Character Exploration Thread - Day 79: Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)

[chocolatejr9]

For those wondering about what kind of moveset Isaac could have, I'm going to post this video:

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Hey, it's MY job to post BrawlFan1 movesets! You can't steal my job!

 

[Technomage]

Hey, it's MY job to post BrawlFan1 movesets! You can't steal my job!

Guess that means I'll be taking your paycheck for the day; how much money do you make?

 

[Gengar84]

I had to do a little research on this game since I have only ever heard the name before. For such a cute character design, the game seems incredibly dark. Visually, Isaac reminds me of the Chorus Kids but I’m pretty sure they would play nothing alike.

My first question is what kind of stage do you think would be best to represent Isaac? It looks like the game is a dungeon crawler like Diablo from what little I’ve seen so it would be interesting to see how that would translate to a Smash stage.

x40 Battletoads

 

[ahemtoday]

So, it's funny this came up, because I put together a B-moveset for Isaac recently.

By default, Isaac is a somewhat weak character with above-average weight and good air maneuverability. Many of his attacks shoot tears at various trajectories. These are quick and repeatable, but deal little damage, barely any knockback, and don't cause opponents to flinch. As a result, default Isaac's gameplan is usually to weave around enemy attacks while pelting them with tears - which, coincidentally, tends to be the gameplan in the actual game.

Of course, there's a way to change that.

As Isaac deals and receives damage, he receives coins, which are shown above his damage meter. With his neutral special, Keeper's Box, he can spend these Coins to buy Shop Items, upgrades to his attributes and attacks. However, he'll lose all his current Shop Items when he loses a stock, so staying alive is more important than ever.

I'll come back to Keeper's Box later, but keep it in mind as I explain the rest of the moveset.

Isaac's specials are all based on activated items, while the Shop Items from Keeper's Box are based on passive items. For both, but particularly the specials, I wanted to choose items with particular legacy and importance.

Spoiler: Side Special: Sulfur

Isaac's side special is Sulfur. Similarly to Greninja's Shadow Sneak, it's charged by holding the button, during which time you can move around. The attack only goes off if you charge it all the way. Release the button to fire a big blood laser horizontally. While slow, this attack is Isaac's best method of KOing opponents before he gets many Shop Items.

Sulfur is a fairly recent and unremarkable item, but I mainly included it because its effect is to temporarily give you Brimstone, one of the most iconic items in the series. I would just call it Brimstone anyway, except Brimstone's a Shop Item in this moveset, so I may as well just continue the activated item theme. If you call this move Brimstone anyway, I won't tell anyone.

Spoiler: Up Special: The Bible

Isaac's up special is The Bible. Isaac sprouts wings, and can fly freely for about three seconds, similarly to Pit's old up-B. If you hit A while using this move, Isaac will shoot a tear in the direction he's moving. This move plays into Isaac's generally evasive playstyle.

This move is based on an activated item of the same name from the original game. It gives flight for the current room. It plays a role in one of the endings of the game, and has the unique distinction of instantly defeating the final boss, the real final boss, and the real real final boss (and killing YOU on the real real real final boss). Beyond that, Isaac sprouting these wings is a bit of a recurring theme, occuring in the real real real real final boss fight against him, and the real real real real real real real real real real final boss fight against the Beast. Yes, the game has a lot of allegedly final bosses.

Spoiler: Down Special: Crack the Sky

Isaac's down special is Crack the Sky, wherein Isaac holds up a white feather and causes five beams of light to rain down from the sky - one directly on top of him, then two on either side, and then two more further out. It has significant startup and endlag, but it's one of Isaac's best ways of KOing foes before he gets any Shop Items.

Crack the Sky is based on an activated item introduced in Wrath of the Lamb all the way back in 2012. I think it's earned a spot as a special move because during the boss fight against Isaac, he actually uses it as his most notable attack, coating the entire room in sky beams. I actually considered it as his Final Smash, but I feel it works better as a move like Thunder.

Spoiler: Neutral Special: Keeper's Box

Keeper's Box is named after an item from Repentance that generates a miniature shop when used, but that's honestly secondary - this special's moreso just based on the shop itself. In addition to being a way to get items that translates more easily than Treasure Rooms, the shop (and its owner, Greed) seems to have... some type of significance to the lore. I mean, it has its own mode, so it has to, right?

With that out of the way, when you use Keeper's Box. you're presented with a Monado-esque wheel of Shop Items, each with a listed price in Coins (varying by item, and mostly up to the balance team). The Shop Items you get are random, but you'll always get one from each set.

If you press B again, it'll switch to a Devil Deal, where you can deal yourself damage to pay for the items. This is a way you can get powerful items at the start of your stock, but it puts you at serious risk. Also, you can't pay damage above 100%, because otherwise you could just buy all the items and never get hit.

The first set are Stat Items. These are cheap items that increase some of Isaac's attributes, without much special going on with them.

• CRICKET'S HEAD: Increases the damage of Isaac's tears.
• BLOOD OF THE MARTYR: Increases the damage of Isaac's tears, and turns them red.
• STIGMATA: Increases Isaac's damage and weight.
• BREAKFAST: Increases Isaac's weight. If the game can't find an item to put in a slot, it puts Breakfast there.
• <3: Increases Isaac's weight.
• BLOOD BAG: Increases Isaac's weight and speed. Heals him 5% when taken.
• THE BELT: Increases Isaac's speed.
• WOODEN SPOON: Increases Isaac's speed.
• THE MARK: Increases Isaac's speed and damage. Heals him 1% when taken.
• THE HALO: Increases Isaac's damage, weight, and speed.

The second set are Unique Items. These items have unique effects you'll have to keep in mind, but they're not usually anything too complicated.

• THE INNER EYE: Isaac's tears now fire a triple shot. Their fire rate is decreased, however.
• SPOON BENDER: Makes Isaac's tears purple with a slight homing effect.
• LORD OF THE PIT: Increases Isaac's speed. Gives him a third jump.
• OUIJA BOARD: Isaac's tears can now travel through terrain.
• ***** OF BABYLON: Isaac gets a damage and speed up as long as he's above 100%. (This item should probably be renamed. Maybe "Babylon the Great"?)
• ARIES: Increases Isaac's speed. Gives him the Impact Run effect.
• SCORPIO: Isaac's tears inflict poison.

The final set (and easily the most exciting) are Tear Items. These replace Isaac's tears entirely with some other type of projectile, though the animation of Isaac's body remains the same. These can be very powerful, but they all have a drawback. Are the perks worth it, or should you just take cheaper Stat Items for a more well-rounded Isaac?

• BRIMSTONE: Replaces Isaac's tears with powerful blood lasers like the one from his side-B. Speaking of, Sulfur's beam gets even bigger and stronger. However, you're sacrificing fire rate - Brimstone beams have a lot of windup.
• MOM'S KNIFE: Replaces Isaac's tears with a floating knife that shoots in that direction before boomeranging back. It improves damage and "shot" speed, but sacrifices range.
• IPECAC: Replaces Isaac's tears with explosive lob shots. They deal a lot more damage and knockback, but they'll deal just as much damage to you. In other words, you're sacrificing your own HP, probably.
• DR. FETUS: Replaces Isaac's tears with bombs that slide across the ground. They deal great damage and knockback, but they don't explode on contact - you're sacrificing shot speed.
• SOY MILK: Replaces Isaac's tears with a flurry of tiny white tear shots. Individual tears deal less damage, but if enough hit they'll deal more overall. The real drawback is the loss of knockback.
• TRISAGION: Replaces Isaac's tears with piercing white blasts of light. This increases knockback and range, but you sacrifice damage.

There could, of course, be more items than that, but I already put down a ton.

Now, this is a pretty... screwy way to do Isaac. It does convey the way you get items and really change your run, but I can't shake the feeling it could be simplified somehow. Maybe just the Tear Items, 'cause if all of those stack, I think it gets across the same thing. Or maybe the complexity is good - this is clearly shaping up to be a Hero- or Steve-like character with a crazy amount of options, after all.

 

[amageish]

If I remember isn't TBoI a Nicalis game? It's funny considering we have Quote not tool long ago lol

Yes, but no. BoI was published by Nicalis, but it isn't owned by them and the creator has severed ties with them following the scandals of how they have been treating their employees and smaller third-party partners.

Anyway, I agree with most people that the alts would probably be all different characters. It's not too hard to add wigs to the same base model, after all...

Otherwise, uh, yeah, turning Isaac SFW sounds like a big challenge, but I don't think it's an impossible one. You'd just have to be really careful with his moveset and keep everything very cartoon-y. I imagine his attacks would have similar visual effects to Toon Link to play up the cartooniness...

I feel like Isaac mechanically should have something similar to Joker's Rebellion Gauge, where his kit can evolve with time. As a rouguelike, BoI's bread and butter is growing in power with time by modifying and enhancing moves, so it'd be good for that to be reflected in his moveset....

I do wonder how they'd handle spirits though, especially if we're including most of the characters as fighter alts.

Nominations: 20 for Farmer

 

[Paraster]

I had to do a little research on this game since I have only ever heard the name before. For such a cute character design, the game seems incredibly dark. Visually, Isaac reminds me of the Chorus Kids but I’m pretty sure they would play nothing alike.

My first question is what kind of stage do you think would be best to represent Isaac? It looks like the game is a dungeon crawler like Diablo from what little I’ve seen so it would be interesting to see how that would translate to a Smash stage.

x20 Battletoads
x20 Magus (Chrono Trigger)

I once thought The Void would be best, with it switching between various different aesthetic styles at random, but that might be a bit too disorienting in practice.

I think the most likely is The Basement; it's the first location in the game, it's the most iconic, and it even served as Isaac's stage in Blade Strangers.

(Speaking of which, Isaac looks weird among the rest of the Blade Strangers cast.)

So, it's funny this came up, because I put together a B-moveset for Isaac recently.

By default, Isaac is a somewhat weak character with above-average weight and good air maneuverability. Many of his attacks shoot tears at various trajectories. These are quick and repeatable, but deal little damage, barely any knockback, and don't cause opponents to flinch. As a result, default Isaac's gameplan is usually to weave around enemy attacks while pelting them with tears - which, coincidentally, tends to be the gameplan in the actual game.

Of course, there's a way to change that.

As Isaac deals and receives damage, he receives coins, which are shown above his damage meter. With his neutral special, Keeper's Box, he can spend these Coins to buy Shop Items, upgrades to his attributes and attacks. However, he'll lose all his current Shop Items when he loses a stock, so staying alive is more important than ever.

I'll come back to Keeper's Box later, but keep it in mind as I explain the rest of the moveset.

Isaac's specials are all based on activated items, while the Shop Items from Keeper's Box are based on passive items. For both, but particularly the specials, I wanted to choose items with particular legacy and importance.

Spoiler: Side Special: Sulfur

Isaac's side special is Sulfur. Similarly to Greninja's Shadow Sneak, it's charged by holding the button, during which time you can move around. The attack only goes off if you charge it all the way. Release the button to fire a big blood laser horizontally. While slow, this attack is Isaac's best method of KOing opponents before he gets many Shop Items.

Sulfur is a fairly recent and unremarkable item, but I mainly included it because its effect is to temporarily give you Brimstone, one of the most iconic items in the series. I would just call it Brimstone anyway, except Brimstone's a Shop Item in this moveset, so I may as well just continue the activated item theme. If you call this move Brimstone anyway, I won't tell anyone.

Spoiler: Up Special: The Bible

Isaac's up special is The Bible. Isaac sprouts wings, and can fly freely for about three seconds, similarly to Pit's old up-B. If you hit A while using this move, Isaac will shoot a tear in the direction he's moving. This move plays into Isaac's generally evasive playstyle.

This move is based on an activated item of the same name from the original game. It gives flight for the current room. It plays a role in one of the endings of the game, and has the unique distinction of instantly defeating the final boss, the real final boss, and the real real final boss (and killing YOU on the real real real final boss). Beyond that, Isaac sprouting these wings is a bit of a recurring theme, occuring in the real real real real final boss fight against him, and the real real real real real real real real real real final boss fight against the Beast. Yes, the game has a lot of allegedly final bosses.

Spoiler: Down Special: Crack the Sky

Isaac's down special is Crack the Sky, wherein Isaac holds up a white feather and causes five beams of light to rain down from the sky - one directly on top of him, then two on either side, and then two more further out. It has significant startup and endlag, but it's one of Isaac's best ways of KOing foes before he gets any Shop Items.

Crack the Sky is based on an activated item introduced in Wrath of the Lamb all the way back in 2012. I think it's earned a spot as a special move because during the boss fight against Isaac, he actually uses it as his most notable attack, coating the entire room in sky beams. I actually considered it as his Final Smash, but I feel it works better as a move like Thunder.

Spoiler: Neutral Special: Keeper's Box

Keeper's Box is named after an item from Repentance that generates a miniature shop when used, but that's honestly secondary - this special's moreso just based on the shop itself. In addition to being a way to get items that translates more easily than Treasure Rooms, the shop (and its owner, Greed) seems to have... some type of significance to the lore. I mean, it has its own mode, so it has to, right?

With that out of the way, when you use Keeper's Box. you're presented with a Monado-esque wheel of Shop Items, each with a listed price in Coins (varying by item, and mostly up to the balance team). The Shop Items you get are random, but you'll always get one from each set.

If you press B again, it'll switch to a Devil Deal, where you can deal yourself damage to pay for the items. This is a way you can get powerful items at the start of your stock, but it puts you at serious risk. Also, you can't pay damage above 100%, because otherwise you could just buy all the items and never get hit.

The first set are Stat Items. These are cheap items that increase some of Isaac's attributes, without much special going on with them.

• CRICKET'S HEAD: Increases the damage of Isaac's tears.
• BLOOD OF THE MARTYR: Increases the damage of Isaac's tears, and turns them red.
• STIGMATA: Increases Isaac's damage and weight.
• BREAKFAST: Increases Isaac's weight. If the game can't find an item to put in a slot, it puts Breakfast there.
• <3: Increases Isaac's weight.
• BLOOD BAG: Increases Isaac's weight and speed. Heals him 5% when taken.
• THE BELT: Increases Isaac's speed.
• WOODEN SPOON: Increases Isaac's speed.
• THE MARK: Increases Isaac's speed and damage. Heals him 1% when taken.
• THE HALO: Increases Isaac's damage, weight, and speed.

The second set are Unique Items. These items have unique effects you'll have to keep in mind, but they're not usually anything too complicated.

• THE INNER EYE: Isaac's tears now fire a triple shot. Their fire rate is decreased, however.
• SPOON BENDER: Makes Isaac's tears purple with a slight homing effect.
• LORD OF THE PIT: Increases Isaac's speed. Gives him a third jump.
• OUIJA BOARD: Isaac's tears can now travel through terrain.
• ***** OF BABYLON: Isaac gets a damage and speed up as long as he's above 100%. (This item should probably be renamed. Maybe "Babylon the Great"?)
• ARIES: Increases Isaac's speed. Gives him the Impact Run effect.
• SCORPIO: Isaac's tears inflict poison.

The final set (and easily the most exciting) are Tear Items. These replace Isaac's tears entirely with some other type of projectile, though the animation of Isaac's body remains the same. These can be very powerful, but they all have a drawback. Are the perks worth it, or should you just take cheaper Stat Items for a more well-rounded Isaac?

• BRIMSTONE: Replaces Isaac's tears with powerful blood lasers like the one from his side-B. Speaking of, Sulfur's beam gets even bigger and stronger. However, you're sacrificing fire rate - Brimstone beams have a lot of windup.
• MOM'S KNIFE: Replaces Isaac's tears with a floating knife that shoots in that direction before boomeranging back. It improves damage and "shot" speed, but sacrifices range.
• IPECAC: Replaces Isaac's tears with explosive lob shots. They deal a lot more damage and knockback, but they'll deal just as much damage to you. In other words, you're sacrificing your own HP, probably.
• DR. FETUS: Replaces Isaac's tears with bombs that slide across the ground. They deal great damage and knockback, but they don't explode on contact - you're sacrificing shot speed.
• SOY MILK: Replaces Isaac's tears with a flurry of tiny white tear shots. Individual tears deal less damage, but if enough hit they'll deal more overall. The real drawback is the loss of knockback.
• TRISAGION: Replaces Isaac's tears with piercing white blasts of light. This increases knockback and range, but you sacrifice damage.

There could, of course, be more items than that, but I already put down a ton.

Now, this is a pretty... screwy way to do Isaac. It does convey the way you get items and really change your run, but I can't shake the feeling it could be simplified somehow. Maybe just the Tear Items, 'cause if all of those stack, I think it gets across the same thing. Or maybe the complexity is good - this is clearly shaping up to be a Hero- or Steve-like character with a crazy amount of options, after all.

This is wacky and kinda amazing. I don't think Isaac needs a mechanic like this, but it'd certainly be fun and go the extra mile to reflecting his canon gameplay.

 

[GolisoPower]

If I were making a moveset for Isaac, I think I know how to implement his items, since they're extremely important to Binding of Isaac's rogue like nature:

By hitting an opponent with high-enough knockback, they'll drop a treasure chest for Isaac to open. Whatever item comes out of it is entirely dependent on the character he knocks back: characters like Ganondorf and Sephiroth would leave behind harder-hitting items, but characters like Villager and Steve would bestow him with support items, for example. Items would grant either buffs to his attributes, upgrades to his moveset directly, or debuffs for his foes, dependent on which items are equipped. His Specials would be the same all throughout, but with Chest Items dropped by opponents, you essentially upgrade them in various ways.

 

[Paraster]

I'm partial towards a treasure chest myself, given its prominence in both gameplay and the story.
View attachment 316232

Just made a mockup for what a chest emblem would look like.

 

[ahemtoday]

If I were making a moveset for Isaac, I think I know how to implement his items, since they're extremely important to Binding of Isaac's rogue like nature:

By hitting an opponent with high-enough knockback, they'll drop a treasure chest for Isaac to open. Whatever item comes out of it is entirely dependent on the character he knocks back: characters like Ganondorf and Sephiroth would leave behind harder-hitting items, but characters like Villager and Steve would bestow him with support items, for example. Items would grant either buffs to his attributes, upgrades to his moveset directly, or debuffs for his foes, dependent on which items are equipped. His Specials would be the same all throughout, but with Chest Items dropped by opponents, you essentially upgrade them in various ways.

Hm. I agree that Isaac's moveset should probably implement items in some way, but I'm not... quite sure about doing it like this.

In particular, I'm not sure about the opponent-dependent part of it. I feel like that just makes it so that if you fight against the same character, you'll get the same items every time. If you want speed items but you're in a match with Ganondorf, Wario, and Bowser, you're out of luck.

 

[GolisoPower]

Hm. I agree that Isaac's moveset should probably implement items in some way, but I'm not... quite sure about doing it like this.

In particular, I'm not sure about the opponent-dependent part of it. I feel like that just makes it so that if you fight against the same character, you'll get the same items every time. If you want speed items but you're in a match with Ganondorf, Wario, and Bowser, you're out of luck.

That is a fair point, I was just attempting to think of a good mechanic for Isaac without delving too deep into RNG, which considering Hero, people seem to hate competitively.

 

[Technomage]

Let's see, what else have we not touched on yet, in regards to Isaac content? How about a Classis Mode route?

 

[Yiptap]

Yes, but no. BoI was published by Nicalis, but it isn't owned by them and the creator has severed ties with them following the scandals of how they have been treating their employees and smaller third-party partners.

Anyway, I agree with most people that the alts would probably be all different characters. It's not too hard to add wigs to the same base model, after all...

Otherwise, uh, yeah, turning Isaac SFW sounds like a big challenge, but I don't think it's an impossible one. You'd just have to be really careful with his moveset and keep everything very cartoon-y. I imagine his attacks would have similar visual effects to Toon Link to play up the cartooniness...

I feel like Isaac mechanically should have something similar to Joker's Rebellion Gauge, where his kit can evolve with time. As a rouguelike, BoI's bread and butter is growing in power with time by modifying and enhancing moves, so it'd be good for that to be reflected in his moveset....

I do wonder how they'd handle spirits though, especially if we're including most of the characters as fighter alts.

Nominations: 20 for Farmer

For alts, you could also go with colors referencing the transformations Isaac gets from items, and then the other playable characters can work as spirits. If Nintendo were to go the route using other characters as alts, then you can use bosses like Isaac's mom, and some of the more SFW enemies like the fly and clotty. I prefer the one using transformation colors instead of other characters because some of the more iconic monsters (Gaper, Pacer, Horf, etc) probably won't make the cut due to having blood.

 

[PeridotGX]

Binding of Isaac is another easy one, it's on Switch for $40. Seems a bit steep to me, but what do I know?

 

[Pillow]

I'm not really familiar with TBOI. I know it's a Rogue-Like and it has some rather dark themes about religion and child abuse. That said, I've always thought that it would be fitting for any Rogue-like rep to have some sort of Aura type mechanic as they slowly grew stronger over the course of a stock then lose it all and have to start over when they started the next stock and was wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to implement such a mechanic?

On the topic of the controversial themes, I do agree it's kind of hard to separate them from this character. I mean, it's not a gory or violent game (I think?) but I'm just highly against censorship in general and hate when characters come with specific content cut that was integral to their home game. However, they did it with Bayonetta, so they could easily do it with Isaac if they really wanted him.

I also just wanted to point out that Isaac has the perfect proportions to be a deluxe Mii.


Nominations:
x25 Jace

 

[amageish]

For alts, you could also go with colors referencing the transformations Isaac gets from items, and then the other playable characters can work as spirits. If Nintendo were to go the route using other characters as alts, then you can use bosses like Isaac's mom, and some of the more SFW enemies like the fly and clotty. I prefer the one using transformation colors instead of other characters because some of the more iconic monsters (Gaper, Pacer, Horf, etc) probably won't make the cut due to having blood.

I thought of that too, but, as others pointed out, those transformations tend to be extraordinarily body horror in execution. I guess they could maybe just do pallete swaps vaguely referencing stuff with nothing else, but that feels kind of underwhelming for a game that

But, yes, most of the enemies tend to be bloody or poopy... This is a challenging one.

Binding of Isaac is another easy one, it's on Switch for $40. Seems a bit steep to me, but what do I know?

I mean, it's a roguelike, so people do spend hundreds to thousands of hours in it, especially if they're trying to play to completion.

 

[ahemtoday]

So what kind of layout could we get out of the Basement as a stage? It tends to be a pretty enclosed space, but those don't really work as Smash stages. So they'd need to get creative, unless they chose the Dark Room or something.

Anyway, noms: Amaterasu xMax

 

[Paraster]

Let's see, what else have we not touched on yet, in regards to Isaac content? How about a Classis Mode route?

I came up with one a while back.

Isaac (The Binding of Isaac): Duality
Battle both angelic and demonic enemies.
Round 1: on Reset Bomb Forest (Boss Fight 1)
Round 2: on Hyrule Castle (Overworld & Underworld - The Legend of Zelda (for 3DS / Wii U))
Round 3: on Fountain of Dreams (A Battle of Friends and Bonds 2)
Round 4: (purple) on Saffron City (Pokémon Red / Pokémon Blue Medley)
Round 5: on Castle Siege (Fire Emblem Theme (Heroic Origins))
Round 6: on Umbra Clock Tower (Destroyed Skyworld)
Final Round:

on Find Mii (Ω form) (Hericide)

 

[ShrimpScampi]

I haven't played Binding of Isaac, so I'm not too knowledgeable on it tbh. That said, since it's a roguelike, I could see some sort of randomization element in Isaac's challenger pack. If not in the moveset itself, I could see a randomization element to his stage's layout. Minecraft world already has a handful of different biomes, so a somewhat randomized stage layout for Isaac's stage wouldn't be too far of a stretch from that. It definitely wouldn't be competitively viable, but I think it could reflect the randomized nature of roguelikes pretty well.

Noms: Estelle Bright x20

 

[amageish]

So what kind of layout could we get out of the Basement as a stage? It tends to be a pretty enclosed space, but those don't really work as Smash stages. So they'd need to get creative, unless they chose the Dark Room or something.

Anyway, noms: Amaterasu xMax

I think it'd be good to have it be partially randomized and big? I'm thinking, like, "98% of players actively avoid this stage as it's too large"-level big, to reflect the many levels and depths of the basement. Great Cave Offensive, but there are a few layouts the corners can take which are randomly selected a la the Minecraft stage.

 

[SharkLord]

Something I'm wondering us, what's Isaac's most notable weapons and abilities beyond the tears and Brimstone? I'm curious as to what he can do.

 

[amageish]

Something I'm wondering us, what's Isaac's most notable weapons and abilities beyond the tears and Brimstone? I'm curious as to what he can do.

I mean, by default Isaac has tears and bombs.

In terms of weapons he can pick up... There's a lot. Attacks include calling rockets to strike on your behalf, spawning spider friends to protect you, spawning fly friend(s) to protect you, calling down beams of light from the heavens, and summoning a friend to join you in shooting tears. He also has a lot of body modifiers, which can include stuff like cutting off his head, making himself poisonous to touch, making himself fly, turning himself into a stone statue, or becoming a weird body horror version of Toad.

There's also a lot of gross-out humor, which I will not name or link as I do not want to accidentally break forum rules by saying something NSFL when thought about critically.

 

[Pillow]

I mean, by default Isaac has tears and bombs.

In terms of weapons he can pick up... There's a lot. Attacks include calling rockets to strike on your behalf, spawning spider friends to protect you, spawning fly friend(s) to protect you, calling down beams of light from the heavens, and summoning a friend to join you in shooting tears. He also has a lot of body modifiers, which can include stuff like cutting off his head, making himself poisonous to touch, making himself fly, turning himself into a stone statue, or becoming a weird body horror version of Toad.

There's also a lot of gross-out humor, which I will not name or link as I do not want to accidentally break forum rules by saying something NSFL when thought about critically.

Is it weird that I now really want this character?

 

[ahemtoday]

Something I'm wondering us, what's Isaac's most notable weapons and abilities beyond the tears and Brimstone? I'm curious as to what he can do.

Let me divide this up into three categories: universal game mechanics, notable obtainable items, and stuff he uses in the boss fight against him. (I used some of this stuff in my moveset, so some of this is gonna be a retread.)

For universal mechanics, easily the most major is the bomb. They're a type of basic pickups: drop them, can push them around, and they explode after a bit; dealing damage (including to you), breaking rocks, and opening secret rooms. (Incidentally, the other types of pickups are the self-explanatory hearts and coins, and keys that are used to open doors; none of which are particular useful for attacks.)
Another universal mechanic are consumables: pills (each run has a different set of pills with different appearances matched to different effects, and the only way to find out is to take them; these are probably not feasible for Smash for multiple reasons) and tarot cards (cards with fixed effects - The Fool will always teleport you to the start of the floor, for instance). You could conceivably put a tarot card onto one of Isaac's specials somewhere - I've seen the idea of Mom's foot being the Final Smash, for instance, which could be done with the High Priestess card.
There's also a lot of items that give you blue spiders and blue flies, which are small option things that follow you around and kamikaze themselves into the nearest enemy. Maybe you could do something with that...

Then there's notable obtainable items, which is where we get into retread territory. You've already met Brimstone. I think a good contender for second- or even the most famous item is Mom's Knife. It's an item that replaces your tears with a short-ranged knife. It shows up in the Repentance logo. I get the feeling you're looking for stuff that doesn't just modify your tears but outright replaces them. If that's the case, we have the items Dr. Fetus (shoot bombs instead of tears), Epic Fetus (fire missiles from the sky instead of crying), Ipecac (explosive and poisonous lob shots)... There are some somewhat more obscure items like Spear of Destiny and Spirit Sword that are actual melee weapons.

Then there's the stuff from his boss fight. Which is mostly growing angel wings, teleporting around a bit, and covering the screen in white sky lasers. A couple of these can be replicated with items: he gets angel wings from The Bible (my personal pick if you're gonna choose one because it's kind of a relevant item), Fate, Holy Grail, or Dogma. And the white lasers come from Crack the Sky.

 

[amageish]

Hi! In a shocking plottwist, I am now posting the noms list!

Please hold for gasps of shock.

Spoiler: The Noms List

50+ noms
Farmer - x100
Masked Man - x95
Agumon - x90
Pyramid Head x80
Jace x80
Battletoads - x70
Gran/Djeeta - x60
Miriam - x55
Maxwell - x50

26-50 noms
Amaterasu - x45
Crash Bandicoot x45
Frisk - x44
Estelle Bright - x35
Chosen Undead - x35

11-25 noms
Neku Sakuraba - x25
2B - x25
Master Hand - x20
Saber - x20
Laharl - x20
Cadence - x20
Mega Man X x15
Isaac (Golden Sun) - x15
Shovel Knight - x15
Trauma Center Content - x12

5-10 noms
Daitoryo - x10
Elma - x8
Ryza - x5
Amiya - x5
Gunvolt - x5
Octoling - x5
Jill Stingray - x5
Astral Chain rep - x5
Nathan Drake - x5
Carl Johnson - x5
Under 5 noms
Sans - x2
Freedy Fazbear - x2
Alucard - x5
Jill Valentine - x1
Fillia - x1
Danganronpa rep - x1
Marco Rossi - x1
Gordon Freeman - x1
Dart Monkey - x1

This is my first time doing this, so I'm hoping everything is in order! Current top 7 is marked in bold.

 

[Technomage]

Hi! In a shocking plottwist, I am now posting the noms list!

Please hold for gasps of shock.

Spoiler: The Noms List

50+ noms
Farmer - x100
Masked Man - x95
Agumon - x90
Pyramid Head x80
Jace x80
Battletoads - x70
Gran/Djeeta - x60
Miriam - x55
Maxwell - x50

26-50 noms
Amaterasu - x45
Crash Bandicoot x45
Frisk - x44
Estelle Bright - x35
Chosen Undead - x35

11-25 noms
Neku Sakuraba - x25
2B - x25
Master Hand - x20
Saber - x20
Laharl - x20
Cadence - x20
Mega Man X x15
Isaac (Golden Sun) - x15
Shovel Knight - x15
Trauma Center Content - x12

5-10 noms
Daitoryo - x10
Elma - x8
Ryza - x5
Amiya - x5
Gunvolt - x5
Octoling - x5
Jill Stingray - x5
Astral Chain rep - x5
Nathan Drake - x5
Carl Johnson - x5
Under 5 noms
Sans - x2
Freedy Fazbear - x2
Alucard - x5
Jill Valentine - x1
Fillia - x1
Danganronpa rep - x1
Marco Rossi - x1
Gordon Freeman - x1
Dart Monkey - x1

This is my first time doing this, so I'm hoping everything is in order! Current top 7 is marked in bold.

Wait, where's the Imperial? I remember putting all my points for that character's nomination.

Edit: If the Imperial isn't eligible, then do I get to keep my points?

 

[ahemtoday]

It's time for another plot twist! I'm giving out the noms!

Spoiler

• Technomage x15 (20 total)
• C chocolatejr9 x5 (10 total)
• Commander_Alph x5 (10 total)
• Yiptap x5 (10 total)
• ahemtoday x10 (20 total)
• SharkLord x5 (10 total)
• Gengar84 x5 (10 total)

 

[Gengar84]

It's time for another plot twist! I'm giving out the noms!

Spoiler

• Technomage x15 (20 total)
• C chocolatejr9 x5 (10 total)
• Commander_Alph x5 (10 total)
• Yiptap x5 (10 total)
• ahemtoday x10 (20 total)
• SharkLord x5 (10 total)

How do the nominations work exactly? I did ask a question, which I thought was 5 nominations per question.

 

[SharkLord]

Plot twist number 3: I'm... Still changing the days as normal. I see there's a couple questions regarding the noms, so I'll give a bit of extra time for everyone to straighten everything out.

 

[ahemtoday]

How do the nominations work exactly? I did ask a question, which I thought was 5 nominations per question.

Ah, right, I missed that. You get 5 extra noms as well.

 

[Gengar84]

Ah, right, I missed that. You get 5 extra noms as well.

Thanks, no big deal. I wonder if it would be easier if I clearly marked when I ask a question by making it bold, changing the font color, or something like that? Sometimes my questions can be buried in a longer post.

I’m also kind of curious at what point I should switch characters to nominate. I don’t really want to waste my points if the character is already locked in.

 

[Technomage]

Hi! In a shocking plottwist, I am now posting the noms list!

Please hold for gasps of shock.

Spoiler: The Noms List

50+ noms
Farmer - x100
Masked Man - x95
Agumon - x90
Pyramid Head x80
Jace x80
Battletoads - x70
Gran/Djeeta - x60
Miriam - x55
Maxwell - x50

26-50 noms
Amaterasu - x45
Crash Bandicoot x45
Frisk - x44
Estelle Bright - x35
Chosen Undead - x35

11-25 noms
Neku Sakuraba - x25
2B - x25
Master Hand - x20
Saber - x20
Laharl - x20
Cadence - x20
Mega Man X x15
Isaac (Golden Sun) - x15
Shovel Knight - x15
Trauma Center Content - x12

5-10 noms
Daitoryo - x10
Elma - x8
Ryza - x5
Amiya - x5
Gunvolt - x5
Octoling - x5
Jill Stingray - x5
Astral Chain rep - x5
Nathan Drake - x5
Carl Johnson - x5
Under 5 noms
Sans - x2
Freedy Fazbear - x2
Alucard - x5
Jill Valentine - x1
Fillia - x1
Danganronpa rep - x1
Marco Rossi - x1
Gordon Freeman - x1
Dart Monkey - x1

This is my first time doing this, so I'm hoping everything is in order! Current top 7 is marked in bold.

Excuse me, can you please answer the last question I made to you:

Wait, where's the Imperial? I remember putting all my points for that character's nomination.

Edit: If the Imperial isn't eligible, then do I get to keep my points?

Oh wait, were you offline after you posted the noms? Then nevermind; I can wait longer.

 

[SharkLord]

Alright, this seems like enough time. Alright, next day: Euden (Who, despite his name, is ironically unavailable in the EU)!

Nomination: Miriam x10

 

[Technomage]

I place 20 nominations on Freddy Fazbear

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wonder what they’ll do about the Dragalia music. Isn’t much of it licensed?

 

[chocolatejr9]

breaks down door

MY TIME HAS COME!!!

And I shall use it by... reposting a writeup I did on the General Newcomer Thread:

Come sit on Papa Choco's lap and I'll tell you...

(Wait, that sounded less creepy in my head).

Euden would be our first representative from Nintendo's mobile market, which they have been trying pretty hard to get into. Not only that, he would be repping Dragalia Lost, Nintendo's first original IP on mobile, which STILL has no content in Smash whatsoever. Admittedly, Euden himself may be a bit samey, being another fire sword user. However, he could potentially come with a Dragon Shifting mechanic where he can turn into Midgardsormr, arguably the most iconic Dragon in the game. Think Pyra's transformation mechanic, except the two characters play completely differently, with Midgardsormr being a wind-based Dragon. I've also seen people suggest some sort of summoning mechanic to reference Dragalia Lost being a gacha, though admittedly I can't really imagine that working...

As for the content, the music is a definite plus, being something that everybody agrees is one of the best parts of the game. Granted, some songs may have potential issues due to being performed by actual Japanese singers (such as DAOKO and Mad Kid), but hey, we managed to get FF7 music eventually. Also, while I don't know how likely it would be, there is a chance they could include content from other CyGames properties, as similar to SNK, their games have been known to crossover with each other. In this case, content from Rage of Bahamut, Princess Connect!: Re:Dive, and maybe Granblue Fantasy should be on the table.

If it helps you any, here's a video making the case for Euden in Smash. I know I'm not the best at explaining things...

Look, I'm not the best at writeups, okay? But if you have any questions, let me know: I am the resident Dragalia Lost guy, after all...

Also, can somebody let the Euden thread know we're talking about him here? I literally JUST commented there, and I don't wanna double post.

Nominations: Agumon x10

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t really play mobile games so I haven’t had the opportunity to play Dragalia Lost. I do like Euden’s design though. What abilities does he have that can set him apart from other JRPG protagonists?

x10 Magus (Chrono Trigger)

 

[Technomage]

breaks down door

MY TIME HAS COME!!!

And I shall use it by... reposting a writeup I did on the General Newcomer Thread:



Look, I'm not the best at writeups, okay? But if you have any questions, let me know: I am the resident Dragalia Lost guy, after all...

Also, can somebody let the Euden thread know we're talking about him here? I literally JUST commented there, and I don't wanna double post.

Nominations: Agumon x10

So anything unique that Euden has that no other anime swordie has?

Edit: 'd. Different question: Alternate costumes?

 

[ahemtoday]

Hey, a character I know basically nothing about! Kinda hope to see those more often.

So, I hear this guy can turn into a dragon. I'm a dragon enthusiast, but Corrin's partial transformation thing doesn't do it for me. Tell me a little more about how this dragon thing could work?

 

[PeridotGX]

What could Euden's stage be?

Masked Man X10 (I did the How to Buy for Isaac, I should get those extra 5 noms)

 

[chocolatejr9]

I wonder what they’ll do about the Dragalia music. Isn’t much of it licensed?

Thankfully, there is some music in the game that SHOULD be allowed. Though if worst comes to worst, CyGames can pull an SNK and allow songs from their other games. Don't worry, their games crossover a lot, it would work.

I don’t really play mobile games so I haven’t had the opportunity to play Dragalia Lost. I do like Euden’s design though. What abilities does he have that can set him apart from other JRPG protagonists?

x10 Magus (Chrono Trigger)

Euden's main gimmick would be his ability to turn into a Dragon, most likely Midgardsormr were he to come to Smash. Think Pyra's gimmick, except the two play nothing alike.

So anything unique that Euden has that no other anime swordie has?

Edit: 'd. Different question: Alternate costumes?

Euden's Gala alt is a must have, especially since it actually appears in the main story. If they wanted to, they could also give him his Summer, Halloween, and New Year's outfits, though those aren't as likely.

Hey, a character I know basically nothing about! Kinda hope to see those more often.

So, I hear this guy can turn into a dragon. I'm a dragon enthusiast, but Corrin's partial transformation thing doesn't do it for me. Tell me a little more about how this dragon thing could work?

Well, unlike Corrin, Midgardsormr would more-or-less be a seperate character from Euden. A 2-in-1 fighter, essentially. He'd be much bigger, being a Dragon and all, and would have Wind-based attacks as opposed to Euden's Flame-based attacks.