Character Idea Submission Thread

[ShewT]

I think kirby should heal a little like 1-7% whenever he successfully copy an ability. since he is technically digesting the enemies and it would help Kirby maybe even just a little for his lightweight and floatyness.

Also kirby should let out a puff of air that can do damage and very weak kb (and bonus by cancellable to other attacks straight away?) when he lands on the ground while in his inflated state(2nd/3rd jump and afters) and that strictly applies that he does not dodge/attack while in his inflated state or else he needs to jump again (for attack) to reinflate.

 

[ShewT]

This is for Samus

Why not make Samus dodge roll as a morph ball mode. Whenever Samus in brawl dodge rolls, she is always easily punished due to the slow movement of the rolling and the obvious location she will end at.

So as long as the shield button is held when dodge rolling, Samus will stay as a morph ball until player lets go. When first executed, it will act as a normal dodge roll but if the player keeps holding onto the shield, samus will stay as a morph ball and can move around and while going down slopes moves faster and going up slopes will be slower.

Maybe for bonus that she can use bombs by pressing B or A and can charge a power bomb as well

 

[ShewT]

I think kirby should heal a little like 1-7% whenever he successfully copy an ability. since he is technically digesting the enemies and it would help Kirby maybe even just a little for his lightweight and floatyness.

Also kirby should let out a puff of air that can do damage and very weak kb (and bonus by cancellable to other attacks straight away?) when he lands on the ground while in his inflated state(2nd/3rd jump and afters) and that strictly applies that he does not dodge/attack while in his inflated state or else he needs to jump again (for attack) to reinflate.

 

[himemiya]

Metaknight

Sorry, Bubba. I feel waiting two weeks will be too long. Thinking further into this situation, I think people should have the freedom to talk about whoever they want if they have a good idea right away. As long as they signify the character, like what I'm doing. Anyway.

This, it shouldn't matter who we're suppose to talk about as long as people know who talking about. IDC I'm posting my metaknight ideas

How about meta-strike? He moves kinda like lucarios down b but quicker and its an attack that homes in on the opponent. Take muramasa for example, Its has a move something like that its quick and good for follow-up combos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUuQMHG04LE

I should add if he hits the ground/wall it should be techable.

(10/28/2012 12:31 AM)tsukikomi Wrote:
They probably gonna have too because I don't see how it would fit for melee standard and with his speedyingness. I said earlier that his shuttle loop should be his side-b. On the ground be more like an roller coaster loop then go into a gilde and in the air he does a flip while moving forward then go into a gilde.

And other people ideas that should be consider is up-b drill rush.

 

[bubbaking]

ShewT, watch the triple posts.....

 

[ShewT]

yea, it was accidents. sorry

 

[Kink-Link5]

Glide for Side B
Modified Shuttle Loop for up-B
Drill Rush/Triple Dash for standard B
dumb cape thing for down B

 

[roymaster803]

If Kirby keeps his Melee dash, make it faster, set up better for combos, shorten the distance and give it less cooldown so he can act out of it faster.

I like some of the ideas here. Like Kirby getting a little bit of health back with succesfull copies. I wouldn't say 7 percent since you can taunt cancel Copy ability to get rid of specials. I feel that would be easily abused if the player was careful enough. maybe 3% at most. It's still rewarding without being really abusive.

I heard that Kirby was able to move during hammer at one time. I like this idea only make it more like the game where Kirby does a flaming hammer and it auto attacks after a short time. Make sure Kirby can't jump otherwise I think this could be a little too good. Give him the ability to duck instead. It would be something no other character can do during an attack. Before you say Wario just remember his is a crouch cancel. he doesn't actually crouch during his full move like I'm suggesting Kirby should.

 

[KayB]

Kirby's side-b should be Melee air hammer that's land cancel-able and harder to DI out of. Smash side-b should be Brawl hammer with slightly more damage.

Btw, what's this parrying thing I hear about Yoshi?

 

[Yurya]

Here is what I had posted for KIrby over at Smash Mods:

"I don't think he would need a large change from his Melee playstyle even though it was hard to find among his large weaknesses and small strengths.
Believe it or not he could play a semi decent defensive game and handle some edgeguarding with his multiple jumps and slow falling speed.
Similar to Dedede in PM yet lacking range, power, survivabilty, and spammable pillows.
However if his stats were tweaked slightly so stuff actually works (that should make him fun to play) and allowed his strengths to work he could work.

This is how I currently envision Kirby:

Slow air acceleration but faster air speed and momentum out of a dash. This would keep him on the ground to stay fast and allow him to go to the air and retain dash momentum but remain Kirby and not Jiggz.

Luigi-like aerials in terms of speed, and allow uair to become a better killer (equal stats with u-smash? I really don't see Kirby effectively fighting high in the air).

A spiking rather than Meteoring dair (stronger than Fox's but just enough to be noticeable).

A similar fair to melee but with a lower KB angle for getting people off the edge and gimping them off it.

Bair be bair.

I'm now fine with Melee's nair as long as it gains a little range and I would also like it to have some good shield stun and damage (I'm thinking jumping out of a dash and nairing right through a shield followed up by a couple of u-tilts for the shield break).

Except for Dash Attack I really don't see his ground attacks changing but I would like to see an improved d-tilt for better edge-guarding and a f-tilt closer to Shiek's so he can juggle better in front of himself.

As for Dash Attack I don't really care what it looks like as long as it is quick and starts combo's.

Hammer is works great as his side-b and if it was fast like Dedede's Uncharged Jet Hammer would be a reliable higher percentage finisher.

I would also like to see Final Cutter have almost instant start-up with much better hit-boxes and a stronger meteor. I also would like to be able to control when Kirby descends by simply pressing down during his rise.

If Stone took longer to transform and hit softer and at a lower angle I could see it having low end-lag to allow for more uses off-stage and returning to the ground safely.

Inhale should be slower than a grab in it's start-up but once out allow Kirby to walk and jump and cancel it almost immediately.

Copy should give him his opponent's easiest ranged move. I say that because it only effects Kirby's distance playstyle and aren't kill moves (moves like Egg Toss and Razor Leaf but also Raptor Boost--with "Falcon Punch" sfx of course--and Headbutt).

At high enough percentages up-throw should kill and d-throw should be Kirby's basic combo throw but I like the idea of forward and back throws going off the edge, however, I don't like them killing both characters involved.
If Kirby was to release his opponent off stage without plummeting either of them it would be beneficial to Kirby with his great offstage game and horrifying to his opponent.


If you have read through my ideas you hopefully have seen that I see Kirby as a light character that still struggles in getting that first hit in and doesn't have the deepest combos, but would no problem killing once you his opponent is at high enough percents or is off-stage."

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Btw, what's this parrying thing I hear about Yoshi?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVLRJ4jCBeI This is a visual demonstration and there is also a link to a thread here on the boards explaining more about it, if you click on the show more option on the video.

To help with the ideas for kirby you guys should be asking yourselves, what is kirby good at in each individual smash game he is in, what are his faults, can we incorporate traits from other games into this one without losing the general feel of the character, and how he should play. It takes a lot more than saying, "x move is bad it should be changed to this", or "they should give him x move cause it would be really cool".

Not criticizing you guys' ideas or anything, there are some snazzy ideas, just trying to help by suggesting another way to think about character ideas.

 

[bubbaking]

Yoshi's parry is his invincible shield raising animation. Unlike other characters, Yoshi's shield doesn't come out on frame 1 but while it's coming out, Yoshi's body is totally invincible, so with good predictions/reads Yoshi can just 'parry' an attack with the shield raising animation and then instantly counterattack. It's like a really good mix between a PS and a CC, except with almost no drawbacks. It was a big thing for Yoshi in both SSB 64 and Melee.

 

[Stunts]

IC Talk: CSS & Revenge Served Cold

One thing I want to bring back from Melee's incarnation is the CSS picture. In brawl, you could not tell which IC is leading. If it is possible to change the hair like in Melee, or have any other indication, that would be geat.


Also I think the leader IC could have a beefed up moveset to avenge his/her fallen comrade. IC's were pretty ruthless when in pairs. In both Melee and Brawl. (Though I prefer the Melee version) It'll be cool if when the supporter IC dies, the main IC's moveset gets buffed. It was sort of explored a little bit in brawl, but I was wondering if a solo IC would be more of a viable character. Granted, not as good as the IC duo, but able to hold his/her own. I am only talking about the Specials, normals should remain weakened when solo, imo.

NeutralB: Solo Ice Shot could be faster and/or have a better chance of freezing/have increased KB (similar to Diddy's uncharged Popgun).

SideB: Solo SideB could also work more like DK's Spinning Kong and have decent KB as the last hit (but could go to helpless). Or just be how it was in brawl. That'll be good, too.

UpB: Solo UpB could tether the ledge like ZSS's. Addition to which, it could also bring opponent's towards the solo IC if used as an attack.

DownB: Down B could have increased range and/or have a greater damage input.

 

[virtuososteve]

There should be a toon sheik or tetra!

 

[Alondite]

Samus' Smash Bros incarnation is canonically archaic; it's based on the slow, floaty, robotic Super Metroid incarnation. And quite frankly, I (and most any Smash play I know) don't find her the least bit enjoyable to play. She deserves a rebuild akin to what some of the Brawl newcomers got.

Other M is the first time we've gotten to see her in hand-to-hand combat in canon, and it differs radically from how she fights in Smash Bros. She's significantly faster vertically, and generally moves in a far more fluid and organic way. Not to mention her aesthetic changes.

Even speedier physics with an unchanged moveset would be an improvement, but as the focal character from one of Nintendo's "Big 3" franchises, she deserves more.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'd consider Pokemon, Zelda, and Kirby far bigger Nintendo franchises than Metroid.

 

[bubbaking]

Do not do that to Samus. There are people (like me) who greatly enjoyed how she played in Melee and the PMBR is aiming to restore the Melee veterans' Melee feel, not create some new playstyle for them that should technically be in a new Smash game altogether.

Also I think the leader IC could have a beefed up moveset to avenge his/her fallen comrade. IC's were pretty ruthless when in pairs. In both Melee and Brawl. (Though I prefer the Melee version) It'll be cool if when the supporter IC dies, the main IC's moveset gets buffed. It was sort of explored a little bit in brawl, but I was wondering if a solo IC would be more of a viable character. Granted, not as good as the IC duo, but able to hold his/her own. I am only talking about the Specials, normals should remain weakened when solo, imo.

This doesn't sound balanced, though. The ICs are supposed to be weak when solo. That's their 'gimmick'. They're extremely strong when together, especially on the ground, but when separated, they're weaker and easier to fight against. Seeing as how Melee ICs were practically High Tier and vBrawl ICs are Top Tier, I see nothing wrong with just leaving this the way it is. If you buff Sopo, you risk making the ICs outright broken.

 

[V-K]

Important for Icies: They should NOT desynch when moving too fast, only when hit. And Nana should be a lvl 9 or 8 CPU, I think in Melee it was lvl 3 or so, completely useless in a competitive match.

 

[bubbaking]

Making Nana too strong when separated will totally nullify the whole 'weak when separated' aspect of the ICs. Don't forget that P:M has smarter CPUs overall than there have ever been in Smash.

If the ICs only desynch when hit, then how will they desynch themselves when they want to?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Couldn't they desync with taunts and stuff?

I'm not saying changing the way they desync is a good idea, but there's more than one way to desync them.

 

[himemiya]

Taunt cancelling? The single iceclimber needs a better recovery at least so it won't be edgehoged to death.

 

[bubbaking]

Again, Sopo needs to be weak as heck, just like in Melee and vBrawl, so that he's balanced. That includes being easily edgeguarded and gimped. As an example, if Lucario wastes his Super Meter, he has a much harder time fighting and a much worse recovery. ICs shouldn't be treated any differently. If you waste your 'Super', Nana in this case, you should be punished for it. If anything, suggest buffs to the combo of the two, not to Sopo.

/50cents

 

[Kink-Link5]

One thing I want to bring back from Melee's incarnation is the CSS picture. In brawl, you could not tell which IC is leading. If it is possible to change the hair like in Melee, or have any other indication, that would be geat.


Also I think the leader IC could have a beefed up moveset to avenge his/her fallen comrade. IC's were pretty ruthless when in pairs. In both Melee and Brawl. (Though I prefer the Melee version) It'll be cool if when the supporter IC dies, the main IC's moveset gets buffed. It was sort of explored a little bit in brawl, but I was wondering if a solo IC would be more of a viable character. Granted, not as good as the IC duo, but able to hold his/her own. I am only talking about the Specials, normals should remain weakened when solo, imo.

NeutralB: Solo Ice Shot could be faster and/or have a better chance of freezing/have increased KB (similar to Diddy's uncharged Popgun).

SideB: Solo SideB could also work more like DK's Spinning Kong and have decent KB as the last hit (but could go to helpless). Or just be how it was in brawl. That'll be good, too.

UpB: Solo UpB could tether the ledge like ZSS's. Addition to which, it could also bring opponent's towards the solo IC if used as an attack.

DownB: Down B could have increased range and/or have a greater damage input.

I'd rather Popo just be given tools to use even without Nana. A land canceled Ice Block to set up for solo Ice Block Chases, hammer hitboxes that are actually put on the hammer heads; you know, stuff that makes sense. Maybe have dash attack get less end lag for both of them; it doesn't do much to help them together, but for Popo alone it means better comboes from a successful grab.

He doesn't have to be like, so good that Nana is virtually useless, but being able to "Put in work" without his partner, being capable of taking stocks even if he has to work really hard for them, is a lot of what Popo is about.

 

[V-K]

Again, Sopo needs to be weak as heck, just like in Melee and vBrawl, so that he's balanced. That includes being easily edgeguarded and gimped. As an example, if Lucario wastes his Super Meter, he has a much harder time fighting and a much worse recovery. ICs shouldn't be treated any differently. If you waste your 'Super', Nana in this case, you should be punished for it. If anything, suggest buffs to the combo of the two, not to Sopo.

/50cents

As long as icies arent top tier they should be buffed and in Melee that isn't the case. One of the problems was having less control over the situation when bein in pairs and being weaker as a single character.

Nana just randomly getting out of the synch is one of the most annoying things about the Icies followed by Nana's complete inability to defend herself 95% of the time. If lvl 9 is too high then maybe lvl 7.

 

[Kink-Link5]

What.

Making Popo weak as sin is the opposite of balanced, it's polarizing and bad game design. Separate IC's and it's gg's. You're character doesn't have tools to separate them? Oh too bad take trades every single time you attack them and get wrecked.

 

[V-K]

What.

Making Popo weak as sin is the opposite of balanced, it's polarizing and bad game design. Separate IC's and it's gg's. You're character doesn't have tools to separate them? Oh too bad take trades every single time you attack them and get wrecked.

Are you replying to me? Because I never said Popo needs to be weaker.

 

[Alondite]

I'd consider Pokemon, Zelda, and Kirby far bigger Nintendo franchises than Metroid.

Zelda is , but name one other Nintendo franchise (including Mario, even) that has games on par with Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. There aren't any.

And Kirby is an afterthought compared to Metroid in every way, shape, and form. A case could be made for Pokemon because of its absurd depth, but in terms of sheer quality it's still not close.

Do not do that to Samus. There are people (like me) who greatly enjoyed how she played in Melee and the PMBR is aiming to restore the Melee veterans' Melee feel, not create some new playstyle for them that should technically be in a new Smash game altogether.

Restoring the Melee feel solely for the sake of being like Melee is a huge wasted opportunity. Melee was far from a perfect game, and this is the perfect opportunity to take the best aspects from each game and bolster them with wholly unique ideas; the revamped Brawl characters,for instance, are the best part about Project M.

 

[thespymachine]

Zelda is , but name one other Nintendo franchise (including Mario, even) that has games on par with Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. There aren't any.

And Kirby is an afterthought compared to Metroid in every way, shape, and form. A case could be made for Pokemon because of its absurd depth, but in terms of sheer quality it's still not close.

The point that was being made was not the quality of games that came from said franchises, but the amount of love Nintendo gave to them, and the popularity with the fans. In this case, Zelda, Mario, and Pokemon are the big three.

Restoring the Melee feel solely for the sake of being like Melee is a huge wasted opportunity. Melee was far from a perfect game, and this is the perfect opportunity to take the best aspects from each game and bolster them with wholly unique ideas; the revamped Brawl characters,for instance, are the best part about Project M.

Agreed. The goal should be to create a better game - Melee mechanics being the foundation, since it's agreed it's the best of the Smash games.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Are you replying to me? Because I never said Popo needs to be weaker.

I'm replying to you quoting Bubbaking because that's how I get to see his posts.

 

[bubbaking]

On Sopo, you guys are totally misunderstanding me. I don't see why Kink-link is even trying to respond to me when he can't see my posts. Sounds silly to me...

Do ICs get wrecked in Melee? No, they're pretty much High Tier. Are they wrecked in vBrawl? No, they're cream-of-the-crop Top Tier. By "weak as heck", I obviously don't mean make Sopo any weaker than he is in Melee, but his vBrawl Sopo incarnation is a pretty good start. Sopo in vBrawl was definitely good enough. For people like Kink-link who want them to have hitboxes that make sense, I'm pretty sure that vBrawl also has done that already (SDR has too). If you want to buff the ICs and make them Top Tier, I say you should buff the combination of them. The goal of practically every MU against them should be to separate them and receive a MUCH easier MU. If you're worried about the separation of the two being too easy, then sure, buff them so that it's harder to do that. If you're scared that trades will render them obsolete (which you shouldn't be), then buff them to deal with that. Maybe make them heavier or something so that they can CC way better.

Btw, Kink really doesn't know what he's talking about when he talks about wrecking them through trades. The only chars who get to do that are like, Ganon and maybe Samus. The ICs are notorious for screwing crap for their opponents by winning ridiculous trades, 'cause, y'know, there are TWO of them.

Buffing Sopo just for the sake of Sopo is bad design. If Sopo is buffed as a result of buffing the whole, that's great. Saying, "Oh, let's make Sopo stronger when Nana dies" isn't a good idea. That completely messes with the whole goal of every char's MU against them. When a char faces a spacee, the goal is to combo him into oblivion and/or gimp his linear recovery extremely early. We don't just go, "Welp, Fox is being combo'd! Better make him floatier or somehow better mid-match so he can get out!" or "Falco is offstage. Buff his recovery in this situation so that he can get back more easily." If a char's in a bad situation, he's in a bad situation. We don't suddenly buff these characters so that those situations aren't bad anymore.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Right, that's why you get wrecked by trading with them

which is what I said

thank you for agreeing with me by saying exactly what I said. (Unblocking for the sake of conversation, but please stop bubbaking bubba.)

You're character doesn't have tools to separate them? Oh too bad take trades every single time you attack them and get wrecked.

 

[JOE!]

The focus still gonna be on the grab combos?

 

[Stunts]

IC clarification + Peach Request

For the record, my original post for ICs wasn't that good. And even though I said not as good as IC duos, my attack suggestions were so exaggerated some would think that sopo/sona was on par or better than the IC couple together. The thing is, I can't think of a good way to do this correctly. Yes, it should be a lot more subtle, but I still stick with the concept of my idea. Strong when together/Weak when apart is kind of their shtick. Solo IC should still be weak, but maybe sopo should a page from brawl and give'em a little more of an edge when they try to recover (compared to Melee). Yet again, I don't know how to tackle this so I'll just back down from this discussion.

Change of Subject
I know you guys won't work on items for a while. But are there any plans of giving Peach her melee beam sword attacks?

 

[bubbaking]

Nana just randomly getting out of the synch is one of the most annoying things about the Icies followed by Nana's complete inability to defend herself 95% of the time. If lvl 9 is too high then maybe lvl 7.

Again, I have no problem with buffing the ICs, but it should be done properly. If the problem is really with Nana desynching, then that's what should be fixed, and I believe vBrawl already fixed a lot of the ICs problems (wonky hitboxes, easy accidental desynchs, stupid Nana, overtly random Nana, etc). If a lot of their aspects from vBrawl are just ported over, they become an instantly better char right there.

Right, that's why you get wrecked by trading with them

which is what I said

thank you for agreeing with me by saying exactly what I said.

If that's really what you're saying, then I misunderstood you and I apologize. Your wording was pretty confusing. This still doesn't change the fact that buffing solely Sopo instead of the ICs' general mechanics, which would take effect both with the combined ICs and with Sopo, is a bad idea. A lot of the ICs' gameplay strategy revolves around the fact that each IC is equal and can do exactly what the other can (few exceptions that are even fewer in vBrawl). Nana is just as reliable for killing (or doing whatever else you want an IC to do) as Popo is, granted you can control her well enough to make her do that action.

Restoring the Melee feel solely for the sake of being like Melee is a huge wasted opportunity. Melee was far from a perfect game, and this is the perfect opportunity to take the best aspects from each game and bolster them with wholly unique ideas; the revamped Brawl characters,for instance, are the best part about Project M.

The PMBR has already stated that Melee veterans will be built solidly from their Melee bases. If we're going to talk about the other Smash games, that's fine, because Melee Samus was the best incarnation of Samus ever in Smash. vBrawl Samus was too slow, floaty, and weak. SSB 64 Samus was incredibly restricted because of game mechanics and worse kill power on a lot of moves, compared to Melee.

If you didn't like Samus in Melee, then she probably won't be for you in P:M. It's as simple as that. I'm not saying that a radically different Samus would be bad, but it wouldn't be what we old Samus mains are used to, and it's quite unfair tbh. Why should Samus be changed so drastically when other chars got to stay the same or extremely similar (still based around the same core concept)? KirbyKaze already expressed this sentiment regarding Sheik and she isn't even that different. A bunch of people are waiting for Samus right now, and they're waiting to relive what they remembered from Melee.

Agreed. The goal should be to create a better game - Melee mechanics being the foundation, since it's agreed it's the best of the Smash games.

Yes, we're making a "better game" but we're not taking it into our hands to completely change a char's design and decide what else is best for that char? We're simply expanding upon a concrete base, not transforming it completely.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

Zelda is , but name one other Nintendo franchise (including Mario, even) that has games on par with Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. There aren't any.

And Kirby is an afterthought compared to Metroid in every way, shape, and form. A case could be made for Pokemon because of its absurd depth, but in terms of sheer quality it's still not close.

The fanboy in me would argue that SMB3 and SM64 are definitely up there with Super Metroid and Prime. Both SMB3 and 64 are challenging and crazy innovative, with tons of cool powers and a ridiculous amount of secrets EVERYWHERE. Ten years later, and I could still play SMB3 and find new secrets I never knew about. If we're counting spinoffs, I'd say Super Mario RPG and Yoshi's Island are contenders as well.
(Super Mario World is very close, but no cigar IMO.)

And what about the Mother games (well, Earthbound and Mother 3, at least)?
Or F-zero GX?

EDIT: Donkey Kong Country 2 and Fire Emblem 4 are also top-notch games. Highly recommended.

I agree with you on Kirby though, although I would contend that Superstar is the best game in the series.

Anyhow, on the subject of the IC's, their "crying" animation needs to be a taunt.

 

[himemiya]

Change of Subject
I know you guys won't work on items for a while. But are there any plans of giving Peach her melee beam sword attacks?

No they're not they'll make sure items/solo don't freeze the game when there finish with the characters.

 

[Stunts]

No they're not they'll make sure items/solo don't freeze the game when there finish with the characters.

I know that. I was just asking if Peach will have her melee sword atacks/animations instead of her brawl ones. I know it is a very slim chance Peach will get a beam sword instead of a turnip, and melee peach with a sword is soo good. If anything it is stylized and graceful, she was putting her mushroom fencing classes into good use. Though I don't think it's nessesary, it would be a nice touch.

 

[Alondite]

The fanboy in me would argue that SMB3 and SM64 are definitely up there with Super Metroid and Prime. Both SMB3 and 64 are challenging and crazy innovative, with tons of cool powers and a ridiculous amount of secrets EVERYWHERE. Ten years later, and I could still play SMB3 and find new secrets I never knew about. If we're counting spinoffs, I'd say Super Mario RPG and Yoshi's Island are contenders as well.
(Super Mario World is very close, but no cigar IMO.)

And what about the Mother games (well, Earthbound and Mother 3, at least)?
Or F-zero GX?

EDIT: Donkey Kong Country 2 and Fire Emblem 4 are also top-notch games. Highly recommended.

I agree with you on Kirby though, although I would contend that Superstar is the best game in the series.

Anyhow, on the subject of the IC's, their "crying" animation needs to be a taunt.

I agree wholeheartedly that SMB3 and SM64 are both excellent games, but from a design perspective they also don't do anywhere near as much as Metroid or Zelda accomplish. Yoshi's Island is one of the better Mario games for sure, but I thought SMRPG was pretty weak gameplay-wise.

Mother 2 is great, though almost entirely because Giygas remains one of the most creative and vividly memorable bosses in video game history; that boss battle hits home every single time I play through that game.

I've always felt that DKC was a bit bland compared to the likes of 16-bit era Sonic and even Mario. Not really flawed games, but not particularly interesting either. Safe is a good word.

Geneology of the Holy War is the best strategy RPG (and dare I even say strategy game, period) ever made. Thoroughly incredible beginning to end. I was ecstatic when Melee was released because Fire Emblem was finally getting some love in the states. I've been a huge fan of Fire Emblem for roughly 15 years now.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Super Metroid is the most overrated and uninspired dreck of a game made in the last 20 years. All the game manages to accomplish is that it doesn't provide any ****ing sense of direction and you're left to spend hours tracking over the same areas over and over trying to find the one pixel to shoot or bomb or whatever that gets you to the next part of the game. A person would have to have some ridiculously nostalgia-warped view of the game to not see its flaws.

 

[Pimpfish]

as far as kirby goes, he has a lot of weaknesses in laggy, weak moves.
kirby is also very slow, in the ground and in the air.

i had a lot of fun comboing in melee with kirbys nair, then ftilt, repeat.

kirby could have an interesting side b instead of hammer, make it fireball. perhaps in the air its fireball and on the ground its hammer. just a thought.