Character Exploration Thread - Day 79: Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)

[Paraster]

Noms: Rivals of Aether x15

 

[Gengar84]

Noms:
x30 Illidan Stormrage

 

[GolisoPower]

Noms:
Aether/Lumine x15
Geolyte x10

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Noms:
Ori x5
Gunvolt x5
Darkest Dungeon Content x5
Trauma Center Content x5
Octoling xTheRemaining

 

[Eldrake]

Contra is infamous for its sheer difficulty and how brutal it can get, and that's exactly why it's a joy for me to play. I feel like Bill Rizer would be heavy on projectiles but lightweight as a tradeoff. I was also imagining a possible character mechanic where he can keep firing on even while jumping, but I am not entirely certain how it'd work out in practice.

 

[SharkLord]

Contra is infamous for its sheer difficulty and how brutal it can get, and that's exactly why it's a joy for me to play. I feel like Bill Rizer would be heavy on projectiles but lightweight as a tradeoff. I was also imagining a possible character mechanic where he can keep firing on even while jumping, but I am not entirely certain how it'd work out in practice.

Perhaps it could just be like Steve's jab? Hold the button to keep attacking, attack when moving. That sort of thing.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I was also imagining a possible character mechanic where he can keep firing on even while jumping, but I am not entirely certain how it'd work out in practice.

I imagine it would work out like being in front of him was like being poisoned.

 

[Eldrake]

I believe we can all agree that if we got Contra content, the soundtrack has to include this one.

 

[GolisoPower]

So, Contra. Up there with Ryu Hayabusa as one of the best-ever candidates from the NES era of video games. And for exceptionally good reason, too!

I can definitely see his Jab combining Mega Man's run-and-gun Jab with Kazuya's diagonal tilts to emulate Contra to a T. As for the stage, well, for most gamers, the first stage of the NES game (Jungle) is always the one you'll majorly see thanks to its difficulty.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I always thought it was Bill Rizer

 

[Eldrake]

I always thought it was Bill Rizer

It is, it's just a typo in the thread title.

 

[pupNapoleon]

It is, it's just a typo in the thread title.

Ah.... then um.... why is it still there after 64 pages?

 

[Eldrake]

Ah.... then um.... why is it still there after 64 pages?

I am not sure what you mean. OP edits the thread title whenever there's a new character to discuss, like right now.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I am not sure what you mean. OP edits the thread title whenever there's a new character to discuss, like right now.

Why did the OP leave a typo in the title of this thread?

 

[Golden Icarus]

Oh yeah baby! That’s three characters in a row that I’m super into.

I’m curious - how does everyone feel about Lance Bean? The co-op in Contra is one of its’ staples and Lance is just as much a face of the series as Bill. Do you think that it would feel right to have Bill without him? Ideally, I’d love for Lance to be an echo. Really, something like Richter where it’s just a few unique taunts/animations would be enough for me. I don’t think it would be necessary to differentiate them all that much. That said, I personally wouldn’t want Lance to be an alt costume. I just find it a little tacky when they make an entirely different character a skin.

Edit: Yo, 1000th post! Took long enough.

 

[Eldrake]

Why did the OP leave a typo in the title of this thread?

There's no deep mystery to it. He made a typo, a common human mistake, while editing the thread's title to make it clear that this day is Bill Rizer discussion, and that's it.

Oh yeah baby! That’s three characters in a row that I’m super into.

I’m curious - how does everyone feel about Lance Bean? The co-op in Contra is one of its’ staples and Lance is just as much a face of the series as Bill. Do you think that it would feel right to have Bill without him? Ideally, I’d love for Lance to be an echo. Really, something like Richter where it’s just a few unique taunts/animations would be enough for me. I don’t think it would be necessary to differentiate them all that much. That said, I personally wouldn’t want Lance to be an alt costume. I just find it a little tacky when they make an entirely different character a skin.

It wouldn't feel right if Lance Bean wasn't an echo or at the very least an alt character for Bill Rizer, so I can agree with you about Lance.

 

[Gengar84]

Contra has always had a special place in my childhood. It was the only game I've ever played with my mother. We were able to beat it using the Konami code. It must have left an impression on her as well since she still remembers the code even though that was over 30 years ago.

Lance would almost definitely be an alternate outfit for Bill. The two play exactly the same in Contra so he makes perfect sense for outfits 5-8.

As far as a moveset, I've always struggled to come up with something that felt authentic, yet still fit Smash well. My original idea was to have several attacks utilize different guns, like his forward smash was the Crush gun and the up smash was the Spread gun. Recently, my brother came up with an idea that I love a lot that would be perfect. If you've ever played Contra, you know the capsules that fly across the screen that contain different power ups. His idea is that these could fly across the stage similar to Smash balls whenever someone is playing as Bill. Only Bill could interact with these and if he shoots them down, it would drop a powerup that would change his gun. Like Mega Man, his jab and forward tilt would be his gun, although Bill would also use his gun for up and down tilts and would be able to shoot in 8 directions while moving around. The powerups he collects would change his tilts and jab to the new gun until Bill loses a stock or collects a different power up. In order to ensure that he isn't overly reliant on these powerups to be a good character, his default gun would still be very useful and the powerups would just allow him to be useful in other ways. With that out of the way, let me try my hand at a complete moveset.

Spoiler

Gimmick - Weapon switching system, listed above. These are the different guns he can utilize based on Contra III:

Machine Gun - Bill's default gun. This has great speed and range but causes no knockback. This is very similar to Fox's laser
Crush Gun - A powerful missile launcher with a shorter range and large end lag. Similar to Samus' smash forward special
Homing Gun - Weaker homing missiles that shoot a bit faster similar to Samus' weak forward special
Spread Gun - A gun similar to a shotgun that shoots in a wide range of five bullets per shot but can't travel as far horizontally
Laser Gun - A very powerful short range gun that shoots a laser beam
Fire Gun - A flamethrower that acts in much the same way as Bowser's fire breath. Very powerful gradual damage but poor range.

Weak Attacks

Neutral A - Similar to Mega Man's blaster, Bill shoots straight forward with whatever gun he has equipped

Forward Tilt - Again, like Mega Man's blaster, Bill shoots straight forward while walking forward

Up Tilt - Bill shoots his gun directly upwards. Bill can also shoot diagonally in a 45 degree angle by tilting the stick diagonally and can move while doing so.

Down Tilt - Bill lies down on the ground and shoots straight forward. He also has a diagonal tilt that he can use while moving

Running attack - Bill performs a shoulder tackle similar to Samus

Smash Attacks

Forward Smash - Bill slashes twice with his combat knife

Up Smash - Bill attacks with the end of his gun similar to Samus' counterattack in Samus Returns

Down Smash - Bill thrusts his combat knife downward

Special Attacks

Neutral Special - Bill throws a grenade. This is pretty similar to Snake's move (not sure how to differentiate it).

Up Special - Bill performs a spin jump and shoots his gun in all directions in a spiral. This is an attack from Contra III.

Forward Special - Bill rides his motorcycle similar to Wario. Unlike Wario, he can shoot his gun while riding it.

Down Special - Bill surrounds himself in a force field and reflects all projectiles similar to Fox's reflector.

Aerial Attacks

Like his ground tilts, Bill uses his equipped gun to shoot in up to 8 directions

Final Smash - Helio Bomb - This is a powerful, screen clearing bomb from Contra III. This is essentially a larger and more powerful Starfox Bomb.

How is that? I just came up with that now so it doesn't have the usual polish that some of my previous sets have had but I'm really happy with it and I think it represents him well.

 

[ZelDan]

So while I'm the one that brought up Bill/Lance for this thread in the first place (IIRC anyways), I always thought it would be cool if we saw other characters make it in as alts and could maybe have a Hero or Bowser Jr. situation, or maybe it'd be more apt to call it a Simon/Richter situation since I figured if characters from other Contra games made it as alts, maybe they and Bill/lance could share their moves/weapons with eachother in one moveset.

Some alts that I think could make for a neat reference are the probotectors (robotic versions of Contra characters added to European versions of the earlier games for censorship reasons basically)

It'd also be cool if we could get Ray and Sheena from Contra: Hard Corps, my favorite of the Contra games (I don't think making them alts would be too problematic?):

Hell, go ahead and add their Probotector versions too:

Boom, 8 character alts. 4 human, 4 robot.

And while I'm at it I'll go ahead and post some Contra music that'd be great to see added:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

 

[SharkLord]

It seems like alts are a fairly popular topic. I'm not overly familiar with Contra and the plotlines, so do the characters usually have a lot of differences or are they mostly aesthetic?

 

[Eldrake]

It seems like alts are a fairly popular topic. I'm not overly familiar with Contra and the plotlines, so do the characters usually have a lot of differences or are they mostly aesthetic?

I think there may have been one or two games where they've had at least one minor gameplay difference, but otherwise no, it's mostly aesthetic and palette swaps.

 

[ZelDan]

It seems like alts are a fairly popular topic. I'm not overly familiar with Contra and the plotlines, so do the characters usually have a lot of differences or are they mostly aesthetic?

Well, Hard Corps does have some different weapons from the classic games, Ray and Sheena use different weapons from eachother, and hard Corps does add a slide manuever.

That said all characters run and gun the same and jump/climb the same, and giving Bill/lance slide abilities wouldn't be any worse than giving Simon Richter's abilities, so I think it'd overall be fine.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I haven't played Contra in forever. But I do love the run and gun gameplay. I think having him as a rushdown character with some spread weapons might work fine as a concept. So mostly focused on pinpoint weapons, but with a few spread weapons to make him more diverse/balanced. Not a one-trick pony, etc.

...I really never tried to think of a moveset for the overall rushdown character, so. ._.;

 

[pupNapoleon]

There's no deep mystery to it. He made a typo, a common human mistake, while editing the thread's title to make it clear that this day is Bill Rizer discussion, and that's it.

Which brings me back to what I started off stating.... why, after 64 pages and several years, is a typo still not edited?

 

[Gengar84]

I also made a stage in Stage Builder based on the first stage of Contra III that I might as well share here.

There is a fire pillar that rises up from the lava in between the stone columns just like in the games:

​

Here you can see it as the fire pillar is down:

​

For anyone interested in trying the stage out for themselves, here is the code: LMS3H8QQ

 

[Eldrake]

Which brings me back to what I started off stating.... why, after 64 pages and several years, is a typo still not edited?

...because the Character Exploration Thread only started talked about Bill Rizer today?
This thread is also only two months old by the way.

 

[pupNapoleon]

...because the Character Exploration Thread only started talked about Bill Rizer today?
This thread is also only two months old by the way.

OHHH my bad. I misread which page this was :D

 

[ZelDan]

I also made a stage in Stage Builder based on the first stage of Contra III that I might as well share here.

There is a fire pillar that rises up from the lava in between the stone columns just like in the games:

View attachment 322751
​

Here you can see it as the fire pillar is down:

View attachment 322752
​

For anyone interested in trying the stage out for themselves, here is the code: LMS3H8QQ

yeah, I always figured Contra III's first stage would be a perfect stage for Contra. I could see it being just the destroyed city part first, maybe with walls on both sides that shoot at opponents (and both walls are destructible), and midway through the match the plane could come and drop bombs to make the stage turn into the fiery part of the level. Then of course at some point the level magically returns back to its original state, rinse and repeat.

 

[DanganZilla5]

I adore Contra. It's one of my favorite NES and SNES series and It's one of those series where I'm interested in tracking down as many of the games that I don't have as I can get (Soul Calibur will come first though). Right now I have the legacy collection on Switch, Rogue Corps, and Contra 4. I think the games are fantastic and the music is just plain awesome.

I know Smash trailers tend to be suspenseful but what if for Bill Rizer's trailer they show the Smash symbol and then you hear the little main menu jingle from the first game? That would be hype. I also had a different idea for a trailer. Basically it's a sequel to Hero's trailer where the 4 heroes are surrounded by the possessed Smash fighters but then some guy runs throughout the battlefield shooting away at the enemies and doing things like flipping in the air while shooting. You would only see glimpses of the fighter like their silhouette and boots. Finally, the guy stops. The camera then shows his boots and it tilts up as the guy turns around to reveal that he is Bill Rizer. "Bill Rizer Shoots Up a Storm!" Then the Jungle theme plays while showing off his badass gameplay.

God, just thinking about Contra in Smash gets me pumped. It has to happen someday.

 

[Eldrake]

I adore Contra. It's one of my favorite NES and SNES series and It's one of those series where I'm interested in tracking down as many of the games that I don't have as I can get (Soul Calibur will come first though). Right now I have the legacy collection on Switch, Rogue Corps, and Contra 4. I think the games are fantastic and the music is just plain awesome.

I know Smash trailers tend to be suspenseful but what if for Bill Rizer's trailer they show the Smash symbol and then you hear the little main menu jingle from the first game? That would be hype. I also had a different idea for a trailer. Basically it's a sequel to Hero's trailer where the 4 heroes are surrounded by the possessed Smash fighters but then some guy runs throughout the battlefield shooting away at the enemies and doing things like flipping in the air while shooting. You would only see glimpses of the fighter like their silhouette and boots. Finally, the guy stops. The camera then shows his boots and it tilts up as the guy turns around to reveal that he is Bill Rizer. "Bill Rizer Shoots Up a Storm!" Then the Jungle theme plays while showing off his badass gameplay.

God, just thinking about Contra in Smash gets me pumped. It has to happen someday.

I actually wonder if Sakurai would take cues from Predator should he ever get to direct a Bill Rizer trailer. Smash characters stranded in a thick and humid jungle surrounded by contra enemies, but ultimately saved by Bill Rizer. I know that Contra's alien designs can get quite visceral and disturbing and thus not quite appropriate for good boys and girls, but I think it could work out.

 

[Gengar84]

Do you guys think they should stick to Bill and Lance’s classic NES and SNES designs for Smash or incorporate elements from their more modern designs? Personally, I think they should do what they did for Simon and make a modernized version of their original appearances.

 

[DanganZilla5]

Do you guys think they should stick to Bill and Lance’s classic NES and SNES designs for Smash or incorporate elements from their more modern designs? Personally, I think they should do what they did for Simon and make a modernized version of their original appearances.

Knowing Sakurai they would most likely get the Belmont treatment. He tends to stick with classic designs from what I've noticed.

 

[Gengar84]

As much as I love Contra and Bill and Lance are among my most wanted characters, I’ve only actually ever played the first three games in the series (Contra, Super C, and Contra III). Because of that, all my knowledge of the games pretty much ends there. I don’t actually know anything about any of the other playable characters besides Bill and Lance. What else could the more modern games bring into Smash?

 

[GolisoPower]

Interesting question to think about: how would we implement Contra's power-ups? Would it be as an item, or as some Specials?

 

[amageish]

Do you guys think they should stick to Bill and Lance’s classic NES and SNES designs for Smash or incorporate elements from their more modern designs? Personally, I think they should do what they did for Simon and make a modernized version of their original appearances.

I think you gotta just 3D-ify the SNES sprites for this one. I'd say you could just do both, but the modern Contra IP games are... not... particularly popular, among the fans and among critics...

Interesting question to think about: how would we implement Contra's power-ups? Would it be as an item, or as some Specials?

That is an interesting question! Some part of me wants to embrace chaos and have some sort of mechanic where you can temporarily gain different power-ups while playing, but that also sounds like "How to Overcomplicate a Moveset 101"... It could be fun though!

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’m curious - how does everyone feel about Lance Bean?

Half Bill's alts should be Lance. Just like with Alph.

It seems like alts are a fairly popular topic. I'm not overly familiar with Contra and the plotlines, so do the characters usually have a lot of differences or are they mostly aesthetic?

Bill and Lance play identically in pretty much every game.

yeah, I always figured Contra III's first stage would be a perfect stage for Contra.

No. The perfect Smash stage is Contra III stage 4.

I actually wonder if Sakurai would take cues from Predator should he ever get to direct a Bill Rizer trailer.

Spoiler: NSFW Language

Do you guys think they should stick to Bill and Lance’s classic NES and SNES designs for Smash or incorporate elements from their more modern designs? Personally, I think they should do what they did for Simon and make a modernized version of their original appearances.

Hoping for this, minus the cigar.

Interesting question to think about: how would we implement Contra's power-ups? Would it be as an item, or as some Specials?

The item pods will just be part of their stage. Like the candles in the CV stage.

 

[ZelDan]

One thing I haven't seen brought up is the Konami Code, which was popularized thanks to Contra.

I don't think it could necessarily be implemented into the moveset in a way that wouldn't be obtuse and/or OP, but one thing that could be cool (that I don't think Sakurai would do but this is hypothetical so who cares) is if they added the Konami code as a secret code when you buy the Contra pack, and anytime you input the code on the home screen, it instantly puts you into a Smash battle as Bill Rizer against Snake, Simon, and Richter on whatever the Contra stage is, every character has 30 stocks, and the only items are Konami related ones. So Death's scythe, the Konami ATs (Bomberman, Alucard, slashy dude from MGS) and...those are the only Konami-related items I think?

If anyone has any other interesting ideas or ways it could maybe work in Bill's moveset, I'm interested to know.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Inputting the Konami code on the Contra stage plays Totaka's song.

 

[Gengar84]

Interesting question to think about: how would we implement Contra's power-ups? Would it be as an item, or as some Specials?

I don’t know if anyone has had the chance to look at my opening post for Bill Rizer. In it, I shared an idea my brother came up with to use the item pods as part of Bill’s move set. I’d love some feedback on it because I think it’s a really interesting idea.

As far as the Konami code goes, I’ve got two ideas. The first is that Bill/Lance could have a special taunt that could be activated by putting in the code. The second is that if you put the code in as Bill/Lance on any stage, it would change the music to the Contra 1 Jungle theme.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

 

[Eldrake]

What if Bill/Lance's Konami code taunt gave them 99 stocks, but it's just purely visual and all of that evaporates as soon as they lose or gain a stock?

 

[amageish]

You know what else has a bunch of small parts that need to be slowly chipped away at? The noms list!

Spoiler: The Noms List

50+ noms
Astral Chain rep - x110
Illidan Stormrage - x90
Zoe* - x85
Aether/Lumine/The-Traveler (Genshin Impact MC) - x80
Hat Kid - x80
Filia (Skullgirls) - x70
Hearthstone Innkeeper - x65
Laharl - x65
Octoling - x65
Black Mage - x60
Axel Stone - x60
Heavy - x60
Saber - x55
Chibi-Robo - x55
Sakura Shinguji - x55

26-50 noms
Bubsy - x50
Isaac (Golden Sun) - x50
Ichiban - x50
Ryza - x45
Estelle Bright - x45
Endo Mamoru - x45
Madeleine - x40
Gordon Freeman - x40
2B - x40
Shovel Knight - x35
Wilfre* - x30
Wadanohara* - x30
Zero Escape Rep - x30
Sly Cooper - x28
Trauma Center Content - x27

11-25 noms
Rivals of Aether rep - x25
Chun-Li - x25
Klonoa - x25
Master Hand - x20
Mega Man X - x20
Morrigan - x20
Geolyte (Meteos) - x15
Meowth - x15
Brian - x15
Ori - x15

5-10 noms
Rintarou Okabe - x10
Daitoryo - x10
Gunvolt - x10
Darkest Dungeon Content - x10
Frogger - x5
Jonesy - x5
Ezio - x5
9-volt - x5
Nathan Drake - x5
Spyro the Dragon - x3
Tracer - x3
Chell - x3

Yeah, uh, I didn't know how to do any good wordplay this time... Also, remember to use your noms! A lot of people haven't done that today...