Character Discussion Thread

[N3ON]

I like how everybody is pooping on Ryu when he's one of the most influential gaming characters ever created. He's definitely up there in terms of comparing to Sonic, Mega Man and Pac-Man. You're flat out wrong if you think otherwise.

So is pooping on Cloud in Smash dumb too? Or any iconic character, regardless of their ties to Nintendo?

I'm not saying they're all in the same category, but they do all equally apply to your statement.

Ryu being added doesn't mean every third party and their brother is allowed in. Adding Shovel Knight or Shantae would be when that would be a problem. If you think that adding Ryu makes it, "Not a Nintendo game anymore", it would be 4 3rd parties. 4 out of 55 characters roughly. That's pretty friggen good when comparing to an alternative like PSASBR. They had a roster of significantly less, and with DLC. They had: Isaac Clarke, Big Daddy, Heihachi, Raiden...already matching Smash 4 with about half the roster. Put that into perspective.

Sakurai has been more than cautious with 3rd parties. It's not nearly as bad as some of you are making it out to be.

People are going to keep saying an indie would rock the boat too much until it actually happens. I think if anyone should recognize pre-conceived notions about what does and doesn't belong in Smash can change in an instant it'd be a diehard Snake supporter.

For as much as people say "they don't deserve it and aren't iconic enough" one day, the next day they'll be saying "they're popular and interesting, have close ties with Nintendo and having an indie character represents an important kind of third-party which are prevalent on Nintendo systems" Remember the "eShop rep"? Well they'd just adapt it to an "indie rep". That's what the fanbase does.

And then you'll be the one stigmatized for having the opinions everyone had only mere moments prior and now are brushing under the carpet, so you adapt and change your view, or you become a pariah. There's no way points in support of Ryu would've gotten likes even two days ago, now look.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

and IM arguing that a lack of guidelines doesnt mean something will happen. there is no guidline excluding goomba or 3x more 3rd parties.

but neither are happening

rampant speculation you cant prove


like I dont understand why a simple lack of guideline is freaking you out

ridiculously rampant speculation you can't prove ever. there is no reason to believe capcom will get even more.

The reason of Ryu's inclusion would prove whether or not the other Third Party Companies would get other characters. And that is if the rumor about Ryu is true.

If Ryu is included as a marketing deal from Capcom, then we can expect Namco and Sega to do this to get more characters in for advertising purposes.

Guidelines show rules and reason are being followed. Without them, there is no limit to much.

No, Sammy, SEGA's parent company, bought Atlus.

Still, would Sega be allowed to use them as a place for a secondary Sega character?

Who said it requires the other companies to get more? That's never been said anywhere.

That is how advertising works. Sega and Namco will want more spots after seeing Capcom getting both Ryu and Megaman, so they will deal with Nintendo and get an extra spot.

 

[JamesDNaux]

We may as well get some Final Fantasy character in the game. I'd say I'm surprised it hasn't happened, but this is Squeenix.

Dunno who it could be, the only character I'm familiar with at all is Cloud, but it would be amusing to watch all the anti "Sony character" people squirming over his inclusion.


If I had to throw my hate behind any indie character, it'd be Shantae. Even though the only indie game I've played was Cave Story.

 

[Twewy]

Still, would Sega be allowed to use them as a place for a secondary Sega character?

Not really, no. SEGA and Atlus usually work independent of each other.

 

[Ivander]

If Ryu was revealed at E3, this will become real.
Can you understand the level of greatness contained in this picture?

Almost. It needs Simon Belmont. Snake, Black Mage, Bomberman and Jack Frost would be extra icing on the cake.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So is pooping on Cloud in Smash dumb too? Or any iconic character, regardless of their ties to Nintendo?

I'm not saying they're all in the same category, but they do all equally apply to your statement.


People are going to keep saying an indie would rock the boat too much until it actually happens. I think if anyone should recognize pre-conceived notions about what does and doesn't belong in Smash can change in an instant it'd be a diehard Snake supporter.

For as much as people say "they don't deserve it and aren't iconic enough" one day, the next day they'll be saying "they're popular and interesting, have close ties with Nintendo and having an indie character represents an important kind of third-party which are prevalent on Nintendo systems" Remember the "eShop rep"? Well they'd just adapt it to an "indie rep". That's what the fanbase does.

And then you'll be the one stigmatized for having the opinions everyone had only mere moments prior and now are brushing under the carpet, so you adapt and change your view, or you become a pariah. There's no way points in support of Ryu would've gotten likes even two days ago, now look.

That's how hindsight works. I didn't ever expect Ryu. The only reason I expect him now is because of the actual evidence of him being in the game, and it made me think of Ryu's legacy as a character. That makes sense. That's usually how people change their opinions anyway. They are presented with information that makes them think of something differently, therefore changing their view.

Snake's not really comparable to Indie characters. Had Snake never been in Smash, I would never have supported him. He's a 3rd party that has quite the legacy tied to him. He's appeared on Nintendo consoles...sometimes. He's now a Smash vet though, and I personally don't think Sakurai would have added him if he wasn't a big name gaming character. That's the difference with Indies. Snake didn't get in because he had ,"a great relationship with Nintendo". He got in because Sakurai's friend asked him, and he's an icon of gaming. I highly doubt Super Meat Boy would get in if Sakurai were friends with his developers.

Even if Shantae got added, I would look at the roster of: Sonic, Pac-Man, Mega Man, Ryu, Snake and Shantae...and think she's the odd one out. She's not even close to the same tier as any of those characters. They're simply not comparable.

I'm not telling people they have to like Ryu. People can have whatever opinions they want. But saying he's not an icon? He's not an overall popular character? (maybe not in Smash, but aside from that? He's friggen Ryu!)

Cloud...I see what you mean there, however I kind of view that a bit differently. Kind of hard for me to explain though.

 

[Starphoenix]

If the Ryu rumors are true then there are no Third Party rules in place. So when do the influx of Third Party characters stop?

When Sakurai says so.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Honestly, I find Shantae the only worthy indie character to be in Smash. (I would love me some Quote, though)

 

[A Distant Demon]

honestly a lack of squuenix rep confuses me a lot. I would have honestly put them at a top contender. With or without Geno square is pretty big and so are final fantasy/dragon quest.

the only thing I can thinkiof is square not letting them or maybe a "marth situation" in which cloud, black mage, and other square reps all kind of fight each other.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

When Sakurai says so.

And what if he doesn't mean it? The guy goes back on his word. Hopefully, this is something he does not do, but I would not doubt him to do so.

 

[Twewy]

maybe a "marth situation" in which cloud, black mage, and other square reps all kind of fight each other.

This kind of confuses me. What's a "Marth situation"?

 

[A Distant Demon]

This kind of confuses me. What's a "Marth situation"?

i guess fire embelm would be a better name but basically how protaganists change from game to game so one in particular stands out much less than usual.

EX marth is in 2(?) games so he isnt super duper uber noteworthy (pre smash) but he reperesents the whole thing

The question is who would rep square?

 

[CyberWolfBia]

honestly a lack of squuenix rep confuses me a lot. I would have honestly put them at a top contender. With or without Geno square is pretty big and so are final fantasy/dragon quest.

the only thing I can thinkiof is square not letting them or maybe a "marth situation" in which cloud, black mage, and other square reps all kind of fight each other.

Aside Bravely Default/Second and the Theatrhythm games, there isn't nothing new (specially related to Final Fantasy) from Square Enix on Nintendo systems, isn't it? (even though, Nintendo puts a lot of faith in the Bravely games).. was ever a Final Fantasy game released on Virtual Console?.. Even on Wii? (really curious)

 

[Twewy]

was ever a Final Fantasy game released on Virtual Console?.. Even on Wii? (really curious)

Quite a few, VC and regular Wii both.

 

[Kenith]

i guess fire embelm would be a better name but basically how protaganists change from game to game so one in particular stands out much less than usual.

EX marth is in 2(?) games so he isnt super duper uber noteworthy (pre smash) but he reperesents the whole thing

The question is who would rep square?

I thought Black Mage was obviously the best Final Fantasy candidate for Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

honestly a lack of squuenix rep confuses me a lot. I would have honestly put them at a top contender. With or without Geno square is pretty big and so are final fantasy/dragon quest.

the only thing I can thinkiof is square not letting them or maybe a "marth situation" in which cloud, black mage, and other square reps all kind of fight each other.

Also... Kingdom Hearts. (Though I would be surprised to see Sora over Black Mage or...Actually I can see him getting in over Slime.)

About Ryu... I dunno. I don't think he would be an interesting fighter. I really cant see him be cool looking moveset wise. But on the other hand, If he is in than that's one step giant leap towards legit hope of Amaterasu being in smash. Hmmmmmmm.........

 

[Starphoenix]

honestly a lack of squuenix rep confuses me a lot. I would have honestly put them at a top contender. With or without Geno square is pretty big and so are final fantasy/dragon quest.

the only thing I can thinkiof is square not letting them or maybe a "marth situation" in which cloud, black mage, and other square reps all kind of fight each other.

There's only one right choice.

 

[N3ON]

That's how hindsight works. I didn't ever expect Ryu. The only reason I expect him now is because of the actual evidence of him being in the game, and it made me think of Ryu's legacy as a character. That makes sense. That's usually how people change their opinions anyway. They are presented with information that makes them think of something differently, therefore changing their view.

Snake's not really comparable to Indie characters. Had Snake never been in Smash, I would never have supported him. He's a 3rd party that has quite the legacy tied to him. He's appeared on Nintendo consoles...sometimes. He's now a Smash vet though, and I personally don't think Sakurai would have added him if he wasn't a big name gaming character. That's the difference with Indies. Snake didn't get in because he had ,"a great relationship with Nintendo". He got in because Sakurai's friend asked him, and he's an icon of gaming. I highly doubt Super Meat Boy would get in if Sakurai were friends with his developers.

Even if Shantae got added, I would look at the roster of: Sonic, Pac-Man, Mega Man, Ryu, Snake and Shantae...and think she's the odd one out. She's not even close to the same tier as any of those characters. They're simply not comparable.

I'm not telling people they have to like Ryu. People can have whatever opinions they want. But saying he's not an icon? He's not an overall popular character? (maybe not in Smash, but aside from that? He's friggen Ryu!)

Cloud...I see what you mean there, however I kind of view that a bit differently. Kind of hard for me to explain though.

Exactly, that's why the fanbase works the way that it does. Hate on something until it happens. Hate on something based on pre-conceived notions and precedent until precedent is broken and it takes a new method of justification. Then hate on those who don't adopt that justification.

No, Snake isn't the same as indie characters, but he if no one else, more so than indie characters, more so than Ryu or certainly any Nintendo character, proves that precedent can get shattered. Patterns and "rules" may very well only exist up until a certain point. For as rigidly as we may believe something "won't" happen in Smash, Snake proves... it might.

And you're right. Shantae would be the odd one out. But let's look at the Brawl roster before Sonic was added in 07. Can you see anyone who might be the odd one out? Even after Sonic was added, even in Smash 4, if Snake had made it back, would there not still be an odd one out? Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Snake. We've all become used to him in the context of Smash Bros, and I'm not speaking against him, but if we weren't... he'd be as much of an odd one out as Shantae, only for different reasons. If you want to look at through the lens of being iconic, Shantae is the odd one out. If you want to look at it through the lens of ties to Nintendo, Shantae wouldn't be the odd one out, Snake would be. Odd ones out clearly can happen.

I'm not saying the "iconic" argument people stand behind doesn't make sense. That's why so many people are standing behind it. I'm just saying... we base our rules around what we observe. When what we observe changes, which it has many times before with Smash, we need to create new rules. Our rules don't dictate the game, the game dictates our rules. I'm just saying it's a little short-sighted to think the rules we have now aren't going to change. The rules change all the time, the fanbase just likes to act like we've always had the same mentality about things. The iconic argument doesn't work for Nintendo characters themselves anymore... but it used to.

When and if we get an indie character, many people will embrace it, and the arguments against them, like the ones you use, will be derided, even though they make perfect sense now. The rules will once again change, people will act like the "new rules" were obvious the whole time, and arguments that they might further change in the future will be laughed off.

And by the way I'm not saying any of that about Ryu. He's Ryu, I just don't think he's the best choice for Smash. Though I don't think he's a bad choice.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

There's only one right choice.

So like. Smash Street?

 

[Twewy]

(Though I would be surprised to see Sora over Black Mage or...Actually I can see him getting in over Slime.).

Kingdom Hearts is Disney owned, as is Sora.

 

[Fatmanonice]

So like. Smash Street?

I think he's referring to Slime.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Exactly, that's why the fanbase works the way that it does. Hate on something until it happens. Hate on something based on pre-conceived notions and precedent until precedent is broken and it takes a new method of justification. Then hate on those who don't adopt that justification.

No, Snake isn't the same as indie characters, but he if no one else, more so than indie characters, more so than Ryu or certainly any Nintendo character, proves that precedent can get shattered. Patterns and "rules" may very well only exist up until a certain point. For as rigidly as we may believe something "won't" happen in Smash, Snake proves... it might.

And you're right. Shantae would be the odd one out. But let's look at the Brawl roster before Sonic was added in 07. Can you see anyone who might be the odd one out? Even after Sonic was added, even in Smash 4, if Snake had made it back, would there not still be an odd one out? Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Snake. We've all become used to him in the context of Smash Bros, and I'm not speaking against him, but if we weren't... he'd be as much of an odd one out as Shantae, only for different reasons. If you want to look at through the lens of being iconic, Shantae is the odd one out. If you want to look at it through the lens of ties to Nintendo, Shantae wouldn't be the odd one out, Snake would be. Odd ones out clearly can happen.

I'm not saying the "iconic" argument people stand behind doesn't make sense. That's why so many people are standing behind it. I'm just saying... we base our rules around what we observe. When what we observe changes, which it has many times before with Smash, we need to create new rules. Our rules don't dictate the game, the game dictates our rules. I'm just saying it's a little short-sighted to think the rules we have now aren't going to change. The rules change all the time, the fanbase just likes to act like we've always had the same mentality about things. The iconic argument doesn't work for Nintendo characters themselves anymore... but it used to.

When and if we get an indie character, many people will embrace it, and the arguments against them, like the ones you use, will be derided, even though they make perfect sense now. The rules will once again change, people will act like the "new rules" were obvious the whole time, and arguments that they might further change in the future will be laughed off.

And by the way I'm not saying any of that about Ryu. He's Ryu, I just don't think he's the best choice for Smash. Though I don't think he's a bad choice.

Oh yes. Believe me, I completely agree with you. It's one thing to change a personal opinion on a character (I think we all do that once in awhile). But you're right. The Smash Bros. fanbase will cater to our Smash ogrelords and spew whatever reasons they can come up with against more 3rd parties or what not.

First, "we can only have 2 3rd parties! Sonic and Mega Man!"

Second, "we can't get any more 3rd parties after Pac-Man!"

"Pokemon can't have more than Mario. It's the Mario rule!"

Stuff like that. I know you of all people have seen it during your days as a moderator

I suppose my only disagreement in your post here is Snake. I agree that in a different context he's the odd ball, but in the context of gaming characters with a legacy, Snake certainly fits that bill. But I think we've discussed that to death...

The real reason Ryu is in, is because Sakurai is a champion from a Street Fighter tournament.

 

[Starphoenix]

I think he's referring to Slime.

All these years. If it finally happened...

 

[CyberWolfBia]

The real reason Ryu is in, is because Sakurai is a champion from a Street Fighter tournament.

Ooh, that's true.. I remember him saying something about that. XD

 

[Baskerville]

First, "we can only have 2 3rd parties! Sonic and Mega Man!"

Second, "we can't get any more 3rd parties after Pac-Man!"

"Pokemon can't have more than Mario. It's the Mario rule!"

Stuff like that. I know you of all people have seen it during your days as a moderator

A fickle bunch we are. =P

 

[N3ON]

Oh yes. Believe me, I completely agree with you. It's one thing to change a personal opinion on a character (I think we all do that once in awhile). But you're right. The Smash Bros. fanbase will cater to our Smash ogrelords and spew whatever reasons they can come up with against more 3rd parties or what not.

First, "we can only have 2 3rd parties! Sonic and Mega Man!"

Second, "we can't get any more 3rd parties after Pac-Man!"

"Pokemon can't have more than Mario. It's the Mario rule!"

Stuff like that. I know you of all people have seen it during your days as a moderator

I suppose my only disagreement in your post here is Snake. I agree that in a different context he's the odd ball, but in the context of gaming characters with a legacy, Snake certainly fits that bill. But I think we've discussed that to death...

The real reason Ryu is in, is because Sakurai is a champion from a Street Fighter tournament.

Oh I wouldn't disagree that as far as iconic gaming characters go, Snake fits right in. I just think when you add in the context of a Nintendo-oriented crossover, he fits a little less. Not to an extent he shouldn't be in the game, just to an extent that... if he gets in, third-parties that are less iconic but closer to Nintendo have a place too if they're still popular and interesting. Or at least... will have a place too as the series continues to develop and expand.

And yeah. When you see so many "rules" (most of them dumb, some of them valid for a time) get torn down one after the other, you realize that even the ones that seem unwavering can in turn be broken. :/

 

[Fatmanonice]

All these years. If it finally happened...

Oh yeah, I forgot you've been here almost as freakishly long as I have. You were a big Slime supporter in the Brawl days, weren't you? Jesus, the Brawl speculation days feel like a lifetime ago.

 

[Starphoenix]

Oh yeah, I forgot you've been here almost as freakishly long as I have. You were a big Slime supporter in the Brawl days, weren't you? Jesus, the Brawl speculation days feel like a lifetime ago.

I gave up hope, but now I am left with a small glimmer.

 

[Burruni]

Square/Squaresoft/Square-Enix is, without arguement, one of the most notable third party choices due to their really strong Nintendo relation up to the N64/PS1 split and basically revolutionizing the grounds of what JRPGs would build from to this day.
Of course, Geno has his supporters which lasted from namely the Brawl era off of just an overall really solid JRPG without the stupid levels of grinding that was eventually "carried on" by Paper Mario and the M&L RPG games.

Honestly, they are comparable to Capcom in terms of relations to Nintendo and how they've treated their series. Since Brawl they've been talked about, by fans of course, as being the next big 3rd Party to be Smash represented.

Square basically has 3 "major" series that people will dispute for where to pick. That of course excludes the 1/2-off characters like Geno, Chrono, or Neku.

1) Kingdom Hearts - A series with a love-hate relationship with Nintendo. Where, excluding the 1.5/2.5 remixes, had 4 of 7 titles on Nintendo (only 1 being shared between Sony and Nintendo by the two versions of Chain of Memories). But, as this is owned by Disney and is coming to a close with Xehanort's story after KH3 which is going to basically everyone BUT Nintendo, there's too much to bury this.

2) Dragon Warrior/Quest - The OTHER major JRPG series of Square which in main games and spinoffs has been, once again, split between Nintendo and Sony with some characters being present for Fortune Street (and possibly earlier titles of that series, never looked into it) and Mario Sports Mix.

3) Let's face it.... the BIG thing of Square.... Final Fantasy. 1-6 being made for Nintendo along with Tactics Advance-Advance 2, and various other spin-offs while the later games of course went Sony-focused. The way that I see it, while Cloud may be a bit more of a "Posterboy," I feel like it'd be more logical to be one of the characters that have already visited the Mario/Nintendo-verse with crossovers. From Mario Hoops 3-on-3 and Mario Sports Mix, that'd be 5 characters.
Black Mage, White Mage, Ninja, Cactaur, Moogle. And... almost in this kind of tier because of how it can/has represented MANY jobs of the series in a spin-off which last visited the wii, Chocobo.
I think it's fair to say that Ninja, Cactuar, and Moogle become the lower half of these two.
Black Mage, White Mage, and the "Fantasy Dungeon" Chocobo.

Spoiler

I think I have my vote.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Square/Squaresoft/Square-Enix is, without arguement, one of the most notable third party choices due to their really strong Nintendo relation up to the N64/PS1 split and basically revolutionizing the grounds of what JRPGs would build from to this day.
Of course, Geno has his supporters which lasted from namely the Brawl era off of just an overall really solid JRPG without the stupid levels of grinding that was eventually "carried on" by Paper Mario and the M&L RPG games.

Honestly, they are comparable to Capcom in terms of relations to Nintendo and how they've treated their series. Since Brawl they've been talked about, by fans of course, as being the next big 3rd Party to be Smash represented.

Square basically has 3 "major" series that people will dispute for where to pick. That of course excludes the 1/2-off characters like Geno, Chrono, or Neku.

1) Kingdom Hearts - A series with a love-hate relationship with Nintendo. Where, excluding the 1.5/2.5 remixes, had 4 of 7 titles on Nintendo (only 1 being shared between Sony and Nintendo by the two versions of Chain of Memories). But, as this is owned by Disney and is coming to a close with Xehanort's story after KH3 which is going to basically everyone BUT Nintendo, there's too much to bury this.

2) Dragon Warrior/Quest - The OTHER major JRPG series of Square which in main games and spinoffs has been, once again, split between Nintendo and Sony with some characters being present for Fortune Street (and possibly earlier titles of that series, never looked into it) and Mario Sports Mix.

3) Let's face it.... the BIG thing of Square.... Final Fantasy. 1-6 being made for Nintendo along with Tactics Advance-Advance 2, and various other spin-offs while the later games of course went Sony-focused. The way that I see it, while Cloud may be a bit more of a "Posterboy," I feel like it'd be more logical to be one of the characters that have already visited the Mario/Nintendo-verse with crossovers. From Mario Hoops 3-on-3 and Mario Sports Mix, that'd be 5 characters.
Black Mage, White Mage, Ninja, Cactaur, Moogle. And... almost in this kind of tier because of how it can/has represented MANY jobs of the series in a spin-off which last visited the wii, Chocobo.
I think it's fair to say that Ninja, Cactuar, and Moogle become the lower half of these two.
Black Mage, White Mage, and the "Fantasy Dungeon" Chocobo.

Spoiler

I think I have my vote.

I don't see the point of just choosing one franchise from Square Enix. Ryu's getting in will allow 2 characters per Third Party Company.

If you disagree, just read these quotes:

"Smash will never have Third Party Characters."

"Sonic and Megaman only."

"No more than Pacman, Sonic, and Megaman."

These quotes prove how things change and no rule is written in stone, since they change all the time.

These points that people try to bring up on what is and isn't allowed in Smash Brothers is pointless, the game proves otherwise. Soon enough, we will be saying how Nintendo-exclusive indies were an obvious choice and were likely to enter. It is all a matter of getting in.

Oh yes. Believe me, I completely agree with you. It's one thing to change a personal opinion on a character (I think we all do that once in awhile). But you're right. The Smash Bros. fanbase will cater to our Smash ogrelords and spew whatever reasons they can come up with against more 3rd parties or what not.

First, "we can only have 2 3rd parties! Sonic and Mega Man!"

Second, "we can't get any more 3rd parties after Pac-Man!"

"Pokemon can't have more than Mario. It's the Mario rule!"

Stuff like that. I know you of all people have seen it during your days as a moderator

I suppose my only disagreement in your post here is Snake. I agree that in a different context he's the odd ball, but in the context of gaming characters with a legacy, Snake certainly fits that bill. But I think we've discussed that to death...

The real reason Ryu is in, is because Sakurai is a champion from a Street Fighter tournament.

That is the main point behind my comment earlier, Scoliosis. Rules change all the time, so expecting two characters per Third Party Company is not farfetched. Neither is expecting the game to get an influx of Third Party characters. Maybe not right this moment, but in due time.

 

[skylanders fan]

the issue i see with is that he dosnt have the legacy that the other charcter have and ryu are house hold names got in becuse he was asked to get in honestly snake in brawl felt like a sore thumb and I feel that has as much chance as to comeback

 

[JamesDNaux]

Here's a fun thought. One cartoony mascot type character, one more mature, human character.

Capcom: Mega Man and Ryu.
Sega: Sonic and... eh, Bayonetta.
Namco: Pac-Man and... that Lloyd guy I kept hearing about?
Konami: Bomberman and Snake.


Ubisoft: Rayman and some Assassin's Creed guy probably.




Squeenix: No clue whatsoever.

 

[Starphoenix]

I say we all support Slime & Chocobo. Our new duo.

 

[Burruni]

I don't see the point of just choosing one franchise from Square Enix. Ryu's getting in will allow 2 characters per Third Party Company.

That is the main point behind my comment earlier, Scoliosis. Rules change all the time, so expecting two characters per Third Party Company is not farfetched. Neither is expecting the game to get an influx of Third Party characters. Maybe not right this moment, but in due time.

Because of those 6 I mentioned in total, 3 have only a game or two in total. 1 of them is owned by a completely different company and did nothing too spectacular. Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are the big two for Square in the running. And frankly, Dragon Quest never stood out to make any major changes or ground-breaking popularity like Final Fantasy. Ryu and Street Fighter have merits much beyond the options within Dragon Quest. Ryu has merits on-par with Snake, Megaman, and arguably Sonic. The better way of looking at Ryu is "Multiple iconic series of a 3rd Party company can be represented." Can and WILL having two very different connotations.

I'm not trying to say "Square has a gun to their head and had to choose between favorite children for the throne of Smashdom." I'm seeing it as "When you compare these three, only one really stands out in Gaming History and in particular Nintendo History."

Street Fighter and Megaman as seperate series both did revolutionary things with massive popularity pre-and-post Nintendo. One was just not considered because we grouped them both as Capcom series.

Sonic being in doesn't mean NiGHTs will, because the latter doesn't come close to compare to Sonic, Snake, Megaman, Pac-Man, Ryu, and the theoretical Black Mage.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

the issue i see with is that he dosnt have the legacy that the other charcter have and ryu are house hold names

Are you just saying that because there is a possibility of Ryu getting in Smash and pretty much has been "confirmed"?

Mario and Pacman define gaming.

Megaman and Sonic are some of the biggest Video game mascots besides Mario and Pacman.

Ryu is only the face of fighting games, he is not the level of Mario, Sonic, Pacman, or Megaman.

To be honest, the only true house hold names are Mario and Pacman. Mainly because even those who don't play video games know who they are.

 

[Kenith]

Here's a fun thought. One cartoony mascot type character, one more mature, human character.

Capcom: Mega Man and Ryu.
Sega: Sonic and... eh, Bayonetta.
Namco: Pac-Man and... that Lloyd guy I kept hearing about?
Konami: Bomberman and Snake.


Ubisoft: Rayman and some Assassin's Creed guy probably.




Squeenix: No clue whatsoever.

Replace Lloyd with Nightmare or Heihachi.
For Square Enix, Black Mage for cartoony and Lara Croft for mature.

 

[Spazzy_D]

This prediction roster is not final.

20 is a bit of stretch. There are also too many third party characters. If we are doing "too many character DLC prediction rosters," here's my shot at it:

15 DLC characters, which I personally think is on the high side (6-12 seems like a safer bet.) Simon Belmont, Ryu Hayabusa, and Black Mage aren't actually on my roster; think of them more as backups. I included them as acceptable substitutes for the third party characters that are already present.

This is basically a dream roster that lands within the realm of possibility as opposed to something I think has any reasonable chance of happening.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Square/Squaresoft/Square-Enix is, without arguement, one of the most notable third party choices due to their really strong Nintendo relation up to the N64/PS1 split and basically revolutionizing the grounds of what JRPGs would build from to this day.
Of course, Geno has his supporters which lasted from namely the Brawl era off of just an overall really solid JRPG without the stupid levels of grinding that was eventually "carried on" by Paper Mario and the M&L RPG games.

Honestly, they are comparable to Capcom in terms of relations to Nintendo and how they've treated their series. Since Brawl they've been talked about, by fans of course, as being the next big 3rd Party to be Smash represented.

Square basically has 3 "major" series that people will dispute for where to pick. That of course excludes the 1/2-off characters like Geno, Chrono, or Neku.

1) Kingdom Hearts - A series with a love-hate relationship with Nintendo. Where, excluding the 1.5/2.5 remixes, had 4 of 7 titles on Nintendo (only 1 being shared between Sony and Nintendo by the two versions of Chain of Memories). But, as this is owned by Disney and is coming to a close with Xehanort's story after KH3 which is going to basically everyone BUT Nintendo, there's too much to bury this.

2) Dragon Warrior/Quest - The OTHER major JRPG series of Square which in main games and spinoffs has been, once again, split between Nintendo and Sony with some characters being present for Fortune Street (and possibly earlier titles of that series, never looked into it) and Mario Sports Mix.

3) Let's face it.... the BIG thing of Square.... Final Fantasy. 1-6 being made for Nintendo along with Tactics Advance-Advance 2, and various other spin-offs while the later games of course went Sony-focused. The way that I see it, while Cloud may be a bit more of a "Posterboy," I feel like it'd be more logical to be one of the characters that have already visited the Mario/Nintendo-verse with crossovers. From Mario Hoops 3-on-3 and Mario Sports Mix, that'd be 5 characters.
Black Mage, White Mage, Ninja, Cactaur, Moogle. And... almost in this kind of tier because of how it can/has represented MANY jobs of the series in a spin-off which last visited the wii, Chocobo.
I think it's fair to say that Ninja, Cactuar, and Moogle become the lower half of these two.
Black Mage, White Mage, and the "Fantasy Dungeon" Chocobo.

Spoiler

I think I have my vote.

Finally, people realize how good of a choice Black Mage is. While he fulfills all of the criteria required to be a character, one of the arguments people use against him is "muh relevance" since you only saw him in Mario spinoffs these days while his original game came out years ago.

Hell, I would be fine with any Final Fantasy character than isn't Cloud or any of the other generic "meh" characters from the PS-Era Final Fantasy games.

I say we all support Slime & Chocobo. Our new duo.

And to think it was another one of Arcadenik's unique ideas like the Team Rocket Duo and Wandering Warriors.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Are you just saying that because there is a possibility of Ryu getting in Smash and pretty much has been "confirmed"?

Mario and Pacman define gaming.

Megaman and Sonic are some of the biggest Video game mascots besides Mario and Pacman.

Ryu is only the face of fighting games, he is not the level of Mario, Sonic, Pacman, or Megaman.

To be honest, the only true house hold names are Mario and Pacman. Mainly because even those who don't play video games know who they are.

Because of those 6 I mentioned in total, 3 have only a game or two in total. 1 of them is owned by a completely different company and did nothing too spectacular. Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are the big two for Square in the running. And frankly, Dragon Quest never stood out to make any major changes or ground-breaking popularity like Final Fantasy. Ryu and Street Fighter have merits much beyond the options within Dragon Quest. Ryu has merits on-par with Snake, Megaman, and arguably Sonic. The better way of looking at Ryu is "Multiple iconic series of a 3rd Party company can be represented." Can and WILL having two very different connotations.

I'm not trying to say "Square has a gun to their head and had to choose between favorite children for the throne of Smashdom." I'm seeing it as "When you compare these three, only one really stands out in Gaming History and in particular Nintendo History."

You will need to be prepared to make counter arguments against detractors who say that Final Fantasy Abandoned Nintendo and has not come back. Dragon Quest is also along the lines of this, but you can at least find their games among the Wii and 3DS (and I mean the main titles).

[This is not in favor of Dragon Quest, but counter arguments pit against you.]

Street Fighter and Megaman as seperate series both did revolutionary things with massive popularity pre-and-post Nintendo. One was just not considered because we grouped them both as Capcom series.

Sonic being in doesn't mean NiGHTs will, because the latter doesn't come close to compare to Sonic, Snake, Megaman, Pac-Man, Ryu, and the theoretical Black Mage.

Why do you have Ryu, Black Mage and Snake there?

Pacman is the most iconic, since he is known even in house holds that don't play video games alongside Mario.

Then comes the big mascots Sonic and Megaman.

Then the rest can put somewhere.

Again, the rules for which eligible Third Party character can get in is changed all the time. There are no set rules, only what we can deduce what is going to happen based on what already has.

 

[Starphoenix]

Ryu is only the face of fighting games, he is not the level of Mario, Sonic, Pacman, or Megaman.

Considering every iteration of Street Fighter sells more per installment than three of those franchises, I think you're grossly understating the popularity and cultural impact of Street Fighter, and conversely Ryu. He may be "that karate guy from that fighting game," but considering a majority of casual gamers probably only vaguely knew where Mega Man came from I don't think Ryu will have any less cache.

If you want to make a case that as a character he may not fit within the Super Smash Bros that'd be one thing, but saying he is less of an icon than those three is really silly.