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I got destroyed by a DK in pools at a tournament this weekend. His nair has so much priority and comes out so quick it beat most of my stuff. Pretty sure you can jab him out of it though. His Fairs reach and killing power got me every time I tried to recover high. I was making a comeback in game 2 but Sd'd
. I feel like the matchup is actually pretty good for Charizard and I just played it badly.
I feel that your Glair beats any edgeguard he has. Also you can outrange him with RARed Bairs or Nairs. He can combo you like Krazy but you can to. I think that it might be a +1 for Charizard.I got destroyed by a DK in pools at a tournament this weekend. His nair has so much priority and comes out so quick it beat most of my stuff. Pretty sure you can jab him out of it though. His Fairs reach and killing power got me every time I tried to recover high. I was making a comeback in game 2 but Sd'd
Pretty freaking good for Zard. If DK is offstage he's essentially dead since Nair can stuff any of his recoveries. The only thing is that DK gets some pretty good combos on Zard, but unless they are 0-deaths all the time, he will still loose. Also he doesn't really have any answer to Nair.
DK has a fairly good approach against Zard, with a lot of mix-ups. Nair isn't quick enough to be used defensively against DK. Also DK is cake to approach so stay on the offensive.
What sorts of approaches does he have that can't be anti air-d or stuffed with Nair? His Nair is fast, but you shouldn't ever be that close to him (it is also isn't safe on shield and can be stuffed with Jab if you're fast enough). Bair is good but is it by no means safe. Fair has range but you can se it coming a mile away. Dair and Uair aren't useful. Dash attack can be blocked and punished. His best approach is probably Bair, but if you're facing away from him it's a free Nair, if your facing him it's a shield grab if he miss spaces it or at worst you return to the neutral game where you can grossly outspace him with Nair.
Jab also shuts down fireballs and hits him to boot
It is a bad match up. Nair is laggy btw and I can just grab you when you land and then get a huge combo. D smash can be baited rather easily and I'll just short hop towards you to avoid the hit box and get another combo. Jab is actually a pretty good option though. Let me ask you something. Which Mario are you facing? I'd like to see a video proving it's a bad MU.
On the contrary I agree with TT. you can stuff any of his approaches with Nair/Jab. If you're getting punished for it, you're using Nair wrong. You aren't supposed to try and hit with the start up of it when people are on the ground, else you will get WD OOS grabbed. If you use it like a RAR anti air when Mario approaches with a fireball, it will stuff the fire and you can't block in the air so you're going to get hit. Otherwise, you should always be trying to hit with the backswing of the tail to keep it safe. Same principle applies to jab
Again I need video evidence. What Mario player are you facing? He doesn't sound good. Most Zards I've seen on Youtube against Mario (and Zards I faced) usually get beaten, not destroyed but solid 2 stocks. Especially M2K's Mario. There needs to be more Zards going to tournaments. Please, I'm not saying your argument is invalid I just need proof.
I'm not saying it's 100% in Mario's favor. That's the beauty of PM, but it is in Mario's favor due a good projectle and better punishment, but Zard has range on his side and is pretty decent at edgeguarding. I'd say 60:40 Mario.
Here's the vid, again, not super good for either, we went really even. He got big combos but I could space him out and kill the pills with jab or Nair. So while his combo game is better, his projectiles can be nullified pretty substantially.
You should face me. Do you have wifi? That dude is decent but he could have shielded a lot of those nairs and wavedashed OoS to grab. He also missed some combos that would have lead to death. I know wifi is irritating but I just want to show you some things.
I'll be getting dolphin net-play in a few weeks, playing on wifi won't prove anything with the lag.
I can live with that
Seems to be our tragic fate :/
Sorry about not replying sooner, the last couple months were the last of this semester so I was focusing on school.
I prefer alphabetical, but nothing CTRL+F can't deal with.
DK's dash attack is actually really safe if used right. A lot of players don't realized that it's jump cancelable at the end (without going off the edge). As weird as it sounds, late-ish hit on dash attack on a shield is safe because he can do a grounded up B at the end (from the jump cancel), which often pokes. Even when it doesn't he can kind drift away during it. I agree that the match up overall it's probs in Zard's favor though (edgeguarding is free). But dash attack is a decent approach for DK.
Yeah it isn't JC-able anymore. That was easily one of his best approaches.
No, it definitely is. The changelist says it isn't, but in reality it's just only JC-able at the end. My friend still does this to me (and I have 3.02
). He mentioned how they said they took it out and how instead the timing just got tighter.
Hmm, even still Zard walls him out super hard. I'd say the MU is probably 65:35 in Zard's favor just from the edge guards and neutral game alone.No, it definitely is. The changelist says it isn't, but in reality it's just only JC-able at the end. My friend still does this to me (and I have 3.02
Yeah, I definitely think it's in Zard's favor. I probably wouldn't go as far as 65:35, though I guess that's somewhat subjective, since 65:35 means different things to us
robosteven
2 - 0'd me pretty solid with olimar (he's gotten so damn good with him lol). Any advice for that MU? He was being very passive / defensive, and I couldn't tell when the hell he was grabbing due to the pikmin being so low to the ground.
It's tricky. I don't want to make it so simple, but at least against me just don't get grabbed, learn the timing for the full extent of Oli's nair, and DO NOT BE ABOVE HIM EVER. I'm pretty sure half of what lost you the set was stage choices. In our set we went to WarioWare and Lylat. IMO those are Oli's best stages lolHrm, Im slowly learning all these Mus firsthand each week at SG, diversity represent lol.
However, @
I dashdance a lot.
I think Pikmin can be smacked away during grab.
What? zard nair def isn't a multihit. It's bad if you hit shield with it early.
Your best weapon against him in your spacing, Jab and Nair complete destroy any of his approaches. While he can bait you to use them ineffectively, try and keep pace with him by dash dancing a lot and moving quickly.
You have vids?
He's talking about Olimar's Nair
I basically zone fox out with zard's dash speed and range. If he doesn't respect my range enough, I'll dtilt (pivot or run cancel) or dash back nair or occasionally grab. If he does, I corner him. I would like to know why you all insist on using jabs. Dtilt has better range, it combos nicely and is still fast enough that it cannot be shielded on reaction. Zard's nair already means that fox is unlikely to jump at you. If he jumps alot I of course nair him.