Character Discussion Thread

[BluePikmin11]

May be true, doesn't mean they'll be in Smash.

Again, I'm not saying she'll be in Smash automatically because she's the closest.

Isn't that exactly Sakurai stresses every time he talks about a third party in Smash.

He didn't never specifically say they have to be big icons, even though the trend has been continuing with Snake since.
If the ballot is any indication, he seems to be open to almost every third-party idea character the people vote highly in the ballot, so popular indies and other decently popular third-party franchises are pretty much fair game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Something the Kutthroats mentioned. There's going to be a FE concert in July that Sakurai's going to after E3

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Again, I'm not saying she'll be in Smash automatically because she's the closest.


He didn't never specifically say they have to be big icons, even though the trend has been continuing with Snake since.
If the ballot is any indication, he seems to be open to almost every third-party idea character the people vote highly in the ballot, so popular indies and other decently popular third-party franchises are pretty much fair game.

I think you're stretching it. Saying that the ballot makes every character a likely choice (paraphrasing) is simply not true. You still have to meet his standards for character selection. Not to mention, every 3rd Party we've seen has been super iconic. All 5 of them. Why is Bayonetta an exception?

Just because a character places high on the ballot doesn't mean they get a free pass into Smash. They still have to meet standards, hence why Shovel Knight and others probably won't happen even if they place high.

I own Bayonetta 2 and I think it's a great game. But thinking she's got good chances? That's a stretch.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Damn it, I'll be at boot camp when the Fire Emblem event happens. If they do reveal Roy at that time I won't be able to see his reveal until several months later.

 

[EmceeEspio]

I think you're stretching it. Saying that the ballot makes every character a likely choice (paraphrasing) is simply not true. You still have to meet his standards for character selection. Not to mention, every 3rd Party we've seen has been super iconic. All 5 of them. Why is Bayonetta an exception?

Just because a character places high on the ballot doesn't mean they get a free pass into Smash. They still have to meet standards, hence why Shovel Knight and others probably won't happen even if they place high.

I own Bayonetta 2 and I think it's a great game. But thinking she's got good chances? That's a stretch.

This is true. As much as it hurts a Geno/Quote/Shantae/Layton supporter (I support all of them), This is likely true.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Did I say it would make them a likely choice? No, but it certainly gives almost every third party a chance to get in Smash.
As far as standards go, Shovel Knight and Bayonetta have been pretty successful (can mean critically acclaimed or popular) franchises as of recent. (more notable than most games that released in 2014 and most average games that get released everyday) They certainly meet the standards to get in as DLC.

 

[JamesDNaux]

If you think Bayonetta has a chance at all you're already thinking she's more likely than she actually is.


Bayonetta never would have had a sequel and it probably won't again. She's less iconic than Sir Dan from Medieval.



Cue "who's Dan?"

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Again, I'm not saying she'll be in Smash automatically because she's the closest.


He didn't never specifically say they have to be big icons, even though the trend has been continuing with Snake since.
If the ballot is any indication, he seems to be open to almost every third-party idea character the people vote highly in the ballot, so popular indies and other decently popular third-party franchises are pretty much fair game.

Brb, gonna vote Teemo for Smash.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Brb, gonna vote Teemo for Smash.

he is an emote for a reason

plz no I hate LOL and its community

 

[WeirdChillFever]

he is an emote for a reason

plz no I hate LOL and its community

But he represents Mushrooms and popularity mushrooms are a common trope Sak standards don exsits.

 

[A Distant Demon]

But he represents Mushrooms and popularity mushrooms are a common trope Sak standards don exsits.

toad is clearly the better mushroom rep

besides invisibility already doesnt work in smash.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

toad is clearly the better mushroom rep

besides invisibility already doesnt work in smash.

Yeah he'd be a mewtwo clone with disable duh.

 

[Twewy]

The best mushroom rep is the Mushroom dudes from Dark Souls, obviously. Another Bamco rep and someone that's super strong.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Every candidate has a chance as long the ballot exists.

And I don't think your comparison with Sir Dan is fair, especially if you're using sales to prove iconicness. There's more things involved than just sales to prove that they are more iconic.

Brb, gonna vote Teemo for Smash.

Stop, you know not all ideas can be done and it's not really helping your case at all. As there are probably characters that will be taken seriously if they aren't:
-videogame characters
-obscure and unpopular third-party characters
-minor Nintendo characters like Gangrel or the Piantas
-and videogame characters that have not been on a Nintendo console.

In this case, Bayonetta and Shovel Knight don't break any of those rules.

 

[dezeray112]

Huh. Well this is interesting:

https://mobile.twitter.com/LTNintendo/status/588938332891176960

Interesting indeed.

 

[TKactual]

Literally all I would want at this point for a third party character would be Lloyd Irving but even though capcom gets two reps now I doubt namco or sega will get the same treatment. I suppose according to some people he wouldn't be iconic enough either for some reason. Funny enough he as a third party character probably has more of a chance then the other character I want in.... The grunt from battalion wars.

 

[JamesDNaux]

This is the best outcome I could possibly see, but even then Banjo getting in would be nothing short of a miracle.

 

[Deleted member]

Huh. Well this is interesting:

https://mobile.twitter.com/LTNintendo/status/588938332891176960

Are Let's Talk Nintendo by any means affiliated with the company or are they just fans?

Hmm so we think 10ish DLC characters are possible? If we're locked in for Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, and Ryu, I normally would have guessed they'd do one or two more characters from the poll, but it's really going to be interesting to see what happens now. Two Capcom characters = Bayonetta has a serious shot. Especially if Nintendo does plan to continue the serious exclusively (though she could always be saved for the next game ) I still think Wolf is a lock too..

I don't know about 10+ characters, but seven to nine characters I feel is highly likely.

You doubt, but I don't think Sakurai will be concerned on the future for Bayonetta when it comes to her inclusion, he's just looking for good candidates he can put as DLC.

I'm pretty sure there are many good Nintendo (and a few good third-party) characters they could use before having to resort to an obscure third-party character who couldn't even get a sequel without Nintendo.

You're also forgetting that the sequel is also one of the highest critical acclaimed games on the Wii U, enough to get nominated at the Game Awards 2014. That certainly is a plus for Bayonetta too despite the sales.

Which doesn't really say much. By that logic, Shovel Knight would be a good choice because his game was critically acclaimed. Third-party character need to have a lot more than just great games to be worthwhile additions.

I'm not trying to compare her to those icons. I said:

She may not be as iconic, but she certainly has a decently popular enough franchise to be a third-party guest in Smash.
And again, not all have to be compared to the larger icons in order to get in Smash.

But the five third-parties we already have sets a precedence that a third-party must be legendary in order to be considered for Smash. If we're going to have more, why not go for someone like Bomberman before we step down to a character that can barely stand on her own feet?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Anjean.

Spirit Train - wheelchair accessible!

Big set of stairs says otherwise.

Again, I'm not saying she'll be in Smash automatically because she's the closest.


He didn't never specifically say they have to be big icons, even though the trend has been continuing with Snake since.
If the ballot is any indication, he seems to be open to almost every third-party idea character the people vote highly in the ballot, so popular indies and other decently popular third-party franchises are pretty much fair game.

Sorry for thinking you wanted to talk about SSB here.
I meant to say a recent non-Sonic SEGA character isn't a big feat.

Open doesn't mean every third party who gets a good amount of votes is in.
The ballot is probably not going to change the rules Sakurai himself has stressed multiple times.
These aren't fan rules based on a two-time patterm, these are Sakurai's guidelines.
Aside from stressing this multiple times, even his actions show this, as as you said: Every 3rd party has shown this.

It's still a guess, because Sakurai can change his mind and we can't look in his mind, but if I dare to say it, it's a pretty educated one based on what Sakurai has said.

 

[yani]

Oh man that Banjo icon makes me way too happy!

In regards to Bayonetta, while Capcom having two characters doesn't necessarily increase her chances in the sense of each company is getting two characters, but more in the sense of the poll could seriously be "anything goes" where a character like Banjo-Kazooie or Bayonetta can actually be considered because of sheer fan demand. Whether she'll actually prevail in the poll however is another story.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Huh. Well this is interesting:

https://mobile.twitter.com/LTNintendo/status/588938332891176960

That's not until July though and E3's in June so maybe Sakurai might show Ryu and someone else at E3?

 

[Frostwraith]

Are Let's Talk Nintendo by any means affiliated with the company or are they just fans?

Just fans.

But the link to the Japanese site in the tweet is proof to back their claims.

 

[MagnesD3]

This is the best outcome I could possibly see, but even then Banjo getting in would be nothing short of a miracle.

You know god is real if BK becomes playable in smash bros.

 

[JaidynReiman]

That's not until July though and E3's in June so maybe Sakurai might show Ryu and someone else at E3?

Ryu, Wolf, and the most hyped Nintendo newcomer: King K. Rool! ...maybe...

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ryu, Wolf, and the most hyped Nintendo newcomer: King K. Rool! ...maybe...

I dunno. I just don't feel like they'd just show Ryu by himself. As many people here have argued, there's barely any demand for him. He's a big deal but I kind of feel like it would be a Snake situation where more people would be saying "why the Hell is he in Smash" and not "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE HE MADE IT."

 

[JaidynReiman]

I dunno. I just don't feel like they'd just show Ryu by himself. As many people here have argued, there's barely any demand for him. He's a big deal but I kind of feel like it would be a Snake situation where more people would be saying "why the Hell is he in Smash" and not "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE HE MADE IT."

Exactly. They wouldn't show Ryu off by himself. And if Roy is starting to look likely for a later announcement, I have a feeling they might show someone like K. Rool at E3 after all.


Granted, I blatantly expect an announcement of some sort of Capcom thing. Either a Nintendo buyout of Mega Man, Nintendo vs. Capcom (or maybe just Street Fighter X Super Smash Bros.), but yeah, it is odd to just announce Ryu at E3. I don't think they'd do that. He's a gaming icon but he's not really that hype of a character.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm pretty sure there are many good Nintendo (and a few good third-party) characters they could use before having to resort to an obscure third-party character who couldn't even get a sequel without Nintendo.Which doesn't really say much.

She is a great choice for the most part, especially with her very large amount of moveset potential (Check the moveset analysis below) and her high marketing potential. (being an attracting looking icon, in which some people can determine their purchase by)

Where to begin? Lets start from the basics: Bayonetta has dozens of weapons she can use to have a range of attacks from all distances and on every input. The ones I can immediately remember from the first game are a sword, a giant pair of claws and a whip. These all have more versatility than you'd immediately think, they have dozens of attacks on their own. But that's only the start. Bayonetta has a variety of guns to attach to her heels, to start she uses a pair of pistols, but can find or buy shotguns, revolvers and other firearms to take their place. In short, she has a tremendous amount of projectiles on top of melee.

That is not even touching upon all the other things she can do. She has hand-to-hand combat that can easily be its own moveset all on its own, except it also summons monsters to synchronize her attacks with giant boots, punches and stomps that come through humongous portals. She can summon torture machines at will to execute monsters on the fly if they're weak enough. For the finale on a boss, she has an assortment of huge demons to summon that are obvious final smash fodder, but surely could be used to inspire a move or two.

If you want a simple basis for a moveset, it's not as if it's intimidating to create one. She has an obvious standard projectile in her pistols she carries around normally, that can be rapid-fired at all times in the first game to whittle down a foe's health. Bayonetta transforms into various animals, including a bird and panther for an obvious recovery. Multiple mid-air jumps can be purchased in the game as well as defensive measures or items that have a variety of unique effects. Bayonetta can even walk on walls and ride missiles to name a couple of many, many inane abilities of the character.

I almost forgot to add how she can stop time. I'm sure I missed a huge amount in this long summary that are obvious to a big Bayonetta fan.

When you see the potential, you'll see why people support her so much. I recommend watching some gameplay, and you'll see what I mean.

And again, she's not obscure, if Bayonetta's sales are any indication, why do you keep calling her that?
(Nearly 2 million with Bayonetta and the sequel combined. according VG charts, not related to iconicness, just obscurity)

By that logic, Shovel Knight would be a good choice because his game was critically acclaimed. Third-party character need to have a lot more than just great games to be worthwhile additions.

Shovel Knight has both critical acclaim, high popularity, a good amount of moveset potential, and can also sell well just by his design. I'd argue that would be enough to consider them both worthwhile additions to the roster.

But the five third-parties we already have sets a precedence that a third-party must be legendary in order to be considered for Smash. If we're going to have more, why not go for someone like Bomberman before we step down to a character that can barely stand on her own feet?

And I'm arguing they don't have to be iconic as heck to get in the roster, as long as they have some qualities that make them a great choice, they can sell just as well as Ryu and other potential DLC characters. It's not a really a step down for the most part, it's just something new and fresh direction with character choices that people barely explored.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah because, back in the day, Snake's announcement worked because he was at the end of Brawl's formal announcement and essentially opened the door for third party characters. People were already reeling from a new Smash game with new, highly requested characters like Metaknight and Wario so Snake was just icing on the cake. That being said, Ryu really wouldn't work as a stand alone announcement.

 

[Geno Boost]

This is the best outcome I could possibly see, but even then Banjo getting in would be nothing short of a miracle.

and a square enix character? and bomberman

 

[TKactual]

And I'm arguing they don't have to be iconic as heck to get in the roster, as long as they have some qualities that make them a great choice, they can sell just as well as Ryu and other potential DLC characters. It's not a really a step down for the most part, it's just something new and fresh direction with character choices that people barely explored.

By that logic Lloyd Irving could easily get in as a character then, oh please let it happen. (Probably still won't happen but I can dream can't I)

 

[Kenith]

If Lloyd is ever included in Smash Bros.
Scott Menville or bust.

 

[TKactual]

If Lloyd is ever included in Smash Bros.
Scott Menville or bust.

Agreed has to be him to voice him.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I think you're stretching it. Saying that the ballot makes every character a likely choice (paraphrasing) is simply not true. You still have to meet his standards for character selection. Not to mention, every 3rd Party we've seen has been super iconic. All 5 of them. Why is Bayonetta an exception?

Just because a character places high on the ballot doesn't mean they get a free pass into Smash. They still have to meet standards, hence why Shovel Knight and others probably won't happen even if they place high.

This.

In case anyone is curious, these were the final results of the Reddit poll:

Let's look at the top 20:

1. Banjo and Kazooie
2. Isaac
3. King K. Rool
4. Shovel Knight
5. Snake
6. Bayonetta
7. Paper Mario
8. Wolf
9. Inkling
10. Ice Climbers

11. Roy
12. Geno
13. Waluigi
14. Ridley
15. Krystal
16. Shantae
17. Rayman
18. Wonder Red
19. Simon Belmont
20. Phoenix Wright

Of these, we've had one pretty much confirmed while maybe half of these are all that realistic. That being said, there's going to be a lot of disappointed kids come Christmas.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

This is the best outcome I could possibly see, but even then Banjo getting in would be nothing short of a miracle.

Needs more Bomberman and Crash Bandicoot

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Spoiler

I would be so happy if this turned out to be the final roster for Smash 4. (Note: Robin Female, Wii Fit Trainer Male, and Felix are alts in this list)

I would be really happy if this was the final roster. I don't who Felix is though. Is he from Advance Wars?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I would be really happy if this was the final roster. I don't who Felix is though. Is he from Advance Wars?

I think he's from Golden Sun.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

If you think Bayonetta has a chance at all you're already thinking she's more likely than she actually is.


Bayonetta never would have had a sequel and it probably won't again. She's less iconic than Sir Dan from Medieval.



Cue "who's Dan?"

Sir Daniel Fortesque. I know him from PSABR. Please don't hate on me for playing that game.

 

[BluePikmin11]

By that logic Lloyd Irving could easily get in as a character then, oh please let it happen. (Probably still won't happen but I can dream can't I)

Maybe, the creator of that title said he'd like to see him in Smash, it could happen.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Looking at the Reddit poll, the only third party character suggested that even grazes the level of Mario and Megaman (aside from Snake) is Simon Belmont given how Castlevania is practically a genre in itself. I can't decide whether indie characters should be considered on the same level as third party characters because, let's be real, comparing characters like Shantae to Pac-Man is miserably unfair.

 

[MoveMan1]

You know what annoys me? People assuming that Roy and Ryu are DLC characters 3 and 4 when there's every possibility that at least one of them is being saved for later.