Character Discussion Thread

[N3ON]

Well, Nintendo and Microsoft aren't exactly rivals as they target different markets within the industry generally, and their fanbases and available games don't exactly cross over. In fact, working together would turn out to be mutually beneficial tbh.

Microsoft and Sony now... THAT'S a different story.

However, devs and stuff usually tend to be in friendlier terms with one another, as we've seen with Kojima and Sakurai, and now Phil's tweet. It's just the idiot fans who **** their pants in their stupid "war" over a plastic box.

I mean, think about it realistically. Why wouldn't they exactly? Collaboration between these two companies would turn a profit for both. And the character in question is an icon in Nintendo's history. It really isn't out of the scope of possibility from a business standpoint. In fact, the two of them working on a bigger project together to play on our nostalgia and rake in cash could also realistically happen.

Really ask yourself... Why not?

I have to imagine there's a reason that kind of stuff rarely if ever happens though...

But there is a (rocky) history of Nintendo and Microsoft trying to handle Rare's content together, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, so it isn't outside the realm of possibility, and it would certainly benefit the fans, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo didn't have as much of a willing mentality as Microsoft about it.

That said, even if Nintendo likes to do it's own thing, and even if they're friendly, all three of the console makers are still rivals. On the portable space it's a bit of a different story.

I think Wolf, King K. Rool, and Inkling are the most likely at this point. In my eyes Wolf is guaranteed, King K. Rool is winning this Fighter Ballot, and Inkling is going to be announced around the time of Splatoon's release.

I very much doubt we'll get any more characters revealed before E3.

 

[Spinosaurus]

2. He thinks shrinking him will ruin his menecing looks, well pretty much 90% of smashboards doesn't see that (correct me on percentage.) me including serveral others still think ridley is menencing even shrunken..

Just wanna note that our opinion here means crap, no matter how many of us share the same opinon. Smashboards only has approx. 184,200 members. That's a REALLY small minority. Even adding the other internet communities (taking into account this is the biggest Smash fansite) won't make much of a difference considering Smash is a multi-million selling franchise.

It's unfortunate, but we can't exacty show Sakurai anything. At least there's the ballot for characters.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

Sakurai and his team are going to have to go through a lot of votes by the time October rolls around. Unless they're looking through them all of course.

 

[Deathlightning21]

Sakurai and his team are going to have to go through a lot of votes by the time October rolls around. Unless they're looking through them all of course.

They would have to look through all of them to make the deadline at this point.

 

[Burruni]

I just want the cut characters and King K... Please no inkling. I don't get why we are voting for a character whose game isn't even out yet, over characters that actually already have value to Nintendo.

Because a character being in Smash BEFORE their game was released isn't something new for Nintendo?
Because they're a recent IP/Game with a swell of popularity which people enjoy/are excited for has been a BIT of a focus with the newcomers this time around ()
Because Splatoon got a LARGE amount of E3 love, almost comparable to that of Smash itself.
Because Splatoon is a game that people are seeming to fall in love with more and more with each time new information is released?
Because Splatoon is getting special Amiibos just for it, comparable to Yoshi's Wooly World?
Because they're a character that has a creative idea and moveset potential capable from what little we've seen?
Because people want to support the game?
When it comes to NEW IPs from Nintendo, they often get one offs and fade away. This is one that people seem to be going crazy over and thus it getting some stake in Smash seems like a logical step that some would go for.

I'm not saying YOU have to follow that mentality. I'm just trying to give you some reasons why others have it.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Just wanna note that our opinion here means crap, no matter how many of us share the same opinon. Smashboards only has approx. 184,200 members. That's a REALLY small minority. Even adding the other internet communities (taking into account this is the biggest Smash fansite) won't make much of a difference considering Smash is a multi-million selling franchise.

It's unfortunate, but we can't exacty show Sakurai anything. At least there's the ballot for characters.

ok correction

lots of fans around the world doesn't see ridleys menacing looks disappear when shrunk

and you do know you can explain why its possible in yours/peoples vote(s)

 

[Deleted member]

I have to imagine there's a reason that kind of stuff rarely if ever happens though...

But there is a (rocky) history of Nintendo and Microsoft trying to handle Rare's content together, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, so it isn't outside the realm of possibility, and it would certainly benefit the fans, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo didn't have as much of a willing mentality as Microsoft about it.

That said, even if Nintendo likes to do it's own thing, and even if they're friendly, all three of the console makers are still rivals. On the portable space it's a bit of a different story.

Well, look at the bigger picture, the gaming industry is much larger than just the big 3. You also have Steam, PC, and the mobile phone market, which in truth takes the biggest share. And with all the large 3rd party companies, and the indy market, it's a lot more dynamic than it was 15 years ago.

As far as the big three go, times have long since changed since the 6th generation. Nintendo doesn't stand on the same platform it used to, and they've become a lot more open toward exploring new ventures and ideas they were once opposed to (DLC, mobile platforms, and now the NX and it's rumors).

Plus, bear in mind that we got DK64 on VC with the Rare assets, and as said by Phil, they have worked together before. The past is the past Katie, and when money talks, well, money does talk. I think it might just happen considering how it blew up. At least I certainly hope so. We'll probably see the major youtubers talk about this tomorrow, and I'm certain Banjo will be at least taking one of the top spots (alongside Goku and Shrek that is ).

I think that with how the industry is now, it doesn't really fall out of the real of possibility that two first party developers would work together on some negotiations for a major game like Smash Bros. I mean, after the ballots were announced every 3rd party and indy studio began to back their characters for Smash, it just goes to show how big this is, and if Banjo DOES wind up showing up on the console, it would be HUGE news. I'm certain it would even sell WiiUs on hype alone. Because that's how the mainstream works.

 

[Bowserlick]

I voted for K. Rool. I appreciate that Bowser Jr. is a very different flavor of heavyweight and that Charizard as grown into the role well. But I am still craving for another extremely heavy, big bruiser.

 

[Starphoenix]

Snake, at the time of Brawl's inception, "helped" Sony. There was no way Metal Gear Solid IV was coming to the Wii, and yet Super Smash Broa acknowledged the title (sans the Playstation name) still. Cannot see how it'd be any different with Banjo-Kazooie. Besides, they'd probably reference the two N64 titles primarily anyways.

 

[Kalimdori]

I just have to wonder, even though it will no doubt sell well, if Nintendo would be willing to include a character which is basically just going to promote their competition.

And yeah yeah, they had Snake. But at least he appears on Nintendo systems every once in a while.

That's easy to fix, just have Banjo DLC comes with Virtual Console releases of his first two games.

 

[RoseyBetch]

Banjo is now somewhat possible. I must grasp onto this straw and hold on for dear life. :D

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Could I have a summary of the last pages? I heard that there was some news that Banjo & Kazooie would be no problem according to Microsoft, and if its true:

BRING BACK OUR CHILDHOOD!!!

Edit: I just also want to state that I love every ounce of support and the activity that is happening ever since the announcement of the Polls. It's certainly keeping me busy, seeing all the support for everyone's favourite characters!

 

[SmashChu]

That's easy to fix, just have Banjo DLC comes with Virtual Console releases of his first two games.

Can't do that because Microsoft owns the games.

 

[RoseyBetch]

Can't do that because Microsoft owns the games.

You clearly need to read this, friend:
http://nintendoeverything.com/xbox-...-banjo-being-included-in-next-smash-bros-dlc/

 

[Kalimdori]

Can't do that because Microsoft owns the games.

Yes, what's your point? They also own the characters, but they seem to be willing to work with Nintendo on that regard.

 

[Deleted member]

Can't do that because Microsoft owns the games.

Microsoft also owns the assets to a lot of content in DK64, including Jetpac, which is why DK64 was never on Wii VC, but now we're getting that for WiiU VC.

Seeing Banjo and Conker come to VC is not out of the realm of possibility if negociations are made.

>Banjo DLC for Smash
>Banjo amiibo
>Conker, B-K, and B-T for WiiU VC

I would buy all of it, and considering how far the news of the tweet have spread in so little time, and how hyped everyone is for the possibility of seeing Banjo in Smash, I'm certain many would too. For Nintendo and Microsoft to pass up on such a gold mine would just be... disappointing.


EDIT: Also, is it just me, or does anyone else think that the Inklings getting amiibos might just be good bearings for the possibility of Inkling also being DLC?

 

[Kalimdori]

EDIT: Also, is it just me, or does anyone else think that the Inklings getting amiibos might just be good bearings for the possibility of Inkling also being DLC?

Honestly, I don't think so. Toad also got an Amiibo, but I don't necessarily think that increased his chances all that much. The Inkling Amiibo is coming to promote the new game, they might use it for Smash in the future, but I don't think it means much in terms of the Inklings chances.

 

[Wintropy]

Banjo in Smash would probably trump Ridley in terms of overwhelming hype generated.

At least comparable to that of Sonic's big reveal.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

/r/smashbros is going wild with Phil Spencer's tweet about Banjo and Kazooie.

There's going to be a lot of votes for them for sure.

 

[The Light Music Club]

BANJO
A
N
J
O

Also, Inkling would be cool. But I'd rather have muh bear n' bird. Nothing else matters nao.

Oh yeah, I want Banjo too. I love Banjo


But seriously if you're gonna use Roy as an example for Inkling, just look at the fact Roy isn't in the game anymore.

I just don't think Inkling should be voted on because we haven't even played the full game, no one knows if its good yet or bad. I hate when Nintendo shoves things down throats like Rosalina, or the Koopa Kids, Inkling will hopefully not be another.

 

[Wintropy]

Gonna play devil's advocate here and say that I'm not pushed on Banjo as a newcomer.

The game is fun and all, but it's far from my favourite, and I'm already skeptical of the borderline-zealous reaction.

I'm a Ridley supporter, I know what zealotry looks like. And it's never pretty.

Anywho, just my two cents. I'm happy for the fans that this has been brought to the surface, I'm just gonna go back to my Tiki and Wonder Red threads~

 

[Deleted member]

Oh yeah, I want Banjo too. I love Banjo


But seriously if you're gonna use Roy as an example for Inkling, just look at the fact Roy isn't in the game anymore.

I just don't think Inkling should be voted on because we haven't even played the full game, no one knows if its good yet or bad. I hate when Nintendo shoves things down throats like Rosalina, or the Koopa Kids, Inkling will hopefully not be another.

If Splatoon is successful, which, considering the hype, I think it will be, Inkling is a given for the next Smash. So it doesn't matter ultimately.

Either way, ballots end in October, and Splatoon will release before then, so any Splatoon content in Smash wouldn't be a priori like Roy. If anything, Inkling would be a case where post release DLC is very well justified if there's the fan demand for it.

Gonna play devil's advocate here and say that I'm not pushed on Banjo as a newcomer.

The game is fun and all, but it's far from my favourite, and I'm already skeptical of the borderline-zealous reaction.

I'm a Ridley supporter, I know what zealotry looks like. And it's never pretty.

Anywho, just my two cents. I'm happy for the fans that this has been brought to the surface, I'm just gonna go back to my Tiki and Wonder Red threads~

Difference is that Banjo has unanimous hype unlike Ridley. A more fair comparison would be Sonic as mentioned above.

If you're not sold on it, that's cool. But some of us cherish those games as they hold dear childhood memories from an era long gone. Banjo in Smash could also potentially mean much more than seeing the duo return. Imagine Nintendo and Microsoft collaborating on projects much like Sega and Nintendo are now. Granted, the circumstances are different, and it IS a stretch, but one can dream, no?

I think the sudden reaction has more to do with that. Fans of the 64 era suddenly seeing a glimmer of hope for something that seemed impossible.

 

[Kalimdori]

I'm a Ridley supporter, I know what zealotry looks like. And it's never pretty.

Fans of characters currently in the game would disagree, fans in particular

Banjo and Kazooie, based on what I've seen, has always been the biggest pipe dream to get into Smash Bros. It was always thought he never had a chance due to Microsoft owning him, but now that we know that Microsoft wants him in, that pipe dream suddenly becomes possible. Heck I've never even played a Banjo Kazooie game, and I'm excited for the possibilities

 

[Dinoman96]

Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie are two of my favorite games of all time...but there is absolutely no way Banjo & Kazooie will ever be in Smash Bros. I'm pretty damn sure of that.

 

[SmashChu]

You clearly need to read this, friend:
http://nintendoeverything.com/xbox-...-banjo-being-included-in-next-smash-bros-dlc/

Yes, what's your point? They also own the characters, but they seem to be willing to work with Nintendo on that regard.

You're talking about two different things. Getting the character into the game is one thing, but having XBox games on the Wii U is a totally different story. Those games belong to Microsoft. Having them on there also diminishes the value of the XBox brand as you are essentially selling one of their games on a Nintendo (the competitor's) device. This is why you don't see Playstation games on the Virtual Console.

 

[Wintropy]

Difference is that Banjo has unanimous hype unlike Ridley. A more fair comparison would be Sonic as mentioned above.

If you're not sold on it, that's cool. But some of us cherish those games as they hold dear childhood memories from an era long gone. Banjo in Smash could also potentially mean much more than seeing the duo return. Imagine Nintendo and Microsoft collaborating on projects much like Sega and Nintendo are now. Granted, the circumstances are different, and it IS a stretch, but one can dream, no?

I think the sudden reaction has more to do with that. Fans of the 64 era suddenly seeing a glimmer of hope for something that seemed impossible.

"Unanimous hype" implies universal support. As my post demonstrates, not everybody is as turned on by the concept.

As I say, I'm not going to begrudge you your support. I think it's a swell idea and I'm all for it. Just saying that I, personally, am not convinced as others are. It's good to have voices of dissent, it greases the wheels of debate and enables a healthy environment of diversity.

Fans of characters currently in the game would disagree, fans in particular

Banjo and Kazooie, based on what I've seen, has always been the biggest pipe dream to get into Smash Bros. It was always thought he never had a chance due to Microsoft owning him, but now that we know that Microsoft wants him in, that pipe dream suddenly becomes possible. Heck I've never even played a Banjo Kazooie game, and I'm excited for the possibilities

I don't get your point. What does Palutena have to do with anything?

I have played Banjo-Kazooie, and it's great. They were born to be in Smash. But I am skeptical about this particular scenario. Microsoft never said they "want him in Smash", a high-ranking employee of the company suggested they would be willing to cooperate with Nintendo if they were approached about it. I doubt it means anything substantial for their chances, but it is a very nice detail regardless.

 

[Kalimdori]

You're talking about two different things. Getting the character into the game is one thing, but having XBox games on the Wii U is a totally different story. Those games belong to Microsoft. Having them on there also diminishes the value of the XBox brand as you are essentially selling one of their games on a Nintendo (the competitor's) device. This is why you don't see Playstation games on the Virtual Console.

If you were talking about just about any other game I might believe you, I certainly wouldn't expect a Halo game on a Nintendo console. But this is Banjo and Kazooie, a game that originated and is beloved by Nintendo fans across the world. If any Microsoft owned title were to make it onto Nintendo platforms, it would be one of their Rare-made games.

Plus you are basing your claims around an ideal that may or may not even be shared by the people involved. I highly doubt a corporation would care about "Diminishing the value of the Xbox brand" if they could make some money off of it and be loved by fans for doing it. People were saying similar things about how Nintendo would never go mobile, it was met with negative reception, but of course Nintendo did it anyway, because it was a logical thing to do.

If all parties are in agreement over something, both benefit from said agreement, and they will be loved for the agreement, they aren't going to turn back on it just because of the principle of the idea.

I don't get your point. What does Palutena have to do with anything?

You were talking about how being zealous about characters is never a good thing and ends badly. That's only true for the characters that didn't make it into the game.

 

[Deleted member]

You're talking about two different things. Getting the character into the game is one thing, but having XBox games on the Wii U is a totally different story. Those games belong to Microsoft. Having them on there also diminishes the value of the XBox brand as you are essentially selling one of their games on a Nintendo (the competitor's) device. This is why you don't see Playstation games on the Virtual Console.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there Sonic and Sega Genesis games on Virtual Console?

Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie are two of my favorite games of all time...but there is absolutely no way Banjo & Kazooie will ever be in Smash Bros. I'm pretty damn sure of that.

Did you see Phil's tweet?

"Unanimous hype" implies universal support. As my post demonstrates, not everybody is as turned on by the concept.

As I say, I'm not going to begrudge you your support. I think it's a swell idea and I'm all for it. Just saying that I, personally, am not convinced as others are. It's good to have voices of dissent, it greases the wheels of debate and enables a healthy environment of diversity.

What I meant by unanimous is that unlike Ridley not very many people are voicing reasons against it. Few are voicing apathy such as yourself, but the majority have shown enthusiasm. I just meant that comparing Banjo to Ridley isn't exactly right. Again, Sonic is a much better example since it's a very similar scenario.

I have played Banjo-Kazooie, and it's great. They were born to be in Smash. But I am skeptical about this particular scenario. Microsoft never said they "want him in Smash", a high-ranking employee of the company suggested they would be willing to cooperate with Nintendo if they were approached about it. I doubt it means anything substantial for their chances, but it is a very nice detail regardless.

These were Phil's exact words:

"I think it would be cool if Banjo was in the next SSB DLC. We've worked with Nintendo on Rare IP before, no issues."

I believe that's more than promising. He said nothing about being approached. He openly said he'd like to see him in, and why wouldn't he, it's massive publicity and PR. And he's not just a "high ranking member" he's head of the Xbox division responding to a request from a fan. This is the equivalent of Reggie or Iwata saying that they'd be fine with Fox appearing on Xbox if Fox had originated on that console.

 

[Strofirko]

I actually don't see banjo-kazooie happening,too much trouble for appealing only one fanbase.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

No. I've played the heck out of it but they don't have anyone iconic. Not to mention it's a mobile game.

That's why I specified Puzzle & Dragons Z, the game for the 3Ds.

 

[Dinoman96]

I have seen the tweet....and yet, it doesn't matter. Banjo/Kazooie are first party characters for Microsoft and that ain't changing. They aren't getting in.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I have seen the tweet....and yet, it doesn't matter. Banjo/Kazooie are first party characters for Microsoft and that ain't changing. They aren't getting in.

Who says Microsoft can't be represented?

 

[Mic_128]

Who says Microsoft can't be represented?

Everyone. There is no way they are going to promote a competitor. Microsoft or Nintendo.

 

[Dinoman96]

Who says Microsoft can't be represented?

who says disney theme parks can't have a jurassic park ride even though universal owns that property and is their primary competitor

 

[Wintropy]

You were talking about how being zealous about characters is never a good thing and ends badly. That's only true for the characters that didn't make it into the game.

No I didn't. I said it ain't pretty, in that it's not a considerate manner with which to respond to others and their opinions. Zealotry implies following a certain perspective or belief with violent tenacity, often to the detriment of other perspectives not shared by by the subject in particular.

Sometimes it does end well, insofar as one's ambitions are attained. And sometimes it's for a good cause. But I don't believe the ends justify the means, and I don't think dogma is something necessarily healthy in a debate. I have seen supporters in every fanbase imaginable dogmatically pursuing a certain agenda, and I find it to be quite a distasteful approach.

And I still don't understand what Palutena has to do with this. I wasn't around for Palutena's support, I have no idea how the fanbase pursued their aims, but if you're suggesting they were aggressively supporting her and blindsiding everything else, I can't say I agree with it either. I'm not so biased as to pardon behaviour that I believe to be wanting simply because I happen to support the same character.

What I meant by unanimous is that unlike Ridley not very many people are voicing reasons against it. Few are voicing apathy such as yourself, but the majority have shown enthusiasm. I just meant that comparing Banjo to Ridley isn't exactly right. Again, Sonic is a much better example since it's a very similar scenario.

These were Phil's exact words:

"I think it would be cool if Banjo was in the next SSB DLC. We've worked with Nintendo on Rare IP before, no issues."

I believe that's more than promising. He said nothing about being approached. He openly said he'd like to see him in, and why wouldn't he, it's massive publicity and PR. And he's not just a "high ranking member" he's head of the Xbox division responding to a request from a fan.

I know, and I get all of that. And as I said, it's a nice tribute. I think you should definitely support Banjo if you feel so inclined. More power to you.

What I am hesitant to accept is the notion that Banjo should take precedence over everybody else in the speculation community, and while I'm sure that's not the exact intention of the fans, I am already witnessing such sentiments being expressed. It's uncomfortable to think that speculation should become a political race to the finish without honour or mercy, and it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Not a good way to appeal to outlying potential supporters. It's undoubtedly a question of my interpretation of the issue, but I would feel infinitely less content with it if I didn't at least voice my opinion.

 

[Kalimdori]

Everyone. There is no way they are going to promote a competitor. Microsoft or Nintendo.

who says disney theme parks can't have a jurassic park ride even though universal owns that property and is their primary competitor

Crap, competitors can't work together on something? And I was so excited about Spiderman appearing in a Marvel movie...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Everyone. There is no way they are going to promote a competitor. Microsoft or Nintendo.

Then what the heck are 3rd party characters doing in Smash in the first place?

 

[Deleted member]

I actually don't see banjo-kazooie happening,too much trouble for appealing only one fanbase.

Too bad that fanbase (Rare) is apparently big enough to make it worthwhile. :^)

Everyone. There is no way they are going to promote a competitor. Microsoft or Nintendo.

Brawl directly promoted MGS4, a PS3 exclusive.

There were assets of MGS4 (Gekkos as well as music), and even direct reference to the game in the trophies before the game was even released. I think that qualifies as "promoting a competitor" since MGS4 was at the time, an still is a PS3 exclusive, and Nintendo never had any contracts in the works for the game showing up in any of their consoles.

Again, I think this console war bs is more something the fans see, than what actually goes on between devs. If the incentive to collaborate is there, they'll do it.

And Banjo has enough history with Nintendo to be considered more iconic of Nintendo than Microsoft, their representative games are on the N64 after all.

I know, and I get all of that. And as I said, it's a nice tribute. I think you should definitely support Banjo if you feel so inclined. More power to you.

What I am hesitant to accept is the notion that Banjo should take precedence over everybody else in the speculation community, and while I'm sure that's not the exact intention of the fans, I am already witnessing such sentiments being expressed. It's uncomfortable to think that speculation should become a political race to the finish without honour or mercy, and it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Not a good way to appeal to outlying potential supporters. It's undoubtedly a question of my interpretation of the issue, but I would feel infinitely less content with it if I didn't at least voice my opinion.

That's fine dude, but I don't see it as a political race. I'm not that passionate about videogames I'm afraid. Atm I'm just hyped at the possibility of seeing a relic of my childhood come back to make a long lost pipe dream actually become a reality.

 

[Kalimdori]

No I didn't. I said it ain't pretty, in that it's not a considerate manner with which to respond to others and their opinions. Zealotry implies following a certain perspective or belief with violent tenacity, often to the detriment of other perspectives not shared by by the subject in particular.

Sometimes it does end well, insofar as one's ambitions are attained. And sometimes it's for a good cause. But I don't believe the ends justify the means, and I don't think dogma is something necessarily healthy in a debate. I have seen supporters in every fanbase imaginable dogmatically pursuing a certain agenda, and I find it to be quite a distasteful approach.

And I still don't understand what Palutena has to do with this. I wasn't around for Palutena's support, I have no idea how the fanbase pursued their aims, but if you're suggesting they were aggressively supporting her and blindsiding everything else, I can't say I agree with it either. I'm not so biased as to pardon behaviour that I believe to be wanting simply because I happen to support the same character.

I am going to drop this, as quite honestly I didn't know the correct definition of "Zealotry" and misinterpreted what you were saying.

I grew up playing Starcraft, sue me

What I am hesitant to accept is the notion that Banjo should take precedence over everybody else in the speculation community, and while I'm sure that's not the exact intention of the fans, I am already witnessing such sentiments being expressed. It's uncomfortable to think that speculation should become a political race to the finish without honour or mercy, and it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Not a good way to appeal to outlying potential supporters. It's undoubtedly a question of my interpretation of the issue, but I would feel infinitely less content with it if I didn't at least voice my opinion.

The thing is, that for quite a lot of people, Banjo does take precedence over every other character, it's just that he's such a character that people have given up on him. I've never played a Banjo game, I don't have a personal connection with the character in any way shape or form, yet I would honestly give him precedence over Rayman, a childhood dream that I've wanted for over a decade. Because based on what I've seen, being a Banjo fan sucks worse then being a Ridley fan, Nintendo sold him and Microsoft doesn't do anything good with him, until Project Ukelele they'd been almost completely abandoned. I'd happily wait until the next Smash game to get Rayman if it meant helping those fans get their character revived.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Then what the heck are 3rd party characters doing in Smash in the first place?

The three third-parties in Smash right now are third-party characters who are HEAVILY associated with Nintendo in the past.


A direct competitor to Nintendo is a first-party console maker, and third-party developers who mostly make games on Nintendo consoles are also competitors in a sense to Nintendo.


First of all, first-party console maker is NOT the same as a third-party developer who can make games on any consoles. Then you have to look at the current Nintendo franchises and see that they've all HEAVILY supported Nintendo in the past.


As far as Banjo-Kazooie are concerned, they're a far better choice than Snake because at least they originated on Nintendo and were heavily associated with Nintendo. Technically MG did not originate on Nintendo, and then the first game got ported to SNES. MG didn't even get that popular until MGS, though, and those were almost strictly on Sony consoles. Kojima did manage to convince Nintendo to add Snake, but at the same time, they basically just supported a competitor to them because Konami still didn't make MGS games on Nintendo consoles anyway. So Nintendo went with people who more heavily supported them in the past like Capcom and Namco.

I don't think now would change anything. Rayman is the #1 most likely third-party, because at least Ubisoft did continue to support Nintendo with Rayman, even if they did screw it over.

Brawl directly promoted MGS4, a PS3 exclusive.

Exactly. Now look who isn't in the game now? And guess what? If Konami is saying they're still ok with Snake being in the game, WHO was it that cut Snake? NINTENDO!