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Character Exploration Thread - Day 79: Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)

Technomage

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
2,289
I place 10 votes on Freddy.

Moving onto Zegram discussion, after checking his Rogue Galaxy article and his list of weapons, it doesn't seem like he uses any futuristic weapons like lightsabers or vibroblades, and instead uses mundane and enchanted weapons; what's up with that?
 
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Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,609
Why should we add Zegram over the main character, Jaster?

Nominations: Agumon x10
I’ll admit, this one is mostly because of my personal preference but Zegram does have his own merits. While Zegram isn’t the main character of his game, I believe he fits the pirate theme of the game better than the protagonist Jaster Rogue. He is also my personal favorite video game character of all time so that goes a long way. It doesn’t hurt that he also happens to be voiced by one of my favorite voice actors ever in Steve Blum. I have nothing against Jaster and I think he is a pretty cool protagonist, but he is simply outclassed in my eyes.
 
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chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,385
I’ll admit, this one is mostly because of my personal preference but Zegram does have his own merits. While Zegram isn’t the main character of his game, I believe he fits the pirate theme of the game better than the protagonist Jaster Rogue. He is also my personal favorite video game character of all time so that goes a long way. It doesn’t hurt that he also happens to be voiced by one of my favorite voice actors ever in Steve Blum. I have nothing against Jaster and I think he is a pretty cool protagonist, but he is simply outclassed in my eyes.
I suppose that's fair, though I'll admit, I'm one of those people who thinks the protagonist should take priority whenever a new game/series is added to Smash. Just makes the most sense to me, y'know?

Anyway, somewhat similar question: why should we get a Rogue Galaxy rep before one of Level-5's other IPs, like Professor Layton or Yo-kai Watch?
 

GolisoPower

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
4,397
Never played this game in my life, but this guy looks good enough. I wonder how he'd play, TBH...

Noms: Pyramid Head x5
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
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Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
I made an entire moveset for Zegram in my support thread. I’ll be able to share in about an hour when I get out of work. I have a lot to say about this guy.
When you share the moveset, can you include any and all things the character can do that were left out alongside game mechanics from the source material? All I know about Dark Cloud is it's half Minecraft simulator and how it was hyped up as a Zelda killer by US marketing so saying it's like Dark Cloud sadly doesn't help
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,609
When you share the moveset, can you include any and all things the character can do that were left out alongside game mechanics from the source material? All I know about Dark Cloud is it's half Minecraft simulator and how it was hyped up as a Zelda killer by US marketing so saying it's like Dark Cloud sadly doesn't help
Sure, that’s not a problem. I was planning on doing that already.
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
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When you share the moveset, can you include any and all things the character can do that were left out alongside game mechanics from the source material? All I know about Dark Cloud is it's half Minecraft simulator and how it was hyped up as a Zelda killer by US marketing so saying it's like Dark Cloud sadly doesn't help
I can’t help but question Level-5’s marketing choices... Yo-Kai Watch’s ad campaign wasn’t much better with the whole “Pokémon killer” stuff
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,609
Rogue Galaxy Combat System Basics

Alright, let’s start by going over the basics of Rogue Galaxy’s (and by extension, Dark Cloud’s) combat system. For starters, Rogue Galaxy is an action RPG that uses a cooldown system similar to some Tales games. After so many actions, your character has to recharge before they can act again. Shielding cuts this wait time in half and if you are hit while shielding, you can immediately act again. Every character in Rogue Galaxy has two weapons, a main weapon and a sub weapon. In most cases, this translates to a melee and a ranged weapon but there are exceptions. Zegram, for example uses a giant cutlass as well as a shuriken. For melee attacks, each character has a combination they are able to use by repeatedly pressing the attack button, but you can hold the button to perform a spinning charge attack that can break enemies with shields that are otherwise immune to damage beforehand.

Each character also has a variety of skills they can use that do various things from buffing the team to dealing massive damage to the entire enemy team. Many of these skills can tend to be a little overpowered honestly. One interesting thing about Rogue Galaxy is that there are some mechanics that force you to have to play around before you can just start spamming your strongest skills. Some enemies, for example, force you to have to perform a charge attack before they can be damaged. For others, you have to jump on their heads, some are immune to damage unless you hit them in a certain spot (like jumping to hit their head), and others have barriers that have to be broken with a specific weapon from Jaster before you can damage them.

Each character has three special combination attacks called Burning Strikes that range from 5 to 9 hit combos depending on the level. You build up a gauge by collecting orbs as you hit enemies. When it charges up fully, you can perform the Burning Strike attack. These transport you to a quicktime event that asks you to perform button combos for each hit. Finally, several characters have double and triple team techniques with other characters which are the most powerful attacks in the game.


Zegram's Skills

So what can Zegram do specifically in Rogue Galaxy? Here is a list of his skills and what they do in the game:

Fire Sword - Infuses the sword with the power of flames, increasing its attack power. Continuous/ Unblockable/ Guard Break/ Fire.
Parry - Uses a warrior's wisdom to increase the enemy evasion rate. Continuous.
Drunken Burst - The power of grog increases all allies' attack power! Instant.
Lightning - Calls down violent lightning bolts to attack all enemies. Instant/ Electric.
Twin Sword - Unleashes the legendary twin-sword technique. Twice the swords, twice the attack power! Continuous/ Ice/ Wind/ Daze
Death Break - Sends enemies to their deaths with a cursed sword dance. Instant/ Electric/ Holy.
Inferno Vortex – Zegram and Simon’s wind and fire combination attack. Instant/ Fire/ Wind.
Gates of Hell – Zegram, Jaster, and Lilika’s ultimate combination attack. Instant/ Wind/ Holy.
Burning Strike - Enables activation of 5/7/9-hit Burning Strike attacks.


Zegram's Burning Strike attacks are showcased in this video (starting at 1:28). For this moveset, I'm going with the first combo.:


Completed Smash Moveset

Finally, how can this all translate to a Smash moveset?

General Play Style and Gimmicks

Zegram is a slower, more powerful sword user compared to most of the cast. His power and attributes would be very similar to Ike. Like Ike, Zegram also uses a huge sword with only one hand. The biggest thing separating himself from Ike is the fact that he has a stronger focus on projectiles and area attacks.

In Rogue Galaxy, Zegram has several skills that temporarily buff either himself or his teammates. These include Drunken Burst, which raises his team’s attack power, Parry, which increases evasion, Fire Sword which temporarily infuses his sword in flames, and Twin Sword , which spawns a secondary sword adding a second hit to all his attacks. I think the most interesting one here is Twin Sword. In Smash, this will be represented as a temporary powered up state akin to Joker’s Arsene. This will only apply to Zegram’s A moves and his specials will be unaffected.


Weak Attacks

Neutral - Zegram Attacks with four quick horizontal slashes followed by a stronger spinning slash. If the A button is held instead, Zegram charges up and performs a single stronger spinning leaping downward slash. This is a great shield breaking move. This represents both Zegram’s basic combination attack in Rogue Galaxy as well as his charge up shield breaking move.

Forward tilt - This one is very similar to Ike’s forward tilt. A slightly overhead, downward angled horizontal slash.

Up tilt -Zegram thrusts his sword directly upward similar to Marth’s up smash.

Down tilt - Zegram performs a quick downward stab into the ground. This represents Zegram’s normal attack on downed enemies in Rogue Galaxy.


Smash attacks

Forward smash – Fire Sword – When Twin Sword isn’t active, this attack is similar to Ike’s forward smash but infused in flames. When Twin Sword is active, Zegram slashes forward in an X pattern with two swords.

Up smash –Fire Sword – Zegram infuses his sword in flames and thrusts his sword upward in a sweeping motion. The animation for this attack would look a lot like Cloud’s up smash.

Down smash – Death Break – Zegram carves a spell circle in the ground with his sword and stabs the ground dealing considerable damage to a fairly wide range. This attack has a fairly long startup but the damage and knockback is very strong.


Specials

Neutral special – Shuriken - Zegram throws a shuriken that travels in a straight line in the direction the opponent was at the time of throwing it up to 45 degrees upward or downward. This is about the speed and power of Falco’s blaster. After throwing a set number of these, there is a cooldown before he can throw another. The cooldown can be greatly reduced by shielding. This represents Zegram’s standard ranged attack in Rogue Galaxy.

Up special – Inferno Vortex - Zegram summons a flaming tornado that damages enemies traps them in it while propelling Zegram upwards

Forward special – Burning Strike – A 5 hit combination attack in the same vein as Marth’s forward B chain. The first strike is a downward overhead slash. The second is a powerful upward slash. The third is a sweeping horizontal slash. The fourth strike is another powerful upward slash. For the final strike, he throws a flaming shuriken that drags the enemy upward in an arc as the shuriken turns into a flaming phoenix. This would be a slower but more powerful attack compared to Marth’s chain.

Down special – Lightning – Zegram thrusts his sword in the air and summons a lightning storm that damage enemies in range. Unlike Pikachu’s thunder, Zegram’s Lighting is a fairly weak move that hits a wider range. Although it does mild damage, it does stun all enemies struck by the lighting similar to Zero Suit Samus’ blaster.


Running Attack

Running attack - This one is kind of similar to Link’s running attack where Zegram performs a strong leaping strike.

Aerial attacks

Neutral air - Zegram Performs two horizontal slashes followed by an overhead downward slash. This is his aerial combo from Rogue Galaxy.

Forward air - This one is pretty similar to Ike’s forward air. Zegram performs a slow powerful overhead slash with two hands.

Up air - Zegram performs an arching overhead slash. This is a lot like Ike’s up air but with an additional fire element.

Down air - Zegram stabs his sword downward, which can spike.


Throws

Pummel - The standard knee strikes most characters have work well here.

Forward throw - This is a cargo throw similar to Donkey Kong. He lifts his opponent over his head with both hands and can move around with them before tossing them. This represents Rogue Galaxy’s toss mechanic.

Up throw - Zegram tosses his opponent upwards and follows up by tossing two shurikens at him or her.

Back throw - Zegram tosses his opponent backwards.

Down throw - Zegram slams his opponent into the ground then stabs them with his sword.


Final Smash

Gates of Hell – This is based on Zegram’s ultimate triple team attack from Rogue Galaxy which he performs with the protagonist, Jaster Rogue and one of their partners, Lilika. To initiate the attack, Zegram thrusts his sword in a sweeping motion and anyone caught in range is teleported to a cutscene. Here, Jaster carves a spell circle in the ground while Lilika uses it to summon a huge otherworldly gate from the ground. Zegram slices the gate open with his sword and releases a huge wave of cursed energy which deals massive damage to anyone caught in the initial activation.

Another option for Zegram’s final smash is Jaster’s triple tech, Supernova, that he performs with Zegram and Kisala. In this move, all three dash into the sky and form a giant laser beam with their swords that explodes the planet. Even though this isn’t Zegram’s move specifically, it does feature him as well as the main heroine, Kisala, rather than Lilika, who is more of a side character.


Taunts

Taunt 1 - Zegram points his sword forward and then makes the “bring it on” motion with his hand as he says “Come on, try me!”. This is he animation for his Parry skill.

Taunt 2 - Zegram takes a drink from his gourd, wipes his mouth, and hiccups. This is the animation from the first part of his Drunken Burst skill.

Taunt 3 - Zegram temporarily infuses his sword in flames as he says “This is gonna hurt!”. This is the animation from his Flame Sword skill with the quote from his Death Break skill.


Victory quotes

“Don’t ever try to show off in front of me you damn beast.”

“Huh, why did they even bother jumping us?”

“Let’s just leave it at that for now.”

“What a waste of time!”

“Was that it?”
 
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Pillow

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
1,268
Location
Los Angeles
Rogue Galaxy Combat System Basics

Alright, let’s start by going over the basics of Rogue Galaxy’s (and by extension, Dark Cloud’s) combat system. For starters, Rogue Galaxy is an action RPG that uses a cooldown system similar to some Tales games. After so many actions, your character has to recharge before they can act again. Shielding cuts this wait time in half and if you are hit while shielding, you can immediately act again. Every character in Rogue Galaxy has two weapons, a main weapon and a sub weapon. In most cases, this translates to a melee and a ranged weapon but there are exceptions. Zegram, for example uses a giant cutlass as well as a shuriken. For melee attacks, each character has a combination they are able to use by repeatedly pressing the attack button, but you can hold the button to perform a spinning charge attack that can break enemies with shields that are otherwise immune to damage beforehand.

Each character also has a variety of skills they can use that do various things from buffing the team to dealing massive damage to the entire enemy team. Many of these skills can tend to be a little overpowered honestly. One interesting thing about Rogue Galaxy is that there are some mechanics that force you to have to play around before you can just start spamming your strongest skills. Some enemies, for example, force you to have to perform a charge attack before they can be damaged. For others, you have to jump on their heads, some are immune to damage unless you hit them in a certain spot (like jumping to hit their head), and others have barriers that have to be broken with a specific weapon from Jaster before you can damage them.

Each character has three special combination attacks called Burning Strikes that range from 5 to 9 hit combos depending on the level. You build up a gauge by collecting orbs as you hit enemies. When it charges up fully, you can perform the Burning Strike attack. These transport you to a quicktime event that asks you to perform button combos for each hit. Finally, several characters have double and triple team techniques with other characters which are the most powerful attacks in the game.


Zegram's Skills

So what can Zegram do specifically in Rogue Galaxy? Here is a list of his skills and what they do in the game:

Fire Sword - Infuses the sword with the power of flames, increasing its attack power. Continuous/ Unblockable/ Guard Break/ Fire.
Parry - Uses a warrior's wisdom to increase the enemy evasion rate. Continuous.
Drunken Burst - The power of grog increases all allies' attack power! Instant.
Lightning - Calls down violent lightning bolts to attack all enemies. Instant/ Electric.
Twin Sword - Unleashes the legendary twin-sword technique. Twice the swords, twice the attack power! Continuous/ Ice/ Wind/ Daze
Death Break - Sends enemies to their deaths with a cursed sword dance. Instant/ Electric/ Holy.
Inferno Vortex – Zegram and Simon’s wind and fire combination attack. Instant/ Fire/ Wind.
Gates of Hell – Zegram, Jaster, and Lilika’s ultimate combination attack. Instant/ Wind/ Holy.
Burning Strike - Enables activation of 5/7/9-hit Burning Strike attacks.


Zegram's Burning Strike attacks are showcased in this video (starting at 1:28). For this moveset, I'm going with the first combo.:


Completed Smash Moveset

Finally, how can this all translate to a Smash moveset?

General Play Style and Gimmicks

Zegram is a slower, more powerful sword user compared to most of the cast. His power and attributes would be very similar to Ike. Like Ike, Zegram also uses a huge sword with only one hand. The biggest thing separating himself from Ike is the fact that he has a stronger focus on projectiles and area attacks.

In Rogue Galaxy, Zegram has several skills that temporarily buff either himself or his teammates. These include Drunken Burst, which raises his team’s attack power, Parry, which increases evasion, Fire Sword which temporarily infuses his sword in flames, and Twin Sword , which spawns a secondary sword adding a second hit to all his attacks. I think the most interesting one here is Twin Sword. In Smash, this will be represented as a temporary powered up state akin to Joker’s Arsene. This will only apply to Zegram’s A moves and his specials will be unaffected.


Weak Attacks

Neutral - Zegram Attacks with four quick horizontal slashes followed by a stronger spinning slash. If the A button is held instead, Zegram charges up and performs a single stronger spinning leaping downward slash. This is a great shield breaking move. This represents both Zegram’s basic combination attack in Rogue Galaxy as well as his charge up shield breaking move.

Forward tilt - This one is very similar to Ike’s forward tilt. A slightly overhead, downward angled horizontal slash.

Up tilt -Zegram thrusts his sword directly upward similar to Marth’s up smash.

Down tilt - Zegram performs a quick downward stab into the ground. This represents Zegram’s normal attack on downed enemies in Rogue Galaxy.


Smash attacks

Forward smash – Fire Sword – When Twin Sword isn’t active, this attack is similar to Ike’s forward smash but infused in flames. When Twin Sword is active, Zegram slashes forward in an X pattern with two swords.

Up smash –Fire Sword – Zegram infuses his sword in flames and thrusts his sword upward in a sweeping motion. The animation for this attack would look a lot like Cloud’s up smash.

Down smash – Death Break – Zegram carves a spell circle in the ground with his sword and stabs the ground dealing considerable damage to a fairly wide range. This attack has a fairly long startup but the damage and knockback is very strong.


Specials

Neutral special – Shuriken - Zegram throws a shuriken that travels in a straight line in the direction the opponent was at the time of throwing it up to 45 degrees upward or downward. This is about the speed and power of Falco’s blaster. After throwing a set number of these, there is a cooldown before he can throw another. The cooldown can be greatly reduced by shielding. This represents Zegram’s standard ranged attack in Rogue Galaxy.

Up special – Inferno Vortex - Zegram summons a flaming tornado that damages enemies traps them in it while propelling Zegram upwards

Forward special – Burning Strike – A 5 hit combination attack in the same vein as Marth’s forward B chain. The first strike is a downward overhead slash. The second is a powerful upward slash. The third is a sweeping horizontal slash. The fourth strike is another powerful upward slash. For the final strike, he throws a flaming shuriken that drags the enemy upward in an arc as the shuriken turns into a flaming phoenix. This would be a slower but more powerful attack compared to Marth’s chain.

Down special – Lightning – Zegram thrusts his sword in the air and summons a lightning storm that damage enemies in range. Unlike Pikachu’s thunder, Zegram’s Lighting is a fairly weak move that hits a wider range. Although it does mild damage, it does stun all enemies struck by the lighting similar to Zero Suit Samus’ blaster.


Running Attack

Running attack - This one is kind of similar to Link’s running attack where Zegram performs a strong leaping strike.

Aerial attacks

Neutral air - Zegram Performs two horizontal slashes followed by an overhead downward slash. This is his aerial combo from Rogue Galaxy.

Forward air - This one is pretty similar to Ike’s forward air. Zegram performs a slow powerful overhead slash with two hands.

Up air - Zegram performs an arching overhead slash. This is a lot like Ike’s up air but with an additional fire element.

Down air - Zegram stabs his sword downward, which can spike.


Throws

Pummel - The standard knee strikes most characters have work well here.

Forward throw - This is a cargo throw similar to Donkey Kong. He lifts his opponent over his head with both hands and can move around with them before tossing them. This represents Rogue Galaxy’s toss mechanic.

Up throw - Zegram tosses his opponent upwards and follows up by tossing two shurikens at him or her.

Back throw - Zegram tosses his opponent backwards.

Down throw - Zegram slams his opponent into the ground then stabs them with his sword.


Final Smash

Gates of Hell – This is based on Zegram’s ultimate triple team attack from Rogue Galaxy which he performs with the protagonist, Jaster Rogue and one of their partners, Lilika. To initiate the attack, Zegram thrusts his sword in a sweeping motion and anyone caught in range is teleported to a cutscene. Here, Jaster carves a spell circle in the ground while Lilika uses it to summon a huge otherworldly gate from the ground. Zegram slices the gate open with his sword and releases a huge wave of cursed energy which deals massive damage to anyone caught in the initial activation.

Another option for Zegram’s final smash is Jaster’s triple tech, Supernova, that he performs with Zegram and Kisala. In this move, all three dash into the sky and form a giant laser beam with their swords that explodes the planet. Even though this isn’t Zegram’s move specifically, it does feature him as well as the main heroine, Kisala, rather than Lilika, who is more of a side character.


Taunts

Taunt 1 - Zegram points his sword forward and then makes the “bring it on” motion with his hand as he says “Come on, try me!”. This is he animation for his Parry skill.

Taunt 2 - Zegram takes a drink from his gourd, wipes his mouth, and hiccups. This is the animation from the first part of his Drunken Burst skill.

Taunt 3 - Zegram temporarily infuses his sword in flames as he says “This is gonna hurt!”. This is the animation from his Flame Sword skill with the quote from his Death Break skill.


Victory quotes

“Don’t ever try to show off in front of me you damn beast.”

“Huh, why did they even bother jumping us?”

“Let’s just leave it at that for now.”

“What a waste of time!”

“Was that it?”
I genuinely know **** all about Rogue Galaxy, but I'm one of those that care more about how a character plays than who they are. So from the moveset you posted, it seems he's a heavier swordie with some projectile focus, which is cool. Though I would like to say that sword characters are intentionally balanced around having a weak projectile game, and the ones that do - Sephiroth, Link, Hero all have pretty major weaknesses to balance that fact out. Basically, he'd have to be lighter or slower than Ike who you compared him to.

What would his alts / colors look like?

Noms:
x5 Jace (I believe I'm missing 5 noms for him in ur last tally)
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,609
Why does this man have an eyepatch. Seems like a poor strategy. I, personally, wouldn't get an eyepatch.

Maxwell x15
I actually tried to find an answer to this one but I wasn't able to find anything. I don't think the game really gives a canonical reason why Zegram has the eye patch. The creators probably just gave it to him because he's a pirate and it looks cool.

I place 10 votes on Freddy.

Moving onto Zegram discussion, after checking his Rogue Galaxy article and his list of weapons, it doesn't seem like he uses any futuristic weapons like lightsabers or vibroblades, and instead uses mundane and enchanted weapons; what's up with that?
I think the main reason for this is probably to differentiate himself with the main character Jaster. Jaster has all kinds of futuristic blasters with various fun effects like creating platforms, breaking barriers, and other things. Zegram's pirate design also tends to lend itself towards simpler weapons. Rogue Galaxy does have a fusion system that you can combine two different weapons in order to create a new one. A lot of Zegram's later weapons do look pretty out there and futuristic.

I suppose that's fair, though I'll admit, I'm one of those people who thinks the protagonist should take priority whenever a new game/series is added to Smash. Just makes the most sense to me, y'know?

Anyway, somewhat similar question: why should we get a Rogue Galaxy rep before one of Level-5's other IPs, like Professor Layton or Yo-kai Watch?
The short answer is that it probably shouldn't. Rogue Galaxy was a fairly niche JRPG for the PS2 that didn't quite reach the levels of popularity of Level 5's other franchises. That being said, it is my favorite game of theirs and has a lot going for it. The fact that it is an action RPG means that the characters' movesets can be represented faithfully in a fighting game like Smash Bros. where you would probably have to take a lot more liberties with a game like Professor Layton. Rogue Galaxy was also Level 5's most ambitious game and was created in order to try to rival JRPG giants like Final Fantasy and Tales. Needless to say, that didn't quite pan out but I still love the game.

I genuinely know **** all about Rogue Galaxy, but I'm one of those that care more about how a character plays than who they are. So from the moveset you posted, it seems he's a heavier swordie with some projectile focus, which is cool. Though I would like to say that sword characters are intentionally balanced around having a weak projectile game, and the ones that do - Sephiroth, Link, Hero all have pretty major weaknesses to balance that fact out. Basically, he'd have to be lighter or slower than Ike who you compared him to.

What would his alts / colors look like?

Noms:
x5 Jace (I believe I'm missing 5 noms for him in ur last tally)
That's fine. Zegram can easily be made lighter than Ike. Your characters die pretty quickly to random enemies in Rogue Galaxy so I can see that making some sense for Smash.

As for his alternate outfits, Zegram’s primary outfit is a classic pirate coat and red eyepatch. This would serve as his default outfit in Smash. Throughout the game, he gets several other outfits, though his next most iconic one is a red and black samurai outfit. Since Smash tends to only have one alternate outfit per character, this would likely be the one they would go with. All of his outfits are showcased in the skills video I posted earlier but here they are for quicker reference:


Zegram Outfits.png
RG - Zegram 3.jpg
Here's my next question: Zegram's Spirit Board?
Zegram's spirit board would most likely consist of the other playable characters: Jaster, Kisala, Simon, Steve, Lilika, Jupis, and Deego as well as other major characters like Desert Claw and the main antagonist, Valkog

RG - Jaster Rogue.jpg
RG - Kisala.jpg
RG - Simon.jpg
RG - Steve.jpg
RG - Lilika.jpg
RG - Jupis.jpg
RG - Deego.jpg
RG - Desert Claw.jpg
RG - Valkog.jpg
 
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Technomage

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
2,289
I think the main reason for this is probably to differentiate himself with the main character Jaster. Jaster has all kinds of futuristic blasters with various fun effects like creating platforms, breaking barriers, and other things. Zegram's pirate design also tends to lend itself towards simpler weapons. Rogue Galaxy does have a fusion system that you can combine two different weapons in order to create a new one. A lot of Zegram's later weapons do look pretty out there and futuristic.



The short answer is that it probably shouldn't. Rogue Galaxy was a fairly niche JRPG for the PS2 that didn't quite reach the levels of popularity of Level 5's other franchises. That being said, it is my favorite game of theirs and has a lot going for it. The fact that it is an action RPG means that the characters' movesets can be represented faithfully in a fighting game like Smash Bros. where you would probably have to take a lot more liberties with a game like Professor Layton. Rogue Galaxy was also Level 5's most ambitious game and was created in order to try to rival JRPG giants like Final Fantasy and Tales. Needless to say, that didn't quite pan out but I still love the game.


That's fine. Zegram can easily be made lighter than Ike. Your characters die pretty quickly to random enemies in Rogue Galaxy so I can see that making some sense for Smash.

As for his alternate outfits, Zegram’s primary outfit is a classic pirate coat and red eyepatch. This would serve as his default outfit in Smash. Throughout the game, he gets several other outfits, though his next most iconic one is a red and black samurai outfit. Since Smash tends to only have one alternate outfit per character, this would likely be the one they would go with. All of his outfits are showcased in the skills video I posted earlier but here they are for quicker reference:

View attachment 316738View attachment 316739


Zegram's spirit board would most likely consist of the other playable characters: Jaster, Kisala, Simon, Steve, Lilika, Jupis, and Deego as well as other major characters like Desert Claw and the main antagonist, Valkog

View attachment 316740View attachment 316741View attachment 316744View attachment 316745View attachment 316743View attachment 316746View attachment 316747View attachment 316748View attachment 316749
Interesting stuff, though I doubt that chick with the bow and arrows would be added as even a spirit, since she wouldn't be a playable character like Pythra (instead she'd be another Mai Shiranui erasure).
 
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Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,609
Noms: Neku x10

What would a Rogue Galaxy stage be? Would it be set in space or some specific planet?
I think the best option for a Rogue Galaxy stage would be fighting on the deck of their ship, the Dorgenark as it travels between planets. This could either be represented as a traveling stage that docks at certain planets or you could even fight inside the Dorgenark as well. There are a lot of interesting options you could go with based on their ship.

RG - Forest Planet.jpg

RG - Dorgenark Ship.jpg

RG - Dorgenark Hall.jpg
RG - Dorgenark Interior.jpg

Here's a battle from later in the game that showcases how the Dorgenark can be used for a stage. Be warned that it does contain some story spoilers.

 
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Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
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Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,720
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
I think the best option for a Rogue Galaxy stage would be fighting on the deck of their ship, the Dorgenark as it travels between planets. This could either be represented as a traveling stage that docks at certain planets or you could even fight inside the Dorgenark as well. There are a lot of interesting options you could go with based on their ship.

View attachment 316752View attachment 316753View attachment 316754

Here's a battle from later in the game that showcases how the Dorgenark can be used for a stage. Be warned that it does contain some story spoilers.

Oh man those environs look amazing, everything I loved about PS2/GC era JRPGs. I’m resuming my play through for sure when I can

maybe I’ll stream it on Twitch
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,609
I might as well share some screenshots of my old Brawl mod I made for this guy over Marth years ago. This was from before we were able to make fully custom models so it is basically a reshaped and retextured Marth (called a vertex edit). I’d like to try to make a new mod for Ultimate eventually but I haven’t worked with 3D models since Brawl so I’d have to learn all over again.

Zegram1.jpg
Zegram4.jpg
Zegram7.jpg
Zegram9.jpg
Zegram11.jpg
Zegram15.jpg

Zegram13.jpg
Zegram17.jpg
 
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Technomage

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
2,289
I might as well share some screenshots of my old Brawl mod I made for this guy over Marth years ago. This was from before we were able to make fully custom models so it is basically a reshaped and retextured Marth (called a vertex edit). I’d like to try to make a new mod for Ultimate eventually but I haven’t worked with 3D models since Brawl so I’d have to learn all over again.

View attachment 316767 View attachment 316772 View attachment 316768View attachment 316770View attachment 316773View attachment 316774
View attachment 316778 View attachment 316779
Oh cool! I didn't know we had a model programmer here. 😎
 

Paraster

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1,463
Location
The 104 Building
I think the best option for a Rogue Galaxy stage would be fighting on the deck of their ship, the Dorgenark as it travels between planets. This could either be represented as a traveling stage that docks at certain planets or you could even fight inside the Dorgenark as well. There are a lot of interesting options you could go with based on their ship.


Here's a battle from later in the game that showcases how the Dorgenark can be used for a stage. Be warned that it does contain some story spoilers.

So basically Lylat Cruise with more personality and variety in backdrops? Sounds perfect from what little I know of this game.
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,609
So basically Lylat Cruise with more personality and variety in backdrops? Sounds perfect from what little I know of this game.
Thanks. Yeah, I think Lylat Cruise is pretty close to what I envision for the stage. There are a few ideas that could make it stand out too but a simple stage would probably also be fine. I actually took a lot of the screenshots for my mod from Lylat Cruise.

Oh, and I think I forgot to nominate a character today since I never asked a question.

x20 Magus (Chrono Trigger)
 
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amageish

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
3,558
Can I just say that I am absolutely in awe of your passion, Gengar84? I love it when people are dedicated to theorycrafting nicher characters, even if (and, frankly, especially if) they don't think they are that likely to make it in.

You seem to have covered most of the bases already and I'll defer to you for knowledge on how he'd play... Do you have any particular classic mode motif ideas?

Noms: Farmer x 5
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,609
Can I just say that I am absolutely in awe of your passion, Gengar84? I love it when people are dedicated to theorycrafting nicher characters, even if (and, frankly, especially if) they don't think they are that likely to make it in.

You seem to have covered most of the bases already and I'll defer to you for knowledge on how he'd play... Do you have any particular classic mode motif ideas?

Noms: Farmer x 5
Thanks, I'm glad to see all my hard work is recognized. I put a lot more into this than anyone probably ever should lol. I'm even more than halfway through another playthrough of the game just so I could refresh my knowledge and have something to say in this thread.

Classic mode is one area that I haven't really thought into but I think it would make a lot of sense for him to go against other other space based characters, which would include Fox, Falco, Wolf, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, and Ridley.

Hopefully I've been able to at least get across why Zegram is such a cool character even if nobody actually wants him in Smash. I will say that anyone with a PlayStation 4 is able to try Rogue Galaxy on the PlayStation store. It's one of my favorite games ever but it isn't for everyone and it does have some elements that haven't really aged well. The main complaint people have is that the dungeons can be a bit repetitive. Many of the skills also kind of break the game for how powerful they are. Even with all that, the characters are so fun and my love for Zegram especially makes it one of my favorites ever. It's a real shame how this game was passed over since it was released so late into the PS2's lifespan. I think everyone was ready to move on to the PS3 by the time it came out so it never really got a fair shot.



Now, what will Zegram's taunts be?

Zegram's taunts are buried in his moveset, but I'll post them here for quicker access.

Taunts

Taunt 1 - Zegram points his sword forward and then makes the “bring it on” motion with his hand as he says “Come on, try me!”. This is he animation for his Parry skill.

Taunt 2 - Zegram takes a drink from his gourd, wipes his mouth, and hiccups. This is the animation from the first part of his Drunken Burst skill.

Taunt 3 - Zegram temporarily infuses his sword in flames as he says “This is gonna hurt!”. This is the animation from his Flame Sword skill with the quote from his Death Break skill.


Victory quotes

These are Zegram's quotes he says after you win a battle in Rogue Galaxy if he is in the party. It isn't really easy finding any information like this online so this is one thing playing the game again helped with.

“Don’t ever try to show off in front of me you damn beast.”

“Huh, why did they even bother jumping us?”

“Let’s just leave it at that for now.”

“What a waste of time!”

“Was that it?”

You can see the animation for all of these in this video:

 
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Technomage

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
2,289
Thanks, I'm glad to see all my hard work is recognized. I put a lot more into this than anyone probably ever should lol. I'm even more than halfway through another playthrough of the game just so I could refresh my knowledge and have something to say in this thread.

Classic mode is one area that I haven't really thought into but I think it would make a lot of sense for him to go against other other space based characters, which would include Fox, Falco, Wolf, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, and Ridley.

Hopefully I've been able to at least get across why Zegram is such a cool character even if nobody actually wants him in Smash. I will say that anyone with a PlayStation 4 is able to try Rogue Galaxy on the PlayStation store. It's one of my favorite games ever but it isn't for everyone and it does have some elements that haven't really aged well. The main complaint people have is that the dungeons can be a bit repetitive. Many of the skills also kind of break the game for how powerful they are. Even with all that, the characters are so fun and my love for Zegram especially makes it one of my favorites ever.




Zegram's taunts are buried in his moveset, but I'll post them here for quicker access.


Taunt 1 - Zegram points his sword forward and then makes the “bring it on” motion with his hand as he says “Come on, try me!”. This is he animation for his Parry skill.

Taunt 2 - Zegram takes a drink from his gourd, wipes his mouth, and hiccups. This is the animation from the first part of his Drunken Burst skill.

Taunt 3 - Zegram temporarily infuses his sword in flames as he says “This is gonna hurt!”. This is the animation from his Flame Sword skill with the quote from his Death Break skill.

You can see the animation for all of these in this video:

The second taunt is interesting and amusing, though how would that be able to get past the censors?
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,609
The second taunt is interesting and amusing, though how would that be able to get past the censors?
I'm not really sure honestly. If not, you can always just take the second half of his Drunken Burst skill animation where he hunches over and looks up menacingly while he glows in purple energy. The first half is a little bit more unique and shows his personality better so I went with that but if it is a problem for the rating, we can always go with the second half.
 

amageish

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
3,558
Hear ye, hear ye. I bride good tidings and a nomination list.

50+ noms
Farmer - x140
Agumon - x130
Masked Man - x125
Jace x115
Pyramid Head x110
Miriam - x95

Battletoads - x80
Magus (Chrono Trigger) - x65
Crash Bandicoot x65
Gran/Djeeta - x60
Neku Sakuraba - x60
Maxwell - x50
Amaterasu - x50

26-50 noms
Estelle Bright - x45
Frisk - x44
Chosen Undead - x40
Saber - x40
Imperial (Etrian Odyssey) - x35
Elma - x38
2B - x35
Freddy Fazbear - x32

11-25 noms
Octoling - x25
Black Mage - x20
Master Hand - x20
Laharl - x20
Cadence - x20
Maxwell - x15
Mega Man X - x15
Isaac (Golden Sun) - x15
Shovel Knight - x15
Trauma Center Content - x12

5-10 noms
Daitoryo - x10
Saber - x10
Ryza - x10
2B - x5
Amiya - x5
Gunvolt - x5
Jill Stingray - x5
Astral Chain rep - x5
Nathan Drake - x5
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,609
Since Smash Ultimate is so great at showing really expressive facial expressions, I thought it would be fun to share this official artwork of some of Zegram’s. I have a feeling that Zegram might be Level 5’s favorite Rogue Galaxy character because he seems to have more official art than other characters. He was even one of the three characters to be featured on the box art.

1622198009774.jpeg


1622198657876.jpeg


Since nobody had any idea who Zegram was prior to this thread, it didn’t really make any sense for me to ask a question. Now that I’ve shared my thoughts of who he is and how he’d play, I think I have a few now.

Now that you all at least have some idea who Zegram is, what are your thoughts on him? Do you guys think he is cool? He has no real chance, but how would you feel if he was added to Smash? Finally, have I convinced anyone to try out Rogue Galaxy for themselves? It is a little sad how much effort I put into his support thread only to get zero replies other than someone I personally asked to post in it. I hope I was at least able to convey why I personally like the character so much.
 
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Pillow

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
1,268
Location
Los Angeles
Since Smash Ultimate is so great at showing really expressive facial expressions, I thought it would be fun to share this official artwork of some of Zegram’s. I have a feeling that Zegram might be Level 5’s favorite Rogue Galaxy character because he seems to have more official art than other characters. He was even one of the three characters to be featured on the box art.

View attachment 316872

View attachment 316873

Since nobody had any idea who Zegram was prior to this thread, it didn’t really make any sense for me to ask a question. Now that I’ve shared my thoughts of who he is and how he’d play, I think I have a few now.

Now that you all at least have some idea who Zegram is, what are your thoughts on him? Do you guys think he is cool? He has no real chance, but how would you feel if he was added to Smash? Finally, have I convinced anyone to try out Rogue Galaxy for themselves? It is a little sad how much effort I put into his support thread only to get zero replies other than someone I personally asked to post in it.I hope I was at least able to convey why I personally like the character so much.
Personally im the type of guy who likes Smash characters to come with some legacy and prestige, which Zegram is lacking.

That said, he seems cool and would probably be fun to play, if a bit straightforward based off your example moveset. If Smash 6 has a few hundred playable characters including the MC of Rogue Galaxy id be totally down for him. I just feel there’s a long line ahead of him of stuff that should be in Smash first.

as for trying rogue galaxy out myself....it’s possible! But like Zegram in Smash I have quite a long list of games I need to play first.
 
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Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,609
Personally im the type of guy who likes Smash characters to come with some legacy and prestige, which Zegram is lacking.

That said, he seems cool and would probably be fun to play, if a bit straightforward based off your example moveset. If Smash 6 has a few hundred playable characters including the MC of Rogue Galaxy id be totally down for him. I just feel there’s a long line ahead of him of stuff that should be in Smash first.

as for trying rogue galaxy out myself....it’s possible! But like Zegram in Smash I have quite a long list of games I need to play first.
Yeah, I totally understand that and I think most people feel the same way. Ideally, I’d also love for the characters to have some kind of legacy or importance to gaming history. At the end of the day though, as selfish as it might sound, I just want to play as my favorite characters and sadly most of them are pretty lacking in that department.

Either way, I’m really happy with the roster we already have and I’m not expecting my personal favorites to ever make it in over gaming icons. I’m really lucky we got Sephiroth, who has always been another personal favorite of mine.

Concerning his moveset, I’m glad you like it. I was a little worried that I might have made him a little too complex with his twin sword state that changes all his normals and his cool down mechanic for his shuriken. I’m glad to hear that he’s still pretty straightforward even with that. I was considering some kind of mechanic that would allow him to use all three levels of his Burning Strike attack but just went with the first stage for simplicity’s sake.

Just so everyone is able to see it easier, here are the gimmicks unique to Zegram:

  • Twin Sword power up state similar to Joker’s Rebellion gauge that allows him to dual wield blades and changes most of his A moves.
  • Chargeable Jab that is useful for shield breaking. While charging, Zegram can walk back or forward very slowly like Kirby’s hammer special. Pressing the button repeatedly will instead perform a faster 5 hit combo.
  • Cargo throw shared only with DK that allows Zegram to move around while holding a character over his head.
  • Cool down mechanic in his shuriken (neutral special) that can be cut in half by shielding.
 
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PeridotGX

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
9,019
Location
That Distant Shore
NNID
Denoma5280
Rouge Galaxy was published by Sony, so it's only available on PlayStation systems. It did get a rerelease on PS4, though, so you can play it there. It's actually on sale for seven bucks, so I might pick it up (it's regular price is $15, which is a rather acceptable price anyways)
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,385
Rouge Galaxy was published by Sony, so it's only available on PlayStation systems. It did get a rerelease on PS4, though, so you can play it there. It's actually on sale for seven bucks, so I might pick it up (it's regular price is $15, which is a rather acceptable price anyways)
Well, that explains a few things...

In the off chance Level-5 goes under (which I'm legit scared is going to happen, given recent events), I think I might know who's gonna end up with Rogue Galaxy, at least.
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,609
Rouge Galaxy was published by Sony, so it's only available on PlayStation systems. It did get a rerelease on PS4, though, so you can play it there. It's actually on sale for seven bucks, so I might pick it up (it's regular price is $15, which is a rather acceptable price anyways)
Thanks for sharing that. I personally love the game but it’s only fair to mention that it isn’t perfect and does have some elements that haven’t aged all that well. It seems to get around 7’s or 7.5’s overall. People often complain about repetitive dungeon design and I think some of the skills are a little overpowered. I think what really holds it up is the colorful cast of characters, the weapon fusion system, and the general tone of the game. I think the combat is a lot of fun but it definitely has some balance issues. I’d love for as many people as possible to at least give it a shot and see for themselves.
 

ahemtoday

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
874
Alright, I think that's enough time to gauge how much more activity we'll be getting out of Mr. Ghart. ahemtoday ahemtoday , bring out the extra noms!
You got it, boss!

PeridotGX PeridotGX x10 (15 Total)
SharkLord SharkLord x5 (10 Total)
C chocolatejr9 x10 (15 Total)
Technomage Technomage x15 (20 Total)
GolisoPower GolisoPower x5 (10 Total)
Gengar84 Gengar84 x15 (20 Total)
Paraster Paraster x5 (10 Total)
amageish amageish x5 (10 Total)

I just realized I haven't been nomming anything for a while. Uhhh, give me... x5 noms toward... This is actually kinda difficult, since I'd want to have movesets and stuff prepared for some of the semi-obscure characters I've been voting for. I guess I'll nominate Neku.
 

Technomage

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
2,289
You got it, boss!

PeridotGX PeridotGX x10 (15 Total)
SharkLord SharkLord x5 (10 Total)
C chocolatejr9 x10 (15 Total)
Technomage Technomage x15 (20 Total)
GolisoPower GolisoPower x5 (10 Total)
Gengar84 Gengar84 x15 (20 Total)
Paraster Paraster x5 (10 Total)
amageish amageish x5 (10 Total)

I just realized I haven't been nomming anything for a while. Uhhh, give me... x5 noms toward... This is actually kinda difficult, since I'd want to have movesets and stuff prepared for some of the semi-obscure characters I've been voting for. I guess I'll nominate Neku.
I place all 20 of my noms on the Imperial.

Anyways, who's the next character we discuss?
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
6,609
I just want to thank everyone for the chance to share my thoughts on my favorite character ever. Since almost nobody even knows who Zegram is, I never really get the chance to talk about him so I had a lot to say. If anyone decides to try Rogue Galaxy, feel free to drop by my Zegram support thread and we can talk about it. (Or even if you don’t play it, the thread could use all the support it can lol).
 
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SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
7,684
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
Alright, here we go:

Day 15 - Farmer
Day 16 - Agumon
Day 17 - Masked Man
Day 18 - Jace
Day 19 - Pyramid Head
Day 20 - Miriam
Day 21 - Ayumi Tachibana


Starting off the new week, we have the Farmer from Story of Seasons!
1622228474910.png


So first question, what is Story of Seasons? What's it all about?

Nomination: Amiya x10
 
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