Character Discussion Thread

[BluePikmin11]

TBH even if he wasn't changed, that doesn't mean Young Link won't change either.
Roy has enough notable differences from Marth and Lucina (him relying on the middle of the sword for his playstyle and his neutral special) to pretty much keep him the same as he was in Melee. Heck, even Pichu's damage gimmick and his different hitbox is enough to make his moveset unchanged if he was added in Smash 4.

Young Link is literally one of the only two clone characters (The other being Dark Pit) has barely noticeable differences from Toon Link and Link that would make him stand-out, him getting a few new special moves would certainly justify his inclusion as DLC and wouldn't alienate the fans and act more as a plus to his inclusion. With all the time Sakurai has to make DLC, I wouldn't be surprised if Young Link was the only one to get a bit of a moveset overhaul.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

TBH even if he wasn't changed, that doesn't mean Young Link won't change either.
Roy has enough notable differences from Marth and Lucina (him relying on the middle of the sword for his playstyle and his neutral special) to pretty much keep him the same as he was in Melee. Heck, even Pichu's damage gimmick and his different hitbox is enough to make his moveset unchanged if he was added in Smash 4.

Young Link is literally one of the only three clone characters (The other being Dark Pit, and Dr. Mario) has barely noticeable differences from Toon Link and Link that would make him stand-out, him getting a few new special moves would certainly justify his inclusion as DLC and wouldn't alienate the fans and act more as a plus to his inclusion. With all the time Sakurai has to make DLC, I wouldn't be surprised if Young Link was the only one to get a moveset overhaul.

Fixed.
Even so. I think Sakuri's definition of moveset overhaul is what he did to Charizard, so I'm not expecting that much change. (Still want the Song of Time to be a recovery move.)

 

[IceBreakerXY]

If we gotta have a DLC zelda character Impa,Vaati,and most definitely Tetra(She should of gotten in instead of T.link).I wouldn't mind if young link beuase i honestly want all vets to come back.But the odds of him getting a new moveset are super short

 

[Burruni]

Fixed.
Even so. I think Sakuri's definition of moveset overhaul is what he did to Charizard, so I'm not expecting that much change. (Still want the Song of Time to be a recovery move.)

Dr. Mario has a different Down special and D-air entirely from normal Mario, his f-air is more like Ganondorf's than Mario's, his pills have custom special tier difference and has overall slower speed for harder hitting moves.

Edit: And both DP and Doc were rushed late add ons made from already programmed alt costumes. Not a DLC fighter made from the ground up.

 

[False Sense]

TBH even if he wasn't changed, that doesn't mean Young Link won't change either.
Roy has enough notable differences from Marth and Lucina (him relying on the middle of the sword for his playstyle and his neutral special) to pretty much keep him the same as he was in Melee. Heck, even Pichu's damage gimmick and his different hitbox is enough to make his moveset unchanged if he was added in Smash 4.

Young Link is literally one of the only two clone characters (The other being Dark Pit) has barely noticeable differences from Toon Link and Link that would make him stand-out, him getting a few new special moves would certainly justify his inclusion as DLC and wouldn't alienate the fans and act more as a plus to his inclusion. With all the time Sakurai has to make DLC, I wouldn't be surprised if Young Link was the only one to get a moveset overhaul.

So, if I understand correctly...

Young Link is a character that is so similar to other characters on the roster (a fact that has resulted in minimal demand for him) that they'd have to put in extra effort to differentiate him just to justify his inclusion?

I just don't see why they would do that. At least Roy has a truly sizable fanbase that would buy him in a heartbeat, and they don't even have to change him much for him to sell well. Why would they put more effort into making a character that isn't as guaranteed to sell?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Dr. Mario has a different Down special and D-air entirely from normal Mario, his f-air is more like Ganondorf's than Mario's, his pills have custom special tier difference and has overall slower speed for harder hitting moves.

Learn something new everyday. (Well I knew about the down special, but everything else not so much.)

So, if I understand correctly...

Young Link is a character that is so similar to other characters on the roster (a fact that has resulted in minimal demand for him) that they'd have to put in extra effort to differentiate him just to justify his inclusion?

I just don't see why they would do that. At least Roy has a truly sizable fanbase that would buy him in a heartbeat, and they don't even have to change him much for him to sell well. Why would they put more effort into making a character that isn't as guaranteed to sell?

I don't think that's what she meant. (Or he. I should stop assuming gender based off of profile pictures. Luckily she/he didn't notice)

 

[N3ON]

TBH even if he wasn't changed, that doesn't mean Young Link won't change either.
Roy has enough notable differences from Marth and Lucina (him relying on the middle of the sword for his playstyle and his neutral special) to pretty much keep him the same as he was in Melee. Heck, even Pichu's damage gimmick and his different hitbox is enough to make his moveset unchanged if he was added in Smash 4.

Young Link is literally one of the only two clone characters (The other being Dark Pit) has barely noticeable differences from Toon Link and Link that would make him stand-out, him getting a few new special moves would certainly justify his inclusion as DLC and wouldn't alienate the fans and act more as a plus to his inclusion. With all the time Sakurai has to make DLC, I wouldn't be surprised if Young Link was the only one to get a moveset overhaul.

You wouldn't be surprised if an undesired clone who was cut two games ago with no evidence of ever being attempted to be brought back received a moveset overhaul (something that... hasn't really ever happened past a couple moves) even though there are already two Links on the roster with Sakurai saying Links share their movesets "as a rule"?

Why am I not surprised?

 

[BluePikmin11]

So, if I understand correctly...

Young Link is a character that is so similar to other characters on the roster (a fact that has resulted in minimal demand for him) that they'd have to put in extra effort to differentiate him just to justify his inclusion?

I just don't see why they would do that. At least Roy has a truly sizable fanbase that would buy him in a heartbeat, and they don't even have to change him much for him to sell well. Why would they put more effort into making a character that isn't as guaranteed to sell?

Man you always use the fanbase as an excuse to not add Young Link do you.
The moveset overhaul would be the reason to buy Young Link to give him a new different appeal.
I have a feeling you'll be proven wrong when at least one un-popular character is added as DLC, whether it be Young Link or not. If he's not notably different at all, there would be less of a real reason to buy him.

You wouldn't be surprised if an undesired clone who was cut two games ago with no evidence of ever being attempted to be brought back received a moveset overhaul (something that... hasn't really ever happened past a move or two) even though there are already two Links on the roster with Sakurai saying Links share their movesets "as a rule"?

Why am I not surprised?

A rule that can be easily be discarded when DLC characters are being decided on. And I said just special moves to be fair, I don't see his any other move aside from specials being changed at all for the sake of reducing clone development time.

 

[Burruni]

Learn something new everyday. (Well I knew about the down special, but everything else not so much.)

I don't think that's what she meant.

The up special is one strong hotbox at the start and a weak one for the distance.
Cape has a longer hitbox with worse end lag.
Pills have a wonky and unique bouncing trajectory. Maaaybe a damage & knock back difference

Basically, same Melee differences but is more unique from Mario as some middle ground between the Bros. because Mr. Red Cap changed a fair bit in brawl.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I swear its the same thing every time I come into this thread.

"This character is likely +reasons"

"No he's not + Sakurai"

Chrom, "ANYTHING CAN CHANGE!"

 

[N3ON]

A rule that can be easily be discarded when DLC characters are being decided on. And I said just special moves to be fair, I don't see his any other move aside from specials being changed at all for the sake of reducing clone development time.

There's a difference between the rules we make and the rules Sakurai says are rules. It's not like people are expecting non-video game characters and characters who have never been on a Nintendo system.

DLC doesn't change the fact that Young Link is still a Link, and the rule applies to Links, not to initial roster characters vs. DLC characters. You're just looking for reasons now.

But even regardless of all that, you've glossed over all the other stuff that is most certainly not in YL's favour, like the existing Links and the fact that he was never attempted to be brought back, unlike Mewtwo, Doc, and Roy. Plus the fact that no character has ever had all their specials changed.

 

[Champ Gold]

Fox. .................Honestly, I don't know the Star Fox cast enough to be thrilled about either.

It's not hard. Outside of Wolf, Slippy and Krystal has much more advantage because they'll both have unique move sets and easily avoid the 'blaster, illusion, shine and fire' moves

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Young Link wouldn't get in the way of Impa, I'd like his inclusion. The idea posted in the Young Link thread about making him a sort of 64 Jigglypuff styled clone, meaning full clone except for B moves. But I don't see it happening, Pichu neither even though I'd like it back to. If they can bother to make them, I'd like them. But I don't want them over new characters. Also, I think the Mii outfits of Link and Skull Kid count as Sakurai's way of nodding Majora's Mask. So I'm really not expecting much for Young Link.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Watch we get a surprise update before E3 that adds new victory themes for other characters and causes the fanbase to go wild with speculation.

And watch one of those additions be Ridley, too.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The up special is one strong hotbox at the start and a weak one for the distance.
Cape has a longer hitbox with worse end lag.
Pills have a wonky and unique bouncing trajectory. Maaaybe a damage & knock back difference

Basically, same Melee differences but is more unique from Mario as some middle ground between the Bros. because Mr. Red Cap changed a fair bit in brawl.

His cape also doesn't do squat with recoveries.

If Young Link wouldn't get in the way of Impa, I'd like his inclusion. The idea posted in the Young Link thread about making him a sort of 64 Jigglypuff styled clone, meaning full clone except for B moves. But I don't see it happening, Pichu neither even though I'd like it back to. If they can bother to make them, I'd like them. But I don't want them over new characters. Also, I think the Mii outfits of Link and Skull Kid count as Sakurai's way of nodding Majora's Mask. So I'm really not expecting much for Young Link.

It's DLC we are talking about here. Nobody is getting in over anyone. If someone has low priority, they will be delayed at most. The only hurdle a character needs to jump is getting chosen.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Ridley,

its ironic because im currently making a ridley thread.

 

[Burruni]

If Young Link wouldn't get in the way of Impa, I'd like his inclusion. The idea posted in the Young Link thread about making him a sort of 64 Jigglypuff styled clone, meaning full clone except for B moves. But I don't see it happening, Pichu neither even though I'd like it back to. If they can bother to make them, I'd like them. But I don't want them over new characters. Also, I think the Mii outfits of Link and Skull Kid count as Sakurai's way of nodding Majora's Mask. So I'm really not expecting much for Young Link.

64 Jiggs was not a full Kirby clone "except for B moves." N-air, U-Air, F-Throw, jab combo and the unique factor of Jiggs dying if her shield broke alone are differences I know by heart.

 

[Ura]

What if they bundled Young Link and Pichu at the price of 1 DLC character? I think that would get people to buy the characters even if theirs no changes made to them.

As a YLink fan, I would love to see that happen.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I swear its the same thing every time I come into this thread.

"This character is likely +reasons"

"No he's not + Sakurai"

Chrom, "ANYTHING CAN CHANGE!"

Speculation in a nutshell.

It's not hard. Outside of Wolf, Slippy and Krystal has much more advantage because they'll both have unique move sets and easily avoid the 'blaster, illusion, shine and fire' moves

I have to know specifics of a character to support them. Pretty much all I know about Krystal, and Slippy is that they exist. Maybe Star Fox Wii U can change that. :3

What if they bundled Young Link and Pichu at the price of 1 DLC character? I think that would get people to buy the characters even if theirs no changes made to them.

As a YLink fan, I would love to see that happen.

I think it would be smarter to bundle Young Link and Pichu with more popular characters, but it would still be awesome.

 

[N3ON]

I don't think it's a matter of getting it to sell, I think based solely on the virtue of it being Smash DLC, let alone veterans, it'll sell. Probably not as well as the other characters, but still well enough. It's more a matter of Sakurai and his team choosing to work on those characters, which I honestly don't imagine they would, especially Young Link.

I'm not expecting Pichu either but at least he's not just another version of an existing character (character-wise, not moveset-wise), and there's no existing Pikachu clones already on there.

I think as far as veterans go, after Wolf and Roy that's going to be it, though Snake wouldn't surprise me too much.

 

[Ura]

That's the charm of speculating. We all get to speculate on what we think might happen and then boom something completely unexpected happens (for better or worse).

Also, I just want all veterans to return to the series even though some might not end up coming back.

I think as far as veterans go, after Wolf and Roy that's going to be it, though Snake wouldn't surprise me too much.

Roy and Wolf are defiantly the most likely but man would it be great to have the IC's and Snake back in the game! Maybe they'll get in via the ballot. Fan support for them is pretty good.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't think it's a matter of getting it to sell, I think based solely on the virtue of it being Smash DLC, let alone veterans, it'll sell. Probably not as well as the other characters, but still well enough. It's more a matter of Sakurai and his team choosing to work on those characters, which I honestly don't imagine they would, especially Young Link.

I'm not expecting Pichu either but at least he's not just another version of an existing character (character-wise, not moveset-wise), and there's no existing Pikachu clones already on there.

I think as far as veterans go, after Wolf and Roy that's going to be it, though Snake wouldn't surprise me too much.

(Squirtle and Ivysaur peek at you from around the corner)

That's the charm of speculating. We all get to speculate on what we think might happen and then boom something completely unexpected happens (for better or worse).

Also, I just want all veterans to return to the series even though some might not end up coming back.

Same here

 

[BluePikmin11]

But even regardless of all that, you've just glossed over all the other stuff that is most certainly not in YL's favour, like the existing Links and the fact that he was never attempted to be brought back, unlike Mewtwo, Doc, and Roy: the cut Melee characters that are going to be DLC.

I think you are also glossing over his positives here too:
1. He has a recently released game (MM3D) starring him as the main character.
2. Part of two of the most critically acclaimed and important Zelda games of all time.
3. One of the few recurring Zelda characters who has more notable appearances than Tetra and Vaati.
4. The fact that he is a veteran that some people want back, and the fact that Sakurai doesn't like removing characters from past Smash games

I'd argue that these positives (especially point 1) are certainly enough to give Sakurai a refreshed point of view and gives him legitimate reasons on adding Young Link as DLC.

I'm done ranting here now, I gotta concentrate on updating my Best Miiverse Drawings thread now. I've already been ranting Young Link for a long time now, now it's just to the point it's an agree to disagree.

Also, I think the Mii outfits of Link and Skull Kid count as Sakurai's way of nodding Majora's Mask. So I'm really not expecting much for Young Link.

Hmm... you know I never really thought about that, but he is a veteran that some fans want back though.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I kinda feel like Konami is a bigger hurdle to getting Snake back than we actually think.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don't think Roy will be changed either...

Yeah... looking at how Mewtwo turned out, I don't have a lot of faith that Roy will be significantly different from his Melee incarnation. Maybe some of his attacks will have "teh phire" but anyone who thinks he's going to get a complete reworking is going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Do you support a character that has a predefined role in super smash bros? Ghirahim? Takamaru? Ridley? Dark samus? Saki? Lyn?

than visit here
http://smashboards.com/social-forums/predefined-role-character-support.1812/
please. i spent a good 5 minutes on this and it is lonely.

PS does anyone remember by original avi when i first joined? the one with waluigi crying in his assist trophy with Ridley squeezed into another? i feel it would fit perfectly.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I kinda feel like Konami is a bigger hurdle to getting Snake back than we actually think.

Oh god, I thought he'd be impossible because Konami hates gaming (YOU HAD ONE JOB WITH SILENT HILLS AND THE HD COLLECTION), the new head having a power trip or something, Konami making more of a success with Pachinko machines and because Kojima left

 

[BluePikmin11]

The fact that Snake is a veteran people want back and the fact he is very unique is enough for me to expect him back in the game really, I don't think Konami's circumstances matter to Sakurai.

 

[Burruni]

Oh god, I thought he'd be impossible because Konami hates gaming (YOU HAD ONE JOB WITH SILENT HILLS AND THE HD COLLECTION), the new head having a power trip or something, Konami making more of a success with Pachinko machines and because Kojima left

And that the only reason Snake ever got in was a personal favor to Kojima.

 

[N3ON]

I think you are also glossing over his positives here too:
1. He has a recently released game (MM3D) starring him as the main character.

And that promotional window has come and gone.

2. Part of two of the most critically acclaimed and important Zelda games of all time.

Fat lot of help that did him for the last two rosters.

3. One of the few recurring Zelda characters who has more notable appearances than Tetra and Vaati.

That's why we already have two Links.

4. The fact that he is a veteran that some people want back, and the fact that Sakurai doesn't like removing characters from past Smash games

But he did, and he didn't try to bring him back.

Also, he is the least desired veteran by a long shot.

I'd argue that these positives (especially point 1) are certainly enough to give Sakurai a refreshed point of view and gives him legitimate reasons on adding Young Link as DLC.

Yeah, you would argue promotion, but when has that ever resulted in a Zelda character being added? This isn't GF, this isn't even IS, there is no precedent of Zelda, or EAD as a whole, using Smash as a means of promotion, past the promotion that naturally comes with it.

How many DLC characters who have little to promote are going to be included before you realize that really isn't the be all and end all you seem to think it is?

Roy and Wolf are defiantly the most likely but man would it be great to have the IC's and Snake back in the game! Maybe they'll get in via the ballot. Fan support for them is pretty good.

Snake maybe but ICs are a whole different story that doesn't just revolve around Sakurai simply opting to include them or not.

(Squirtle and Ivysaur peek at you from around the corner)

And around the corner is where I believe they'll stay...

 

[Wintropy]

Sakurai did bring back Young Link.

Look, he's right here.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And that the only reason Snake ever got in was a personal favor to Kojima.

Oops, didn't type that. Thanks for feex~

After thinking about it, K.Rool has gotten more support recently, and I've wanted him more. Still prefer BDee and He Who Eats Mothers regardless

 

[Ura]

Sakurai did bring back Young Link.

Look, he's right here.

Kill it with fire!

Yeah... looking at how Mewtwo turned out, I don't have a lot of faith that Roy will be significantly different from his Melee incarnation. Maybe some of his attacks will have "teh phire" but anyone who thinks he's going to get a complete reworking is going to be sorely disappointed.

With a full clone in the game already and many fans voicing their disdain at the prospect of 2 full clones in the game, the possibility of Roy being decloned isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. And really, why would Mewtwo or Lucas have any reason to have their movesets changed? Roy is the only one that needs a moveset change to not be a second full clone.

 

[False Sense]

Man you always use the fanbase as an excuse to not add Young Link do you.
The moveset overhaul would be the reason to buy Young Link to give him a new different appeal.
I have a feeling you'll be proven wrong when at least one un-popular character is added as DLC, whether it be Young Link or not. If he's not notably different at all, there would be less of a real reason to buy him.

Let's not make this personal, alright?

Anyway, here's the thing; you say the new moveset would be the reason for people to buy Young Link. But why should they put that effort into Young Link in the first place? On his own, Young Link is not the type of character that will automatically sell well. A new moveset would make him more appealing and serve as an incentive for people to purchase him, yes, but there's an opportunity cost to that.

Let's break this down a bit; why would they choose to add Young Link in the first place? Frankly, there's only one reason Young Link is even considered as a candidate: he's a veteran. So why does being a veteran help a character's chances? For one, the character was already playable at one point, and consequently, they already have a working moveset and playstyle designed. All that needs to be done is for them to be rebuilt and rebalanced, so it's easier to make than a brand new character. Secondly, with most veterans, their previous playable status has earned them a sizable fanbase that would love to see them return. Most veterans are nearly guaranteed to do well as DLC.

Young Link, however, doesn't exactly have these same benefits. Despite being a veteran, his fanbase is rather small, especially when compared to those of Mewtwo, Lucas, Wolf, and Roy. Furthermore, if we assume that he needs to be revamped to be appealing to customers, then he no longer has the benefit of being easy to develop. He'd more or less have the cost of a brand new character when it comes to making him into a playable character, and without a guaranteed audience for him. So, if he'd cost as much to make as a brand new character, why not take the time and effort required to remake Young Link and invest it in a character with an audience, like a popular ballot character? Same cost, more benefits.

Honestly, from the developers' perspective, what's the appeal in making Young Link DLC?

 

[A Distant Demon]

The fact that Snake is a veteran people want back and the fact he is very unique is enough for me to expect him back in the game really, I don't think Konami's circumstances matter to Sakurai.

yes sakurai is just going to ignore laws and put in snake without permission. Right



PS to any mods would making a thread to advertise that group be against the rules?

 

[Ura]

Having 3 Links would make a lot of sense actually (granted their able to make YLink a semi clone as opposed to a full clone).

Toon Link represents the Adult Timeline, Young Link represents the Child Timeline, and Link represents the Downfall Timeline (as well as the Timeline pre-OoT).

 

[Burruni]

Having 3 Links would make a lot of sense actually (granted their able to make YLink a semi clone as opposed to a full clone).

Toon Link represents the Adult Timeline, Young Link represents the Child Timeline, and Link represents the Downfall Timeline (as well as the Timeline pre-OoT).

Ey look we're using character merit on BEING A REPRESENTATIVE and not the minimal value of the character.

 

[Rockaphin]

Young Link is a funny way to spell a third Mario. It's spelled, "Paper Mario" guys...



Please understand... I'm bored...

 

[Pakky]

I don't think we need three Links or Marios, regardless of how different they may be. I also think we don't need anymore pokemon, there are so many other characters to choose from why focus on these three series, two of which, honestly don't need any more reps. The two being Mario and Pokemon.

 

[Champ Gold]

Young Link is a funny way to spell a third Mario. It's spelled, "Paper Mario" guys...



Please understand... I'm bored...

We don't need a third Link or a third Mario but what we need is a third Samus and a third Pit.

All for the great Gunpei-Sama