Character Exploration Thread - Day 79: Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)

[Rie Sonomura]

Elma is a character who's from what many consider a "black sheep" for the franchise, but it's still an entry worthy of bearing the name Xenoblade.

She seems like a really powerful character who swaps different attacks on the fly and is all about dealing as much damage as possible in your party. She also has something called "Overdrive", which bolsters her abilities to ridiculous levels. To my understanding, and my memory of using it from Xenoblade 2's DLC, Overdrive can be extended by chaining arts together in quick succession, which I believe helps in Xenoblade X since Arts can be charged twice, and even thrice with Overdrive active.

In Smash, I could imagine this being a sort of "snowball" mechanic where you need to keep it going to fully exploit its benefits: like, you can activate it at anytime but you have to keep attacking and chaining Specials together to keep it active for longer.

Having played X, here’s how Overdrive works in that game;
Arts cool down is faster
Purple arts add TP
Green (and I think Blue also) arts add time to the counter
Orange and Yellow arts add to the count, which boosts damage, time bonuses and TP bonuses

that’s probably just scratching the surface

 

[Gengar84]

Overall, Xenoblade X has an amazing soundtrack (with a few exceptions like the New LA theme). I would love to get most of it in Smash. What are some of your favorite tracks you’d like to see brought over with Elma assuming there are no issues with licensing.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Overall, Xenoblade X has an amazing soundtrack (with a few exceptions like the New LA theme). I would love to get most of it in Smash. What are some of your favorite tracks you’d like to see brought over with Elma?

UNCONTROLLABLE, NO QUESTION. BOTH VOCAL AND INSTRUMENTAL.

but also:

• Black Tar
• Minor Boss Battle
• Major Boss Battle
• Ganglion Skell Battle
• The Key We’ve Lost
• aBOreSSs (Prog Ares)
• If Sylvalum is the stage, Sylvalum’s day and night themes
• Yggralith Zero’s theme
• Telethia the Endbringer’s theme
• Crisis (the cutscene version, not the post game Superboss segment)
• …aaaaand if it counts, her victory theme should be the part in THEMEX from 4:20 onward

Most of these have actual names that are… a bit weird to type out. I can’t type out their actual names from memory

 

[Paraster]

Looking at SSBWiki, it seems only 5 Xenoblade X spirits (Elma, Lao, Lin, Tatsu, and Formula) are present in Ultimate. What could be used as additional spirits? And what would be the Legend spirit and their unique skill?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Looking at SSBWiki, it seems only 5 Xenoblade X spirits (Elma, Lao, Lin, Tatsu, and Formula) are present in Ultimate. What could be used as additional spirits? And what would be the Legend spirit and their unique skill?

Irina, Gwin, L’cirufe, Doug, Celica (Xenoblade Chronicles X), Nagi, and maybe Telethia the Endbringer as the Legend Spirit (strongest Tyrant in the game at level 99. For context your party caps at level 60.)

 

[Perkilator]

Oops! Forgot to put some extra noms.

Noms:
Sakura Shinguji x5

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ok but

the trailer. How will it go? I hope it references her Xenoblade 2 introduction where she says “they’ll have to crank up the difficulty next time” or something. Maybe she faces EVERYONE and she says “wow, they really did crank up the difficulty this time!”

oh and if I’m allowed to do so:

Octoling x5

 

[pupNapoleon]

I agree that it definitely should be Scorpion. But then again, Heihachi is definitely the face of Tekken, yet we got Kazuya instead. And much like Kazuya, Sub-Zero shares the spotlight with Scorpion all the time and definitely has a case to be made for his inclusion in Smash.

Yeah I guess charge specials are pretty similar, but still do work differently from the MK inputs.

I don't really find Heihachi to be the face of the series. It changes with each of the games- the story is like the Skywalkers in Star Wars- the family is at the center, and it rotates between them, as protagonist as well as mascot.

 

[GolisoPower]

Ok but

the trailer. How will it go? I hope it references her Xenoblade 2 introduction where she says “they’ll have to crank up the difficulty next time” or something. Maybe she faces EVERYONE and she says “wow, they really did crank up the difficulty this time!”

oh and if I’m allowed to do so:

Octoling x5

I imagine it having something to do with Star Fox and Metroid due to their themes of space travel that Xenoblade X shares. Samus, Fox and Falco land on Mira and are cornered by a bunch of the local wildlife before Elma hops in to save the day. That's how I see it going about.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Noms: Meowth x15

Elma is a pretty tragic character. Xenoblade X is easily my favorite game in the Xeno series and it sucks that it was just a bit too late to make it into Smash 4, and then was overshadowed by Xenoblade 2 by the time Ultimate came around. She's so unique in terms of her character design and abilities. I feel like she would really subvert a lot of people's expectations of what a "generic JRPG protagonist" is. Even though we just got Pyra/Mythra, I honestly would not mind at all if we got Elma as well. X is so different from the other Xenoblade games that it would hardly feel like overkill imo.

I don't really find Heihachi to be the face of the series. It changes with each of the games- the story is like the Skywalkers in Star Wars- the family is at the center, and it rotates between them, as protagonist as well as mascot.

You could say a similar thing with MK. Like any other fighting game, the story rotates around a large cast of characters. And honestly, Scorpion is very rarely in the center of it all. Even the movie, Scorpion's Revenge, has more Liu Kang in it than it does Scorpion, and if you look at MK's mainline and spin-off games, the main protagonists are:

Spoiler

MK1 - Liu Kang
MKII - Liu Kang
MK3 - Liu Kang
MK4 -Liu Kang
MKDA - Raiden? Though the game mainly focuses on the antagonists - Quan Chi and Shang Tsung
MKD - Shujinko
MKA - Taven
MKvDC (if you count it) - you could make a case that it's either Liu, Raiden, Batman or Superman. Probably Superman.
MK9 - Liu Kang and Raiden
MKX - Cassie Cage
MK11 - Liu Kang

And spin-offs:
MKM:SZ - Sub-Zero
MKSF: Jax
MKSM: Liu Kang and Kung Lao

I do agree that Scorpion is more of a face for the series than Liu, but he still shares the role of mascot with Sub-Zero, much like how the entire Mishima family all act as the mascots of Tekken. The most recent games utilize both of them quite a bit. They almost go out of there way to portray them as equals.

Spoiler

 

[Guynamednelson]

FINISH IT


NOMTALITY

Max noms on Isaac GS.

 

[GolisoPower]

Oh, almost forgot!

All my noms going to Aether/Lumine.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Noms: Meowth x15

Elma is a pretty tragic character. Xenoblade X is easily my favorite game in the Xeno series and it sucks that it was just a bit too late to make it into Smash 4, and then was overshadowed by Xenoblade 2 by the time Ultimate came around. She's so unique in terms of her character design and abilities. I feel like she would really subvert a lot of people's expectations of what a "generic JRPG protagonist" is. Even though we just got Pyra/Mythra, I honestly would not mind at all if we got Elma as well. X is so different from the other Xenoblade games that it would hardly feel like overkill imo.

You could say a similar thing with MK. Like any other fighting game, the story rotates around a large cast of characters. And honestly, Scorpion is very rarely in the center of it all. Even the movie, Scorpion's Revenge, has more Liu Kang in it than it does Scorpion, and if you look at MK's mainline and spin-off games, the main protagonists are:

Spoiler

MK1 - Liu Kang
MKII - Liu Kang
MK3 - Liu Kang
MK4 -Liu Kang
MKDA - Raiden? Though the game mainly focuses on the antagonists - Quan Chi and Shang Tsung
MKD - Shujinko
MKA - Taven
MKvDC (if you count it) - you could make a case that it's either Liu, Raiden, Batman or Superman. Probably Superman.
MK9 - Liu Kang and Raiden
MKX - Cassie Cage
MK11 - Liu Kang

And spin-offs:
MKM:SZ - Sub-Zero
MKSF: Jax
MKSM: Liu Kang and Kung Lao

I do agree that Scorpion is more of a face for the series than Liu, but he still shares the role of mascot with Sub-Zero, much like how the entire Mishima family all act as the mascots of Tekken. The most recent games utilize both of them quite a bit. They almost go out of there way to portray them as equals.

Spoiler

Possibly- though Scoprion has been the face of the series for a long time (and I would argue that this translates to Sub Zero, often, as well).
Scorpion is the cover mascot. There are collector's editions which tend to only have Scorpion, or occassionally Sub Zero as well.
As far as I know, there isn't much/any merch of Liu Kang. I never intended to communicate that Sub Zero isn't almost as much of a mascot as Scorpion. It is so close that, this is why I think both should get in.
But as far as the Mishima family, which of the family fills this category, changes with each game (and even the coverart).

But again, these are just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[GolisoPower]

So what about...uh, the stage? There's a lot to choose from Xenoblade X, and honestly, there's potential to be unique from Gaur Plains and Cloud Sea of Alrest.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So what about...uh, the stage? There's a lot to choose from Xenoblade X, and honestly, there's potential to be unique from Gaur Plains and Cloud Sea of Alrest.

Sylvalum tbh

it’s probably the most unique environment in X that also doesn’t have anything like it in Smash. Much more unique weather effects like crimson auroras and spore fog as well

best music too especially at night

 

[ahemtoday]

Hey, so we've seen a couple ideas for overarching concepts of Elma's movesets, but honestly what I look for most in a character is a couple simple but unique and fun specials. What could Elma bring to the table in that department?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hey, so we've seen a couple ideas for overarching concepts of Elma's movesets, but honestly what I look for most in a character is a couple simple but unique and fun specials. What could Elma bring to the table in that department?

If she has Executioner as a gun attack, using it after another gun attack like Sliding Slinger could boost damage just like in X. Much like how Shulk’s Back Slash has more effect attacking from behind

 

[Gengar84]

Hey, so we've seen a couple ideas for overarching concepts of Elma's movesets, but honestly what I look for most in a character is a couple simple but unique and fun specials. What could Elma bring to the table in that department?

It’s been a while since I’ve played Xenoblade X and I only made it to the Skell license exam so I’m probably not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to specific moves but I think Delzethin did a great job a while ago coming up with something:

Challenger Approaching: Elma Character Concept

Twitter: https://twitter.com/DelzethinMan, I know B.L.A.D.E.s get roped into all kinds of stuff, but this one tops 'em all! Elma's next mission could take h...

m.youtube.com

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I know nothing of Xenoblade so I'll just use my extra noms.

Brian x10(if you didn't guess/look at my sig, I do mean the Quest 64 protagonist).

 

[amageish]

Elma is a good character who would be neat to see in Smash... but I also don't have that much to say about her personally, honestly.

I'll just ask a generic question: How are we doing this classic mode?

 

[Gengar84]

Do you think Elma should have an alternate outfit based on a spoiler later in the game that I won’t elaborate on? Sakurai doesn’t seem too concerned with spoilers based on Fiora, the Black Knight, and even Sheik so it’s not out of the question.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Do you think Elma should have an alternate outfit based on a spoiler later in the game that I won’t elaborate on? Sakurai doesn’t seem too concerned with spoilers based on Fiora, the Black Knight, and even Sheik so it’s not out of the question.

Well yeah, since Pyra and Mythra have a Pneuma palette, and Palutena’s 4 trailer referenced the Chaos Kin

of course, the outfit you’re referring to… will 100% need some censoring done for obvious reasons. If you know you know

 

[SharkLord]

Y'know, what are all of Elma's Arts? I'm not too knowledgeable on XCX.

Also, how do the Skells work in gameplay? Do they have their own Arts or something?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Y'know, what are all of Elma's Arts? I'm not too knowledgeable on XCX.

Also, how do the Skells work in gameplay? Do they have their own Arts or something?

Yeah Skells have their own arts which depend on the parts you get for them and are very customizable, they're basically a different character all together, albeit one that can't function on their own or revive you when you're down.

How would Ghost Factory work? In the original, it made you attract significantly less aggro which can't really work for obvious reasons, it'd clearly work as an install but what it'd do specifically is what I'm stuck on

AW YEAH BABY

THE QUEEN’S TIME HAS COME

Maybe as part of her intro animation too, like she leaps out of a flying Skell similarly to the Star Fox peeps and Zero Suit?

yeah, X is more sci-fi, and that’s kinda why I enjoy it so much. It pretty much scratched my itch for a hardcore sci fi JRPG after Xenosaga

Elma has twin swords AND twin guns and X has a weapon switching mechanic. In hindsight, maybe Elma could be an “install” character where her moves change depending on whether she’s using the dual swords or dual guns

You're thinking of a stance change which is more accurate to how the two get swapped in game at the press of a button without any specifc requirements

 

[ZelDan]

Firstly, I didn't use my earlier noms, so x5 for Isaac and x5 for Shovel Knight

Secondly, I wonder if they'd actually reference true alien form in Smash? they had no problem spoiling "Seven" from the first Xenoblade, so...

If they were willing to spoil Elma's true form, I could see it as an alt

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Firstly, I didn't use my earlier noms, so x5 for Isaac and x5 for Shovel Knight

Secondly, I wonder if they'd actually reference true alien form in Smash? they had no problem spoiling "Seven" from the first Xenoblade, so...

If they were willing to spoil Elma's true form, I could see it as an alt

They gleefully spoiled **** like Mother 3's Masked Man, Jade Face, Master Driver Rex and Pneuma, they won't hesitate

 

[Perkilator]

What would Elma’s Fighter Spirit be? She has artwork from XC2 they could use, doesn’t she?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What would Elma’s Fighter Spirit be? She has artwork from XC2 they could use, doesn’t she?

Yes, and an alternate XCX artwork that’s not the one used for her spirit

also, what would her taunts and victory screens be? As for the boxing ring title it’ll 100% be “Full Metal Jaguar”

 

[Flyboy]

Aww, I missed Scorpion's day because I was too tired to post. Goodbye, noms.

I would have had more to say about Elma two years ago but I've spent years talking about her...

So I'll just drop the song I wish could have gotten in.

Nominations: Ichiban xMax

 

[amageish]

You know what else is weirdly long and impressive for the system it runs on? The Noms List!

Spoiler: The Noms List

50+ noms
Astral Chain rep - x110
Hat Kid - x80
Zoe* - x75
Filia (Skullgirls) - x70
Hearthstone Innkeeper - x65
Laharl - x65
Aether/Lumine/The-Traveler (Genshin Impact MC) - x65
Illidan Stormrage - x60
Black Mage - x60
Axel Stone - x60
Heavy - x60
Saber - x55
Chibi-Robo - x55

26-50 noms
Bubsy - x50
Isaac (Golden Sun) - x50
Ichiban - x50
Sakura Shinguji - x45
Ryza - x45
Estelle Bright - x45
Endo Mamoru - x45
Madeleine - x40
Gordon Freeman - x40
2B - x40
Octoling - x40
Shovel Knight - x35
Wilfre* - x30
Wadanohara* - x30
Zero Escape Rep - x30
Sly Cooper - x28

11-25 noms
Chun-Li - x25
Klonoa - x25
Trauma Center Content - x22
Master Hand - x20
Mega Man X - x20
Morrigan - x20
Meowth - x15
Brian - x15

5-10 noms
Rintarou Okabe - x10
Daitoryo - x10
Rivals of Aether rep - x10
Ori - x10
Frogger - x5
Jonesy - x5
Geolyte (Meteos) - x5
Ezio - x5
9-volt - x5
Gunvolt - x5
Nathan Drake - x5
Darkest Dungeon Content - x5
Spyro the Dragon - x3
Tracer - x3
Chell - x3

I should, uh, probably invest in a better computer one day...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

My last questions weren’t answered

anyway, wonder what the total noms are for everyone

I guess there wasn’t a lot of discussion. Should have mentioned this in the Elma thread

 

[GolisoPower]

Yes, and an alternate XCX artwork that’s not the one used for her spirit

also, what would her taunts and victory screens be? As for the boxing ring title it’ll 100% be “Full Metal Jaguar”

One of her taunts would probably involve using the Follow Ball and the like. As for Victory animations, it could be a cinematic version of her Level III from Xenoblade 2.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

One of her taunts would probably involve using the Follow Ball and the like. As for Victory animations, it could be a cinematic version of her Level III from Xenoblade 2.

I was thinking also a “cinematic” one like Joker or Sephiroth, where Elma stands on the cliff overlooking New Los Angeles

 

[ZelDan]

Uhhh, maybe I'm just going crazy or am blind but I don't see Bill\Lance on the noms list?

or did the Contra discussion already happen due to get a huge surge in noms and I somehow missed all this?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You know what else is weirdly long and impressive for the system it runs on? The Noms List!

Spoiler: The Noms List

50+ noms
Astral Chain rep - x110
Hat Kid - x80
Zoe* - x75
Filia (Skullgirls) - x70
Hearthstone Innkeeper - x65
Laharl - x65
Aether/Lumine/The-Traveler (Genshin Impact MC) - x65
Illidan Stormrage - x60
Black Mage - x60
Axel Stone - x60
Heavy - x60
Saber - x55
Chibi-Robo - x55

26-50 noms
Bubsy - x50
Isaac (Golden Sun) - x50
Ichiban - x50
Sakura Shinguji - x45
Ryza - x45
Estelle Bright - x45
Endo Mamoru - x45
Madeleine - x40
Gordon Freeman - x40
2B - x40
Octoling - x35
Shovel Knight - x35
Wilfre* - x30
Wadanohara* - x30
Zero Escape Rep - x30
Sly Cooper - x28

11-25 noms
Chun-Li - x25
Klonoa - x25
Trauma Center Content - x22
Master Hand - x20
Mega Man X - x20
Morrigan - x20
Meowth - x15
Brian - x15

5-10 noms
Rintarou Okabe - x10
Daitoryo - x10
Rivals of Aether rep - x10
Ori - x10
Octoling - x5
Frogger - x5
Jonesy - x5
Geolyte (Meteos) - x5
Ezio - x5
9-volt - x5
Gunvolt - x5
Nathan Drake - x5
Darkest Dungeon Content - x5
Spyro the Dragon - x3
Tracer - x3
Chell - x3

I should, uh, probably invest in a better computer one day...

You listed Octoling twice

and assuming the x5 are new that should be added to Octoling’s existing x35 to make it x40

 

[amageish]

Uhhh, maybe I'm just going crazy or am blind but I don't see Bill\Lance on the noms list?

or did the Contra discussion already happen due to get a huge surge in noms and I somehow missed all this?

The Contra discussion hasn't happened yet, but it is locked in the current schedule. In fact, it will be the next discussion after Elma. So, you had perfect timing in checking the thread right now!

You listed Octoling twice

and assuming the x5 are new that should be added to Octoling’s existing x35 to make it x40

Yeah, you're right, fixed it now.

 

[Gengar84]

Yes, and an alternate XCX artwork that’s not the one used for her spirit

also, what would her taunts and victory screens be? As for the boxing ring title it’ll 100% be “Full Metal Jaguar”

Do you think Elma should have Tatsu show up in any of her taunts like Morgan’s does for Joker and Rex does for Pyra and Mythra? Maybe he can show up and cheer for Elma then she could make a joke about eating him and scare him off lol. That could probably work well as a victory taunt actually.

I thought I’d also share this cover of Uncontrollable that I really enjoy by Tsuko G and Adrisaurus. I’m not sure if anyone here has heard it yet.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

 

[SharkLord]

Alright, that's enough time. Let's shift over ahemtoday , before I forget

 

[ahemtoday]

You got it, boss!

Spoiler

Gengar84 x25 (30 Total)
Paraster x10 (15 Total)
Rie Sonomura x40 (45 Total)
GolisoPower x20 (25 Total)
amageish x5 (10 Total)
ahemtoday x5 (10 Total)
SharkLord x5 (10 Total)
Cutie Gwen x5 (10 Total)
ZelDan x5 (10 Total)
Perkilator x5 (10 Total)
Flyboy x5 (10 Total)

 

[Perkilator]

Noms:
Sakura Shinguji x10