Character Discussion Thread

[Cutie Gwen]

Something is wrong when Dr. Mario is the most different of the clone trinity. He was the only one of the three given unique idle animations, and the only one that has different properties across the board. The sad thing is up until Dark Pit and Lucina, he was the most similar clone in the series.

On a closing note on Doc, I am disappointed he was basically stripped of his advantages he had in Melee, basically nullifying the worth of his return.

Wasn't Melee Doc literally a stronger Mario with a different projectile with a oh so slightly reduced speed?

 

[ChronoBound]

Wasn't Melee Doc literally a stronger Mario with a different projectile with a oh so slightly reduced speed?

All of his specials had different properties I think (not sure about the Up-B). Some of his regular moves also had different properties.

 

[Deleted member]

Something is wrong when Dr. Mario is the most different of the clone trinity. He was the only one of the three given unique idle animations, and the only one that has different properties across the board. The sad thing is up until Dark Pit and Lucina, he was the most similar clone in the series.

On a closing note on Doc, I am disappointed he was basically stripped of his advantages he had in Melee, basically nullifying the worth of his return.

This is why a DLC patch to declone the clones needs to happen. I don't mean make them totally new. But tweak their properties so they aren't redundant copies of existing characters. It literally wouldn't take much work, and it'd be well worth the effort.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Seriously?

Why did they bring that old theory back up again anyway?

I don't know
Try asking Etika
(And I may as well put the video)

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

Dr. Mario lost some of his advantages largely due to the changes made between Melee and Sm4sh IMO. Kinda like what happened with Falcon in Brawl but much less severe.

And I know I've said this before, but they could have put more effort into Lucina. At least change two of her specials and her properties to differentiate her from Marth more beyond the lack of a tipper.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Something is wrong when Dr. Mario is the most different of the clone trinity. He was the only one of the three given unique idle animations, and the only one that has different properties across the board. The sad thing is up until Dark Pit and Lucina, he was the most similar clone in the series.

The thing about "clone" characters was that I expected any newcomer "clone" characters to be more on the semi-clone variety rather than... well, being as different as Lucina and Dark Pit were.

 

[N3ON]

The blank spaces theory has always been dumb but at least it's never really mattered. This is no exception.

 

[Frostwraith]

You're implying that all the decisions Sakurai has taken with Smash have been good:

inb4 it's a clone that took little effort. Other clones would have been taken better.

Where the hell is Dark Samus then? And why does Edgy Pit have more work done to him than lazy *** Lucina?

All of the Smash 4 clones were picked out of alt costumes already implemented in the game and had minor changes done to them. They could have been left as alts, but the way the game is designed, alts are meant to be solely aesthetic changes.

That by default left the only following choices:
- Dr. Mario
- The 7 Koopalings
- Overalls Wario
- Wire Frame Little Mac
- Lucina
- Dark Pit
- Female Robin
- The other Villagers
- Alph
- Male Wii Fit Trainer

The only viable choices for clones end up being 4, as most are just outfit changes or gender swaps. The Koopalings are excluded because having 7 clones of the same character is a bad idea.

That leaves four choices:
- Dr. Mario
- Dark Pit
- Lucina
- Alph

They were running low on budget and time and didn't want to spend such resources in mere extra content, so building off Olimar's complex Pikmin mechanics is a potentially risky moves.

That leaves three choices:

The models were already done and the changes were easy to implement as the three base characters are pretty straightforward with their movesets, with no complex or overly unique mechanics to edit.

Mario was edited to be based on Melee Dr. Mario and Lucina was designed with newcomer-friendliness in mind, by removing the tippers (easy to do as it's merely removing the tip's hitboxes in the moveset and tweak the damage output of the remaining hit box). Dark Pit actually was the last character to be added and has the least changes compared to the other two clone. The most unique thing about him is the Final Smash and, even so, that's based on Zelda's Light Arrow.

The clones were added with viability and ease of development in mind, as they're meant to be nothing but a small amount of extra content.

Then again, clone hating is really overblown when absolutely nothing would have taken their place. They're bonus content that hardly took anything away from the game, given how awfully easy they were to fully implement.

This is the type of content some of the developers could have implemented in their spare time for around a week or so.

Hell, just the first wave of DLC (Mewtwo, Lucas and Mii outfit pack 1) amounts to far more work than the 3 clones took.

By itself, this type of content isn't exactly bad, otherwise any sort of Easter Egg found in other games would be bad decisions as well. And I've played games with Easter Eggs that had a lot more work put into them than the minimal effort that went into Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit.

Then again, knowing that people hardly have knowledge on software development and programming, it's only expected that ignorant nonsense will be spouted...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

All of his specials had different properties I think (not sure about the Up-B). Some of his regular moves also had different properties.

I'm pretty sure there was no downside for Doc compared to Mario. I do remember him having reversed sweet and sourspots

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't know
Try asking Etika
(And I may as well put the video)

Oh.... Etika.....

Nevermind then..... :T

 

[ChronoBound]

Meanwhile **** Pit gets the ElectroShocker and a bunch of other crap.
.

Dark Pit only has a measly four differences from Pit:
1. Arrows have different properties.
2. Electroshock Arm throws people at a different angle than Pit's Uppercut Arm.
3. Different Final Smashes
4. One of the regular moves have different properties from one another.

That's it.

I am not sure if any differences exist between Lucina and Marth aside from the lack of a tipper, and Lucina being slightly shorter than Marth.

So both clones barely had any work put into them in terms of differentiating them.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I like the clone idea, but it would also alienate the fans who used the clones as their mains.
It's not something I see happening as much as I would like to see a tweaked Dark Pit moveset.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Dark Pit only has a measly four differences from Pit:
1. Arrows have different properties.
2. Electroshock Arm throws people at a different angle than Pit's Uppercut Arm.
3. Different Final Smashes
4. One of the regular moves have different properties from one another.

That's it.

I am not sure if any differences exist between Lucina and Marth aside from the lack of a tipper, and Lucina being slightly shorter than Marth.

So both clones barely had any work put into them in terms of differentiating them.

Pretty much a case of them being so because of how simple they were to implement. Though it's kinda weird that they had so little time to the point where the newcomer clones were this different when the newcomer clones in Melee were more different (then again, it's not really that big of a deal to me).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I like the clone idea, but it would also alienate the fans who used the clones as their mains.
It's not something I see happening as much as I would like to see a tweaked Dark Pit moveset.

The only differences my friend who mains Pit noticed where arrows and Side B launching in a different direction

 

[Frostwraith]

Pretty much a case of them being so because of how simple they were to implement. Though it's kinda weird that they had so little time to the point where the newcomer clones were this different when the newcomer clones in Melee were more different (then again, it's not really that big of a deal to me).

The clones in Melee and clones in Smash 4 are completely different situations:
- In Melee, they wanted to expand the roster and went through planning and they had to design their models and moves.
- In Smash 4, they're just glorified alts with some very slight changes. Except for Dr. Mario, but even so, they had the Melee design to go off from, which by itself saved a crapload of time.

Not quite comparable, I'd say.

 

[Starphoenix]

Dark Pit only has a measly four differences from Pit:
1. Arrows have different properties.
2. Electroshock Arm throws people at a different angle than Pit's Uppercut Arm.
3. Different Final Smashes
4. One of the regular moves have different properties from one another.

That's it.

I am not sure if any differences exist between Lucina and Marth aside from the lack of a tipper, and Lucina being slightly shorter than Marth.

So both clones barely had any work put into them in terms of differentiating them.

Can't really fault Sakurai. They were going to end up Alph-style alts otherwise. (Why not make Alph a clone too?) Contrary to public opinion, they didn't "steal" any spots from anyone else. In fact, whatever characters were put on the backburner are getting in, albeit late, anyways.

If people want to be mad about something be mad that they made the UI look so ugly.

 

[Wolfie557]

Just curious, but why are all the oldest character support threads from 2012? Thought the site was much older than that.

 

[Frostwraith]

Just curious, but why are all the oldest character support threads from 2012? Thought the site was much older than that.

The Smash 4 boards only opened in 2012, when the game was announced by Iwata.

The forums date all the way back to 2000 or 2001, though.

Can't really fault Sakurai. They were going to end up Alph-style alts otherwise. (Why not make Alph a clone too?) Contrary to public opinion, they didn't "steal" any spots from anyone else. In fact, whatever characters were put on the backburner are getting in, albeit late, anyways.

If people want to be mad about something be mad that they made the UI look so ugly.

Alph was probably not made an alt due to the more complex Pikmin mechanics.

Remember that viability and ease of development were key factors in the clones' development, hence why they barely have any changes.

 

[Curious Villager]

Just curious, but why are all the oldest character support threads from 2012? Thought the site was much older than that.

Smashboards didn't start allowing us making support threads for Smash 4 specifically until 2012 because that's around when the Smash 4 boards opened.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Just curious, but why are all the oldest character support threads from 2012? Thought the site was much older than that.

They were supporting those characters for SSB4.

 

[N3ON]

The Smash 4 boards only opened in 2012, when the game was announced by Iwata.

The forums date all the way back to 2000 or 2001, though.

(the game was announced in 2011, much too early)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hey, so, I just read the new Fire Emblem Avatar from FE14 will be able to use Dragon Stones...

 

[Frostwraith]

The clones were consequence of the fact the main game's development schedule had some little free time to implement them. They were likely implemented during the balancing process, where they do tweaks to characters nonstop. Some of those tweaks and balancing ideas were just spun-off into clone characters.

A lot of the characters scrapped mid-development are likely coming back through DLC, so I think beating the clone trio dead horse is just a waste of time.

Plus, there's a freaking ballot for new characters.

Are the clones still the big issue they never were in the first place?

I'd guess that they could have delayed the game to implement more characters and content, but launching the game on the holiday season and releasing DLC afterwards is a far more viable solution.

 

[Starphoenix]

Alph was probably not made an alt due to the more complex Pikmin mechanics.

Remember that viability and ease of development were key factors in the clones' development, hence why they barely have any changes.

They could have tweaked his tilts. Either way, maybe this new balance patch will tweak some of the clones.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If the FE14 avatar does have a dragonstone, I'll certainly make this my bigger support over Tiki.

 

[Frostwraith]

They could have tweaked his tilts. Either way, maybe this new balance patch will tweak some of the clones.

Well, I guess so.

An hypothesis is that they wanted to make Alph a clone, but didn't have any ideas or enough time to implement him as such.

Dark Pit's stand out feature is the Final Smash being the Dark Pit Staff's sniper shot, but even so, that was only possible to implement in little time because Zelda's Light Arrow worked well as a base for that. Otherwise, I doubt they would have had time and resources to implement it.

Dr. Mario's more unique moves are on a similar boat, being based on Luigi. I'm talking about the down special and down aerial.

Hey, so, I just read the new Fire Emblem Avatar from FE14 will be able to use Dragon Stones...

If the FE14 avatar does have a dragonstone, I'll certainly make this my bigger support over Tiki.

Kamui does use dragonstones in addition to swords. The first FE protagonist to be a shapeshifter.

For the next Smash, he/she is definitely a possibility for a unique newcomer.

Marth (+ Lucina), Ike - Lords
Robin - Mage
Kamui - Dragon

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Because going from Mega Man, Sonic the Hedgehog and Pac-Man to those three are a major step down no matter how you slice it.

Ehhh...Quote, while still being a slight step down, is still pretty important. I don't expect him yes, and I don't really want him all that much, but I wouldn't say he isn't legendary.

They could have tweaked his tilts. Either way, maybe this new balance patch will tweak some of the clones.

Is there a reason to though?
Lucina had a "different sword." Dark pit had dark arrows. Dr. Mario was a doctor do his attacks doing more damage makes sense.

What is different about Alph that makes changing his tilts justified?

 

[Ivander]

For the next Smash, he/she is definitely a possibility for a unique newcomer.

Marth (+ Lucina), Ike - Lords
Robin - Mage
Kamui - Dragon

I would imagine Fire Emblem 15 being around before Smash 5. Sure he would be unique, but so far, besides Marth, the only Fire Emblem newcomers have been characters from the last released Fire Emblem. Or in Roy's case, the last Fire Emblem about to come out.

 

[aldelaro5]

Just curious, but why are all the oldest character support threads from 2012? Thought the site was much older than that.

History: the whole ssb4 forum was created when ssb4 was announced....which is really old. Nothing happened until 2014 with E3 (but there was some Sakurai quotes).

The Paper Mario thread is actually aefully old comparing to when i got OP. I got the OP 11 months ago, but I think the thread existed 1 or 2 years before that....

I think Ridley is 2012 too.

It's just when a whol forum was dedicated to the game, they made it early.

 

[Diddy Kong]

New with Dragon Stone would be hype.

 

[Wintropy]

If the FE14 avatar does have a dragonstone, I'll certainly make this my bigger support over Tiki.

THEN WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU POST IN THE TIKI THREAD, DUDE?! ;w;

I jest.

Not really.

If a transforming character gets in at all, I'll consider it a victory. :3

 

[Burruni]

I would imagine Fire Emblem 15 being around before Smash 5. Sure he would be unique, but so far, besides Marth, the only Fire Emblem newcomers have been characters from the last released Fire Emblem. Or in Roy's case, the last Fire Emblem about to come out.

Actually, there's a significant factor to the current FE reps that people overlook.

: First Fire Emblem character to be a protagonist of more than one game (in fact, the only one by the time Brawl was in the works). FE 1, 3, and their remakes 11, 12.

: Protagonist of FE 9 and 10. Also the only Non-Marth to get a significant character to take his helm in 13's descendants in the form of the last Free DLC map, Priam.

: One of effectively 3 Protagonists of FE13, but a PLAYABLE My Unit class was first implimented into FE 12 and was written into the story, this CONCEPT, while not being the exact same character is in fact taking the sole protagonist spot in IF.

and were rushed into the roster as Marth clones for different reasons, but should be considered exceptions to the rule.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

So I decided to go "SCREW THIS" and voted for K. Rool via mobile phone.

If I can find another outlet, I'll be sure to vote for other characters.

 

[Spinosaurus]

All of the Smash 4 clones were picked out of alt costumes already implemented in the game and had minor changes done to them. They could have been left as alts, but the way the game is designed, alts are meant to be solely aesthetic changes.

That by default left the only following choices:
- Dr. Mario
- The 7 Koopalings
- Overalls Wario
- Wire Frame Little Mac
- Lucina
- Dark Pit
- Female Robin
- The other Villagers
- Alph
- Male Wii Fit Trainer

The only viable choices for clones end up being 4, as most are just outfit changes or gender swaps. The Koopalings are excluded because having 7 clones of the same character is a bad idea.

Aw man I'd have loved an Overalls Wario clone.

I mean even if the differences are so minor it'd be totally cool if my main had a clone that gave him a different playstyle.

And then they can give him a Wario Land moveset next game and everyone wins.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I think these are the characters with the highest chances of getting in.

Spoiler

can we just vote for them and no one else pls?

 

[Spinosaurus]

I'm voting for my Rhythm Heaven character and Snake and you're not stopping me. >:[

 

[JaidynReiman]

Actually, there's a significant factor to the current FE reps that people overlook.

: First Fire Emblem character to be a protagonist of more than one game (in fact, the only one by the time Brawl was in the works). FE 1, 3, and their remakes 11, 12.

: Protagonist of FE 9 and 10. Also the only Non-Marth to get a significant character to take his helm in 13's descendants in the form of the last Free DLC map, Priam.

: One of effectively 3 Protagonists of FE13, but a PLAYABLE My Unit class was first implimented into FE 12 and was written into the story, this CONCEPT, while not being the exact same character is in fact taking the sole protagonist spot in IF.

and were rushed into the roster as Marth clones for different reasons, but should be considered exceptions to the rule.

This is also why I do not think we'd get Kamui as a character in the next Smash. Robin fits the role of representing the Avatar tactician, and since transformations are difficult to do without being the Final Smash, the Dragonstone really wouldn't play into Kamui's moveset anyway, so Kamui likely wouldn't be a good character to utilize.


The dancer girl from 14 could work, though, assuming we haven't already gotten a better option from 15.

All of the Smash 4 clones were picked out of alt costumes already implemented in the game and had minor changes done to them. They could have been left as alts, but the way the game is designed, alts are meant to be solely aesthetic changes.

That by default left the only following choices:
- Dr. Mario
- The 7 Koopalings
- Overalls Wario
- Wire Frame Little Mac
- Lucina
- Dark Pit
- Female Robin
- The other Villagers
- Alph
- Male Wii Fit Trainer

The argument was specifically that they found something new to do with Lucina, and Dark Pit "did not fit" using the 3 Sacred Treasures. Yes, they are basic clones, but this still leaves a sour taste in my mouth, because Dark Pit fits using "the 3 Sacred Treasures" just as much as the Koopalings fit using Shadow Mario. I don't give a crap that Dark Pit is a simplistic clone; its a lame excuse as to why he did it in the first place.

I think these are the characters with the highest chances of getting in.

Spoiler

can we just vote for them and no one else pls?

These are honestly the only ones I'd like to see, anyway. Rayman, 'eh, don't care too much, but he's the best third-party DLC option. The only other one I think could potentially deserve it is Quote (and the only viable Indie). I really do think we won't get more than one third-party DLC character, honestly.


But anyone can vote for whoever they want.

I'm voting for my Rhythm Heaven character and Snake and you're not stopping me. >:[

Admittedly, I think Rhythm Heaven should get a character before Splatoon...

 

[A10theHero]

Well, I finally had access to Photoshop again today, and as you can see from my signature, I've been busy.

 

[Diddy Kong]

King K.Rool, Dixie Kong, Impa, Isaac, Banjo-Kazooie.

I care for little else. Krystal and Bandana Dee are also cool, but won't be actively voting for them (sry)

 

[Arcadenik]

Aw man I'd have loved an Overalls Wario clone.

I mean even if the differences are so minor it'd be totally cool if my main had a clone that gave him a different playstyle.

And then they can give him a Wario Land moveset next game and everyone wins.

I wish Overalls Wario was an unique character with moves based on Wario Land games...