Character Exploration Thread - Day 79: Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)

[Gengar84]

do you guys ever post picks of who you're talking about?

Yeah, I usually only do when I’m the one that nominated the character though. I’m usually on my phone and it’s kind of difficult to post pics from my phone. For some reason 75% of images don’t work when I copy and paste them.

 

[Commander_Alph]

So, what would be a perfect symbol representation for Disgaea? For a game that try to be all around over-the-top I can't think of an image to sums everything up other than NIS mascot.

 

[amageish]

So, what would be a perfect symbol representation for Disgaea? For a game that try to be all around over-the-top I can't think of an image to sums everything up other than NIS mascot.

I think it has to be a Prinny. I know that could cause confusion as it is the company mascot and they're on non-Disgaea NIS products, but they're also very cute and recognizable.

 

[Gengar84]

I think it has to be a Prinny. I know that could cause confusion as it is the company mascot and they're on non-Disgaea NIS products, but they're also very cute and recognizable.

Nah, I think a Prinny would be great. They are kind of a company mascot but they are also mostly known for their appearance in Disgaea.

As for images, here are the three main characters from Disgaea 1 (Flonne, Laharl, and Etna pictured left to right):

 

[amageish]

Nah, I think a Prinny would be great. They are kind of a company mascot but they are also mostly known for their appearance in Disgaea.

As for images, here are the three main characters from Disgaea 1 (Flonne, Laharl, and Etna pictured left to right):

View attachment 325188

True! I was just thinking of things like the Prinny Presents line, which is Prinny pretty prominently in a wider NIS context.

I don't think it'd actually matter, but, you know, it's definitely company-wide and they didn't use Jack Frost for Persona...

 

[fogbadge]

Nah, I think a Prinny would be great. They are kind of a company mascot but they are also mostly known for their appearance in Disgaea.

As for images, here are the three main characters from Disgaea 1 (Flonne, Laharl, and Etna pictured left to right):

View attachment 325188

i see. hes one of those characters who's most likely to die of hypothermia

 

[SharkLord]

Oof, I did not keep track of the time at all. ahemtoday , let's move over

 

[ahemtoday]

You got it, boss!

Spoiler

Commander_Alph x40 (45 Total)
C chocolatejr9 x20 (25 Total)
GolisoPower x15 (20 Total)
Gengar84 x40 (45 Total)
L Lionfranky x5 (10 Total)
Cutie Gwen x5 (10 Total)
W Waddle King x5 (10 Total)
amageish x15 (20 Total)

 

[Gengar84]

Noms:

x45 Gengar

I know I nominated Fulgore but I won’t be able to contribute much for a while since I need to go to bed and work until 3:30 tomorrow.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Nominations: Klonoa xMax

 

[GolisoPower]

Noms:
All in on Doom Slayer.

 

[Commander_Alph]

All noms for Endo Mamoru

 

[amageish]

Well, I'll get us started on Killer Instinct talk, if Gengar84 is going to be offline for a bit. Don't worry; you can join Midway through the discussion! Haha... Ha. Heh. It's a pun on Midway Games.

Anyway, Killer Instinct is a fighting game franchise from Rare! It's particularly beloved for its diverse and entertaining cast, making it stand out from the fighters of the time. It has had three games - two arcade (later ported to SNES and N64, with some extra content) and one as a Xbox One launch title.

Fulgore is this robot dude! I have not played these games in a very long time and do not remember much about the lore, but he has some Wolverine-esque claws, so that's... neat! Anyone have any thoughts on how he'd play?

 

[GolisoPower]

Ah, yes, Killer Instinct! Maximilian Dood's #1 fighting game and a classic Rareware IP alongside Banjo-Kazooie!

Fulgore already distinguishes himself from the other FGC characters by being a flat-out robot, and he has a unique Nuclear Reactor gimmick to work with to boot! I think Fulgore would be a heavily aggressive character with awesome range thanks to his laser eyes and a combo game plucked right out of the series! I could also see Combo Breakers being a Perfect Shield-style mechanic that Fulgore can pull off while being hit by opponents. Like, you could be in the middle of being hit by Kazuya's custom combos, then, "C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!", Fulgore creates a burst of damage that counters the incoming attack! Ohhh, and let's not forget the Devastation Beam, a ridiculously powerful chest laser introduced in KI2013 that could serve as a built-in Daybreak Cannon for this dude. There's just so much Fulgore has it's not even funny!

 

[Commander_Alph]

Any idea how to incorporate Combo Breaker?

 

[GolisoPower]

Any idea how to incorporate Combo Breaker?

Like I've said, I think it could be a Perfect Shield-type mechanic where if you Perfect Shield while you're being hit, you "break" the combo and open them up to counterattacks.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Any idea how to incorporate Combo Breaker?

I'm rather unfamiliar with KI despite thinking it looks cool as **** but would something like Darkest Lariat or Young Link Nair work? Moves with absurdly fast frame data that can be used as a Get Off Me attack when being combo'd

 

[Schnee117]

Fulgore Main and Thread Owner dropping in

Fulgore is effectively a Shoto-esque fighter, he has a Fireball type move with Plasma Bolt, he has his Uppercut with Plasma Slice and whilst he doesn't do a tornado kick, he has a Blade Dash which more or less functions similarly but otherwise he's 550 pounds worth of Highly-Advanced Cyborg kickassery.

Fulgore is an all-rounder character, he can excel at getting right on up in your face and playing aggressively and he has great zoning options to keep you out as one should expect from a Shoto.

His most defining trait in KI 2013 is his Nuclear Reactor. In KI 2013 all fighters have a meter, known as Shadow Meter. This typically consists of two bars that can be spent to enhance specials into more powerful shadow versions that either excel at extending the combo without increasing the combo bar or doing an especially powerful ender. Fulgore's meter is different to everyone else. Rather than the traditional two bars, he has an always filling blue bar that can increase or decrease in speed depending on the moves you use. Using his basic attacks, Blade Dash, or Plasma Slice will increase his reactor speed so his bar fills quicker. Using Plasma Port, Plasma Bolt or Eye Lasers decreases the Reactor speed.

Reactor Speed is important because Fulgore doesn't gain meter traditionally. At the fastest speed, he gains a Pip every 2.5 seconds, at the slowest he gains one every 10 seconds so knowing when to use Fulgore's moves is key, he's very momentum based. Now I mentioned Pips. Pips are what his actual Shadow Bar is and he can have 10 for a full meter. Shadow Moves cost Fulgore 4 Pips so he effectively as 2.5 bars of Shadow Meter. But there's more to the reactor and the pips. When Fulgore gains 4 Pips, his walking speed is increased, at 8 pips he can move backwards quicker, at 10 his dashes are enhanced to go further and be much faster. He also gains access to his strongest and most deadly move, the Hype Devastation Beam which uses up all 10 pips for an extremely powerful laser beam.

Look at Orchid's health get deleted

The individual pips themselves are important too, Fulgore can spend a pip to cancel any non-Plasma Port special move into another special move.

Killer Instinct also has a mechanic called, well, Instinct where each fighter gains a unique trait of sorts as represented by a yellow bar beneath their health. Fulgore's instinct has actually changed a fair bit across KI 2013's lifespan but it's settled on allowing two things, for one, Fulgore can instantly gain an extra pip by pressing both HP and HK at the same time. For the other, Fulgore can do his special cancels without spending a pip which allows for outrageous zoning and rushdown but his reactor still acts the same as always so you can't get too crazy with the zoning tools.

Fulgore excels at whittling down the foe with chip damage and is generally at an advantage on most of his moves, he also has a unique combo trait in that he can do auto-triples which is excellent for building meter if you can work them in. He is all about keeping the momentum going, so if you can keep up your attack on the opponent you'll have a ton of resources to use but if you wind up struggling to get in then you'll have a very hard time

For a better detailed version of what I said, check out Infilament's KI guide

 

[fogbadge]

Well, I'll get us started on Killer Instinct talk, if Gengar84 is going to be offline for a bit. Don't worry; you can join Midway through the discussion! Haha... Ha. Heh. It's a pun on Midway Games.

Anyway, Killer Instinct is a fighting game franchise from Rare! It's particularly beloved for its diverse and entertaining cast, making it stand out from the fighters of the time. It has had three games - two arcade (later ported to SNES and N64, with some extra content) and one as a Xbox One launch title.

View attachment 325309

Fulgore is this robot dude! I have not played these games in a very long time and do not remember much about the lore, but he has some Wolverine-esque claws, so that's... neat! Anyone have any thoughts on how he'd play?

its like the terminator had a baby with an action figure

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I haven't played KI in a long time(and mainly the older games).

Usually I just went for Combo Breaker as an easy Down B, but it sounds more interesting as a shield mechanic. Besides, more importantly, it needs the sound effect to truly be perfect.

They way I've usually played as him is where he starts combos with his rushing attack, allowing to easily go into it. I can't remember a lot of attack names(again, been a long time).

That said, his Shoryuken variant is an easy Up B, and his Reflector actually does make for an even more logical Down B. He's got a very typical projectile anyway, so straightforward neutral B. Side B could be his rush attack, maybe? His eye laser attacks could also make for a great jab while grabbing, and there's more than one way to do a Final Smash. Fulgore could do an Ultra Combo, while temporarily transforming into the enemy he's facing. There's also his orbital laser finisher, which would be... faster than any Ultra Combo. There's also having his combo game as a core part of the moveset anyway, so getting off a glorious Ultra Combo without hitting the Smash Ball is even more satisfying.

As for the B moves, holding down B while doing so can charge them up for the stronger variant attacks.

I also want to see his gold colors as well. The costumes are often pretty good in the older games, especially the N64 one, seeing as how they're differentiated palette swaps and all.

 

[Gengar84]

its like the terminator had a baby with an action figure

I’ve always thought of Fulgore as a cross between the Terminator and Predator in terms of design.

Anyway, I’m really impressed with the level of detail people are going into for Fulgore’s play style. I’ve always loved Killer Instinct but I’m trash at fighting games so I only really know the basics.

One thing I would love to see for any Killer Instinct character in Smash is to bring in the KI commentator with them. The commentator is one of the most memorable parts of the game for me along with the amazing soundtracks. I’d love to hear him shout out different combos (Killer Combo, Ultra Combo, etc.) as well as the iconic C-c-c-c-combo Breaker!

 

[fogbadge]

I’ve always thought of Fulgore as a cross between the Terminator and Predator in terms of design.

oh thats what it is

 

[Gengar84]

Do you guys think Fulgore’s default outfit should be his original SNES design or his more modern X-Box design? I imagine, either way, they would split the outfit slots with 4 each.

Here’s a couple examples of what he looked like in the older games:

 

[Perkilator]

Noms:
Alm ×5

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do you guys think Fulgore’s default outfit should be his original SNES design or his more modern X-Box design? I imagine, either way, they would split the outfit slots with 4 each.

Here’s an example of what he looked like in the first game:

View attachment 325311

It should depend the focus of the moveset.

Classic first otherwise if I’m ignoring other factors(personal bias).

 

[chocolatejr9]

What content would Fulgore bring with him? Not very knowledgable on KI...

 

[Schnee117]

Yeah Fulgore would have 4 lots of his modern look and 4 lots of his retro look with a preference for his modern look.

Every character wound up with about 11 or so base colours by the end of Season 3 and they had a few extras like Shadow, Mimic, Gold and some DLC skins for their main looks whilst Retros had about 6 or so colours to pick from so they wouldn't have to make any alt colours up.

What content would Fulgore bring with him? Not very knowledgable on KI...

For starters he'd bring the best fighting game soundtrack of all time with him
Fulgore's Theme
Arbiter's theme
Tusk's theme
Rash's theme
Jago's theme
Cinder's theme
Riptor's theme
Spinal's theme
Glacius' Theme
TJ Combo's Theme
Hisako's Theme
Aganos' Theme
Thunder's Theme
Gargos' Theme
Omen/Shadow Jago's theme

And you can see how several of them were made here

The stage would probably be based on one of Fulgore's home stages which are all based around Ultratech

And this brings me to something really cool that Killer Instinct does with both.
The music in KI 2013 changes depending on what's going on during the match so if there's a lull in fighting going on the music will settle down to a calmer beat, but if there's plenty of combos and interactions going on it'll flare up to a high paced, loud beat to match the action, every theme is also composed to fit in with every character's Ultra Combo so each major hit is accompanied by a beat and is set to a particular rhythm.

The stage reacts as appropriate to this too. In Fulgore's stage the reactor in the background speeds up and eventually flares up when an Ultra is done with damage being done to the building.

 

[Gengar84]

What content would Fulgore bring with him? Not very knowledgable on KI...

For one, Killer Instinct probably has the best music of any fighting game series ever. I can’t post many examples now since I’m at work but here is the title theme just to give you some idea:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

I see I was beaten to the punch with the new OST so here is my favorite track from KI Gold:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

 

[Mr. Stevenson]

While I think Conker definitely deserves dibs as the second Rare newcomer, I believe Fulgore makes a hell of a lot of sense too. He’s the poster boy of Killer Instinct, which is a series with a lot of history with Nintendo, specially during the SNES days, that even pushed forward for Nintendo and Rare’s tight knit partnership in the past.

Fulgore was also included on the cover artwork on early N64 boxes, which I thought was a really cool detail from Nintendo.

His moveset would be swell and pretty easy to translate to Smash. I believe his final Smash should be either the Devastation Beam or the Turret Morph.

Appearance wise, I’d want him to be based on his original design, his 2013 redesign feels generic and bland. My favorite render however is his retro version from that title.

It’s a really great HD recreation of his classic appearance and pretty much how I’d imagine Fulgore’s Smash design should look like. All it needs is for his, shall we call it, “ponytail” to be slightly larger and have those blue stripes on it, and presto!

 

[GolisoPower]

So compared to the other FGC characters in the roster, how easy would Fulgore be to use? I mean, yeah, he'd be tough to use via his command inputs, but would he be Terry levels of easy? Kazuya levels of complex?

 

[Gengar84]

So compared to the other FGC characters in the roster, how easy would Fulgore be to use? I mean, yeah, he'd be tough to use via his command inputs, but would he be Terry levels of easy? Kazuya levels of complex?

That’s a great question. I think you could really go either way with him depending on if you based him off the classic or modern games. The 2013 game did have an auto combo option where you could just repeatedly press the attack button and it more or less did a combo for you. I used this a lot because I’m no good at fighting games despite loving a lot of their characters.

 

[Schnee117]

So compared to the other FGC characters in the roster, how easy would Fulgore be to use? I mean, yeah, he'd be tough to use via his command inputs, but would he be Terry levels of easy? Kazuya levels of complex?

He'd be closer to Terry but I imagine him using his Reactor Meter for Shadow Specials and Devastation Beam to separate him from the others which raises the level a bit

He has five specials to fit in too

Plasma Bolt - Neutral Special/QCF
Plasma Slice - Up Special/DP
Blade Dash - Forward Special/FF
Eye Laser - Back Special/QCB
Plasma Port - Down Special/DD

I see it as the regular special version is the light version, command input tap for medium, command input hold for heavy and then command input special for Shadow versions if there's meter otherwise it doubles as the Heavy version. Plasma Port having fixed teleportation points makes this viable.

Devastation beam would then be a Half Circle forwards at full meter because I don't see Smash opting for a combined QCF A+B button press like KI wants a QCF LP+MP+HP input.

This actually brings me to the final smash, Fulgore would have two options, his Ultra Combo and his Ultimate.
A regular Final Smash input is his Ultra Combo
A QCF input would result in his Ultimate in which he starts off with the Ultra but quickly knocks the foe away after doing some console thing on the arm and leaps up to unleash a gigantic Devastation Beam

Both of these have the KI announcer yell out "ULTRA COMBO", "ULTRA" or "ULTIMATE"

If Fulgore wins then depending on performance the KI announcer says either "Supreme Victory" if you perform really well (ie. have more stocks left or a certain amount more KOs scored) or "Awesome Victory" for a regular win

 

[Gengar84]

He'd be closer to Terry but I imagine him using his Reactor Meter for Shadow Specials and Devastation Beam to separate him from the others which raises the level a bit

He has five specials to fit in too

Plasma Bolt - Neutral Special/QCF
Plasma Slice - Up Special/DP
Blade Dash - Forward Special/FF
Eye Laser - Back Special/QCB
Plasma Port - Down Special/DD

I see it as the regular special version is the light version, command input tap for medium, command input hold for heavy and then command input special for Shadow versions if there's meter otherwise it doubles as the Heavy version. Plasma Port having fixed teleportation points makes this viable.

Devastation beam would then be a Half Circle forwards at full meter because I don't see Smash opting for a combined QCF A+B button press like KI wants a QCF LP+MP+HP input.

This actually brings me to the final smash, Fulgore would have two options, his Ultra Combo and his Ultimate.
A regular Final Smash input is his Ultra Combo
A QCF input would result in his Ultimate in which he starts off with the Ultra but quickly knocks the foe away after doing some console thing on the arm and leaps up to unleash a gigantic Devastation Beam

Both of these have the KI announcer yell out "ULTRA COMBO", "ULTRA" or "ULTIMATE"

If Fulgore wins then depending on performance the KI announcer says either "Supreme Victory" if you perform really well (ie. have more stocks left or a certain amount more KOs scored) or "Awesome Victory" for a regular win

I love these ideas. Another thing I think would be fitting for any Killer Instinct character is to borrow from Kazuya’s pummel and have that be another long combo where the announcer shouts it at the end of the combo if you connect with the whole chain.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

One idea that came to mind is the Perfect Shield could double as his Reflector move when dealing with a regular projectile. Obviously stuff like a Fire Flower was never going to be easy to use a Counter Move on. So against regular projectiles, it reflects, but against a physical attack, it does his Combo Breaker(which usually is his Plasma Slice. Though I forget if he had another animation, as it's been years since I've played my Nintendo-related copies. It's the only one I remember outright).

Admittedly, the idea of him turning into a mirror version of another character is cool, but would take way too much programming to do. It'd be a great Taunt or Victory Screen thing, though.

I also love the Awesome Victory and Extreme Victory ideas. They fit so well.

Same with the different Final Smashes. Nothing like a death beam from above to get the blood pumping.

 

[fogbadge]

Same with the different Final Smashes. Nothing like a death beam from above to get the blood pumping.

hey what did i say about telling people about my death beam

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah Fulgore would have 4 lots of his modern look and 4 lots of his retro look with a preference for his modern look.

Every character wound up with about 11 or so base colours by the end of Season 3 and they had a few extras like Shadow, Mimic, Gold and some DLC skins for their main looks whilst Retros had about 6 or so colours to pick from so they wouldn't have to make any alt colours up.



For starters he'd bring the best fighting game soundtrack of all time with him
Fulgore's Theme
Arbiter's theme
Tusk's theme
Rash's theme
Jago's theme
Cinder's theme
Riptor's theme
Spinal's theme
Glacius' Theme
TJ Combo's Theme
Hisako's Theme
Aganos' Theme
Thunder's Theme
Gargos' Theme
Omen/Shadow Jago's theme

And you can see how several of them were made here

The stage would probably be based on one of Fulgore's home stages which are all based around Ultratech

And this brings me to something really cool that Killer Instinct does with both.
The music in KI 2013 changes depending on what's going on during the match so if there's a lull in fighting going on the music will settle down to a calmer beat, but if there's plenty of combos and interactions going on it'll flare up to a high paced, loud beat to match the action, every theme is also composed to fit in with every character's Ultra Combo so each major hit is accompanied by a beat and is set to a particular rhythm.

The stage reacts as appropriate to this too. In Fulgore's stage the reactor in the background speeds up and eventually flares up when an Ultra is done with damage being done to the building.

Thanks for sharing this. I’ve always really loved the soundtrack of Killer Instinct but I never really knew any of the behind the scenes stuff. I just finished watching the entire video of how the soundtrack was made and I thought it was really interesting. I listen to Little V Mills and I had no idea he actually helped with the official Cinder theme. That’s awesome!

 

[amageish]

Welp. Time to post a normal noms list with nothing different or abnormal.

Wait. What's this?!?

C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER

Spoiler: The Noms List

75+ noms
Endo Mamoru - x90
Axel Stone - x90
Aloy - x90
Octoling - x89
Black Mage - x85
Velvet Crowe - x80
Klonoa - x80

50-75 noms
Rivals of Aether rep - x75
Shovel Knight - x75
Filia (Skullgirls) - x70
Estelle Bright - x70
Doomguy - x70
Hearthstone Innkeeper - x65
Heavy - x60
Ichiban - x55
Isaac (Golden Sun) - x55

26-50 noms
Rintarou Okabe - x50
Bubsy - x50
Ryu Hayabusa - x50
Gengar - x45
Vectorman - x45
2B - x40
Wilfre - x30
Wadanohara* - x30
Zero Escape Rep - x30
Jason Frudnick - x30
Ori - x30
Tsubasa Oribe - x30
Sly Cooper - x28
Trauma Center Content - x27

11-25 noms
Chun-Li - x25
Meowth - x25
Alm - x25
Master Hand - x20
Mega Man X - x20
Morrigan - x20
Brian - x15
Toad - x15

5-10 noms
Crypto - x10
Daitoryo - x10
Gunvolt - x10
Darkest Dungeon Content - x10
Carl Johnson - x5
SMT Content - x5
Frogger - x5
Jonesy - x5
Ezio - x5
9-volt - x5
Nathan Drake - x5
Spyro the Dragon - x3
Tracer - x3
Chell - x3

Okay, uh, in reality Endo is tied for 1st, so the placements haven't moved much, but I really wanted to make that joke. In fact, I purposefully didn't give Aloy noms today, instead giving them to Tsubasa, as I didn't want Aloy to break out into first as I feel like making a joke about my own nomination becoming first would be a bit rude.

Anyway... Good conversation everyone! Sorry, I was busy today...

 

[SharkLord]

I didn't get to talk about it earlier, but my only real experience with Killer Instinct is the music

It's also really good music

 

[Gengar84]

I didn't get to talk about it earlier, but my only real experience with Killer Instinct is the music

It's also really good music

Yeah, I absolutely love Killer Instinct music. The older games even had quite a few amazing songs. I think I listen to at least a few KI songs every day at work. I listened to Hisako’s theme (Village of Whispers) once for over three hours straight. Back to Rise, Herald of Gargos, Hinnamatoom, and tons of others are awesome too.

Since Schnee117 went through the effort of sharing the amazing soundtrack of the X-box game, let me ask: What are everyone’s favorite tracks? Which would you love to see get in Smash?

 

[ahemtoday]

Since Schnee117 went through the effort of sharing the amazing soundtrack of the X-box game, let me ask: What are everyone’s favorite tracks? Which would you love to see get in Smash?

I have no experience with KI, but even I have an answer.

I'M BACK TO RISE
I'M BACK TO GLOW
I'M BACK TO FLY
I'M BACK TO SOAR
I'M BACK TO WAR
LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD
I FEEL ON FIRE WHEN MY PASSION FLOWS