Characters who you feel like missed the train earlier in the series

[fogbadge]

Then maybe Geno? Wasn't he planned to be in at some point?

no he was never considered sakurai just said he was cool

 

[SockOnForums]

no he was never considered sakurai just said he was cool

Blastoise was planned to be a Pokémon for Pokémon trainer, so I'll go with that then

 

[pupNapoleon]

I guess I just don't see why Zero would be chosen as Mega Man echo where they would have to make several liberties (adjusting his height, almost fully disregarding the saber, giving him moves that he's never used, etc) when they could just make Proto Man the MM echo and it would be way easier and not have to have any liberties taken.

It's funny, when I got off the site yesterday, I realized I was somewhat conflating Protoman and Zero.
The only real reason would be because Zero is more popular.

 

[Inferno7]

It's not that I disagree with this idea, as much as the fact that honoring the characters doesn't always matter most in Smash. It's seemingly more important in the DLC, but let's not pretend some big liberties aren't taken with many in the roster.


They may not be echoes now, but they clearly were the same thing when they were made. They were quick additions made heavily reusing assetts, who were all made quickly, with a surplus of time in development that could not have been utilized to create even a single other character. The 'clones' (which I recall as just a fanmade term, anyway- I could be wrong) from Melee are the same as the echoes of today. I don't really see how this can be argued, other than that those characters evolved to be different.

A MMX fan can 'call me out' all they want. I'm not saying Zero isn't different in his games, nor that he ideally wouldn't be different. However, that it isn't inherent in him coming in. This could be argued for almost any of the echoes that do exist (save M4rth, and potentially Dark Pit)- Daisy doesn't float, Dark Samus uses all sorts of various attacks, Ken is more variant to Ryu than Dr Mario is from Mario.... ultimately it's just a term used for marketing, and can clearly apply in a lot of situations.
Dixie would best be represented by being very different from Diddy- they certainly have enough that is different. Yet, she also could work if based on Diddy, with some tweaks.
There is also the idea that sometimes, characters from the same series just tend to play a little more similarly, to give a feeling of a shared universe. Sure, Isabelle and Villager don't actually play similarly on a competitive level, and Lucas and Ness have different evolved playstyles- but there is a reason that fans called them semi-clones at the start, because their qualities are easily related.

-His AT already includes a lot of moves (all of them tbh) that are unique to him and not Mega Man, which shows he was given official recognition. Let alone if he was an actual fighter.
-Moveset that's easy to copy-paste from MvC, so making him an echo would just be for the sake of it considering ease of implementation. Most characters have an entirely made up moveset yet this wouldn't be the case for Zero.
-Every single 3rd party fighter has something unique about them bar Richter, who's probably the least recognizable out of the bunch. And even then both SImon and him share moves to the point Sakurai said something among the lines of ''it's hard to know who's echo-ing who''.
-Body proportions are a thing, and considering it's an official rule, then that alone should just shut down every line of thought about echoes having different shapes or sizes.
-None of the Melee clones are currently classified echoes, not even Dr. Mario and Pichu yet they still feel Ken-like enough to be. Doesn't change the fact that they aren't echoes which is what you dismissed as if it didn't matter.
-Dixie doesn't have a tail so that alone should discard her as an echo
-Unlike Shadow, you can't put just out the ''he plays like Mega Man in some games'' card.
-This last point is more speculative I'll admit, but it's possible that the 3rd party companies have to give their approval in order to be able use the characters in the first place. This may also be the reason why we don't have another Sonic rep (Shadow being an echo doesn't fit him) or why Sakurai works with 3rd party devs most of the time towards the creation of a fighter's moveset.



All this is telling me is that you don't wanna believe the facts and just stick to your headcanon/logic/ignorance whatever you may call it. It essentially boils down to ''I want Zero as an echo and nothing more therefore it must be true, screw all points that tell me otherwise'', since I've yet to see any convincing argument on your part.

As I've said multiple times before, my intention isn't to be hostile in this site but I'll 100% call out BS when I see it just as I did back in SmashFAQs, and some of your comments kinda rub me the wrong way.

 

[pupNapoleon]

-His AT already includes a lot of moves (all of them tbh) that are unique to him and not Mega Man, which shows he was given official recognition. Let alone if he was an actual fighter.
-Moveset that's easy to copy-paste from MvC, so making him an echo would just be for the sake of it considering ease of implementation. Most characters have an entirely made up moveset yet this wouldn't be the case for Zero.
-Every single 3rd party fighter has something unique about them bar Richter, who's probably the least recognizable out of the bunch. And even then both SImon and him share moves to the point Sakurai said something among the lines of ''it's hard to know who's echo-ing who''.
-Body proportions are a thing, and considering it's an official rule, then that alone should just shut down every line of thought about echoes having different shapes or sizes.
-None of the Melee clones are currently classified echoes, not even Dr. Mario and Pichu yet they still feel Ken-like enough to be. Doesn't change the fact that they aren't echoes which is what you dismissed as if it didn't matter.
-Dixie doesn't have a tail so that alone should discard her as an echo
-Unlike Shadow, you can't put just out the ''he plays like Mega Man in some games'' card.
-This last point is more speculative I'll admit, but it's possible that the 3rd party companies have to give their approval in order to be able use the characters in the first place. This may also be the reason why we don't have another Sonic rep (Shadow being an echo doesn't fit him) or why Sakurai works with 3rd party devs most of the time towards the creation of a fighter's moveset.



All this is telling me is that you don't wanna believe the facts and just stick to your headcanon/logic/ignorance whatever you may call it. It essentially boils down to ''I want Zero as an echo and nothing more therefore it must be true, screw all points that tell me otherwise'', since I've yet to see any convincing argument on your part.

As I've said multiple times before, my intention isn't to be hostile in this site but I'll 100% call out BS when I see it just as I did back in SmashFAQs, and some of your comments kinda rub me the wrong way.

I did see you make the AT argument for Zero, and I see how well that turned out for Dark Samus' unique moves.

But after that, in the page load, it went to the bottom, and I saw you start attacking me as a human- so I decided this conversation is of no consequence, because you don't seem to respect that other people have their own ideas. Who knew?

 

[Laniv]

Deoxys missing out on Brawl comes to mind; it was a fairly popular request among Gen 3 Pokémon

 

[pupNapoleon]

Deoxys missing out on Brawl comes to mind; it was a fairly popular request among Gen 3 Pokémon

Considering Deoxys is a Pokemon of note, and its very unique playstyle- I'd have been quite down. However, it was probably more complicated than the Brawl mechanics would have allowed.

 

[fogbadge]

Considering Deoxys is a Pokemon of note, and its very unique playstyle- I'd have been quite down. However, it was probably more complicated than the Brawl mechanics would have allowed.

thats assuming sakurai went for a form change mechanic

 

[Oracle Link]

If Eggman doesn't get in as CP11, I'm afraid it'll be the end of the road for him. Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, or Metal all seem much more likely for the next game's base roster.

i honestly dont think so Sega only uses Sonic, Tails and eggman nowadays!

 

[StrangeKitten]

Smash 64: Meowth. I'd argue he's still relevant, being one of the main antagonists in the Anime to this day, and has gotten new forms in the games. Still, the time to add him has likely passed, as it's unlikely we'll get Pokemon newcomers who aren't from the most recent generation. Mewtwo's addition in Melee also doesn't help Meowth's case, as it fills the "antagonist/villain" role for Pokemon.

Melee: Ayumi Tachibana. I feel like she would have gotten in here if she was going to get in. She does have remakes of her games coming out, which are getting localized, giving her a worldwide release at long last. But with only one spot left for Ultimate, I'm not thinking her chances of getting in are too good. And if she doesn't get new games in the probably-a-long-while we'll wait for the next Smash... yeah.

Scizor. I believe it would have made the best gen 2 rep, being one of few Pokemon that qualify as both a new evolution of an older Pokemon, and a new type. The other two, Steelix and Umbreon, would have been more difficult to work with, especially considering Smash was still in its infancy. It wouldn't surprise me if Scizor was considered, since its attacks are some of the more elaborate of the Pokeball summons. It probably got passed over in favor of Pichu, who could rep gen 2 but be easier to add because it's a Pikachu clone, and Mewtwo, who was highly requested and who the dev team had been wanting to add.

Balloon Fighter, Urban Champion, and Excite Biker: Other retro reps who were considered, but passed over in favor of Ice Climbers. I feel like we are not likely to see them in the future, much as I'd like them.

Brawl: Krystal. She hasn't had much prominence in the more-recent Starfox games, and the Starfox franchise is currently in a rough spot. We would probably need a couple successful Starfox games to come out, with Krystal featuring prominently in at least one of them, for her to be up for consideration again.

Blastoise. Was considered to be part of PT's Pokemon. We got Squirtle instead.

A gen 3 Pokemon. Missed the boat due to coming out a little too soon.

Midna and Wolf Link. I feel like this would have been a great addition, because the Zelda cast, with the obvious exception of Toon Link, was redesigned to match Twilight Princess. Their designs no longer match TP.

Dixie with Diddy. I like this concept better than solo Diddy. I think Dixie still has a slight shot, as she's got a decent amount of support behind her and is the frontrunner for the next DK rep (especially if she continues to feature in DK games, which hopefully she will), but being able to swap with Diddy definitely isn't happening.

Issac. This was around the time when Golden Sun was at the heights of its popularity. Nowadays, it's very obscure, and only growing moreso as we go longer without any sort of revival.

Smash 4: Chorus Kids. We know they were most likely in very early development for base game before being scrapped. I'd say they currently have a very slim chance at being the final character added for Ultimate, but it's probably CP11 or bust for them. Rhythm Heaven will probably only get more niche from here on out, and they would likely be a very complicated character to add. I'm not sure the dev team would be keen on programming a complicated character if said character isn't popular. RH rep only has so-so fan demand, and not much popularity among the casual crowd.

Gen 5 Pokemon. Much like gen 3, gen 5 came out a bit too soon to make it in.

Elma. Would have been a rad choice imo, but was unfortunately passed on. I think the addition of Pyra and Mythra has sealed her fate.

Girahim: Was popular in early Smash 4 speculation from what I've heard, but probably isn't going to have much relevance in the future.

Ultimate: Spring Man. I feel like he would have gotten added had an ARMS rep not been too late for base game. I don't feel like we're missing too much here, as Min Min provides roughly the same experience, but it's nonetheless a fact that we didn't get him. He might have a future in Smash if ARMS has a future, but the quiet cancellation of the comic book doesn't leave me feeling optimistic. And he'd still have to be among the main characters in future ARMS entries, and be more-liked than potential new favorites, too.

Rex. Like with Spring Man, I feel like getting Pyra and Mythra gives us about the same experience anyway. But we nevertheless didn't get Rex, and there will likely be new Xenoblade characters to choose from when the next Smash game comes along.

Decidueye: Sakurai made the controversial choice to go with Incineroar instead. Quite frankly, I agree with this choice, as an archer who can fly sounds similar to Pit, while we lacked a wrestler. Still, we didn't get Decidueye, and unless it gets in as CP11, this is the end of the road for it.

Gen 8 Pokemon: Same as Decidueye, it's CP11 or nothing for gen 8.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Toad; Could've easily been included .. any time? Captain Toad is also notably absent.
Dixie Kong; reasonably would've made it around Brawl, Smash 4 or even Ultimate. Her absense is a eyesore to me honestly.
Funky Kong; a good choice for a DK Echo, maybe with a better recovery, just for the sake of it
Impa; a clear case could've been made with Smash 4, it's DLC, and Ultimate.
Tetra; solid choice for Brawl
Midna; a likely contender for a Brawl newcomer, as the Twilight Princess designs stayed relevant for two games.
Skull Kid; either Melee, or Smash 4, a bit of an odd ball, but a solid choice still.
A Champion from Breath of the Wild; still a contender for the last DLC character I feel, but a very solid choice for a Ultimate base game newcomer still
Balloon Fighter; a honorary addition to Iwata, reasonable for Brawl, Smash 4 and Ultimate
Mach Rider; as above, minus the Iwata reasonings
Takamaru; as above, again
Pauline; Mario vs DK and Mario Oddysey are big titles, more reasonable for a newcomer than Piranha Plant therefore
Blaziken; a notable popular Hoenn Pokemon, Brawl would've been a good moment for inclusion
Isaac; even would've been a good addition since Melee I feel, and all games after. I still feel he might still got a chance for the last DLC character therefore.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

Balloon Fighter; a honorary addition to Iwata, reasonable for Brawl, Smash 4 and Ultimate
Mach Rider; as above, minus the Iwata reasonings

Iwata was part of the Mach Rider team too.

 

[Marvel-Otaku-Man]

Gosh, I'm not even the biggest Pokémon fan, but I feel like there was a gaggle of Pokémon that got passed over. Personally, I wish we'd gotten any grass starter besides Ivysaur.

 

[Perkilator]

Man, Echo status was so perfect for Shadow (Sonic) and Alph (Olimar).

 

[Deleted member]

Kind of hard to look at boomer tier DLC like Banjo or Terry and assume that there's some expiration date for a character to get into Smash but yeah, I'll bite.

Overall: I feel like if Sakurai is legit about not supporting this game anymore, the franchise has come to its end. There might be a platform fighter similar to Smash more in the vein of Mario Kart; with limited guest appearances outside of the Mario (or w/e franchise) universe, but look at this nearly 90 character intellectual property rights nightmare and tell me it hasn't reached its endpoint. Porting this game is outside of the realm of possibility for even the most talented legal teams and a hard reboot with similar mechanics just isn't going to live up to this. In that sense, every character out of the literally thousands who will not be the final DLC has missed their opportunity to be in Super Smash Bros.



Anyway, with that said:

Geno missed his opportunity probably in 64 or Melee. People will say Brawl because of Sakurai comments, but I think the fact that Peach came with her frying pan and nearly identical to SMRPG slap sound effects in Melee, that's when SMRPG's shelf life ended. Square being dickheads and Nintendo being hardasses about Mario characters doesn't help.

Isaac missed his opportunity in Brawl. That assist trophy was the end of the line for the boy and barring a remake, he and Golden Sun in general are lost to the ages.

Rayman missed his opportunity in Smash 4 if not Brawl. I prefer to say Smash 4 because the original Rayman trilogy was relatively niche and it wasn't until Origins/Legends that Ubisoft really tried to force Rayman into the public eye. Rabbids didn't do him any favors, though.

Crash missed it in Brawl. The franchise had just gone multi-plat in the second half of the Gamecube's life and if there was a time for him, it was there. The big renaissance of Crash lately is too little too late and Activision has been mired in controversy for a good few years now to the point that I don't think Nintendo would feel like he's good PR to even have around.

Spyro is mostly in the same boat as Crash. I think maybe more unfortunately for Spyro, Skylanders murdered his public perception.

Non-Latest Gen Pokemon unless your name is Pikachu your spot in Smash is 100% dependent on your generation having just released and your being a poster child of either the game or the associated movie. It's bull****.

Krystal it's actually hard to say where she fell off. I'd say that Smash 4 was the last call for that bus ride, seeing as how she proceeded to get written out of canon after its launch... but her assist trophy still adds an undeniable furry factor to Ultimate despite her exile to the vaporwave dimension. More realistically, though, she died in Brawl like just about everyone else.

Waddle Dee never stood a chance. I'm taking a low blow at a battered community here but I'll be generous and say that Smash 4 was the end of the line since they stopped adding Kirby characters after Brawl and Ultimate in its infinite glory couldn't muster anything for huge plot character Marx beyond obnoxious boss fight. Compared to someone like him, a character that we can't even prove is the same between games just... couldn't.

Master Chief also never stood a chance for reasons that my enumerating will cause a ****storm. I will once again be generous and say that if at any point between now and cutoff date for Fighter Pass 2, Halo in any form is announced for the Switch, he is 100% the last character and Master Chads can print this post and stick it on their fridge for their mom to complement.

Waluigi because I couldn't end the list on contention without ending it on huge contention, Waluigi lost his chance in Brawl as well. He's a joke to Nintendo, a joke to Sakurai, and as far as they can tell, a joke among fans. He's in the unfortunate situation of having only gained popularity as a result of memes and webcomics after Brawl's release and was really only lightly demanded in the buildup days of Brawl, though much of that may have been how early his assist trophy was revealed. Mix that with the massive amounts of Twitter toxicity of the fanbase and you've got an undrinkable cocktail of never getting into Smash juice.

... I think that just about covers all of the big fan requests from the glory days of this franchise and that aren't indies.

 

[fogbadge]

Non-Latest Gen Pokemon unless your name is Pikachu your spot in Smash is 100% dependent on your generation having just released and your being a poster child of either the game or the associated movie. It's bull****.

only 2 out of 10 had movies based on them

 

[subterrestrial]

waluigi, balloon fighter, takamaru, ayumi, decidueye etc

I’m also lowkey surprised digdug wasn’t added after namco worked on 2 installments

 

[Deleted member]

only 2 out of 10 had movies based on them

"poster child of either the game or the associated movie"

Sakurai claims that he picked Greninja because he looked cool, but given that after his inclusion in Smash 4 Greninja had this whole anime presence (that lead to a movie or some ****) it's fair to say that he was thoroughly "convinced" of how "cool" Greninja looks.

Just for you, I'll beat up my own argument. Pokemon Trainer evades all of these rules as the one and true legitimate Pokemon rep, whose gameplay in Smash is supposed to be emblematic of Pokemon's own gameplay. Brawl truly was composed divergent.

 

[fogbadge]

"poster child of either the game or the associated movie"

Sakurai claims that he picked Greninja because he looked cool, but given that after his inclusion in Smash 4 Greninja had this whole anime presence (that lead to a movie or some ****) it's fair to say that he was thoroughly "convinced" of how "cool" Greninja looks.

Just for you, I'll beat up my own argument. Pokemon Trainer evades all of these rules as the one and true legitimate Pokemon rep, whose gameplay in Smash is supposed to be emblematic of Pokemon's own gameplay. Brawl truly was composed divergent.

but that’s a colossal assumption based that holds no real water. Inceneroar had no such thing in the anime, his presence in the movies was far from what you would call a poster child and his time in the main series was brief as well. Jigglypuff was included as a clone as was pichu. There are far less Pokemon who may have gotten in due to the anime than there ones we know probably weren’t

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

Isaac; even would've been a good addition since Melee I feel, and all games after. I still feel he might still got a chance for the last DLC character therefore.

Subscribe.

Although I've seen people say he missed his chance in Brawl. While it's true, since Pikmin got its introduction in Brawl and was released in the same year as Golden Sun, I totally understand why Isaac got a Trophy slot in Brawl.

What I don't understand is how nothing got translated over to Smash 4. Little Mac got his his promotion but Golden Sun is nowhere to be found. My headcannon is that Shulk took the spot Isaac could've had, because he had the bright new RPG, and Dark Dawn didn't perform that well. FE Awakening also had its breakthough at this time.

Then Ultimate, ugh, the lead up to November 2018 was crazy, only for us to get utterly crushed. I can only justify this one because they couldn't add too many newcomers for base, especially those that would require a whole new stage, but beyond that, idk what they were thinking with the Assist. Misjudged the demand perhaps.

 

[Blackwolf666]

I won't be saying at what point they missed the train. Just going to list fighters that i think would have been excellent editions but lost a ton of relevance and would be weird picks if they choose to put them in now. (characters like Meowth and Tails are still prominent in their respective series so they wouldn't feel awkward to place in smash at this point IMO)

Isaac
Lyn
Blaziken
Deoxys
Conker
Krystal
Elma
Vaati
Midna
Tetra
Mach Rider

 

[Perkilator]

I also think another Capcom character (like, for example, Phoenix Wirght) might've missed the train a while ago.

 

[Butters Stotch]

Dixie and Toad feel like Nintendo's biggest absences.
I think if Peach's moveset were made differently, Toad would definitely have been a newcomer in Melee or Brawl.

Banjo probably would have been in the series a lot earlier and we'd probably have Gruntilda or Mumbo by now if Rare stayed with Nintendo.

If they ever add Toad, they could keep Peach's neutral special, but have her use Toadsworth instead.

And yeah, it's too bad Rare was bought out by Microsoft. Had they stayed with Nintendo, I imagine we'd have at least three reps for the company (not sure if all of them would be from Banjo-Kazooie).

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

My list:
Smash 64: Bowser, because he was meant to be in Smash, but due to technical difficulties in Hardware, he was cut and didn't appear I smash 64 until Melee. Darn, I wish Bowser should be included as Character in Smash 64 in Smash Bros. Allstars Collection.

Melee: ExciteBiker, he was meant to be Playable but Ice Climber pushed him off the Table of Potential Fighter due to Jumping Issue (Thats not a Issue, Sakurai just had no idea how Excitebike would work and that's why).

Brawl: Geno, he was most requested character in Smash and Sakurai didn't had a time to make him as Fighter, but he was Mii Costume in SSB4 and SSBU.

SSB4: Ice Climbers and Wolf:
Ice Climbers: When Sakurai considered them, he had a Issue that They would break the Hardware limitations of 3DS. Speaking of Wii U, Sakurai didn't want them to be exclusive on SSB Wii U.

Wolf: He wasn't that Popular during Brawl and he cut him from SSB4 roster.

SSBU: Waluigi, 1st Party Retro Rep and Dante:
Waluigi: Waluigi was Reqested character to Smash, but Sakurai turned him into Assist again, causing breakdown among fans and Fans started to beg for Waluigi for Smash. Well, maybe he's not gonna join smash RN, but he will join Smash 6.

1st Party Retro rep: I expected to see Retro Rep in Smash, but Sakurai presumably cut them due to Running out of Ideas what NES rep would join smash and he possibly cut them out of Roster, leaving them as Spirits. (Gosh, why Sakurai needed to break the Retro Character newcomer pattern with a Plant, I don't really understand what Sakurai has in Mind, maybe he has only Crazy Ideas for Characters).

Dante: Dante was also very requested Character in Smash, but Sakurai cut him and made him as Mii Costume due to his M+ Rated franchise where Dante comes from and Sakurai wants to Keep Smash Kid Friendly.

 

[Butters Stotch]

I'm honestly surprised we didn't get a Gen 5 rep in Smash 4. Black and White received sequels just before planning and there were several Pokémon to choose from. At least Gen 3 was close to getting Plusle and Minun in Brawl.

 

[Mr. Stevenson]

If they ever add Toad, they could keep Peach's neutral special, but have her use Toadsworth instead.

And yeah, it's too bad Rare was bought out by Microsoft. Had they stayed with Nintendo, I imagine we'd have at least three reps for the company (not sure if all of them would be from Banjo-Kazooie).

I’d say Conker and (obviously) Banjo would be a given.
Perhaps Fulgore or Joanna Dark would eventually be added too either by having their series consistently relevant or with the aid of fan demand.

 

[Butters Stotch]

I’d say Conker and Banjo would be a given.
Perhaps Fulgore or Joanna Dark would eventually be added too either by having their series still relevant or with the aid of fan demand.

The only problem having with Conker is that Nintendo didn't embrace mature games until the Wii U era, so he probably wouldn't make it in until Ultimate. Still, I think Joanna would be an obvious pick for Brawl, given how well Perfect Dark was received. I'm pretty sure it was in Metacritic's top 10 highest rated games list around that time.

 

[Mr. Stevenson]

The only problem having with Conker is that Nintendo didn't embrace mature games until the Wii U era, so he probably wouldn't make it in until Ultimate. Still, I think Joanna would be an obvious pick for Brawl, given how well Perfect Dark was received. I'm pretty sure it was in Metacritic's top 10 highest rated games list around that time.

That’s not really true, Nintendo really supported both Perfect Dark and specially Conker’s Bad Fur Day back in the day. Hell at E3 2000 they even opened a separate booth full of zany Conker merch just to advertise the game.

They also published Eternal Darkness in 2002 (an M-rated horror game) and didn’t seem to have any issue with that action whatsoever.

 

[Butters Stotch]

That’s not really true, Nintendo really supported both Perfect Dark and specially Conker’s Bad Fur Day back in the day. Hell at E3 2000 they even opened a separate booth full of zany Conker merch just to advertise the game.

They also published Eternal Darkness in 2002 (an M-rated horror game) and didn’t seem to have any issue with that action whatsoever.

Sorry about the misconception. I could've sworn they were against them at one point, but that could be choked up to poor memory.

 

[Mr. Stevenson]

Sorry about the misconception. I could've sworn they were against them at one point, but that could be choked up to poor memory.

No problem. They actually kinda were during the SNES era, which is why this exists:

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Any Pokemon from previous generations, notably Gen 3 and 5 which never got a rep.
Dixie Kong after K. Rool's inclusion and her getting cut from Brawl.
Waluigi and basically any other Mario character, after Piranha Plant it seems that they dig everything they could for this series.
Rex due to the technical issues his inclusion would have brought (I'm sure if it was limited to four players instead of eight we could have seen him).
Any other ARMS character.
Any previous Fire Emblem characters, just like Pokemon.
Any Zelda character, but that's because Sakurai is not willing to add anyone else from Zelda that's not Link, Zelda or Ganondorf.
Yep. Huge list.

 

[fogbadge]

My list:
Smash 64: Bowser, because he was meant to be in Smash, but due to technical difficulties in Hardware, he was cut and didn't appear I smash 64 until Melee. Darn, I wish Bowser should be included as Character in Smash 64 in Smash Bros. Allstars Collection.


Brawl: Geno, he was most requested character in Smash and Sakurai didn't had a time to make him as Fighter, but he was Mii Costume in SSB4 and SSBU.

SSB4: Ice Climbers and Wolf:
Ice Climbers: When Sakurai considered them, he had a Issue that They would break the Hardware limitations of 3DS. Speaking of Wii U, Sakurai didn't want them to be exclusive on SSB Wii U.

ok by missed the boat they mean characters who you think missed their chance to get as in characters they arent getting in. so characters whove since been added and characters who were cut dont count. also geno was not the most request character in the brawl days. that was sonic

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

I actually also think that there were tons of characters that could have worked really well as base-roster characters for Ultimate, but the limited number of newcomers, well... sort of limited that. Whilst I'm happy with who we got - after all, Simon, K. Rool and Ridley were massive fan picks, Inkling was one of Smash's only ever actual "shoo-ins" and then Isabelle and Incineroar made sense as "recent promotions" of sorts. Echoes I sort of see as generally pretty logical anyways, so Daisy, Dark Samus and Chrom were fair to be honest. Ken specifically just made a lot of sense.

For instance, a character from ARMS could have worked well as base-roster, really (after all, it's not like it's the first time Nintendo would promote a game with a character, looking at Roy here) and potentially other characters from late Wii U games and early Switch titles. Good examples of these are Astral Chain, the Wonderful 101, Captain Toad, or remakes like Wind Waker HD and the like. Even looking at later Wii games, there's potential.

The same sort of applies to DS games in Sm4sh, because there was a lot of potential. I'd probably say series like Scribblenauts, WarioWare, Rhythm Heaven, Advance Wars and even Chrono Trigger sort of... lost their chances after not making it into Sm4sh. Sure, Scribblenauts existed after the DS iterations, but was nowhere near as popular as it used to be - WarioWare did originate before then, but the DS felt like the era when it was at its height, and even with Advance Wars getting some love now, it's at the wrong time given the period of Smash Ultimate we're in now, being the late stages. Chrono Trigger is a little less related, but given the surprising success of the DS remake, I feel it's a logical pick too.

Even going as far back as Brawl, Issac would have been a pretty logical pick, as well as less popular characters such as Kamek due to the recent resurgence of the Yoshi's Island series and the like.

Overall, good examples are, well, basically any side/single notable appearance character from a Zelda game in history, such as Midna, Skull Kid and Ghirahim are pretty much dead in the water, and soon enough the Champions will probably be in the same predicament. Basically any Pokemon from a previous generation that aren't in Smash now are nearly impossible to get in over a newer pick, so characters like Deoxys who might work incredibly well are, well... incredibly unlikely, now. Hope you enjoy Sirfetched. Basically any Fire Emblem character except those of the most recent game, or possibly Lyn, are at best wishful thinking. Hell, even the Mario series seems unlikely to get too many newcomers after Pirahna Plant.

My last point here is basically any "retro rep." Specifically, 1st parties. As hard as it is to say, who cares about Excitebike Rider, or Takamaru, or Sukapon, when they could have characters like Ryu Hayabusa, or Bill Rizer, or Jason and SOPHIA, and an endless list of 3rd parties? After Sm4sh, most of these 1st party retro reps are... somewhat pointless, in the grand scheme of things. Sure, if Smash were to return to just 1st party one day, they'd be possible, but I see it as unlikely - characters like Duck Hunt Duo were added because the game was so wildly popular, and most other 1st party retro titles aside from perhaps Excitebike don't have that modern recognition or sales numbers... hence why, as much as it pains me to say it, series like Joy Mech Fight will probably never get their chance to be playable.

 

[Butters Stotch]

Even going as far back as Brawl, Issac would have been a pretty logical pick, as well as less popular characters such as Kamek due to the recent resurgence of the Yoshi's Island series and the like.

The Yoshi series has gotten games in the 2010s and Kamek is a major character in the Mario series, but sadly, I can't see him being added anytime soon.

 

[kiteinthesky]

My main man Geno. Poor starboi just can't catch a break.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

The Yoshi series has gotten games in the 2010s and Kamek is a major character in the Mario series, but sadly, I can't see him being added anytime soon.

This is the sort of thing I mean when I say Kamek is in a weird state at the moment. He'd have made most sense to be added during the Wii era, given his relatively high number of appearances, and before then wouldn't have been logical given the Mario newcomers were, well, Bowser and Peach. Thing is, though, by Sm4sh, I feel like Kamek to be honest wasn't as popular as, say, Rosalina, so I see why she was added given her recent appearances. Bowser JR, also, was pretty logical as a more "modern" Mario rep. Kamek, though? Whilst he was still getting games and was still "major," there were other characters better known than him, and perhaps more problematically, more requested. Sakurai's inbox was probably flooded with "GIVE US PURPLE MAN."

Smash Ultimate, given a limited number of newcomers, it would have made sense to even add Kamek at all, and as a DLC pick, compared to who we do have, I don't think he makes sense. It's a weird situation, because he's been "relevant" all along, but just isn't relevant enough - and yes, I actually think Plant was a pretty good choice as a pre-order bonus, as opposed to say Kamek.

 

[fogbadge]

I actually also think that there were tons of characters that could have worked really well as base-roster characters for Ultimate, but the limited number of newcomers, well... sort of limited that. Whilst I'm happy with who we got - after all, Simon, K. Rool and Ridley were massive fan picks, Inkling was one of Smash's only ever actual "shoo-ins" and then Isabelle and Incineroar made sense as "recent promotions" of sorts. Echoes I sort of see as generally pretty logical anyways, so Daisy, Dark Samus and Chrom were fair to be honest. Ken specifically just made a lot of sense.

For instance, a character from ARMS could have worked well as base-roster, really (after all, it's not like it's the first time Nintendo would promote a game with a character, looking at Roy here) and potentially other characters from late Wii U games and early Switch titles. Good examples of these are Astral Chain, the Wonderful 101, Captain Toad, or remakes like Wind Waker HD and the like. Even looking at later Wii games, there's potential.

The same sort of applies to DS games in Sm4sh, because there was a lot of potential. I'd probably say series like Scribblenauts, WarioWare, Rhythm Heaven, Advance Wars and even Chrono Trigger sort of... lost their chances after not making it into Sm4sh. Sure, Scribblenauts existed after the DS iterations, but was nowhere near as popular as it used to be - WarioWare did originate before then, but the DS felt like the era when it was at its height, and even with Advance Wars getting some love now, it's at the wrong time given the period of Smash Ultimate we're in now, being the late stages. Chrono Trigger is a little less related, but given the surprising success of the DS remake, I feel it's a logical pick too.

Even going as far back as Brawl, Issac would have been a pretty logical pick, as well as less popular characters such as Kamek due to the recent resurgence of the Yoshi's Island series and the like.

Overall, good examples are, well, basically any side/single notable appearance character from a Zelda game in history, such as Midna, Skull Kid and Ghirahim are pretty much dead in the water, and soon enough the Champions will probably be in the same predicament. Basically any Pokemon from a previous generation that aren't in Smash now are nearly impossible to get in over a newer pick, so characters like Deoxys who might work incredibly well are, well... incredibly unlikely, now. Hope you enjoy Sirfetched. Basically any Fire Emblem character except those of the most recent game, or possibly Lyn, are at best wishful thinking. Hell, even the Mario series seems unlikely to get too many newcomers after Pirahna Plant.

My last point here is basically any "retro rep." Specifically, 1st parties. As hard as it is to say, who cares about Excitebike Rider, or Takamaru, or Sukapon, when they could have characters like Ryu Hayabusa, or Bill Rizer, or Jason and SOPHIA, and an endless list of 3rd parties? After Sm4sh, most of these 1st party retro reps are... somewhat pointless, in the grand scheme of things. Sure, if Smash were to return to just 1st party one day, they'd be possible, but I see it as unlikely - characters like Duck Hunt Duo were added because the game was so wildly popular, and most other 1st party retro titles aside from perhaps Excitebike don't have that modern recognition or sales numbers... hence why, as much as it pains me to say it, series like Joy Mech Fight will probably never get their chance to be playable.

isabelle is popular as well. Her inclusion was not promotional

 

[Butters Stotch]

This is the sort of thing I mean when I say Kamek is in a weird state at the moment. He'd have made most sense to be added during the Wii era, given his relatively high number of appearances, and before then wouldn't have been logical given the Mario newcomers were, well, Bowser and Peach. Thing is, though, by Sm4sh, I feel like Kamek to be honest wasn't as popular as, say, Rosalina, so I see why she was added given her recent appearances. Bowser JR, also, was pretty logical as a more "modern" Mario rep. Kamek, though? Whilst he was still getting games and was still "major," there were other characters better known than him, and perhaps more problematically, more requested. Sakurai's inbox was probably flooded with "GIVE US PURPLE MAN."

Smash Ultimate, given a limited number of newcomers, it would have made sense to even add Kamek at all, and as a DLC pick, compared to who we do have, I don't think he makes sense. It's a weird situation, because he's been "relevant" all along, but just isn't relevant enough - and yes, I actually think Plant was a pretty good choice as a pre-order bonus, as opposed to say Kamek.

Yeah, Brawl was probably the best chance he had at getting in.

 

[LAA9000]

A year ago I would've said Octoling - they'd make the most sense as an Echo, meaning their best opportunity would've been in Ultimate's base game because Echo Fighter DLC is all but disconfirmed. However, I've since looked at all the Splatoon weapons that doesn't use in Smash and realised there's enough variety to give Octoling their own unique moveset, making them eligible for DLC. In fact, with Nintendo showing no hesitation to use their recent characters in Fighters Pass vol. 2, I'd even say they're a likely contender for Challenger Pack 11.

Besides that, there's the obvious characters from now-dormant series or characters not from the latest games in series with rotating casts (i.e. Zelda, Pokémon and Fire Emblem), who all missed their chances back when their games were relevant ( did help alleviate this, but he was an Echo). I even believe Pokémon Sword/Shield have missed their best chance, that being from Challenger Packs 6-8.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

It seems like a lot of first-party characters sort of missed the boat as soon as 3rd party picks started becoming popular, huh...