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Character Win:Loss Ratios (READ, its theory atm)

SuSa

SuSa

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I was having an idea recently.. why don't we have a thread that is dedicated to x char vs y char win/losses based on tournament data?

The thought struck me as having a few 'glitches' in the system, and it may be entirely useless. But I want to take the communities thoughts on this before starting.

1) Tournament must have at least 30 participants
2) Only the Semi-Finals, Finals, and w/e you call the round before Semi-Finals would count. (this makes it the higher levels of play... normally...I feel....<_< maybe only 25 participants?)
3) Needs bracket + tournament thread as proof of tournament happening.
4) Video is optional, but not needed. We're going off the result. All we need is who used which character.
5) Counterpicks - If a person switched characters during the match (which is likely to happen) then it obviously counts for that matchup. This is where having video is going to help.
6) When reporting - please report the entire set so that records aren't.. messed with. (EG: If someone goes 2-1 don't just report the 2 wins)

More in depth for #2:
Ankoku said:
MATCH RESOLUTION
1st: Grand Finals
2nd: Grand Finals
3rd: Losers' Finals, Winners' Finals
4th: Losers' Semifinals
5th: Losers' Quarterfinals, Winners' Semifinals
7th: Losers' Top 8, Winners' Quarterfinals
Click to expand...
It'd be a huge project - some characters would obviously have a lot more data then others. Making their ratios more realistic. (EG: MK would have a lot of ratios, and a lot of matches total for those ratios then Ganon)

Ideas? Ways to fix problems in the system? Like? Dislike? Stupid idea?

If it is like, I will begin editing this OP to have the structure needed for the thread.

EXAMPLE:

Bad formatting:
Meta Knight vs Snake
Tournament 1: Meta Knight beat Snake 2-1
Tournament 2: Meta Knight lost to Snake 2-0
Meta Knight vs Snake: 2-3
40%: 60%
 
TP

TP

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Problem: there have been tourney sets where I only used Ganon on my CP stage, and I won with him. Would that count toward Ganon being better? The tourney set in question happened to be in a 30+ tourney and in the round before semis.
 
SuSa

SuSa

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I still answered you. It does not make Ganon better, it makes him have a better Win:Loss ratio, but because you had to lose the first round to be able to CP - that just makes it 1:1....
 
Zankoku

Zankoku

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MATCH RESOLUTION
1st: Grand Finals
2nd: Grand Finals
3rd: Losers' Finals, Winners' Finals
4th: Losers' Semifinals
5th: Losers' Quarterfinals, Winners' Semifinals
7th: Losers' Top 8, Winners' Quarterfinals

Hope this helps.
 
nevershootme

nevershootme

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you do know... stages do play a major factor in the character performance and it does impact... this isn't theory, the japanese have done this countless times for other fighting games.

the way the japanese do it is by having the best of their characters come play sets with one another.
 
SuSa

SuSa

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Ankoku said:
MATCH RESOLUTION
1st: Grand Finals
2nd: Grand Finals
3rd: Losers' Finals, Winners' Finals
4th: Losers' Semifinals
5th: Losers' Quarterfinals, Winners' Semifinals
7th: Losers' Top 8, Winners' Quarterfinals

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

lol names still confuse me but that makes sense. :laugh: thank you.

@Nevershootme
Yes, and unless we ban every single stage but one.......

Matchup ratios are complete theory, this is all tournament data that is simply compiled for win/loss ratio with some instances to try to make it so its the higher end up the gameplay (30+ particpants + only top 8)

Even on neutrals, stage choice makes a difference. So playing every match on one stage is unrealistic because it can sway the favor to one character. (EG: Is FD more neutral then BF?) Also who is to say who is the best player for each main?
 
TP

TP

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SuSa said:
I still answered you. It does not make Ganon better, it makes him have a better Win:Loss ratio, but because you had to lose the first round to be able to CP - that just makes it 1:1....
Click to expand...
No, because when I lost, I wasn't using Ganon. Ganon went 1-0 in that set, only showing up on my CP.

(For the record, I woulda started with Ganon but my opponent was an ICs main. :urg:)
 
SuSa

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Twilight Prince said:
No, because when I lost, I wasn't using Ganon. Ganon went 1-0 in that set, only showing up on my CP.

(For the record, I woulda started with Ganon but my opponent was an ICs main. :urg:)
Click to expand...
100:0 matchup FTML. amirite?

Ok, then that is still a win for Ganon because he won. It's also a loss for the other character you were using in the first match.

I'm going to edit the OP with a set rule... brb
 
daisho

daisho

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But... most of that data isn't available right now... You would have to start collecting new data and also TOs would have alot more work to write stuff down...

In theory this is a great idea, but the amount of work that would have to be put in by TOs around the country just makes it not worth it imo.
 
ndayday

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JayDeth said:
This seems extremely similar to this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233428
Click to expand...
Ha, yeah...I was going to say the same thing. Anyway, I'll say what I said in that thread; I think it's a good idea and all, but the only problem would be getting people to actually submit stuff, and have the submissions vary, meaning you can't just have results from say, SoCal, you have to have stuff from the Midwest, the East Cost, etc.

It'd be cool and interesting, but I would ask the guy in the previously posted thread if it's okay, it'd suck to have an idea like that stolen from you.
 
Vorguen

Vorguen

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This is simply to see an approximate win/loss ratio on character vs character.

If you think abouut it, Snake usually always loses to an equally skilled person on the counterpick, while that person has a good chance on your neutral and counterpick usually as well.


For example.

Meta Knight?

Good on neutrals, good on your counterpick, great on his counterpick.

Snake.

Good on neutrals, terrible on MK's counterpick, great on your counterpick.


So you'll go

"theoretically"

1- even
2- in his advantage
3- even


Usually.

Snake doesn't have any stages where he gets a huge advantage. There are a couple of low ceiling stages, but even those aren't terrible for other characters.


As much as I have grinded and made Rainbow Cruise and Norfair playable for Snake, I still absolutely suck at Brinstar.

So yeah, I ban Brinstar, but that doesn't change the fact that Norfair and Rainbow are ridiculously uphill when fighting Meta Knight... DDD... Wario... and a hundred other characters.

Typically, against players of equal skill, I find myself needing to win the first round. It seems with Snake that is key, if you don't use secondaries like me.
 
SuSa

SuSa

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JayDeth said:
This seems extremely similar to this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233428
Click to expand...
"Right now, we're only looking at data from the midwest,"

I'm looking everywhere. Also I've never seen that thread. :laugh: Good to know someone beat me to the thought.

Last updated May 27th, about 2 weeks ago. I don't know how often he said he'd update. But that seems like he stopped caring or the community stopped caring.
 
T

Tien2500

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It'd be a massive amount of work but it'd be interesting. Good luck to you if you do this.
 
feardragon64

feardragon64

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I like this idea. I'll keep an eye on this thread.

Are you doing this for whole matches or each individual game? Just curious.
 
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