Character Discussion Thread

[Spinosaurus]

I want OG Ganon before a third Link

 

[A Distant Demon]

I want OG Ganon before a third Link

This is the correct opinion

did you just change dippers?

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don't think we need three Links or Marios .

or a third Marth but that ship has already sailed...

 

[Spinosaurus]

did you just change dippers?

I have no idea what you're talking about *whistles*

But seriously, if Zelda got a newcomer, I'd prefer someone from the classic series. Ganon just fits perfectly.

 

[BluePikmin11]

But he did, and he didn't try to bring him back.

You know, based on the circumstances with trying to get a full roster by release with two games being released, there are multiple understandable reasons as to why Young Link didn't come back in the main roster, I didn't expect him to be in the main roster because of that. With DLC running right now, he certainly can try to bring back Young Link and every other veteran to satisfy the majority of Smash fans. That and the fact Sakurai is going all out on DLC to make fans happy makes me think Young Link has a good chance at coming back.

Also, he is the least desired veteran by a long shot.

But he is still a veteran people want back, and that's the thing that probably matters more than the fact he is the least desired.

How many DLC characters who have little to promote are going to be included before you realize that really isn't the be all and end all you seem to think it is?

It's not the be-all I get it, but it certainly helps him get considered over other characters from Sakurai when he's deciding characters from recently released or upcoming games. He did this for the main roster before and he'll probably do it again with DLC.

 

[A Distant Demon]

to any mods, would making a thread to advertise my character group be against the rules?

if it becomes popular you wot have to worry about people asking to reopen the threads anymore

 

[Ura]

or a third Marth but that ship has already sailed...

Don't be man. We don't even know how he'll end up being like in the game.

 

[Burruni]

Don't be man. We don't even know how he'll end up being like in the game.

Know? No. But we can make educated guesses by the changes to and .

 

[Ura]

Know? No. But we can make educated guesses by the changes to and .

Ganondorf and by default would help support Roy being decloned no?

 

[A Distant Demon]

Here we go again.

The ride never ends but it surely is repetitive

 

[Spinosaurus]

Don't be man. We don't even know how he'll end up being like in the game.

Smash values consistency. Roy will almost definitely not change.

At most, he'll get the Brawl Ganon/Falco treatment, or PM Roy. I don't mind Roy, but this is one character I can easily see why people aren't exactly happy about.

 

[Ura]

Here we go again.

The rude never ends but it surely is repetitive

I'm only bringing this up because people assert that he'll have to be a "3rd Marth" (honestly, I cringe everytime I hear 3rd Marth. I can never escape it).

Smash values consistency. Roy will almost definitely not change.

At most, he'll get the Brawl Ganon/Falco treatment, or PM Roy. I don't mind Roy, but this is one character I can easily see why people aren't exactly happy about.

Like I said before, Sakurai has had no problems changing up some characters in the past before. With a full clone in the game, don't you think theirs some initiative in his mind to change him up to be unique from Marth and Lucina?

 

[Spinosaurus]

Like I said before, Sakurai has had no problems changing up some characters in the past before. With a full clone in the game, don't you think theirs some initiative in his mind to change him up to be unique from Marth and Lucina?

I personally believe Sakurai doesn't really consider the likes of Falco, Ganon and Toon Link actual clones, and I think if he does "Luigi-fy" Roy then he'll think he's unique enough, and he would be really.

Smash has never revamped a character completely. Falco is actually the closest, twice now, but he still has the same base he always had.

 

[Ura]

I personally believe Sakurai doesn't really consider the likes of Falco, Ganon and Toon Link actual clones, and I think if he does "Luigi-fy" Roy then he'll think he's unique enough, and he would be really.

Smash has never revamped a character completely. Falco is actually the closest, twice now, but he still has the same base he always had.

What about ? The guy had 3/4ths of his specials changed. If he can do that for a character that didn't even have a clone initially, I don't see why Roy can be changed to be unique from Marth and Lucina.

 

[Spinosaurus]

What about ? The guy had 3/4ths of his specials changed. If he can do that for a character that didn't even have a clone initially, I don't see why Roy can be changed to be unique from Marth and Lucina.

Still the same normals and playstyle, though?

I mean, on a more technical level, Meta Knight changed way more than Pit despite having zero changes in his moveset. You have to look into the properties, not just specials.

 

[Ura]

Still the same normals and playstyle, though?

I mean, on a more technical level, Meta Knight changed way more than Pit despite having zero changes in his moveset. You have to look into the properties, not just specials.

In terms of properties, Roy was way different than Marth was. More so than Lucina was to Marth by a long shot. I used the Pit example to show that Sakurai is willing to change up characters if he desires. He changed up Pit because their was an initiative to make him have his weapons from Uprising just like theirs an initiative to not have 2 full clones let alone that character being charged for money. Not saying that it will absolutely happen but it's still a very likely scenario and I think people need to stop jumping the gun and yelling "3rd Marth" everywhere. For Roy to not have had the role of Marth clone in the initial roster in favor of Lucina (not saying that she's a bad character or anything) despite being really popular (to the point of being Top 2 in Japan behind Mewtwo) means their has to be a possibility that Roy will end up different than he was in Melee considering he won't be free.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I mean...Link wears tights. I don't think we can put tights down as a negative for Tingle.

Except everyone and their mother drool over Link in tights because he's the perfect way of saying "hello Robin Hood" to a man in tights


Now Tingle on the hand...isn't Batman nor Robin. He's just a tingle of a wingle

 

[Burruni]

Ganondorf and by default would help support Roy being decloned no?

No.
Here's why.

Melee -> Brawl
There were 6 clones

Three got cut.
We were left with and , a fair bit decloned from their Melee selves. We got the new clones of and which had pretty differentiated special moves and their standards were far more unique.

Brawl -> Smash 4.
Fairly Unchanged.
added as newcomer clones with barely any serious differentiation
returns from cut status with very little change other than the addition of a final smash and 2 more taunts.

Smash 4 DLC.
returns from being cut with his moveset, previously considered one of the worse original movesets due to how his tail functioned and lack of use a his Side and Down B could feasily be, got repaired from his state on par of his identity but nothing of his moveset actually got changed. His tail's hurtbox got adjusted by changing the tail's orientation, side-B now REFLECTS instead of DEFLECT down-b stun better scaled and F-throw adjusted so you can't DI out of the subsequent hits.

confirmed with minute changes without much to be seen different.

No clones saw big changes in Smash 4 and the cut Melee veterans got no overhaul. Roy, as a character in both circles, does not seem likely to get any major changes. Infact, odds are he won't be because he's being sold off the grounds THAT HE IS A VETERAN and people want him back FOR HIS MOVESET AS A VETERAN.

 

[Carter-of-DreamLand]

1. Captain Toad
2. Inkling (Splatoon)
3. Geno (Mario RPG)
4.Maxwell (Scribblenauts)
5.Cooking Mama (DS Game Series)
6. Plussel and Minun (Pokemon)
7. Wonder Red (Wonderful 101)
8.Chrom (Fire Emblem Awakening) I know he's all ready in...
9.Waddle Dee w/ Spear (Kirbys Return To Dream Land)
10.King K. Rool (DK)
Any thoughts? I tried to think of semi-unique characters...
I think this is the right thread?

 

[Burruni]

1. Captain Toad
2. Inkling (Splatoon)
3. Geno (Mario RPG)
4.Maxwell (Scribblenauts)
5.Cooking Mama (DS Game Series)
6. Plussel and Minun (Pokemon)
7. Wonder Red (Wonderful 101)
8.Chrom (Fire Emblem Awakening) I know he's all ready in...
9.Waddle Dee w/ Spear (Kirbys Return To Dream Land)
10.King K. Rool (DK)
Any thoughts? I tried to think of semi-unique characters...
I think this is the right thread?

3. Is a third party character whose company would likely elect for another character even IF somehow they struck a deal for DLC.
4. Is a character whose source material is inherently too open-e ded to narrow into a proper moveset.
6. If Pokemon is going to get a second DLC character, a veteran is more likely than characters SPECULATED to be part of the Forbidden 7.
8. He's a final smash so everything's stacked against him.
9. His name is Bandana Dee now and go hang out in our thread, Brodana Brigade!
10. Honestly is one of the most likely characters to win a slot through the ballot.

 

[N3ON]

or a third Marth but that ship has already sailed...

Except YL would make it literally three Links, not three characters with Link's general moveset like Marth will have.

You know, based on the circumstances with trying to get a full roster by release with two games being released, there are multiple understandable reasons as to why Young Link didn't come back in the main roster, I didn't expect him to be in the main roster because of that. With DLC running right now, he certainly can try to bring back Young Link and every other veteran to satisfy the majority of Smash fans. That and the fact Sakurai is going all out on DLC to make fans happy makes me think Young Link has a good chance at coming back.

But he is still a veteran people want back, and that's the thing that probably matters more than the fact he is the least desired.

But the thing is... as far as we know, he wasn't even planned.

And your reasoning as to why exactly Young Link will come back keeps changing, or at least, your main reason for why he'll come back keeps changing, and it's showing how faulty of an argument is. Because he's a veteran? Yeah, but he's not popular, there are two characters who do what he does already, and there's no reason to believe Sakurai has even cared about including him since 2001. He hasn't even shown up as a trophy in any game since Melee. Not all veterans carry the same weight.

You say he'll satisfy Smash fans, but look at the polls, look at the popularity results: there are dozens of characters that the fanbase wants more than him.

Also, I don't know what kind of reasoning allows for justification of Young Link by "the fact Sakurai is going all out on DLC to make fans happy" but not the Nintendo characters that are seemingly leading the polls.

It's not the be-all I get it, but it certainly helps him get considered over other characters from Sakurai when he's deciding characters from recently released or upcoming games. He did this for the main roster before and he'll probably do it again with DLC.

You just keep contradicting yourself. Just pages ago you said the rules no longer apply or the rules can change because it's DLC, now you're saying the rules that dictated the main roster's newcomers will determine DLC, when that very thing has already been disproven...

 

[Fire_Voyager]

The thing that makes me sad is that changed his Up, Side and Down Sp from Brawl to ssb4, but is still a semiclone...

 

[Spinosaurus]

The thing that makes me sad is that changed his Up, Side and Down Sp from Brawl to ssb4, but is still a semiclone...

They really aren't significant changes.

Pit is still the same. Ganon actually changed from Melee to Brawl.

 

[Ura]

No.
Here's why.

Melee -> Brawl
There were 6 clones

Three got cut.
We were left with and , a fair bit decloned from their Melee selves. We got the new clones of and which had pretty differentiated special moves and their standards were far more unique.

Brawl -> Smash 4.
Fairly Unchanged.
added as newcomer clones with barely any serious differentiation
returns from cut status with very little change other than the addition of a final smash and 2 more taunts.

Smash 4 DLC.
returns from being cut with his moveset, previously considered one of the worse original movesets due to how his tail functioned and lack of use a his Side and Down B could feasily be, got repaired from his state on par of his identity but nothing of his moveset actually got changed. His tail's hurtbox got adjusted by changing the tail's orientation, side-B now REFLECTS instead of DEFLECT down-b stun better scaled and F-throw adjusted so you can't DI out of the subsequent hits.

confirmed with minute changes without much to be seen different.

No clones saw big changes in Smash 4 and the cut Melee veterans got no overhaul. Roy, as a character in both circles, does not seem likely to get any major changes. Infact, odds are he won't be because he's being sold off the grounds THAT HE IS A VETERAN and people want him back FOR HIS MOVESET AS A VETERAN.

In terms of properties, Roy was way different than Marth was. More so than Lucina was to Marth by a long shot. I used the Pit example to show that Sakurai is willing to change up characters if he desires. He changed up Pit because their was an initiative to make him have his weapons from Uprising just like theirs an initiative to not have 2 full clones let alone that character being charged for money. Not saying that it will absolutely happen but it's still a very likely scenario and I think people need to stop jumping the gun and yelling "3rd Marth" everywhere. For Roy to not have had the role of Marth clone in the initial roster in favor of Lucina (not saying that she's a bad character or anything) despite being really popular (to the point of being Top 2 in Japan behind Mewtwo) means their has to be a possibility that Roy will end up different than he was in Melee considering he won't be free.

My stance on this. Also, your neglecting the fact that their hasn't been in the same position as Roy is. You can bring up all of the above but it won't change the fact that none of them are on the same boat as Roy.

Also, your claim of no clone having significant changes is false.

 

[Burruni]

My stance on this. Also, your neglecting the fact that their hasn't been in the same position as Roy is. You can bring up all of the above but it won't change the fact that none of them are on the same boat as Roy.

Also, your claim of no clones having significant changes is false.

Please, tell me what massive changes happened to and between Brawl this game to further separate them from their originals. It wouldn't be the first time I've overlooked differences.... but I play a LOT of ThunderCougarFalconDorf and Tink was one of in my top 10 played in Brawl.

And yes, none of them were in the same position as Roy is now. is our closest and depending on how much or little he changes, we will have a more affirmed guess on how much we may expect Roy to.

 

[Ura]

Please, tell me what massive changes happened to and between Brawl this game to further separate them from their originals. It wouldn't be the first time I've overlooked differences.... but I play a LOT of ThunderCougarFalconDorf and Tink was one of in my top 10 played in Brawl.

And yes, none of them were in the same position as Roy is now. is our closest and depending on how much or little he changes, we will have a more affirmed guess on how much we may expect Roy to.

And that's the thing. The only comparison we have for Roy (DLC wise) are &who have 0 reason to be changed. is a case totally unseen before in Smash and theirs a lot of things going his way for him to be decloned even if that isn't 100% the case.

 

[Burruni]

And that's the thing. The only comparison we have for Roy (DLC wise) are &who have 0 reason to be changed. is a case totally unseen before in Smash and theirs a lot of things going his way for him to be decloned even if that isn't 100% the case.

There are ways he MAY.

But we haven't seen much decloning in the transition form Brawl to Smash 4 in general.

So thus, people will most likely hold with some skepticism until proven otherwise that he WILL.

 

[BluePikmin11]

and there's no reason to believe Sakurai has even cared about including him since 2001.

And I see no reason to believe that Sakurai has not thought of Young Link at least once when considering characters for DLC even if he isn't as popular of a veterans as the others.

And TBH, I see no reason to believe that Sakurai has not thought of the opportunity of bringing every veteran back as DLC. And even if he didn't consider that thought, he has MM3D as a reminder to Sakurai that Young Link exists and that he can brought back as a character.

He hasn't even shown up as a trophy in any game since Melee. Not all veterans carry the same weight.

Not really a negative point here, Roy doesn't even have a trophy in Smash 4 (yet) and he's coming back in Smash soon.

You just keep contradicting yourself. Just pages ago you said the rules no longer apply or the rules can change because it's DLC, now you're saying the rules that dictated the main roster's newcomers will determine DLC, when that very thing has already been disproven...

Hmm... yeah I've been doing that frequently.
Though to be fair, I only stated that just the old two Link rule that can be changed I think.
That wasn't stated to be a rule in Smash 4 in the main roster.

 

[Loungemen]

https://twitter.com/smashified think they can reach there goal before tomorrow?

Shantae or riot.

I mean, with all that recognition I'm expecting ONE day she'll be drawn out and added.

 

[Ura]

There are ways he MAY.

But we haven't seen much decloning in the transition form Brawl to Smash 4 in general.

So thus, people will most likely hold with some skepticism until proven otherwise that he WILL.

Well, lets wait for E3 before jumping the gun instead of yelling out "3rd Marth" and "another clone".

 

[Burruni]

Well, lets wait for E3 before jumping the gun instead of yelling out "3rd Marth" and "another clone".

I'm saying that, if every past clone in Smash history is an indication, he certainly will have his ties to Marth as a clone. The question is to how closely they follow his identity. If foretells it as 's re-imagining also shared a fair amount of similarities to 's DLC form... it's pretty closely.

 

[False Sense]

Hmm... yeah I've been doing that frequently.
Though to be fair, I only stated that just the old two Link rule that can be changed I think.
That wasn't stated to be a rule in Smash 4 in the main roster.

He's still a pretty top candidate for DLC.

I have to ask; how can a character be a top contender for DLC when they directly contradict an established rule regarding character selection?

Yes, such rules can change, and have done so in the past. We shouldn't act as if they're absolute. But conversely, we can't just brush them off by saying that they can change, because there is no indication that they will change.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I got bored, so I decided to make a moveset for a random Pokémon. I selected Loudred, but I decided I should use a different Pokémon. So I averaged the Pokédex numbers of my favorite Pokémon, and I got #361.........Snorunt............So uh......Enjoy. I may or may not have abused Secret Power.
Ground Attacks
Neutral Attack-Smacks the opponent with a cluster of needles three times
Dash Attack-Slams onto the ground as hard as it can
Forward Tilt-Headbutts
Up Tilt-Jumps while spinning around
Down Tilt-Summons an avelanche in front of it
Forward Smash-Throws a rock
Up Smash-Pink wind damages opponents over Snorunt
Down Smash-Summons an electric barrier
Areals
Neutral Aerial-Spins around with vines encircling it
Forward Aerial-Summons a semi-homing leaf
Back Aerial-Fires mud behind it
Up Aerial-A gust of wind blows opponents over Snorunt
Down Aerial-Turns upside down, and shoots straight down while spinning
Grab & Throws
Grab: Grabs. Super ultra-short.
Pummel-Bites
Forward Throw-Throws the opponent
Back Throw-Throws the opponent behind him
Up Throw-Throws upward
Down Throw-Throws into the ground. Burying the opponent.
Misc, Specials, and Final Smash
Floor-Summons hail as he gets up.
Edge-Summons hail on the ledge as he gets up.
Neutral Special-Icy Wind: Acts like Flamethrower, but can freeze opponents
Side Special-Round: Fires a projectile that gets stronger the more you use it
Up Special-Ice Beam: Fires a beam that can freeze opponents downward
Down Special-Protect: Pushes back opponents that hit Snorunt
Final Smash-Confide: Snorunt tells the opponent something so scary that it deals massive damage to the opponent.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

If foretells it as 's re-imagining also shared a fair amount of similarities to 's DLC form...

Unless i misunderstood you, its the other way around. " also shared a fair amount of similarities to " would be more correct since came first. Just sayin'.

returns from being cut with his moveset, previously considered one of the worse original movesets due to how his tail functioned and lack of use a his Side and Down B could feasily be, got repaired from his state on par of his identity but nothing of his moveset actually got changed. His tail's hurtbox got adjusted by changing the tail's orientation, side-B now REFLECTS instead of DEFLECT down-b stun better scaled and F-throw adjusted so you can't DI out of the subsequent hits.

Nah, is better. They actually fixed his weight (he is a middleweight rather than 2nd lightest character in the game), he has insane wavedash that fixes his slow movement issues on the ground and hover that improves his movement in the air, Disable stuns even if opponent doesn't faces him and isn't on eye level and also deals knockback and 10% damage if opponent is in the air, none of his throws are nerfed, he can double jump cancel, he isn't as big, Shadow Ball deals damage when charged and doesn't takes as much time to charge, Confusion has its very usefl platform glitch, Teleport is pretty much lagless and doesn't puts him into helpless state if he has his midair jump, his Final Smash always kills (i've seen enough times when 's Psystrike failed to kill during BrainScratchComms' livestream while i never saw anyone survive 's Psystrike, and many other things. So, is a lot better. And the only moveset change he has outside of Final Smash (which doesn't counts because every character must have one, so, it can't be avoided unlike things like making Confusion actually reflect stuff, which is just a buff that always was needed, but not absolutely necessary) are FThrow (which was a forced change since you can't just add new projectiles for Brawl character mods) and addition of Hover, which, while useful, isn't the only reason why he is good.
Still think they should make all character at least close to their Melee Top Tiers or bring those closer to others. First option is better though - Melee guys won't be really mad because their mains were nerfed.

 

[Diddy Kong]

PM Mewtwo is one of the best characters in the game. DLC 4 Mewtwo is probably lucky to break middle tier. That's a huge difference there. Smash 4's Mewtwo is in every aspect worse than PM Mewtwo, and even suffered nerfs from Melee Mewtwo while PM Mewtwo was basically Melee Mewtwo on some serious steriods. HUGE difference. It's like comparing Sheik with Zelda

 

[BaganSmashBros]

PM Mewtwo is one of the best characters in the game. DLC 4 Mewtwo is probably lucky to break middle tier. That's a huge difference there. Smash 4's Mewtwo is in every aspect worse than PM Mewtwo, and even suffered nerfs from Melee Mewtwo while PM Mewtwo was basically Melee Mewtwo on some serious steriods. HUGE difference. It's like comparing Sheik with Zelda

No, has higher range because his tail is longer and he is just bigger. At least after had his tail length decreased by 15% in 3.5. But thats it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

But didn't get rid of the tail sweetspot stuff, so that he could utalise the full lenght of his tail?

still has this -like sweetspot in the middle of his tail.

So even though 's range is longer, utalises his range better.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

But didn't get rid of the tail sweetspot stuff, so that he could utalise the full lenght of his tail?

still has this -like sweetspot in the middle of his tail.

So even though 's range is longer, utalises his range better.

No, they just moved them around (some sweetspots are at the tip, others at the base).

Its better to have more range than being able to properly use low range. And damage difference isn't that high between sourspot and sweetspot anyway.

 

[Andinus]

Yeah... looking at how Mewtwo turned out, I don't have a lot of faith that Roy will be significantly different from his Melee incarnation. Maybe some of his attacks will have "teh phire" but anyone who thinks he's going to get a complete reworking is going to be sorely disappointed.

Not that I necessarily think that Roy will get a move set overhaul, but in mewtwo's case he did not need a move set overhaul (he needed a kill power boost and weight boost unfortunately only one of which he got.) but Roy potentially mimicking two characters already in the game, I could at least see getting some fairly distinctive tweaks.

 

[Burruni]

Not that I necessarily think that Roy will get a move set overhaul, but in mewtwo's case he did not need a move set overhaul (he needed a kill power boost and weight boost unfortunately only one of which he got.) but Roy potentially mimicking two characters already in the game, I could at least see getting some fairly distinctive tweaks.

That... is the point we're trying to make.
He could get tweaks to give him decloning on par that got between Melee and Brawl. He could get even more.

But with how little pre-existant clones got to further differentiate themselves and the fact that got his moveset adjusted to be more functional.. A facelift to his kit, but nothing really getting swapped out....

We are erring on the side of caution of how much we are expecting him to get changed, especially when how much he may or may not be changed is being used as a springboard to say that another cut Melee veteran could receive three entirely new specials moves and other tweaks (which in my opinion makes him end up more as a Newcomer with a veteran's name than a veteran DLC as we put it).