Sapphire Dragon
Smash Master
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This will be where all detailed discussions of Charizard's matchups are kept. This post will be updated with any new matchups discussed as well as old matchups from Smashmods. Any Smashmods reviews are indicated by a bolded username followed directly by their analysis (it will not be in SWF format quote boxes) and is usually 2.1 or earlier info only.
As discussions continue, a color will be applied to each character giving a sense of how hard they are for Zard:
Red for difficult;
Yellow for slightly either way;
Green for easy.
Enjoy!
Fox:
King DeDeDe:
ph00tbag:
DDD seems to give Charizard a lot of trouble. Ftilt prevents the lizard from really doing anything on the ground. Although Darksyde made the observation that SH Heat Wave was really hard for DDD to work around, which I would agree with. Overall, though, Charizard usually has to go to the air first, which really puts DDD at the advantage.
Link:
Mario:
From my experience, all I can say is that Mario seems to be really difficult for Charizard. The pills, *ahem* I mean Fireballs keep Charizard bottled down. Mario also has quicker moves than Charizard that also have quite a bit of strength.
Plus Charizard is a Fire breathing lizard-dragon thing, which is kind of close to Bowser. And as we all know, Mario beats Bowser all the time in multiple games.
Ness:
Zero Suit Samus:
Bowser:
Bowser has some nasty stuff while edgeguarding us (and everyone). His Bowser Bomb can cover a lot of vertical space above him really quickly, so it catches glides and DJs that try to go over him. The same Bomb also destroys vertical recoveries (I watched my friend's, Soup's, Mario get totally messed up time and time again because of this) for free, and if he's too early, which he will be more than being too late, he gets a ledgehog, so Zard has to watch out if he's coming back with upB. I think 2.5 Zard's ability to act after gliding is going to be a godsend for this specific MU because of these things.
Captain Falcon:
I kind of see Zard's MU vs Falcon to be somewhat analogous to ROB's MU vs Falcon. Both have a hard time at neutral due to Falcon's great speed, DD, and shield mix-ups, and both get combo'd super hard by the captain. ROB's MU, itself, is actually analogous to Melee Samus's MU vs Falcon, so I'm gonna make a bit of a stretch here and quote some advice that HugS made on the Samus boards a while ago: "Falcon rules the air while you rule the ground."
Like ROB, if Zard can get a shieldgrab off on C.Falcon, then it should convert into either a lot of damage or a death, even at 0%. Falcon is one of the easier chars in the game to tech-chase due to his abnormally long get-up animation, something that transferred over from Melee. Therefore, dthrow TC's should be a BnB thing on Falcon. Being a fast-faller, Falcon is also naturally combo'd by Zard a lot easier than the rest of the cast is. He kinda just falls into all the hits, making them super easy to link. I believe I may have played one game of Zard vs Gallo's Falcon, but I don't think it was recorded.
In general, I think Zard prefers small stages against Falcon, to cut down on Falcon's mobility advantage while making Zard's TC's and combos easier and opening Falcon up to gimps a lot faster.
metroid1117
As stated before, Falcon's greatest strength lies in his neutral game; his dash dance is excellent, which lets him weave in-and-out while fishing for grabs and aerials. Similarly for Sonic, don't try to wait out his approach and shut him out with DTilts and jabs; go very deep and interrupt his dash-dancing with dash-canceled jab or DTilt. Try to stay on the ground as much as possible in the neutral state, spacing him out with NAir does not work very well. You won't be able to do anything if he gets you with a grab, but if you're at low %s, you may be able to crouch-cancel his NAir and jab like how Kage often does that against Falcons in Melee (granted, Charizard's jab comes out on frame 5 whereas Ganon's Melee jab comes out on frame 3).
You might be able to DThrow techchase Falcon all day, but I prefer to use DSmash to techchase. Once you get Falcon on the ground with jab, it's just a matter of spamming DSmash. If you're next to him as he is forced to tumble onto the ground, stationary DSmash covers missed tech, tech-in-place, and techroll behind, whereas running DSmash covers techroll away (to which you can react instead of having to read). From my experience, DSmash techchases are better than DThrow techchases because you have more time to get in position before they tech, it does more damage, it sets up for combos incredibly well, and you can follow up with waveland -> DSmash or just USmash if they try teching onto a platform. However, given the nature of Falcon's recovery, you might want to use DThrow if they tech towards the edge of the stage so that you can try beating out their attempted meteor cancel with run-off DAir. If you get up+B'd against the stage while edgeguarding him, you can Rockcrock DAir him.
Speaking of edgeguarding, tipped DTilt is the best way to kill Falcon. If you sourspot it and he doesn't have a jump, you can try going for a side+B, which is made easier to connect because he'll be DI'ing in from trying to survive the tipped DTilt. The same is true if he's coming from above; you can go for a jab -> jump -> side+B as long as he doesn't have a jump. If he does have a jump, he'll probably be able to jump out before side+B hits. Otherwise, you can also just grab the edge to force him to land on the stage with up+B (watch out for the possible side+B spike), waveland, then edgehop DAir -> side+B or DSmash -> side+B to send him back out.
The rest of the match-up is pretty clear (both characters can combo and edgeguard the other extremely hard); I think this match-up is in Falcon's favor because it's so much easier for him to finish his combos with hard-hitting attacks (namely, the knee), but it's still winnable.
Bubbaking:
Also watch out for the possible stage-spike from upB if you hang on the ledge too long. Btw, speaking of edgeguarding, Zard's dsmash is practically identical to his dair. Both moves pop grounded opponents up into the air and meteor aerial opponents. This is especially relevant to Falcon's recovery because of the likelihood that Falcon's head will pop up a little higher than the ledge sweetspot. In this case, Zard's well-timed dsmash will actually meteor Falcon as if he had been daired.
Donkey Kong:
Falco:
Bubbaking:
In all honesty, even though Falco's approach options and shield pressure are OP, I'd rather that they approach and give me the possibility of landing shieldgrabs, upB's OoS, and other things to punish messed-up spacing (either by mistake or caused by me). Falco is also one of the easiest chars in the game for Zard to combo and gimp, and surprisingly, he can do that job better than a very good portion of the P:M cast. However, if Falco decides to go maximum camp mode, I think Zard is finished.
I'm talking about a very skilled Falco who realizes that he can win by being as defensive as possible. In other words, this Falco will camp Zard out as hard as he can and he'll only go aggro when Zard gets close enough to be somewhat of a threat. I've never met a Falco who did that. All the spacees I know personally go aggro eventually, and I believe that this has allowed me to win matches with Zard. However, I also believe that if a very good Falco ever decides to just go all-out campy while still having a very good punish and CQC game, then I'm finished. This is why I labelled the Falco:Zard MU as (--). It has the very practical potential to be one of Zard's absolute worst MUs, even harder than Lucario.
metroid1117
I haven't played any good Falcos with Charizard so I won't say much on the match-up, but learning how to powershield will make this a lot easier. Powershielding consistently is hard, but even if you get one powershield out of a dash, you can wavedash out-of-shield and punish Falco pretty hard with basically any character. This set is old, but that's basically my strategy in Melee whenever I play against a Falco with Marth. I'm not saying basing your strategy against powershielding is a good thing, but powershielding is a vital skill to learn against spam-heavy characters like Falco.
Ike:
Jigglypuff:
I would say its a bit in jiggs' favor but, it is definitely winnable. Since charizard's bair has an awesome range he can compete with the jiggly's spacing in the air I think.
And damn is nair awesome in this match up.
Kink-Link5:
Charizard is a lot like a heavier Jigglypuff with better range on his BnB aerial, but gets set up hard into rest combos. It's definitely winnable by just playing homo though.
Bubbaking:
If Jiggs wasn't so light, I'd absolutely hate this MU, since Zard is only capable of landing one- and two-hit strings on her most of the time. Jiggs beats him through aerial mobility that allows her to weave in and out of his stuff but Zard can probably wall her out with far-reaching aerials to make things closer to even.
Lucas:
Marth:
Charizard is really good when his opponent is above him; he gets better advantages than a lot of other chars get. Likewise, Marth is really bad when his opponent is below him. If you can get Marth into the air, you can harass/damage/kill him while he struggles to touch the ground. In this respect, Zard's usmash is actually very effective. Along these lines, Zard actually wants to remain on the main stage while he keeps Marth on the plats. Also, if you can get Marth offstage, it's a fairly easy gimp.
Now, the problem here is exactly what you're observing. On flat levels (and the main level of plat stages), Marth completely out-prioritizes Zard in the approaching game. I wouldn't suggest using falling nairs too often because Marth becomes one of the strongest chars in the game when his opponent is above him. Zard isn't weakened to 'Marth in the air' levels when he's above his opponent, thanks to dair, nair, and multiple aerial jumps, but NO ONE wants to be above Marth. I would say to utilize your great DD and your CC (boosted by your weight) to bait Marth into doing things and then punish. You can also try to force an action from him by shoving a shield in his face and then shield-grabbing his fair.
Well Marth is an extremely good edgeguarder, so pretty much every character other than Jiggs would probably have a hard time recovering against him. As a Melee Samus main, even I have extreme trouble recovering against a Marth. I usually go for two things. Sweetspot the ledge EXTREMELY well (or you risk being fsmashed or dtilted) or go high, even though Marth does make it hard for chars to get down and Zard already has difficulty descending.
Oh, by going high, you also have access to a couple other options. You can try to beat out Marth with a glair, which spurts him forward, or you could make him think you're going for that and cancel to the ledge. Don't forget you have nair for descending and you can bait reactions with multiple jumps. Now that Zard can act out of gliding, you might want to save at least one your jumps until after your glide. You're gonna have to mix it up. There are probably more options available but those are what come to mind.
Also, sometimes it just becomes a war of attrition. Zard is heavy and Marth kinda sucks at outright killing, especially vertically, so use those high platforms.
(ledge options after sweet spotting) Zard does seem a little weak in that department. Fair is faster now, so you could try ledgehop fair. Ledgehop nair could be a thing. You can also stall by repeatedly gliding/glairing into the ledge, although I don't know how smart that is against Marth. Of course, you always have your ledgejump, which could be useful when coupled with nair. Try these things out in matches.
metroid1117:
It's really hard to get back to the stage against Marth, but you might be able to mix edge jumping (up/Y/X) -> NAir with edge jumping -> double-jump -> falling NAir.
Sheik:
I actually don't think Sheik is that bad. At low %s, you can CC all of her ground attacks except for grab and you're faster than her, so you can chase after her with dash-canceled jabs and grabs reasonably safely. Getting grabbed, combo'd, and edgeguarded sucks, but Sheik has low aerial mobility so you can juggle her pretty well and her recovery is easily edgeguarded. I wouldn't call it in Charizard's favor, but I don't think it's that bad.
I agree with the point that Charizard is easy to tech chase, but it's not that hard to DI Sheik's throws on reaction; the DThrow has such a distinct animation that if you always DI for the BThrow, you react to the DThrow and switch your DI. It might take some practice (and years of seeing Sheik's DThrow from prior experience doesn't hurt either), but the DI mix-up between BThrow and DThrow is not that good.
Bubbaking:
Sheik ***** Charizard off of a grab. Charizard's huge, so if you don't DI dthrow perfectly (down and away), you get jab > regrabbed. If you do, you risk getting bthrow CG'd/comboed. I'm also fairly certain that, unless you 100% commit to DI'ing bthrow, you still get comboed from it. Even if you DI dthrow well and she still uses it, Sheik can tech-chase Zard on reaction. Sheik's perfectly at home with tech-chasing. A Sheik that's tech-chasing is a Sheik to fear. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure that dthrow still combos Zard unless you DI it, like, perfectly at high %'s.
About the dthrow > jab > regrab, Mario gets the same exact stuff on Zard after a dthrow and it's disgusting. At least Bowser can attempt to upB after the jab, but Zard really has nothing. Obviously, if you don't react to Sheik's grab fast enough and fail to DI the dthrow at all, then you're getting CG'd. It's really a lose/lose/lose situation. Don't get grabbed. I've done the Zard:Sheik MU multiple times from the Sheik side; grabs are ridiculous.
Squirtle:
Wolf:
Zelda:
Also, I would have to say that Zard vs Zelda is nearly a one sided match in Zelda's favor by far. Whenever my mate is playing Zelda I can't find any safe approach, nor can I just wait for an opening as Zelda can just camp with her sideb.
Stingers:
yeah zelda destroys zard. just rush in while shes putting the fire out, thats the only thing Ive found that works decently.
Peach:
Needs 2.5 or newer strategy:
Ganondorf:
BarBond:
I would like to say that Charizard vs Ganon can be a ***** if the Ganon has some good spacing.
But, you can play keep away for a bit with flamethrower and DDing. You just have to look for an opening and then go hard with combos and good reads.
Bubbaking:
The problem is that Ganon can hit even harder with his own combos and good reads. Flamethrower is a solid keep-away tool, though. DD is too, but I constantly get surprised by Ganon's sideB. It's kinda like an anti-DD tool if he uses it right.
Lucario:
Luigi:
Bubbaking:
Zard has a tough time against anyone who doesn't have to approach or can stop his approach with ease, neither of which Luigi can really do. Luigi has a great spacing tool in the form of ftilt, but both Zard's ftilt and dtilt out-space it without being (much) slower frame-wise. I also feel like Luigi would be a lot more susceptible to OoS tactics, like shieldgrabs, than most other chars, and Zard thrives off of those.
Recovery-wise, Zard can just jump out there and gimp him. Luigi can store a misfire to switch things up, but that's a one-time thing and doesn't save him in the long run. Tornado also won't save him once Zard starts nairing.
On the other side, Zard gets heavily combo'd once Luigi gets a hit in and Luigi's harder hitting attacks can kill him earlier than he's used to. Fireballs can make life hard, but they're really just a minor annoyance. The main problem I see for Zard here is that Luigi is so hard to combo extensively. A slight screw-up and Zard eats a nair to the face. Luigi is also way harder for Zard to hit with the generic upB combos. For this reason, I think I'd rather go for horizontal gimps/KOs against Luigi then for the BnB vertical KOs that Zard normally flies with.
Luigi isn't really going to be stopping Zard from getting back to the stage. He may be able to hit him off again, but if he doesn't KO him outright, Zard will recover. Luigi also doesn't get his usual invincibility advantage (after coming back from a lost stock) that he would have in most MUs 'cause Zard can simply escape with Fly, and Luigi, IMO, isn't so good at fighting opponents who are above him, so Zard can easily stall out the invincibility in the air and then come back down.
Pit:
Bubbaking:
Luckily, arrows don't do that much damage, and uncharged at any distance other than close-range, they don't hit-confirm into anything other than a quick reset (always know your options in a reset situation). The problem in this MU for me is the nair. I've played against GuruKid's Pit and my Pit has played against John12346's Zard and from what I've observed, the moment Zard gets close enough to actually threaten Pit, he gets an easy way out in the form of a nair that's spaced to land behind your shield. If Zard actually gets hit by the nair, that's mega damage, thanks to combos and grabs and whatnot. Zard's CC isn't really good enough to counter this either. As of now, the only strategy I can think of to combat this is to predict the nair and try to position accordingly ahead of time. I don't know if you've ever played vBrawl, but in a sense, it's like predicting a DACUS from Snake when he's cornered on a flat stage. You know it's gonna happen but you have to predict it, because it's really fast and when it's over, he ends up behind you.
Edit: I also need to mention that Pit is one of the few guys who outright threatens Zard's recovery at all stages. I believe glair should out-prioritize anything Pit tries to do close-up, but arrows can eat up jumps and glides and cause Zard to just fall without gaining much distance. As for recovering low, Pit's dtilt and dair meteor and he can also reverse Zard's horizontal momentum (from both upB and glair) with his mirror shield. (>.<)
Anyway, about reset situations, I will admit that Zard actually doesn't have many options, especially in the situation being discussed regarding Pit. He has upB, since it's invincible for the first four frames and hits on frame 5, making it similar to Bowser's, Samus's, and Pit's upB's. He has spot-dodge and roll, which are really bad options. Lastly, he has jab which hits on frame 5, making it faster than nearly anything Pit has to offer (even Pit's jab is just as slow since it hits on frame 5 as well). I may be missing some options, and I probably am, but I believe these are the main things to be mindful of. Basically, know these options and quickly gauge the situation in order to make an intelligent choice.
Sonic:
metroid1117
As I've said before, Sonic is a hard match-up but it's still winnable. Approaching from the air isn't safe because Sonic can just run away and punish you when you come down; you want to stay grounded as much as possible. However, waiting around and trying to hit him as he comes in isn't good either; it leaves Sonic with too much momentum and it's too easy to get baited. Instead, try to keep as much pressure on Sonic as possible. Dash-canceled jab is great in this match-up since it beats out or trades with Sonic's approaches, puts Sonic off the ground (which is VERY important), and comes out reasonably quickly (according to Rude, it comes out on frame 5). Leelue's Sonic uses more homing attack (HA) than Rat; when on the ground, try shielding the HA or, if you read a HA, USmash. In the match above, you stayed in the air and tried coming down with NAir too often. It worked sometimes, but Leelue got around it by dashdancing or shielding.
Sonic is tough to deal with on the ground, but if you get him in the air then he's more manageable. He doesn't have his dash-dance in the air, so his mobility is much worse; the key to this match-up is to try to keep him in the air as much as possible. Up+B and side+B are good combo-breakers in the air (especially side+B because of its invincibility frames), so don't try to be too ambitious with UAir -> up+B combos. Even when Sonic is in the air, try sticking on the ground unless (1) Sonic is in hitstun and you're comboing/chasing him or (2) Sonic is in a position to get NAir'd or be hit by any other aerial while coming back to the ground. If Sonic is above you, USmash is very good for sucking him, even if he DAirs. If you read a DAir, you can try styling on him and DSmashing the area he'll land on, but it's a pretty difficult read and most opponents will be too smart for that. You tried USmashing a couple of times, but there were moments like at 0:09, 1:21, and 3:15 where you could've tried an USmash out-of-shield.
Unfortunately for Charizard, Sonic has several options to edgeguard him; the one that seemed to give you the most trouble was HA. I usually avoid this by going as low as possible before jumping and up+B'ing, rather than gliding towards the stage and run the risk of getting HA'd. Since you can't get spring-attacked during up+B, recovering with it is reasonably safe but you run the risk of getting edgehogged and it has a small sweetspot. Either way, the key is to mix it up. In the match above, you jumped immediately and tried to recover high almost every time; you got HA'd on your first two stocks, baited into an FSmash on the third, and FAir spiked on the fourth.
Edgeguarding Sonic is tricky, but the goal is to negate his ability to jump out of side+B. I usually try jumping out with sour-spot NAir when I see him side+B and hope that I catch him out of his double-jump or, if you want to be ballsy, you can try killing him out-right with side+B. If Sonic goes high with spring, the best you can do is try using USmash to cover the probable DAir or read an airdodge, depending on Sonic's position. It's trickier if Sonic goes low and springs; you can try going for a tipped DTilt, but if you mess up you'll hit him back up and he can side+B onto the stage. Depending on the position, you can try sour-spot NAir to send him back out or DAir'ing him as he comes up, but it's not an easy position to kill him from. Leelue never really left himself in a position to get edgeguarded, so I can't really comment on this from your perspective.
Tl;dr - This is a hard match-up and keeping Sonic in the air is the most manageable way to do it.
Wario:
Sempai:
Also, I have a ton of Wario experience. He gets behind your shield so easily preventing shield grabs and nair oos hits JUST barely above his head. Short characters don't deserve to be fat too ._. Also, there's nothing Zard can do to beat shoulder bash when he's offstage. Recovering low gives Wario the easiest Dair spike by far and Zard's recovery options does not allow him to recover diagonally. Well, I could glide down then up, but then I'd lose to both shoulder bash and dair since zard has to like nose dive into the ledge for half a second before grabbing it. Wario also drifts out of all of zard's uair combos.
Kink-Link5
I still think overall the matchup is very slightly in Charizard's favour, but that it is close enough to even to be called so. Charizard's anti air options stuff a lot of what Wario can do, leaving him to even more 1-dimensional moves.
Needs any strategy:
Diddy Kong:
Game and Watch:
Ice Climbers:
Ivysaur:
Kirby:
Mewtwo:
Olimar:
Pikachu:
R.O.B.:
Roy:
Samus:
Snake:
Toon Link:
Yoshi:
More to come!
As discussions continue, a color will be applied to each character giving a sense of how hard they are for Zard:
Red for difficult;
Yellow for slightly either way;
Green for easy.
Enjoy!
Fox:
I sort of agree that fox is hard to approach, it's all about getting the correct spacing, and stage control is so crucial in the MU (as well as stage, since as you very correctly pointed out that smaller stages are better for Zard). The neutral game isn't really who gets the first hit, it's who is going to be more brave while vying for stage control, if either character get's cornered, it's a lot worse (i'd say worse for fox but still bad for both). Also, you should really be jumping against fox unless you're aiming for the backswing of Nair, since that's perfectly safe, that way he can't punish you jump and he really doesn't gain much if you whiff.
As for the shield pressure...trust me, Up b is as fast as Bowser's, It's 4 frames on startup. Also he's the killer, IT'S INVINCIBLE THE FIRST 3 FRAMES (something that I just learned since I was wondering why I was getting away with it because I think your right), so you're invincible until your first hitbox get's thrown out. You can get out of almost any shield pressure with it, I really recommend experimenting with it. I mean, you can't just do it to any move, but anything that has even a few frames of lag is susceptible. Fox should be scared of your OOS options, so should a lot of characters.
King DeDeDe:
ph00tbag:
DDD seems to give Charizard a lot of trouble. Ftilt prevents the lizard from really doing anything on the ground. Although Darksyde made the observation that SH Heat Wave was really hard for DDD to work around, which I would agree with. Overall, though, Charizard usually has to go to the air first, which really puts DDD at the advantage.
Link:
Mario:
ItalianStallion:
From my experience, all I can say is that Mario seems to be really difficult for Charizard. The pills, *ahem* I mean Fireballs keep Charizard bottled down. Mario also has quicker moves than Charizard that also have quite a bit of strength.
Plus Charizard is a Fire breathing lizard-dragon thing, which is kind of close to Bowser. And as we all know, Mario beats Bowser all the time in multiple games.
Ness:
Zero Suit Samus:
Bowser:
Bubbaking:
Bowser has some nasty stuff while edgeguarding us (and everyone). His Bowser Bomb can cover a lot of vertical space above him really quickly, so it catches glides and DJs that try to go over him. The same Bomb also destroys vertical recoveries (I watched my friend's, Soup's, Mario get totally messed up time and time again because of this) for free, and if he's too early, which he will be more than being too late, he gets a ledgehog, so Zard has to watch out if he's coming back with upB. I think 2.5 Zard's ability to act after gliding is going to be a godsend for this specific MU because of these things.
Captain Falcon:
Bubbaking:
I kind of see Zard's MU vs Falcon to be somewhat analogous to ROB's MU vs Falcon. Both have a hard time at neutral due to Falcon's great speed, DD, and shield mix-ups, and both get combo'd super hard by the captain. ROB's MU, itself, is actually analogous to Melee Samus's MU vs Falcon, so I'm gonna make a bit of a stretch here and quote some advice that HugS made on the Samus boards a while ago: "Falcon rules the air while you rule the ground."
Like ROB, if Zard can get a shieldgrab off on C.Falcon, then it should convert into either a lot of damage or a death, even at 0%. Falcon is one of the easier chars in the game to tech-chase due to his abnormally long get-up animation, something that transferred over from Melee. Therefore, dthrow TC's should be a BnB thing on Falcon. Being a fast-faller, Falcon is also naturally combo'd by Zard a lot easier than the rest of the cast is. He kinda just falls into all the hits, making them super easy to link. I believe I may have played one game of Zard vs Gallo's Falcon, but I don't think it was recorded.
In general, I think Zard prefers small stages against Falcon, to cut down on Falcon's mobility advantage while making Zard's TC's and combos easier and opening Falcon up to gimps a lot faster.
metroid1117
As stated before, Falcon's greatest strength lies in his neutral game; his dash dance is excellent, which lets him weave in-and-out while fishing for grabs and aerials. Similarly for Sonic, don't try to wait out his approach and shut him out with DTilts and jabs; go very deep and interrupt his dash-dancing with dash-canceled jab or DTilt. Try to stay on the ground as much as possible in the neutral state, spacing him out with NAir does not work very well. You won't be able to do anything if he gets you with a grab, but if you're at low %s, you may be able to crouch-cancel his NAir and jab like how Kage often does that against Falcons in Melee (granted, Charizard's jab comes out on frame 5 whereas Ganon's Melee jab comes out on frame 3).
You might be able to DThrow techchase Falcon all day, but I prefer to use DSmash to techchase. Once you get Falcon on the ground with jab, it's just a matter of spamming DSmash. If you're next to him as he is forced to tumble onto the ground, stationary DSmash covers missed tech, tech-in-place, and techroll behind, whereas running DSmash covers techroll away (to which you can react instead of having to read). From my experience, DSmash techchases are better than DThrow techchases because you have more time to get in position before they tech, it does more damage, it sets up for combos incredibly well, and you can follow up with waveland -> DSmash or just USmash if they try teching onto a platform. However, given the nature of Falcon's recovery, you might want to use DThrow if they tech towards the edge of the stage so that you can try beating out their attempted meteor cancel with run-off DAir. If you get up+B'd against the stage while edgeguarding him, you can Rockcrock DAir him.
Speaking of edgeguarding, tipped DTilt is the best way to kill Falcon. If you sourspot it and he doesn't have a jump, you can try going for a side+B, which is made easier to connect because he'll be DI'ing in from trying to survive the tipped DTilt. The same is true if he's coming from above; you can go for a jab -> jump -> side+B as long as he doesn't have a jump. If he does have a jump, he'll probably be able to jump out before side+B hits. Otherwise, you can also just grab the edge to force him to land on the stage with up+B (watch out for the possible side+B spike), waveland, then edgehop DAir -> side+B or DSmash -> side+B to send him back out.
The rest of the match-up is pretty clear (both characters can combo and edgeguard the other extremely hard); I think this match-up is in Falcon's favor because it's so much easier for him to finish his combos with hard-hitting attacks (namely, the knee), but it's still winnable.
Bubbaking:
Also watch out for the possible stage-spike from upB if you hang on the ledge too long. Btw, speaking of edgeguarding, Zard's dsmash is practically identical to his dair. Both moves pop grounded opponents up into the air and meteor aerial opponents. This is especially relevant to Falcon's recovery because of the likelihood that Falcon's head will pop up a little higher than the ledge sweetspot. In this case, Zard's well-timed dsmash will actually meteor Falcon as if he had been daired.
Donkey Kong:
Falco:
Bubbaking:
In all honesty, even though Falco's approach options and shield pressure are OP, I'd rather that they approach and give me the possibility of landing shieldgrabs, upB's OoS, and other things to punish messed-up spacing (either by mistake or caused by me). Falco is also one of the easiest chars in the game for Zard to combo and gimp, and surprisingly, he can do that job better than a very good portion of the P:M cast. However, if Falco decides to go maximum camp mode, I think Zard is finished.
I'm talking about a very skilled Falco who realizes that he can win by being as defensive as possible. In other words, this Falco will camp Zard out as hard as he can and he'll only go aggro when Zard gets close enough to be somewhat of a threat. I've never met a Falco who did that. All the spacees I know personally go aggro eventually, and I believe that this has allowed me to win matches with Zard. However, I also believe that if a very good Falco ever decides to just go all-out campy while still having a very good punish and CQC game, then I'm finished. This is why I labelled the Falco:Zard MU as (--). It has the very practical potential to be one of Zard's absolute worst MUs, even harder than Lucario.
metroid1117
I haven't played any good Falcos with Charizard so I won't say much on the match-up, but learning how to powershield will make this a lot easier. Powershielding consistently is hard, but even if you get one powershield out of a dash, you can wavedash out-of-shield and punish Falco pretty hard with basically any character. This set is old, but that's basically my strategy in Melee whenever I play against a Falco with Marth. I'm not saying basing your strategy against powershielding is a good thing, but powershielding is a vital skill to learn against spam-heavy characters like Falco.
Ike:
Jigglypuff:
BarBond:
I would say its a bit in jiggs' favor but, it is definitely winnable. Since charizard's bair has an awesome range he can compete with the jiggly's spacing in the air I think.
And damn is nair awesome in this match up.
Kink-Link5:
Charizard is a lot like a heavier Jigglypuff with better range on his BnB aerial, but gets set up hard into rest combos. It's definitely winnable by just playing homo though.
Bubbaking:
If Jiggs wasn't so light, I'd absolutely hate this MU, since Zard is only capable of landing one- and two-hit strings on her most of the time. Jiggs beats him through aerial mobility that allows her to weave in and out of his stuff but Zard can probably wall her out with far-reaching aerials to make things closer to even.
Lucas:
Marth:
vs Marth - Zard is a big target (I said that before). What gets Marth here is how insanely easy he is to juggle. Once he enters the air, he needs a good Counter or dair read to get back down. Zard's nair will even catch his spot-dodge. If he's offstage, he's dead unless he recovers high. Marth can't sweetspot against Zard's nair or his flamethrower. So then why do I think Marth wins? Marth's on-stage game more than makes up for his ability to be juggled and his offstage game. That sword is really hard for Zard to get past. Double fair from Marth is practically a wall. Also, Zard can find himself being juggled, which is not something that generally happens to Zard. Marth's uair/utilt mix-up can keep Zard in the air for a long time and it beats out or trades with nair. Also, if Marth catches Zard not DIing fthrow well, tipper fsmash will cut his life short below 100% on most stages, which is devastating for such a heavyweight, and I've even seen Emukiller land fthrow > dair spike off bad DI. At the beginning of every stock, if Zard is grabbed, it's a free CG to the edge of the stage into a fsmash (which will be tippered if the DI is right) or a spike (bad DI).
Also, Marth can edgeguard Zard pretty hard. Dtilt and fsmash catch every low recovery, outside of sweetspotted upB, and fsmash also beats out Zard's glair. Zard's best bet is usually to go high, but he can be juggled on the way down, and if he's sent back off without a glide, it's curtains for him.
Bubbaking:
Charizard is really good when his opponent is above him; he gets better advantages than a lot of other chars get. Likewise, Marth is really bad when his opponent is below him. If you can get Marth into the air, you can harass/damage/kill him while he struggles to touch the ground. In this respect, Zard's usmash is actually very effective. Along these lines, Zard actually wants to remain on the main stage while he keeps Marth on the plats. Also, if you can get Marth offstage, it's a fairly easy gimp.
Now, the problem here is exactly what you're observing. On flat levels (and the main level of plat stages), Marth completely out-prioritizes Zard in the approaching game. I wouldn't suggest using falling nairs too often because Marth becomes one of the strongest chars in the game when his opponent is above him. Zard isn't weakened to 'Marth in the air' levels when he's above his opponent, thanks to dair, nair, and multiple aerial jumps, but NO ONE wants to be above Marth. I would say to utilize your great DD and your CC (boosted by your weight) to bait Marth into doing things and then punish. You can also try to force an action from him by shoving a shield in his face and then shield-grabbing his fair.
Well Marth is an extremely good edgeguarder, so pretty much every character other than Jiggs would probably have a hard time recovering against him. As a Melee Samus main, even I have extreme trouble recovering against a Marth. I usually go for two things. Sweetspot the ledge EXTREMELY well (or you risk being fsmashed or dtilted) or go high, even though Marth does make it hard for chars to get down and Zard already has difficulty descending.
Oh, by going high, you also have access to a couple other options. You can try to beat out Marth with a glair, which spurts him forward, or you could make him think you're going for that and cancel to the ledge. Don't forget you have nair for descending and you can bait reactions with multiple jumps. Now that Zard can act out of gliding, you might want to save at least one your jumps until after your glide. You're gonna have to mix it up. There are probably more options available but those are what come to mind.
Also, sometimes it just becomes a war of attrition. Zard is heavy and Marth kinda sucks at outright killing, especially vertically, so use those high platforms.
(ledge options after sweet spotting) Zard does seem a little weak in that department. Fair is faster now, so you could try ledgehop fair. Ledgehop nair could be a thing. You can also stall by repeatedly gliding/glairing into the ledge, although I don't know how smart that is against Marth. Of course, you always have your ledgejump, which could be useful when coupled with nair. Try these things out in matches.
metroid1117:
It's really hard to get back to the stage against Marth, but you might be able to mix edge jumping (up/Y/X) -> NAir with edge jumping -> double-jump -> falling NAir.
Sheik:
metroid1117:Came back to say that Metroid was kinda right.....in a way. I've played both Hat's Sheik in a $5 MM and Kels' Sheik in tourney and beaten them both. Zard:Sheik isn't that bad the way a lot of Sheiks are playing the MU, but it should be REALLY bad. I still stand by my own experiences as Sheik against John12346's Zard (his Zard is very solid; it beat The Moon, 4-stocking him in the process, and Cel/Codi; John also got 3rd in a large P:M tourney in NY with several prominent players in attendance). I play a very cheap, defensive Sheik because I don't like to put up with BS, and against this methodical no-nonsense cheapness, Zard can't really do anything. Yes, Zard edgeguards Sheik pretty well, but you know what? So does Samus in Melee and Sheik is Samus' hardest MU. Yeah, Zard can CC all of Sheik's ground attacks, but again, so can Samus, and she has even better CCC's. This doesn't make the MU any better for her. Zard doesn't even have Samus' OoS prowess.
Forgetting about char and MU comparison, I still strongly feel that, when played well, Sheik shuts down Zard, but going by my 100% win ratio against good Sheiks, I guess they don't know how to play the MU yet. This is kind of like what happened with Leelue and the Sonic:Sheik MU where Leelue believed that Sheik won but he settled for even or Sonic's favor because he'd never lost to a Sheik in tourney.
I actually don't think Sheik is that bad. At low %s, you can CC all of her ground attacks except for grab and you're faster than her, so you can chase after her with dash-canceled jabs and grabs reasonably safely. Getting grabbed, combo'd, and edgeguarded sucks, but Sheik has low aerial mobility so you can juggle her pretty well and her recovery is easily edgeguarded. I wouldn't call it in Charizard's favor, but I don't think it's that bad.
I agree with the point that Charizard is easy to tech chase, but it's not that hard to DI Sheik's throws on reaction; the DThrow has such a distinct animation that if you always DI for the BThrow, you react to the DThrow and switch your DI. It might take some practice (and years of seeing Sheik's DThrow from prior experience doesn't hurt either), but the DI mix-up between BThrow and DThrow is not that good.
Bubbaking:
Sheik ***** Charizard off of a grab. Charizard's huge, so if you don't DI dthrow perfectly (down and away), you get jab > regrabbed. If you do, you risk getting bthrow CG'd/comboed. I'm also fairly certain that, unless you 100% commit to DI'ing bthrow, you still get comboed from it. Even if you DI dthrow well and she still uses it, Sheik can tech-chase Zard on reaction. Sheik's perfectly at home with tech-chasing. A Sheik that's tech-chasing is a Sheik to fear. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure that dthrow still combos Zard unless you DI it, like, perfectly at high %'s.
About the dthrow > jab > regrab, Mario gets the same exact stuff on Zard after a dthrow and it's disgusting. At least Bowser can attempt to upB after the jab, but Zard really has nothing. Obviously, if you don't react to Sheik's grab fast enough and fail to DI the dthrow at all, then you're getting CG'd. It's really a lose/lose/lose situation. Don't get grabbed. I've done the Zard:Sheik MU multiple times from the Sheik side; grabs are ridiculous.
Squirtle:
Wolf:
Zelda:
BarBond:
Also, I would have to say that Zard vs Zelda is nearly a one sided match in Zelda's favor by far. Whenever my mate is playing Zelda I can't find any safe approach, nor can I just wait for an opening as Zelda can just camp with her sideb.
Stingers:
yeah zelda destroys zard. just rush in while shes putting the fire out, thats the only thing Ive found that works decently.
Peach:
Needs 2.5 or newer strategy:
Ganondorf:
BarBond:
I would like to say that Charizard vs Ganon can be a ***** if the Ganon has some good spacing.
But, you can play keep away for a bit with flamethrower and DDing. You just have to look for an opening and then go hard with combos and good reads.
Bubbaking:
The problem is that Ganon can hit even harder with his own combos and good reads. Flamethrower is a solid keep-away tool, though. DD is too, but I constantly get surprised by Ganon's sideB. It's kinda like an anti-DD tool if he uses it right.
Lucario:
Luigi:
Bubbaking:
Zard has a tough time against anyone who doesn't have to approach or can stop his approach with ease, neither of which Luigi can really do. Luigi has a great spacing tool in the form of ftilt, but both Zard's ftilt and dtilt out-space it without being (much) slower frame-wise. I also feel like Luigi would be a lot more susceptible to OoS tactics, like shieldgrabs, than most other chars, and Zard thrives off of those.
Recovery-wise, Zard can just jump out there and gimp him. Luigi can store a misfire to switch things up, but that's a one-time thing and doesn't save him in the long run. Tornado also won't save him once Zard starts nairing.
On the other side, Zard gets heavily combo'd once Luigi gets a hit in and Luigi's harder hitting attacks can kill him earlier than he's used to. Fireballs can make life hard, but they're really just a minor annoyance. The main problem I see for Zard here is that Luigi is so hard to combo extensively. A slight screw-up and Zard eats a nair to the face. Luigi is also way harder for Zard to hit with the generic upB combos. For this reason, I think I'd rather go for horizontal gimps/KOs against Luigi then for the BnB vertical KOs that Zard normally flies with.
Luigi isn't really going to be stopping Zard from getting back to the stage. He may be able to hit him off again, but if he doesn't KO him outright, Zard will recover. Luigi also doesn't get his usual invincibility advantage (after coming back from a lost stock) that he would have in most MUs 'cause Zard can simply escape with Fly, and Luigi, IMO, isn't so good at fighting opponents who are above him, so Zard can easily stall out the invincibility in the air and then come back down.
Pit:
Bubbaking:
Luckily, arrows don't do that much damage, and uncharged at any distance other than close-range, they don't hit-confirm into anything other than a quick reset (always know your options in a reset situation). The problem in this MU for me is the nair. I've played against GuruKid's Pit and my Pit has played against John12346's Zard and from what I've observed, the moment Zard gets close enough to actually threaten Pit, he gets an easy way out in the form of a nair that's spaced to land behind your shield. If Zard actually gets hit by the nair, that's mega damage, thanks to combos and grabs and whatnot. Zard's CC isn't really good enough to counter this either. As of now, the only strategy I can think of to combat this is to predict the nair and try to position accordingly ahead of time. I don't know if you've ever played vBrawl, but in a sense, it's like predicting a DACUS from Snake when he's cornered on a flat stage. You know it's gonna happen but you have to predict it, because it's really fast and when it's over, he ends up behind you.
Edit: I also need to mention that Pit is one of the few guys who outright threatens Zard's recovery at all stages. I believe glair should out-prioritize anything Pit tries to do close-up, but arrows can eat up jumps and glides and cause Zard to just fall without gaining much distance. As for recovering low, Pit's dtilt and dair meteor and he can also reverse Zard's horizontal momentum (from both upB and glair) with his mirror shield. (>.<)
Anyway, about reset situations, I will admit that Zard actually doesn't have many options, especially in the situation being discussed regarding Pit. He has upB, since it's invincible for the first four frames and hits on frame 5, making it similar to Bowser's, Samus's, and Pit's upB's. He has spot-dodge and roll, which are really bad options. Lastly, he has jab which hits on frame 5, making it faster than nearly anything Pit has to offer (even Pit's jab is just as slow since it hits on frame 5 as well). I may be missing some options, and I probably am, but I believe these are the main things to be mindful of. Basically, know these options and quickly gauge the situation in order to make an intelligent choice.
Sonic:
metroid1117
As I've said before, Sonic is a hard match-up but it's still winnable. Approaching from the air isn't safe because Sonic can just run away and punish you when you come down; you want to stay grounded as much as possible. However, waiting around and trying to hit him as he comes in isn't good either; it leaves Sonic with too much momentum and it's too easy to get baited. Instead, try to keep as much pressure on Sonic as possible. Dash-canceled jab is great in this match-up since it beats out or trades with Sonic's approaches, puts Sonic off the ground (which is VERY important), and comes out reasonably quickly (according to Rude, it comes out on frame 5). Leelue's Sonic uses more homing attack (HA) than Rat; when on the ground, try shielding the HA or, if you read a HA, USmash. In the match above, you stayed in the air and tried coming down with NAir too often. It worked sometimes, but Leelue got around it by dashdancing or shielding.
Sonic is tough to deal with on the ground, but if you get him in the air then he's more manageable. He doesn't have his dash-dance in the air, so his mobility is much worse; the key to this match-up is to try to keep him in the air as much as possible. Up+B and side+B are good combo-breakers in the air (especially side+B because of its invincibility frames), so don't try to be too ambitious with UAir -> up+B combos. Even when Sonic is in the air, try sticking on the ground unless (1) Sonic is in hitstun and you're comboing/chasing him or (2) Sonic is in a position to get NAir'd or be hit by any other aerial while coming back to the ground. If Sonic is above you, USmash is very good for sucking him, even if he DAirs. If you read a DAir, you can try styling on him and DSmashing the area he'll land on, but it's a pretty difficult read and most opponents will be too smart for that. You tried USmashing a couple of times, but there were moments like at 0:09, 1:21, and 3:15 where you could've tried an USmash out-of-shield.
Unfortunately for Charizard, Sonic has several options to edgeguard him; the one that seemed to give you the most trouble was HA. I usually avoid this by going as low as possible before jumping and up+B'ing, rather than gliding towards the stage and run the risk of getting HA'd. Since you can't get spring-attacked during up+B, recovering with it is reasonably safe but you run the risk of getting edgehogged and it has a small sweetspot. Either way, the key is to mix it up. In the match above, you jumped immediately and tried to recover high almost every time; you got HA'd on your first two stocks, baited into an FSmash on the third, and FAir spiked on the fourth.
Edgeguarding Sonic is tricky, but the goal is to negate his ability to jump out of side+B. I usually try jumping out with sour-spot NAir when I see him side+B and hope that I catch him out of his double-jump or, if you want to be ballsy, you can try killing him out-right with side+B. If Sonic goes high with spring, the best you can do is try using USmash to cover the probable DAir or read an airdodge, depending on Sonic's position. It's trickier if Sonic goes low and springs; you can try going for a tipped DTilt, but if you mess up you'll hit him back up and he can side+B onto the stage. Depending on the position, you can try sour-spot NAir to send him back out or DAir'ing him as he comes up, but it's not an easy position to kill him from. Leelue never really left himself in a position to get edgeguarded, so I can't really comment on this from your perspective.
Tl;dr - This is a hard match-up and keeping Sonic in the air is the most manageable way to do it.
Wario:
Sempai:
Also, I have a ton of Wario experience. He gets behind your shield so easily preventing shield grabs and nair oos hits JUST barely above his head. Short characters don't deserve to be fat too ._. Also, there's nothing Zard can do to beat shoulder bash when he's offstage. Recovering low gives Wario the easiest Dair spike by far and Zard's recovery options does not allow him to recover diagonally. Well, I could glide down then up, but then I'd lose to both shoulder bash and dair since zard has to like nose dive into the ledge for half a second before grabbing it. Wario also drifts out of all of zard's uair combos.
Kink-Link5
I still think overall the matchup is very slightly in Charizard's favour, but that it is close enough to even to be called so. Charizard's anti air options stuff a lot of what Wario can do, leaving him to even more 1-dimensional moves.
Needs any strategy:
Diddy Kong:
Game and Watch:
Ice Climbers:
Ivysaur:
Kirby:
Mewtwo:
Olimar:
Pikachu:
R.O.B.:
Roy:
Samus:
Snake:
Toon Link:
Yoshi:
More to come!
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