Character Discussion Thread

[A Distant Demon]

For Third Party characters? Any that showed up on Nintendo consoles back in the day and throughout the many consoles of Nintendo. How far will it bend?



We have nothing stopping them except for Nintendo/Sakurai. Guidelines add rules to who gets in, if no rules are stated, then there is nothing to go by. All we have is: Must have appeared on a Nintendo console and Must be a video game character.



If Ryu turns out to be true, then that is the real evidence. Characters from the same franchise? I have not seen anything against them.



The point is about Third Party Guidelines, not Nintendo characters.

AGAIN just because it is possible doesnt mean it will happen. I dont know why you cant seem to grasp that just because one was added doesnt mean a bunch more will. yes another character was added but he is an absolute top tier all star. For some reason you seem to think that because there are no rules there will be complete anarchy. there will still be plenty of logic. Sakuriai isnt just going to just add a bunch more characters. There is no evidence towards it and if you think Ryu is you are overreacting. a lot. Sakurai still needs to appease fans and still follows an ideology. I can guarantee it isnt saying "I will add a bucnh of third party characters to make this not a nintendo game"

and REGARDLESS right now the precedent is set for all stars. So even if (and a huge if) more 3rd party characters are added they will probably still be ridiculously important.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Frankly, I think this is a lot more likely....



than this, because I simply don't think Nintendo would've agreed to include Mega Man if they were FORCED to include Ryu later. They just wouldn't have included him at all.

And pass up a gigantic marketing point for the game? People are still crapping themselves over the fact that Megaman got in. In business, money's money and few other third party characters have the same pull and star power that Megaman has.

Add in: Also, the guy hasn't had a game in five years and yet he's still able to sell comics, toys, and clothing like nobodies' business.

 

[Twewy]

And pass up a gigantic marketing point for the game? People are still crapping themselves over the fact that Megaman got in. In business, money's money and few other third party characters have the same pull and star power that Megaman has.

I agree. Personally I think there's only like four or five third parties that still have a major chance at getting in, Ryu not withstanding:

1. Rayman
2. Ryu Hayabusa (Hey, I didn't say which Ryu wasn't withstanding)
3. Simon Belmont
4. Banjo-Kazooie
5. Some sort of Final Fantasy rep, maybe a Black Mage.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

AGAIN just because it is possible doesnt mean it will happen. I dont know why you cant seem to grasp that just because one was added doesnt mean a bunch more will. yes another character was added but he is an absolute top tier all star. For some reason you seem to think that because there are no rules there will be complete anarchy. there will still be plenty of logic. Sakuriai isnt just going to just add a bunch more characters. There is no evidence towards it and if you think Ryu is you are overreacting. a lot. Sakurai still needs to appease fans and still follows an ideology. I can guarantee it isnt saying "I will add a bucnh of third party characters to make this not a nintendo game"

I should have stated in my last post that: Sakurai has gone back on his word many times. Brawl is the last Smash Game. DLC will not be in Smash Brothers. The last line: "Third Party Characters will be kept to a minimum".

Plus, Ryu is the deciding factor because the reason of his inclusion will determine where this goes (He is also a Capcom character alongside Megaman). If Nintendo let him in just to get an exclusive game, then what is stopping all the other companies from doing the same?

and REGARDLESS right now the precedent is set for all stars. So even if (and a huge if) more 3rd party characters are added they will probably still be ridiculously important.

The Third Party characters importance will decrease the more that get in. Having more people in an exclusive club makes that club less meaningful.

 

[N3ON]

Popularly requested characters in my DLC roster:
Rayman
Dixie
Inklings
Chorus Kids
Snake
Lucas
Mewtwo
Bayonetta
Ice Climbers
Roy
Professor Layton
Is it really that bad?

Considering you're using Ryu to justify having a roster of nearly a dozen third-parties, considering you're using Roy, a popularly requested, twice-intended vet to justify every veteran returning, and considering your remaining newcomers are made up of one character who has a much much more requested alternative from the same series, a character who isn't popular anymore in the face of the poll and likely was scrapped due to technical limitations, and one legitimately popular pick but likely chosen by you for promotional reasons, yeah. It's pretty bad.

Why do you think popularity is going to get such a shaft? They opened up a ballot simply to measure popularity, it's obviously a big factor to Nintendo. It's literally giving people what they want for profit. There's a difference between including popular characters and characters due to popularity, and if you think the latter isn't going to happen, you're simply burying your head in the sand. How can you see Ryu, add seven other third-parties, see Roy, add every other veteran, but see the ballot, and do nothing because of it? Your selectivity is bordering on hypocrisy.

You think Nintendo is going to go all out (and I do mean all out) in every area except the one they've outwardly shown to care about. The one they've outwardly shown will effect the roster. In that area you think they're going to do... next to nothing. And that's why it's a bad roster.

 

[Twewy]

All this third party talk and I forgot to mention who I think the coolest third party would be. I think he deserves a spot on the roster.

 

[A Distant Demon]

If Nintendo let him in just to get an exclusive game, then what is stopping all the other companies from doing the same?

basic logic? it's what I just said. you are assuming that just because something is possible it MUST happen. It was already unwritten that there can be more than 1 3rd party. There never was a guideline in the first place.

Your argument hinges on the fact that it is possible. It ALWAYS has been possible. Nothing has changed. You are honestly overreacting that all of a sudden there will be a giant influx of 3rd party characters. there are 4 right now. not 20. I dont get why this imaginary guideline is so important when the imaginary guideline for the goomba I mentioned isnt.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

All this third party talk and I forgot to mention who I think the coolest third party would be. I think he deserves a spot on the roster.

I never knew that there was a game with the avi as the main protagonist. That is pretty awesome.

 

[Twewy]

I never knew that there was a game with the avi in a video game. That is pretty awesome.

Uneducated loser, that's friggin' Cool Spot.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I like how everybody is pooping on Ryu when he's one of the most influential gaming characters ever created. He's definitely up there in terms of comparing to Sonic, Mega Man and Pac-Man. You're flat out wrong if you think otherwise.

Ryu being added doesn't mean every third party and their brother is allowed in. Adding Shovel Knight or Shantae would be when that would be a problem. If you think that adding Ryu makes it, "Not a Nintendo game anymore", it would be 4 3rd parties. 4 out of 55 characters roughly. That's pretty friggen good when comparing to an alternative like PSASBR. They had a roster of significantly less, and with DLC. They had: Isaac Clarke, Big Daddy, Heihachi, Raiden...already matching Smash 4 with about half the roster. Put that into perspective.

Sakurai has been more than cautious with 3rd parties. It's not nearly as bad as some of you are making it out to be.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I agree. Personally I think there's only like four or five third parties that still have a major chance at getting in, Ryu not withstanding:

1. Rayman
2. Ryu Hayabusa (Hey, I didn't say which Ryu wasn't withstanding)
3. Simon Belmont
4. Banjo-Kazooie
5. Some sort of Final Fantasy rep, maybe a Black Mage.

Needs more Bomberman.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

ill make the joke again because it was brought up, this time not by me.


nintendo vs capcom announced

Ridley is playable sentinel style

everyone panics

Please, we don't need another overpowered purple titan in the roster. He was already bad enough in Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (Thankfully, he had the nerf he deserved in UMvC3).

 

[N3ON]

I'm glad you know who everyone did and didn't want. I guess that Ryu support thread from 2013 isn't there, and I guess the occasional people I see elsewhere say "Ryu'd be cool in Smash" don't exist. Every character will be wanted in by somebody. You can bet your *** someone out there wanted Wii Fit Trainer or ROB.

Do you really think I meant literally no one ever requested Ryu to be in Smash?

I'm pretty sure you know what I meant. At least I hope you did.

Go check how many replies were in that Ryu thread prior to this leak. That's what I'm talking about.

Go list all the appearances he's made on Sony consoles. That's what I'm talking about.

He appears on Nintendo because he appears everywhere and in a lot a lot of games. But go figure out the ratio of his appearances on Nintendo to the others, and you'll see that of his appearances, most aren't Nintendo-related. Of course it's all relative, but why do you think the third-parties everyone wants (before they actually expect they're going to show up) are ones with much closer ties to Nintendo than Ryu has? Because that's what people intrinsically want out of a Nintendo crossover!

Again, I'm not saying he's a bad choice, I'm just saying there are a lot of better ones, and before yesterday, damn near everyone would've agreed with me. A lot of people would probably still agree.

You know, your mainline Street Fighter argument would hold more water if numbered Street Fighter games where coming out regularly.

Street Fighter 3 Release date- February 4, 1997
(Street Fighter 3 Third Strike, the final version of the game, release in 1999)
Street Fighter 4 Release date -July 18, 2008

There weren't many opportunities for Street Fighter "main line" games to come to Nintendo consoles, and as discussed here, a version of Street Fighter IV did actually release on a Nintendo system.

They don't, but variations of them do, and nothing is stopping Nintendo from getting those either, but Nintendo has only gotten all of one or two of them since the SNES. And there's dozens.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

basic logic? it's what I just said. you are assuming that just because something is possible it MUST happen. It was already unwritten that there can be more than 1 3rd party. There never was a guideline in the first place.

Did you ignore the part about Sakurai going against his words? Multiple times in fact?
The point is behind the reason why those characters are in.

Your argument hinges on the fact that it is possible. It ALWAYS has been possible. Nothing has changed. You are honestly overreacting that all of a sudden there will be a giant influx of 3rd party characters.

It is for the reason why Ryu is being added that is the deciding factor. Ryu's position will prove how far Nintendo/Sakurai is willing to take it.

I dont get why this imaginary guideline is so important when the imaginary guideline for the goomba I mentioned isnt.

"The point is about Third Party Guidelines, not Nintendo characters." I already pointed this out. We are discussing about an over abundance of Third Party characters right? Goomba is not a Third Party character.

Ryu being added doesn't mean every third party and their brother is allowed in. Adding Shovel Knight or Shantae would be when that would be a problem. If you think that adding Ryu makes it, "Not a Nintendo game anymore", it would be 4 3rd parties. 4 out of 55 characters roughly. That's pretty friggen good when comparing to an alternative like PSASBR. They had a roster of significantly less, and with DLC. They had: Isaac Clarke, Big Daddy, Heihachi, Raiden...already matching Smash 4 with about half the roster. Put that into perspective.

Sakurai has been more than cautious with 3rd parties. It's not nearly as bad as some of you are making it out to be.

Ryu's inclusion (if the rumor is true) will decide how far Nintendo is willing to bend to get more characters in. Namco and Sega will get an extra character, then Capcom will want another one (depending on why Ryu is added will factor this in).

 

[BluePikmin11]

Like I said, not final. I'll change it if the circumstances change. I'm sticking with my guts that every veteran will return, as it could be potentially be a thing revealed at E3.

 

[Graizen]

If Ryu was revealed at E3, this will become real.
Can you understand the level of greatness contained in this picture?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Ryu's inclusion (if the rumor is true) will decide how far Nintendo is willing to bend to get more characters in. Namco and Sega will get an extra character, then Capcom will want another one (depending on why Ryu is added will factor this in).

Eh...Not necessarily. As others have said, there's probably been a deal in place for adding Ryu, and even so, Ryu isn't just some Schmuck. At least I wouldn't say he is. Let's also note that Ryu isn't from the same franchise as Mega Man, as opposed to a 2nd Sonic character that nobody outside of fanboys wants, or a SEGA character that they don't even support anymore.

Namco could supply a decent amount of characters, but who knows? It's not something I would fret about at this point. It's not like it's going to be 17 3rd parties added to the current roster.

 

[JamesDNaux]

If Ryu was revealed at E3, this will become real.
Can you understand the level of greatness contained in this picture?

And people said Snake stood out like a sore thumb.




Speaking of, he needs to be in that picture, along with Rayman. If only Banjo too.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

If Ryu was revealed at E3, this will become real.
Can you understand the level of greatness contained in this picture?

Which is why we need Lloyd Irving, Snake, Simon Belmont, and The Magician (House of the Dead) since three other great third party developers should have the same treatment as Crapcom. The most unique Tales protagonist, the OG Metal Gear killer, the oldest vampire slayer in history, and the iconic monster from Sega's first light gun title in the same game.

Don't deny it, thousands of games from PlayStation would come crawling to Smash because of these characters alone.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Like I said, not final. I'll change it if the circumstances change. I'm sticking with my guts that every veteran will return, as it could be potentially be a thing revealed at E3.

I wouldn't count on that. 4 characters of DLC are Pokemon? I highly doubt that one. Ice Climbers simply won't happen because they have tech issues.

 

[skylanders fan]

with ryu possible in I think we need only 2-3 more 3rd parties tops we need charcters like issac,king k rool,ridley,inklings etc I wonder how much dlc they will do anyways

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Honestly, aside their mascots NAMCO and SEGA doesn't have a character in the same level of knowledge of Ryu. .. maybe SEGA's Alex Kidd.. but this was long ago. :\/

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Eh...Not necessarily. As others have said, there's probably been a deal in place for adding Ryu, and even so, Ryu isn't just some Schmuck. At least I wouldn't say he is. Let's also note that Ryu isn't from the same franchise as Mega Man, as opposed to a 2nd Sonic character that nobody outside of fanboys wants, or a SEGA character that they don't even support anymore.

It is about having more than one Third Party character per Company. Soon, Capcom will want more characters than Ryu and Megaman they could supply with. Sega bought Atlus, so Atlus' characters fit in the same boat as Sega.

Namco could supply a decent amount of characters, but who knows? It's not something I would fret about at this point. It's not like it's going to be 17 3rd parties added to the current roster.

In due time, I will say.

Naming all the characters that Namco could supply would be mind numbing. Capcom getting Ryu, requires the other companies to get more. And that is only including Sega, Capcom and Namco.

Which is why we need Lloyd Irving, Snake, Simon Belmont, and The Magician (House of the Dead) since three other great third party developers should have the same treatment as Crapcom. The most unique Tales protagonist, the OG Metal Gear killer, the oldest vampire slayer in history, and the iconic monster from Sega's first light gun title in the same game.

Don't forget the others that can be squeezed in there.

Don't deny it, thousands of games from PlayStation would come crawling to Smash because of these characters alone.

And then they will go back to their own consoles once the deal is done and they put their game on Nintendo consoles.

 

[Twewy]

Do you really think I meant literally no one ever requested Ryu to be in Smash?

I'm pretty sure you know what I meant. At least I hope you did.

Sorry but when you say "not in the least" you mean "not in the smallest degree; not at all.", unless the definition has changed and Google needs to get with the times. If you weren't being totally serious, I apologize for my terrible reading comprehension.

Which is why we need Lloyd Irving, Snake, Simon Belmont, and The Magician (House of the Dead) since three other great third party developers should have the same treatment as Crapcom. The most unique Tales protagonist, the OG Metal Gear killer, the oldest vampire slayer in history, and the iconic monster from Sega's first light gun title in the same game.

Don't deny it, thousands of games from PlayStation would come crawling to Smash because of these characters alone.

What. Also, HoTD wasn't Sega's first light-gun game, sorry to be the one to tell you that. Virtua Cop beat it by a few years.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Man I'm fully on the Ryu hype train. I don't even like or use the dude that much in Street Fighter (M.BIson/Dictator and Dudley for life), but we're talking about the dad of fighting games here, and Street Fighter is my stuff.
Possible colour alts could be..
Based on other shotos (that wear gi):

And obviously we need the token green and blue alts, which Ryu himself can fill:

And to round it all off, red hair Ryu for good measure:

I could see the stage music having various iconic character themes, so Ryu (classic and a new arrangement), Ken, Guile, Chun-Li, Dictator, Akuma and probably Cammy. I'm personally hoping for Boxer's theme because that's my personal favourite.


In all honesty I'd have picked Snake as the third party choice, but Ryu is like one of those choices that I was indifferent to until the possibility of him was actually really damn real and now I'm excited.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Honestly, aside their mascots NAMCO and SEGA doesn't have a character in the same level of knowledge of Ryu. .. maybe SEGA's Alex Kidd.. but this was long ago. :\/

For Namco, it would be either Heihachi or Jin since Tekken is currently one of their bigger money makers these days (Though it's arguably less iconic in comparison to Street Fighter).

 

[CyberWolfBia]

and of course, Ryu's inclusion doesn't sound like more representation of Capcom as company (even being, in the practice), but more representation of Nintendo story;.. even you argue about any other Street Fighter game or Ryu appearance in other consoles,.. I bet that both Nintendo and Capcom are pretty proud of Street Fighter II success on SNES.

 

[Sid-cada]

I like how everybody is pooping on Ryu when he's one of the most influential gaming characters ever created. He's definitely up there in terms of comparing to Sonic, Mega Man and Pac-Man. You're flat out wrong if you think otherwise.

I don't have any doubts about how iconic Ryu is. Without a doubt, he is the most famous fighting game character ever. But that's my problem with him.

Ryu's move set basically already is in Smash Brothers. Who do you think the Mario Bros. and the Doc were based on? They have the Hadouken, Shoryuken, and the Spin Kick. His play style is basically already in the game three times over! So, what else is their that he can do? A meter? Little Mac's KO punch and Lucario's Aura say otherwise. So what's left?

It's like getting bread for all meals four days in a row. Sure, it might be good at the start, but eventually it starts to get boring.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ryu's a big deal but it's understandable why he isn't that popular with the Smash Bros fanbase:

1. Many of us got into Smash Bros because we liked fighting games but didn't like having to memorize button sequences to be good. Ryu's the poster child of traditional fighting games.

2. Hasn't had a big Nintendo presence in recent years. Street Fighter's huge but it hasn't been considered "part of the team" for a long time.

3. Lot of Smash fans usually stray away from the more realistic video game characters. On the upside, Snake pretty much fought the same battle but eventually was accepted by most Smash fans.

As I've said, I'm largely just whatever about him. I never really got attached to Snake either so I'll probably buy him just to support future DLC but that's about it.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

For Namco, it would be either Heihachi or Jin since Tekken is currently one of their bigger money makers these days (Though it's arguably less iconic in comparison to Street Fighter).

Is that what I'm saying.. not only Ryu and Street Fighter are older names around; Jin/Heihachi or Akira are very less iconic than Ryu.. Again, Ryu is for fighting games, what Mario is for platforms.

 

[Twewy]

(Though it's arguably less iconic in comparison to Street Fighter).

Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong, but doesn't Tekken sell way better than Street Fighter? Granted Street Fighter is a lot more recognizable.

 

[A Distant Demon]

"The point is about Third Party Guidelines, not Nintendo characters." I already pointed this out. We are discussing about an over abundance of Third Party characters right? Goomba is not a Third Party character.

and IM arguing that a lack of guidelines doesnt mean something will happen. there is no guidline excluding goomba or 3x more 3rd parties.

but neither are happening

Did you ignore the part about Sakurai going against his words?





Ryu's inclusion (if the rumor is true) will decide how far Nintendo is willing to bend to get more characters in. Namco and Sega will get an extra character, then Capcom will want another one (depending on why Ryu is added will factor this in).

rampant speculation you cant prove


like I dont understand why a simple lack of guideline is freaking you out

It is about having more than one Third Party character per Company. Soon, Capcom will want more characters than Ryu and Megaman they could supply with. Sega bought Atlus, so Atlus' characters fit in the same boat as Sega.

ridiculously rampant speculation you can't prove ever. there is no reason to believe capcom will get even more.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong, but doesn't Tekken sell way better than Street Fighter? Granted Street Fighter is a lot more recognizable.

Yeah ignoring Smash Bros, Tekken is the best selling fighting game franchise, and Heihachi is the poster boy of that series.

Tekken 3 was huge, but it wasn't a cultural phenomenon like SF2.

 

[Twewy]

Sega bought Atlus, so Atlus' characters fit in the same boat as Sega.

No, Sammy, SEGA's parent company, bought Atlus.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It is about having more than one Third Party character per Company. Soon, Capcom will want more characters than Ryu and Megaman they could supply with. Sega bought Atlus, so Atlus' characters fit in the same boat as Sega.

In due time, I will say.

Naming all the characters that Namco could supply would be mind numbing. Capcom getting Ryu, requires the other companies to get more. And that is only including Sega, Capcom and Namco.



Don't forget the others that can be squeezed in there.


And then they will go back to their own consoles once the deal is done and they put their game on Nintendo consoles.

Who said it requires the other companies to get more? That's never been said anywhere.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Now that I think about it, isn't it some kind of irony that the "father" of fighting games is getting into Smash?

Sakurai wanted it to be a party game, guess he's finally embracing the competitive spirit.




Smash is the only "fighting" game I even play, so Ryu is just kind of there for me.

 

[Twewy]

I'm going to laugh my ass off if it's one of the most generic (but still likable) fighting game characters that get Smash-only players into fighting games. I mean, Smash is a great gateway to other series and it's even one of the reasons Snake was put in Brawl, and the whole reason we have Fire Emblem in the West.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I wouldn't count on that. 4 characters of DLC are Pokemon? I highly doubt that one. Ice Climbers simply won't happen because they have tech issues.

I don't know. I think they could possibly figure something out. They pretty much admitted that they were low priority for the initial release and didn't sink a whole lot of time in troubleshooting their issue. Now that development is just focused on DLC and with how well Icies are doing in the polls, I could see a comeback, especially when you consider how we'll probably being seeing more characters up until around this time next year.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm indifferent to Ryu myself. I have played Super Street Fighter four 3D edition and I thought the game was pretty neat for a while. Although I was a bigger fan of Ibuki than Ryu but yah....

I don't mind him too much and I personally would have preferred someone else as a third party character I'd probably even take Phoenix Wright over him as a second Capcom character as I'm a bigger fan of him.....

Eitherway, I'll be more than happy to purchase him if he does indeed become playable as DLC.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Ryu's a big deal but it's understandable why he isn't that popular with the Smash Bros fanbase:

1. Many of us got into Smash Bros because we liked fighting games but didn't like having to memorize button sequences to be good. Ryu's the poster child of traditional fighting games.

2. Hasn't had a big Nintendo presence in recent years. Street Fighter's huge but it hasn't been considered "part of the team" for a long time.

3. Lot of Smash fans usually stray away from the more realistic video game characters. On the upside, Snake pretty much fought the same battle but eventually was accepted by most Smash fans.

As I've said, I'm largely just whatever about him. I never really got attached to Snake either so I'll probably buy him just to support future DLC but that's about it.

I understand those reasons... but, characters in Smash Bros. (and crossovers in general) are made with some purpose of bringing and exchanging players and enthusiasts from various fanbases... People who plays Street Fighter will, at very least, being interested to see how Ryu plays in Smash Bros.; .. and with all the content that Smash offers by a character, certainly some people just used with Smash Bros. will read some description about Ryu and try Street Fighter as well.
was that the main selling point of Street Fighter X Tekken, btw..

and just a thing: Ryu and the SF characters are pretty cartoony.. they're in the level of Punch-Out!!, no issues of having him in the roster.