Character Idea Submission Thread

[drsusredfish]

thats why i wonder if an if statement is possible cause somthing as simple as

If player1,player2,player3,player4 == fox

replace these stock icon codes with these head icon register codes.

might work

 

[shinhed-echi]

Glad to see some of you like my ideas, though I do realise one of the main points of P:M is, regarding the veteran characters, to make them play as they did before (or at least as they performed best in the past).
But I see other good ideas for Samus here as well. Shooting at angles would be a nice touch. Not to mention running/backtracking while shooting.

I just want her to be more awesome, that is all.

And I feel PMBR is leaving the best for last by not having her playable yet. :D
Can't wait for those proximity-morphball-bombs!

 

[Eaode]

for the angles on Samus' missiles and charge shot, you could just hold be to hold the shot and aim it. For charge shot this keeps her in the charge animation until she releases at the desired angle. For missiles this keeps her in a missile animation (maybe if charged enough could be a super missile? super missiles wouldn't be storable, of course.)

 

[roymaster803]

So I thought of this just now. It's not for a specific character but it could influence some of the last few. So characters like Link and Pit have 2stage smash attacks. Meaning they strike once (stage 1) and then again if commanded (stage 2) So why not give this property to an aerial attack? Instead of the move automatically striking twice why not have an aerial move that you can choose between hitting once or hitting twice? It would give the move some safety while still being risky by taking longer to perform. hit once and it's just a poke or bait, let them come in after it and you can strike again when you choose. It would be interesting in that no one has had this before, it would provide excellent mind games, and be a useful tool against shields. Of course the move would probably need a small hitbox so that it isn't too safe. Tell me what you guys think about this.

 

[himemiya]

Someone fill me in as to why we're only discussing samus at this moment?

 

[Vukasa]

Since characters such as Link have call backs to their most previous incarnations on consoles, and project M wanted Wario to be more Wario Land flavored than Wario Ware, I was thinking that he could have a shake animation from Wario Land Shake It on the Wii. Maybe when hes grabbing someone he shakes them down for coins, instead instead of poking their ribs. Any thoughts on bringing the shake to Wario?

 

[Kink-Link5]

I just want Wario to have his piledriver U-throw instead of whatever he has now, and his D-throw made into what his U-throw is now basically, but with a lower release point obviously.

 

[roymaster803]

Really? No comments on my idea?

 

[Kink-Link5]

I can't think of any aerial that could be done for or for any particular reason.

I'm not really sure why Pit has it to begin with.

 

[roymaster803]

I think MK would be interesting with this mechanic.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I don't think it would work now that I think about it for two minutes.

Grounded smashes or tilts with two parts work out just fine because, they always move the same amount, every time, when they do that attack, so you have the one that's quicker to end for whiffs, and the two hits once you confirm.

But with aerials, especially concerning like, Metaknight, you have control over your movement while having access to this unpredictable multihitting move. You literally can never know if you're safe or not since they could just delay the input or cut it off half way or all sorts of things.

 

[Greenpoe]

I don't think it would work now that I think about it for two minutes.

Grounded smashes or tilts with two parts work out just fine because, they always move the same amount, every time, when they do that attack, so you have the one that's quicker to end for whiffs, and the two hits once you confirm.

But with aerials, especially concerning like, Metaknight, you have control over your movement while having access to this unpredictable multihitting move. You literally can never know if you're safe or not since they could just delay the input or cut it off half way or all sorts of things.

Yeah but this would all get balanced by the window for which you can hit A to continue the move & end lag/mid-move-cancel lag. There's pros and cons to the idea at any rate. On one hand, it gives the attacker more options, but does not force him to commit and gives a very easy way to continue the damage, but then again, this is already done through those 3-hit jabs.

 

[kynos]

What about adding Paper Mario as his own character. His A attack would be a jab, weak hammer then stronger hammer, his smashes would be power hammer and his party members from the first two games. His specials would revolve around his Special Moves from the first two (his B might be elder star would appear where he pressed the B button and heal anyone underneath in a small area for some time, his side B would be a star at an angle from above him, down B would be Earth Tremor and upB would be tornado jump or something. Mimic the star power mechanic for Bs possibly. Maybe his nAir would jump on people and possibly meteor smash if you land it. And his attacks would have a different effect if you do a specified input as you hit akin to the Action Command system in the games. Like his fSmash w/o action command would deal moderate knockback for comboing but w/ action command it would be a launch, or something.

Thoughts?

 

[Banjodorf]

If we're still talking about Samus, I want to second the beam-switching ability and suggest the PMBR really consider that one. It's amazing!

 

[Jandlebars]

Yeah but this would all get balanced by the window for which you can hit A to continue the move & end lag/mid-move-cancel lag. There's pros and cons to the idea at any rate. On one hand, it gives the attacker more options, but does not force him to commit and gives a very easy way to continue the damage, but then again, this is already done through those 3-hit jabs.

The fact that a character wouldn't have to commit as much as they would with a standard 'single-stage' move is a pretty massive advantage, especially if the actual start-up of the move is quite short. If someone like MK were to receive something like that, he'd need to either be really light to accommodate, so that getting hit is even more punishable (just as a suggestion, anyway).
I wouldn't mind the idea of MK having delayed moves with an extra attack at the end of them, though. Something like Wario's F-Tilt that can be held and then released, but with an additional attack that does greater damage or knockback.

 

[Jandlebars]

If we're still talking about Samus, I want to second the beam-switching ability and suggest the PMBR really consider that one. It's amazing!

I'd like for it, too, but the idea of using a Taunt Button to swap between them just feels...off to me. It seems sound from a mechanical perspective, though, but it's a fairly significant change to her moveset if implemented, and there'd be a lot of fine-tuning to make sure it'd actually be balanced.

EDIT: Apologies for double post.

 

[RaynEX]

I feel like two Nintendo franchises we could tap into are Golden Sun and Custom Robo. Adding Isaac or Ray MK II would be cool.

 

[Banjodorf]

Oh, also, if it has yet to be suggested, I've been thinking about Yoshi alot lately.

I feel like some significant changes need to be made to his moveset, in order to make him more competitive.

I'm not really able to get into complex numbers, but even in Melee, with Yoshi's powerful down-smash, he was lacking in so many areas.

I feel like one of these has always been his abysmal up-B. I really think he should have something like the wings from his Final Smash appear, and give him a working up-B with better lift and height, or something.

His neutral-B could maybe just do damage, rather than putting someone in an egg. Maybe give it a bit of knockback.

Spoiler

I was thinking maybe it could put them in an unbreakable egg, but that's WAY too easily abusable on ledges.

I think the egg throw should still stay, as a side-B, and have the current side-B become part of a taunt, where maybe he rolls back and forth in an egg and breaks out...or something.

And I'm not sure if it's feasible to add colors, but black/white Yoshi are a must.

Edit: @Jandles: Yeah, the taunt-switching would be pretty detrimental to the player, and confusing. Maybe something akin to what they did with Lucario? Press A+B at once? That seems workable. That could switch beams without any problem for either player.

 

[The_NZA]

why is everyone opposed to the taunting to change beams? It's not like a+b is any more intuitive to people who've never picked up project m before. There's no precedent to use those buttons together except to steal a stock in 2v2s. I feel the "confusing" concern is not really a valid one considering there are plenty of confusing things in the game already that one needs to have read about in order to have access to.

 

[Banjodorf]

It's more a matter of taunting takes time, sort of akin to PT switching Pokemon in vBrawl. I just feel like pressing A+B to do it on the fly works better.

And for reference, I don't really like transformations, either.

 

[JOE!]

You know, I just had a thought:

Samus currently uses Power Beam (Nspec) and Plasma Beam (Dtilt, Fair, Usmash). What if she could swap for either at any given time?

Power Beam Nspec -or- Ice Beam Nspec: Ice Beam is slower but can freeze

Plasma Beam -or- Wave Beam: Wave Beam gives electrical effects and lingers for a while, but is weaker KB-wise.

just food for thought, as you then get to swap two "areas' of her set at a time.

 

[kynos]

IMO it's more ease of use for switching. It takes less time and feels more natural to A+B rather than move to the D-Pad.

 

[thespymachine]

I think Beam changing is a great idea.

 

[JOE!]

while a cool idea, what would it add to samus' game that she needs over other changes?

 

[kynos]

I'd argue first that it hasn't been done in vBrawl or Melee when it's a cool concept from that gen. And since ZSS is focused on speed and using a moderate ranged whip, Samus should focus more on projectiles and a combo game around her beams.

@gannondorf4ever: how fast were you thinking the swapping happen?

 

[Banjodorf]

Honestly I was thinking it would just change her neutral B, I could also see u-Smash or d-tilt, but that might be a bit excessive.

As far as speed I was thinking maybe the switch itself would take maybe half a second, or a full second, because anything beyond that seems more like a detriment. Maybe it's unrealistic, or I'm not considering something, but hmm...

And as someone who always found Samus lacking...something, I feel like that would add some variety, on top of possible buffs.

 

[kynos]

Honestly I was thinking it would just change her neutral B, I could also see u-Smash or d-tilt, but that might be a bit excessive.

I would say definitely change uSmash and maybe dTilt. Like dTilt to ice-uSmash and if they're high enough % it would freeze and they would drop setting them up for a charged power beam or something.

Maybe nerf her upB and give her a third jump (space jump boots).

 

[SunJester]

I personally don't think Samus needs something as drastic as "different beams." I think being able to make her missiles stagger (IE: Harder to get through) and being able to charge her beam in the air would help her.

Plus if they give her a usable Up-Smash maybe give her more KB on her forward smash, and make her able to link a couple of her moves better, I think she'd do quite fine.

I don't think her character design is inherently flawed, I think she just needs buffs in certain areas, like Mario. Yoshi on the other hand needs....something.

Edit: Though different beams would be kind of neat, its really not a bad idea at all...just perhaps unneeded.

 

[kynos]

Well, you could give her more flashy, unique attacks by giving each smash a different beam and maybe some tilts. still having certain effect of that beam.

 

[Vashimus]

Maybe nerf her upB and give her a third jump (space jump boots).

Hell no. Without Up-B OoS, Samus doesn't even stand a chance against spacies, as well as any other character with good shield pressure.

I'm personally against completely changing a move that players use with the character frequently. Down tilt is one of them. Well, all of her tilts in general. Yeah, they changed Pikachu's bair, but seriously, who actually misses the old bair?

Up Smash, I would like to be changed but if it was left as is, I guess I could deal with it. It's not like I use it anyway.

 

[Spiffykins]

Hell no. Without Up-B OoS, Samus doesn't even stand a chance against spacies, as well as any other character with good shield pressure.

I'm personally against completely changing a move that players use with the character frequently. Down tilt is one of them. Well, all of her tilts in general. Yeah, they changed Pikachu's bair, but seriously, who actually misses the old bair?

Up Smash, I would like to be changed but if it was left as is, I guess I could deal with it. It's not like I use it anyway.

I agree. Samus is in that range in the Melee tier list where there's a lot about her that's good already, much like Link and Pikachu. Neither of those characters received such drastic changes, and I don't think Samus should either. The best thing is to buff some the more glaring weaknesses in her design while keeping what was already good intact, and I'm sure that's exactly what the PMBR intends to do.

 

[Kink-Link5]

The fact that a character wouldn't have to commit as much as they would with a standard 'single-stage' move is a pretty massive advantage, especially if the actual start-up of the move is quite short. If someone like MK were to receive something like that, he'd need to either be really light to accommodate, so that getting hit is even more punishable (just as a suggestion, anyway).
I wouldn't mind the idea of MK having delayed moves with an extra attack at the end of them, though. Something like Wario's F-Tilt that can be held and then released, but with an additional attack that does greater damage or knockback.

How would being light accommodate for being stupid and potentially game breaking through ridiculously non-committed actions?

"Spacies die in one combo therefore balanced"

 

[Jandlebars]

I personally don't think Samus needs something as drastic as "different beams." I think being able to make her missiles stagger (IE: Harder to get through) and being able to charge her beam in the air would help her.

Plus if they give her a usable Up-Smash maybe give her more KB on her forward smash, and make her able to link a couple of her moves better, I think she'd do quite fine.

I don't think her character design is inherently flawed, I think she just needs buffs in certain areas, like Mario. Yoshi on the other hand needs....something.

Edit: Though different beams would be kind of neat, its really not a bad idea at all...just perhaps unneeded.

I agree that a Beam-change system isn't something she actually needs (I'm also of the opinion that some buffs to her overall, and maybe altering how some of her moves work is most likely enough). The potential it might have on how people play her, though, could give her a larger variety of options, which is a pretty powerful thing itself.
It wouldn't upset me or anything if she never received something quite that drastic, but I definitely it would make things more interesting.

Oh, also, if it has yet to be suggested, I've been thinking about Yoshi alot lately.

I feel like some significant changes need to be made to his moveset, in order to make him more competitive.

I'm not really able to get into complex numbers, but even in Melee, with Yoshi's powerful down-smash, he was lacking in so many areas.

I feel like one of these has always been his abysmal up-B. I really think he should have something like the wings from his Final Smash appear, and give him a working up-B with better lift and height, or something.

His neutral-B could maybe just do damage, rather than putting someone in an egg. Maybe give it a bit of knockback.

Spoiler

I was thinking maybe it could put them in an unbreakable egg, but that's WAY too easily abusable on ledges.

I think the egg throw should still stay, as a side-B, and have the current side-B become part of a taunt, where maybe he rolls back and forth in an egg and breaks out...or something.

And I'm not sure if it's feasible to add colors, but black/white Yoshi are a must.

Edit: @Jandles: Yeah, the taunt-switching would be pretty detrimental to the player, and confusing. Maybe something akin to what they did with Lucario? Press A+B at once? That seems workable. That could switch beams without any problem for either player.

I was kind of surprised that I hadn't seen greater changes to how Yoshi recovers. I'm aware that others have acknowledged it, of course, but unless he got some awesome new way to use Egg Roll when he was off the stage, then his Up B needs to work quite differently for him to stand a chance. Heck, people still think G&W's recovery is lackluster when the rest of him is taken into account. As much as I stay away from playing as Yoshi seriously, I'd hate for the same thing to happen to him.

I don't mind the idea of switching between Beams with A+B. Seems like it would feel a little more comfortable, since you're not really stretching any fingers to press another button so close to the one you'd be pressing anyway.

 

[Jandlebars]

How would being light accommodate for being stupid and potentially game breaking through ridiculously non-committed actions?

"Spacies die in one combo therefore balanced"

I wasn't positing that it was the best of ideas (hence why I said it was a suggestion in the first place), because I honestly don't know how one could balance a character with benefits that extreme. If I had a better idea, I would've proposed it.

EDIT: Gah, again with the double post. -__-'

 

[Spiffykins]

I was kind of surprised that I hadn't seen greater changes to how Yoshi recovers. I'm aware that others have acknowledged it, of course, but unless he got some awesome new way to use Egg Roll when he was off the stage, then his Up B needs to work quite differently for him to stand a chance. Heck, people still think G&W's recovery is lackluster when the rest of him is taken into account. As much as I stay away from playing as Yoshi seriously, I'd hate for the same thing to happen to him.

Yoshi is allowed to be different and still good. He's far from being the worst character in SSB64 and his recovery is just as bad there. I'd really like to see his design emulate that incarnation. DJC juggles, dair spikes, stupidly powerful smashes, etc. I've also heard that in PAL Melee his recovery isn't so bad because he's heavier and can't be hit out of his double jump until high percents. I hope they go that route rather than drastically changing his up-b. I'd be ok with using the egg roll for recovery and/or making up-b give him a slight boost, though.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I wasn't positing that it was the best of ideas (hence why I said it was a suggestion in the first place), because I honestly don't know how one could balance a character with benefits that extreme. If I had a better idea, I would've proposed it.

EDIT: Gah, again with the double post. -__-'

Moves like that have a higher start up, disallow momentum changes while in use, have a high cool down, low range, are easily crouch canceled, or any combination of the above. There are plenty of ways to balance moves with a particularly fantastic trait that revolve around much more relevant aspects of a character.

 

[Jandlebars]

Yoshi is allowed to be different and still good. He's far from being the worst character in SSB64 and his recovery is just as bad there. I'd really like to see his design emulate that incarnation. DJC juggles, dair spikes, stupidly powerful smashes, etc. I've also heard that in PAL Melee his recovery isn't so bad because he's heavier and can't be hit out of his double jump until high percents. I hope they go that route rather than drastically changing his up-b. I'd be ok with using the egg roll for recovery and/or making up-b give him a slight boost, though.

I do own the PAL version of Melee, but not the NTSC version, so I'll defer to you on the differences between the two.

Like I said, I'm not at all an expert on him, but he always did seem to get a raw deal in terms of recovery, even in the situations where he keeps his mid-air jump.
If others more experienced think that he doesn't need a drastic change to his Up-B (which I don't think *should* happen, necessarily; Egg Throw is a pretty solid move for Yoshi otherwise), then some extra benefit to using Egg Roll should be enough.

Moves like that have a higher start up, disallow momentum changes while in use, have a high cool down, low range, are easily crouch canceled, or any combination of the above. There are plenty of ways to balance moves with a particularly fantastic trait that revolve around much more relevant aspects of a character.

I would've been more receptive to your post initially had you mentioned those possibilities, but in any case, I understand what you mean.

 

[RedGamer]

no trying to derail the convo, but has anyone ever wondered how falco's brawl moveset would function in P:M?

I think it would be cool to add an option to use the brawl falco moveset. (like the zelda/sheik option in brawl)
I personally wondered how the brawl Fair, Nair, Uair, Utilt, and Fsmash would be like in P:M.
Melee shine is the obvious choice over the brawl shine.

 

[Vashimus]

Unless they're buffed in some way, all of those moves suck *** compared to their Melee counterparts. I'll take kicks over wing attacks any day.

 

[JOE!]

You talking aesthetically or functionally? Either way all he needs is Dair and Down/Nspec

also, yoshi stuff:

Like somebody said before, Yoshi's standard moves just need to be link-ifyed (adjust speed/%, etc), but I could see his specials all getting some work.

Egg Throw:
Keep the hop from brawl, and buff the explosion radius by a bit when it goes off. The explosion itself should act more like tink's bombs and hit 2x for 5%, with the second hit having some KB.

Egg Lay:
Increase range on the tounge to like, 1.5x its current length/length of his grab. On top of this, when he poops out an egg it should be at a diagonally downward angle so its always on the ground, and alternatively makes it a little scary if you catch somebody offstage. Lastly, when the egg breaks, give it the same hitbox as his egg toss to allow him to keep up the damage. This is his signature move, it should be Damn good lol.

Egg Roll:
Side B should be altered a good deal, but keep one aspect of it's melee self: the hop. In melee, when done in the air he boosted forward slightly. Expanding on that, how about making the roll similar to Sonic's side b in that it is a "hop" forward while in a rolling egg, but the move now ends after touching ground or jumping instead of continually rolling. On top of that, the initial hop should have super/heavy armor due to him essentially shielding himself, and allowing Yoshi to use the move to plow through basic attacks with the burst. Otherwise the move should remain the same in terms of %/KB, but add the ability to jump out of it at some point.

If Yoshi does not jump out, he will be stuck in the egg roll till he hits ground, allowing him to perform a recovery tactic of side b-jump-(eggthrows)-side b again instead of just relying on his double jump.

Yoshi Bomb:
I have a few thoughts on this move, bit in general I feel as though it should keep the brawl "launch" hitbox from the ground that combos to the drop, as well as maybe increased power.

1) When Yoshi uses this from the ground, give the leap the same heavy armor he has on his double jump. This will turn the move into a pseudo-counter at lower%, allowing Yoshi to punish poor spacing against him by trucking through a move and bombing the for thanks to the launcher hitbox.

2) When Yoshi spins before slamming down, give it a hitbox similar to say, kirbys brawl Nair. This could allow aerial down b to become a sort of anti-combo tool as he knocks people away, then plummets to the relative safety of the ground.

3) When Yoshi lands, buff the stars that POP out in some manner. Probably the weirdest of the options, but turning those into something useful could give use to doing a SH bomb, lol. Or, just make being near Yoshi when he drops a bit riskier.

4) Give Yoshi his DJ armor while dropping down. Straightforward, allows it to just be more threatening.

Any one of these would be cool imo.

General:
Make Yoshi's head intangible/invincible during the start up of his shield animation. He can't shield projectiles because of that, and its dumb. Speaking of shield, is it possible to give Yoshi much more shield HP? That could make his normally "bad" shield worthwhile as it not only prevents pokes, but can take more abuse in general in exchange for its normal drawbacks.