Zard. Up-throw kills Samus at very low percents and none of her aerials or ground buttons are good against bread and butter RAR Nair. Because of the potential reward, you can feel free to go for more tech chases off a down throw (my philosophy regardless of matchup on this is to do this when your closer to one side, rather than in the middle. That way, you make one of the roll options very easy to punish and essentially cut out an option. In these situations, you can all place a Nair that can punish both sides of a roll. Think about re-grabbing into up throw for easy kills though.) Zard chases samus for free and can punish her typical air-dodge into tether recovery with nair, something not many other characters can do. His bair kills her very early as well. The only thing she has is charged shot and that’s a given to avoid, and her missile cancel stuff isn’t enough to put her over in this matchup. This one is 7-3 Zard, it’s very hard for Samus.


Marth: Record straightening time. Good matchup for Zard, I really like it’s 7-3 but I get this feeling that once people start figuring Zard out it’ll go to 6-4. EVERY aerial, smash and tilt that Marth has is outranged by Zard, has kill potential (which Marth has trouble with outside of carry combos) and RAR Nair murders Marth and has him sliding all over the place. Sure, Marth can be a slippery character to pin down, but he’s playing your game in this match-up so you don’t have to worry about being overly offensive. Your f-smash is very good in this matchup and you can throw it out more safely for big rewards when the time is right. Marth still combos you easy enough, but the neutral is in Zards favor (though winnable by Marth.) Marth gets molested off stage though and there’s not a lot he can do against your aerials, notably u-air and RAR nair when your in the upper corner quadrants of the stage. I wish I had a video but I’m just a good player and I took a game off Banana Ken in pools after playing only one other Marth (who sucked. That player I mean not Ken) and the rest of the matches were close at CEO this year. Anyone who tells you this matchup is bad A: Sucks at Zard and plays him wrongly (you probably don't RAR Nair enough or know how to play defensively) or B: Is afraid of Melee top-tiers, which is crazy since Marth is mid in this game for sure.


Jigglypuff: Free 7-3 for Zard. Yea he’s big and can get rested. But there will practically never be a situation where Zard can't get a revenge kill on that downtime. Jiggs is absolutely free to RAR Nair when played defensively and Zard kills her early (I mean everyone kills jiggs early but it’s just so easy for Zard to hit her.) Unwinnable by jiggs against a zard that just RAR Nair’s defensively on any stage.


Yoshi: I think it’s even or a little in Zard’s favor. I’ve played TomboCombo’s Yoshi a couple times and I didn’t think anything he did was terrifying. Just for note, the egg roll is punishable. When Yoshi pops out of the egg, it is an attack and can be grabbed right afterwards (most people never punish it because they always get hit by the pop out and think it can’t be grabbed). So it’s a mix-up of where he’s going to pop out (in-front or behind) rather than him getting in for free. RAR Nair beats out egg roll so between that and the ability to punish the roll the neutral is even or in Zard’s favor. Yoshi can approach zard very quickly upwards and in some cases sucks up a RAR Nair with super armor frames and punishes (Yoshi’s u-air is strong so this can lead to kills fairly easy at reasonable percents against Zard) but it’s really more of an aspect of the match-up rather than something that defines it. Zard certainly has the advantage off-stage though, though well placed eggs can gimp Zard’s glide fairly easily if your not thinking about it. I’d say it’s 5-5.


Snake: It just seems really bad for Zard, like 7-3 or a very stressful 6-4 at best in Snake's favor. You would think that due to the fact that Zard is always RAR Nairing, he would be safe from tranquilizer but that just isn’t the case and Zard can get killed at very low percents off grabs into C-4 (which is ridiculously easy for Snake to get on Zard.) There’s a lot of the Ganon syndrome in this matchup (Snake’s good at dealing with RAR Nair and forces Zard to try and approach with strategies the character is built against.) I’d say 7-3 Snake. Very hard for Zard against just flow-charty Snake play.


Falco: Hard to call, I’d say it’s even just based on how the players play with maybe a slight favor for Zard in platform stages. Zard carrys Falco off-stage very easily even at low percents. Up-b is unusable for Falco recovery wise in this matchup (eaten alive by RAR Nair, especially when you time it to go through the lip of the stage) though you have to respect Falco's side b or you''ll get spiked. However, smart Falco players can harass and set up lasers on you very easily due to your size. Falco can also gimp Zard hard in the upper quadrants of the screen and can defend against chasing easily as well (with laser), which is something Zard doesn’t experience in the majority of his matchups. So momentum shifts really strongly over anything in this matchup. So yea, for practical purposes 5-5.


Fox: Again BODIED. 6-4 Zard matchup and I wanna say even it’s worse for Fox (though people will chew me up.) Fox has to play against your RAR Nair and if you play defensively he isn’t fast enough to chase and punish you if you dash away. His laser doesn’t mean much and he gets carried off stage just as badly as Falco does. You don’t have to respect his side b because it doesn’t spike and his up-b is unusable. Jab is a good option against a lot of things Fox does as well and can combo. Sure, nair plaining exists and yes shield pressure and shine pressure is still hard to deal with, but you should be in that situation in too few a scenarios for it to lose you games, unless your playing wrong. You can literally volleyball the majority of Fox’s recovery options (from literally any position off stage) with RAR Nair, ESPECIALLY the risk-less timed through the lip version (which is easy to time out due to how long it takes for Fox’s up-b to go off.) I’m so sick off people crying about spacies because they A: Won’t double side-step and dash out against players that just hit buttons up close all day and B: Try to play this character from directly next to a spacey with d-air, bair, fair, raw grabs and the occasional tilt. There character is built to play that way NOT YOURS. Seriously guys don’t be afraid to dash out. Zard is hella fast and travels up and down just a little slower than falco and can cover CRAZY amounts of screen horizontally with Nair very quickly. Make Fox realize he doesn't have a significant speed advantage over you when retreat dash and RAR Nair range is in play. 6-4 matchup for Zard due to high reward from RAR Nair and especially easy off-stage/gimp game.


Meta Knight: By far Zard’s worse matchup. 7-3 or worse for Zard. Meta Knight can punish any RAR Nair that doesn’t hit with anything after a dash. The fact that he doesn’t clank means he can just throw out dash attacks against it (randomly) and get in on Zard for free. Unlike Fox, Meta Knight is fast enough to where retreat dashing and RAR Nairing away will get Zard punished. Run grab, run up-air, run any tilt, aerial or u-smash will work for MK against this bread and butter tactic. This makes Zard have try and play like a big orange Jigglypuff because there’s no way (as with most characters) that you can compete with MK at his close near ground game. Zard also suffers because MK can just bail from most of his staircase combos (and even carry Zard back to the ground in an unfavorable situation) with d-air angled appropriately. MK’s can also combo Zard upwards very easily in the air, even if you mix your DI very hard (because your size and floatiness makes it so easy for him to do this to you.) Unwinnable for Zard.

Sorry for the length, wish I knew how to make this scrollable or something.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Woah. Super long yet awesome post. XD

Just use ["spoiler]your text here [/spoiler"] without any " in it. Thanks for all the MU info!

 

[TheTTimeLives]

Thanks Sapphire. Just fixed the last post to not make it so massive. Also, my two cents on some match ups people seem to talk about a lot...

Spoiler

Link: solid 6-4 for Link with some leeway for Zard on platform stages. Though it is hard there are some key pointers. First, do not overestimate his boomerang. Yes it recovers very quickly on hit and he's pretty safe when hey catches it. you are not in a great position trying to gain ground towards him with RAR Nair when that move plus bombs are in play. However, there are quite a few things you can do to make it playable against.

1. It's just good, not great when bombs are not in play. You can wavedash towards the bombs when there thrown to pick them up and throw them back. A lot of times, this happens when you block a boomerang and than wavedash out of shield to continue approaching, but Link wants to hit you with a bomb for a free combo. Just give him that **** back and suddenly he'll realize that he can't auto-pilot zone anymore and that will affect how comfortable and how safe he'll be when throwing boomerangs.

2. Just jump over it and steal the bomb or make him do something risky (Link doesn't have many great safe moves). This seems like a basic strategy but it mostly has to do with the fact that people overrate the significance of boomerangs hit-box on the way back. Holding shield or trying to play to cautiously at the range where your waiting for the boomerang to come back is really dumb and will get you punished 9/10 times through his long grab, him resetting the situation on you or just straight punishing you with some really strong move.

3. Once you have him back peddling, steal his bombs that he leaves on the ground. Seriously, I can't stress to you enough how important it is to keep the bombs out of play. Link doesn't have to deal with anything like getting bombs thrown at him outside of a mirror match and especially not from a character with so much maneuverability. Make him feel your pain! Bomb strategies either take time to pull out or are thought up ahead of time. Once he can't use them, he won't know what to do with his boomerang.

Also if you've successfully gotten Link backpedaling on his zoning game and forced him to start thinking instead of being the brain dead character that he is, you get a lot of options back and the opportunity to mix-up your opponent. Link needs his projectiles to avoid taking risks, so he is most likely going to try and grab you (which is actually not a bad strategy on his part since it punishes a lot of your close comfortable ranges quickly and beats trying to dash away.) However, at this point you are a better character than him (because your forcing him to take risks outside his comfort zone and your weakening his projectile game.) Most of his options in these exchanges have long recovery and Link's tend to get very hail mary with there attacks because it works on bad players and when they have advantage from their projectiles. His off-stage game is pretty pitiful too, but I'm not quite sure what to do to try and gimp it easily, since the whole move seems to be a hitbox for it's duration (at the point where he's finally off-stage, he's most likely to far away to recover anyway. Plus his tether option gets stuffed by RAR Nair and is really unreliable. It kind of needs to be fixed.)


Mario: I've already posted on this, and my view kind of shifts between light 6-4 to Mario and a straight 5-5. Zard is distinguishable for being one of the only characters to be able to beat out Mario's bread and butter of fireball zoning into safe whatever. Unlike in the Link match-up, battling zoning with your RAR Nair properties is actually the right thing to do. Your RAR Nair not only scoops up Mario's fireball but can also scoop up it up AND punish Mario in one move WHILE BEING COMPLETELY SAFE. This creates one of the more unique match ups in the whole game thus far. You must rage the RAR Nair versus fireball war against Mario. The area you can perform the stuff/punish at the same time is at short hop height and doesn't work when advancing, but rather from a neutral short hop (hard to explain distance through text but just experiment.) After getting punished in the "scrubby" Mario range, most Mario's will likely start going to the full hop air for more fireballs (better players will just mix it up more consistently.) This you can punish by just straight up Nair, RAR Nair or going over him quickly. Down b is great when Mario starts getting desperate up high with fireballs. Outside of his projectile, Mario is super free to RAR Nair as he has trouble using his maneuverability against such a massive safe and fast hit box, especially on a faster character. The biggest threat is that he when you mess-up an exchange he can get safe pressure via jab/down smash and grabs into fair. And those are both pretty good against Zard. It can be kind of tricky to edge guard Mario sometimes because of how dynamic his recovery is but my philosophy is to just be safe. If he's doing wall jump or sweet spot stuff, try to use RAR Nair as safely as possible, or even through the lip if you time it out right. I don't want to give the impression that my RAR Nair info makes it super easy, as I do feel fireball goes even with this strategy when adjustments are in play. But still it's not as bad as people believe.

So, yea just some specifics on Link and Mario. How do I get my stuff on the front page?

 

[WispBae]

If I may offer my two cents for the G&W. I'm by no means an expert, but I did main G&W in Brawl, and many of his strengths and weaknesses are translated well into P:M.

Spoiler

Your main concerns for G&W should be that his strongest kill options happen to be in the air and he also has the dreaded bacon. It's been established already that Zard hates projectiles, and should be eapecially fearful of how bacon lingers in the air. One tiny hit from it will gimp your glide recovery.

G&W's easiest kills happen in the air. I'd go as far to say G&W Nair and Zard's nair are tied for best Nair in the game, Zard's for zoning and approaching, and G&W for covering options and kills. It doesn't help that Zard is such a big target, making it pretty easy for G&W to get easy sweetspot Fairs and approaching Bairs as well. Unless you've started a combo already, don't try to challenge his ariel game, lest you fall victim to his 1-frame combo starters and great ariel options.

On the ground though, G&W is very susceptible to attacks, since he would be very reliant on bacon on the ground for defense. Game plan for Zard: Stay on top of G&W on the ground, don't give him any space to breath.

Your grab reaches farther than G&W, and since his techs are pretty slow (in comparision to others) you could easily chain together multiple down throws. Zard's tilt also reaches farther than G&W's, but I believe they clank. Still, properly used tilts will easily push G&W to the side blast zones, being so light. On the ground, I'd just be wary of a G&W down-tilt, though a Zard down-tilt, again, reaches farther. Comboing from the ground to a sweetspotted Fair or Side-B will kill G&W at relatively low percents, though I'd advise against it, since when G&W punishes, he punishes HARD.

Hope this helps a bit. I'd ask @ Dakpo personally for this MU, being the G&W wiz he is!

 

[Dakpo]

Me and Oracle have played many times. I think the match up is slightly in Charizards favor. Charizards nair isnt even a real move and crushes just about everything GnW can do. He just dies horribly to getting 0-deathed quite often by GnW. Just nair and you win. Should be eazy. #GnW4badcharacter