Character Discussion Thread

[domokl]

My list of who I think are likely choices for dlc
Wolf(probably being worked on right now)
King k rool(seems to have a LOT of votes and is unique)
Isaac(same as k rool)

 

[JamesDNaux]

Wayforward has made an official pitch!

Second time the company has let it be known the want Shantae in Smash!

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-hero/posts/1187315?ref=backer_project_update

An artist I was following also threw out mention for Shantae.

I wouldn't bring this up if not for the fact that he's also apparently working on their new game.
I had no idea he was working for Wayforward, though it explains why he's been pretty much inactive for months.

Shantae is cool and I'd definitely love to play as her, but I still can't see indies getting in, they just lack star power.

I should try some of her games...

 

[Wintropy]

@SMXYes Pichu is a joke. An adorable joke that should not be taken lightly. The only reason people hate Pichu is that his gimmick was handled poorly. With a few adjustments, be could be top tier. And you know what? Mewtwo was bad in Melee, and now he is the most wanted (And now widley recived) character, and what did Pichu get? "Oh my gosh! why was he ever in smash?" And you say Snake doesn't deserve to be in Smash? Why cause he is third party? Yeah, the Ice Climbers have to wait. But does that stop the fans from being acrive? No!

Pichu is poorly regarded because its gimmick is a deliberate joke and the character is a last-minute clone that offers little to distinguish itself from Pikachu. The primary reason for its existence is "joke Pikachu". While Pichu could be made an interesting character, as it stands, that is not likely. Mewtwo is not comparable on any level.

This is coming from somebody who likes Pichu and thinks they'd be a decent DLC choice. Just being realistic here.

@ JaidynReiman I never said Banjo and Kazooie had high chances. I'm not even a supporter for crying out loud. My argument was that Nintendo, Namco, Capcom, and Sega are competitors because they are competing for sales on the games they make. (sighs) You know what? I'm just going to ignore any further comments saying that I'm an idiot. All I was doing was defending a character. One stupid character. (Jeez, this is turning into the Jumpman debate)

They're competing for sales, but not in the way that Ninty and Microsoft are. Ninty and Microsoft are competing for sales of consoles as well as games, which is a whole other dimension to be taken into account when considering interpersonal cooperation. That's why Jaidyn called you out and criticised your response. Your opinion is valid, but misinformed, he's just pointing out the factual errors in your statement.

 

[Kalimdori]

Although honestly, I'm not expecting Black Mage (or any other 3rd Party DLC) to be playable at all for this installment, given the recent bit of news that Nintendo will not consider 3rd party character requests in the Smash Ballots. I didn't even vote for him when I had the opportunity last night, because I was hoping for Wolf to be made playable next.

Oh for goodness sake, this bit misinformation is driving me nuts. It was never said that Nintendo wouldn't be considering 3rd party characters in the ballot.

 

[Spazzy_D]

An artist I was following also threw out mention for Shantae.

I wouldn't bring this up if not for the fact that he's also apparently working on their new game.
I had no idea he was working for Wayforward, though it explains why he's been pretty much inactive for months.

Shantae is cool and I'd definitely love to play as her, but I still can't see indies getting in, they just lack star power.

I should try some of her games...

Shantae is awesome, and if any indie got in (which is a bit of a long shot, I know) it should be her based on her move set potential, history with Nintendo (her original game was a Gameboy Color exclusive that came out in 2002 an everyone of her games has been on Nintendo hardware,) and awesome design.

You should definitely check some of her games out, they're all pretty fun.

 

[the101]

Hello! This is my first time commenting here, and you all seem like a lovely and reasonable group. I didn't come here to weigh in on the possibility of Banjo becoming a playable character through this Ballot, but I feel obliged to address this to be relevant.

Spoiler

Rare was an amazing supporter of Nintendo back in the day and produced some of the most amazing games and charming characters to graze the history of video games. One of which was the overhaul made to Nintendo's owned Donkey Kong character. Another was a foul-mouthed squirrel by the name of Conker. However, what Rare is best known for is their lovable bear Banjo and his backpack-residing companion Kazooie. There game was wonderful. The music was beautiful. And the characters were beloved. It was so rewarding as an experience, and it felt so Nintendo. Banjo-Kazooie deserved placement in one's Nintendo 64 collection along with first-party hits like Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time.

In knowing how wonderful Rare's bear is, I know for a fact that he will not be in a game published on a Nintendo system and I think one is being too optimistic that he could. It's more than the fact that he's a third party character, as evident by Sonic the Hedgehog and Pac-Man. It's more than that he primarily appears on other console (particularly Xbox systems), as evident by Solid Snake's inclusion in Brawl. Snake primarily appeared on PlayStation systems. None of these are reasons why Banjo won't appear in Smash Bros. He won't appear because he is owned by Microsoft, a rival company who produces their own consoles to specifically compete against Nintendo. This would be the equivalent of having Mario guest star in PlayStation All-Stars despite having nothing to do with Sony and also being from a rival console-making company. It just can't happen, but it has nothing to do with Banjo himself.

If you'd like to read my thoughts on Banjo-Kazooie, please check out the "spoiler" above.

Anyways, I'd like to share that I cast my vote for Impa from The Legend of Zelda series. I think she's a very cool and amazing woman in her appearances in Ocarina of Time, Skyward Sword, and Hyrule Warriors in particular. However, she's also very reoccurring, which I think is key. Zelda has many characters, but few of them are particularly reoccuring. However, to be honest, I'd be happy with any new Zelda rep., particularly Skull Kid, Tingle, or Midna.

I also learned that you can reenter the Fighter Ballot as much as your heart desires. While I don't know if the Ballot records your individual IP address to prevent you from voting multiple times, I cast more votes for other characters anyways. I cast votes for King K. Rool, Ice Climbers, Wolf O'Donnell, Captain Toad, Takamaru, and Solid Snake. Who did you vote for, or who do you think will win? Personally I feel like the most reasonable entries will be overwhelmed by the likes of King K. Rool and Ridley. My heart aches for Sakurai at the thought of seeing all those requests for Ridley after making it clear by himself that he doesn't find him proportioned well enough for battle, but who knows?

 

[Starphoenix]

So from the time I left to now, this image seems most apt:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm curious!

Please tell me ... How do you do Pichu a good character and retaining the gimmick?

I'm no expert, but I think this would help Pichu greatly, if not break him. This would also make Pichu more of a semi clone.
Crouching heals 3 damage every second
Neutral Attack has a larger range
Side tilt is Signal beam, and has a longer range
Up tilt has it’s up smash animation
It has more range
Down Tilt has larger range
Up Smash is Sweet Kiss having a larger range and dealing more damage
Neutral Arial has more range, and does slightly more damage
Forward Arial has more range
Back Arial has a larger range
It now has a recoil
Neutral Special is now Volt Switch: Pichu summons a ball of electricity (dealing 1 damage to himself) If the ball hits an opponent, the opponent switches places with Pichu. The switch deals 3 damage to Pichu.
Skull Bash no longer hurts Pichu
Up Special is now Return: Pichu moves in a direction surrounded by hearts. No recoil.

 

[Wintropy]

I also learned that you can reenter the Fighter Ballot as much as your heart desires. While I don't know if the Ballot records your individual IP address to prevent you from voting multiple times, I cast more votes for other characters anyways. I cast votes for King K. Rool, Ice Climbers, Wolf O'Donnell, Captain Toad, Takamaru, and Solid Snake. Who did you vote for, or who do you think will win? Personally I feel like the most reasonable entries will be overwhelmed by the likes of King K. Rool and Ridley. My heart aches for Sakurai at the thought of seeing all those requests for Ridley after making it clear by himself that he doesn't find him proportioned well enough for battle, but who knows?

I agree with @ Raijinken 's "whitelist" theory. To wit, Sakurai and co. more than likely have a basic outline of characters they think could work, and this ballot will help gauge which characters should take priority.

It's also good to know it'll be taken into account for future titles. It may bump up certain characters on the priority chain, which is always a good position to be in.

I'm no expert, but I think this would help Pichu greatly, if not break him. This would also make Pichu more of a semi clone.
Crouching heals 3 damage every second
Neutral Attack has a larger range
Side tilt is Signal beam, and has a longer range
Up tilt has it’s up smash animation
It has more range
Down Tilt has larger range
Up Smash is Sweet Kiss having a larger range and dealing more damage
Neutral Arial has more range, and does slightly more damage
Forward Arial has more range
Back Arial has a larger range
It now has a recoil
Neutral Special is now Volt Switch: Pichu summons a ball of electricity (dealing 1 damage to himself) If the ball hits an opponent, the opponent switches places with Pichu. The switch deals 3 damage to Pichu.
Skull Bash no longer hurts Pichu
Up Special is now Return: Pichu moves in a direction surrounded by hearts. No recoil.

No character should be able to heal itself by standing still. That's way too imbalanced, even with the self-harm mechanic remaining in Pichu's moveset.

 

[aldelaro5]

hum....I actually think I approach my problem wrongly.

Ok, well, to anyone who actually DO NOT WANT Paper Mario in, here;s your chance (do not answer if you're neutral, that doesn't count, only answr if you would INTENTIONALLY not want him):

What makes you think he shouldn't be in there if you could prove it?

So, if you want to answer because third mario, actually, tell me also why THAT alone is invalidating him, there has to be somethign that lead you to say that he simply won't add anything other than mario right?

waiting....

 

[Kenith]

By the way guys, for anyone casting a million votes in:
"Please limit your vote to one per person."

I mean, it's not like you have to, but I personally would.

 

[Raijinken]

hum....I actually think I approach my problem wrongly.

Ok, well, to anyone who actually DO NOT WANT Paper Mario in, here;s your chance (do not answer if you're neutral, that doesn't count, only answr if you would INTENTIONALLY not want him):

What makes you think he shouldn't be in there if you could prove it?

So, if you want to answer because third mario, actually, tell me also why THAT alone is invalidating him, there has to be somethign that lead you to say that he simply won't add anything other than mario right?

waiting....

The only reasons he shouldn't be in there are because we already have two of Mario, and seven directly in his franchise, and another few indirectly in his franchise. He's far past critical saturation when there are other characters and universes vastly more deserving of a spot.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Paper Mario in Smash. But I don't think he should be there before returning vets, or Isaac, a lot of other 3rd-parties (FF and Castlevania especially have been integral to Nintendo's history), or others.

 

[TumblrFamous]

My list of who I think are likely choices for dlc
Wolf(probably being worked on right now)
King k rool(seems to have a LOT of votes and is unique)
Isaac(same as k rool)

I agree. Those three seem to be the most likely.

On Tumblr (harhar, TumblrFamous on Tumblr), people seem to gravitate towards Waluigi, Daisy, and Shantae... odd, but whatevs. I do also notice an occasional King K. Rool which is good to hear.

 

[JaidynReiman]

By the way guys, for anyone casting a million votes in:
"Please limit your vote to one per person."

I mean, it's not like you have to, but I personally would.

I'd like to vote for a few different characters. I refused to vote for the same character multiple times, though. I think that's kinda cheap.


EDIT: That said, I'm sure Nintendo realizes that people will try and vote as many times as they can. And I'm sure they've got a system in place to limit multiple voting as much as possible.

 

[Kalimdori]

Spoiler

Rare was an amazing supporter of Nintendo back in the day and produced some of the most amazing games and charming characters to graze the history of video games. One of which was the overhaul made to Nintendo's owned Donkey Kong character. Another was a foul-mouthed squirrel by the name of Conker. However, what Rare is best known for is their lovable bear Banjo and his backpack-residing companion Kazooie. There game was wonderful. The music was beautiful. And the characters were beloved. It was so rewarding as an experience, and it felt so Nintendo. Banjo-Kazooie deserved placement in one's Nintendo 64 collection along with first-party hits like Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time.

In knowing how wonderful Rare's bear is, I know for a fact that he will not be in a game published on a Nintendo system and I think one is being too optimistic that he could. It's more than the fact that he's a third party character, as evident by Sonic the Hedgehog and Pac-Man. It's more than that he primarily appears on other console (particularly Xbox systems), as evident by Solid Snake's inclusion in Brawl. Snake primarily appeared on PlayStation systems. None of these are reasons why Banjo won't appear in Smash Bros. He won't appear because he is owned by Microsoft, a rival company who produces their own consoles to specifically compete against Nintendo. This would be the equivalent of having Mario guest star in PlayStation All-Stars despite having nothing to do with Sony and also being from a rival console-making company. It just can't happen, but it has nothing to do with Banjo himself.

"It can't happen because it can't happen."

Forgive me if I can't take that seriously.

 

[Kenith]

I'd like to vote for a few different characters. I refused to vote for the same character multiple times, though. I think that's kinda cheap.
EDIT: That said, I'm sure Nintendo realizes that people will try and vote as many times as they can. And I'm sure they've got a system in place to limit multiple voting as much as possible.

Well, I for one will just place my one vote and then spread the word.
If I get really restless, I'll throw in votes for King K. Rool, Excitebike, Inkling, and Ghirahim.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

@ Wintropy I know I said I wasn't good at this, I have to disagree. You know that healing custom thingy? In my experience, this does absolutely nothing, and it works no matter what you are doing. In Pichu's case, it would only be active when crouching. So you could really only do it if the opponent has been launched extremely close to the blast lines, or has been Koed, so you can really only heal about 6% or 12% depending on the situation. Damage that Pichu can easily rack up on himself. (although with my logic there is no reason for it in the first place, because it is pointless. I love how my arguments fold in on themselves.)

 

[aldelaro5]

The only reasons he shouldn't be in there are because we already have two of Mario, and seven directly in his franchise, and another few indirectly in his franchise. He's far past critical saturation when there are other characters and universes vastly more deserving of a spot.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Paper Mario in Smash. But I don't think he should be there before returning vets, or Isaac, a lot of other 3rd-parties (FF and Castlevania especially have been integral to Nintendo's history), or others.

ok, I;m getting somewhere so, if you don';t mind, I would be willing to go further ok?

Basically, if I get this correctly, the ONLY reaon he shouldn't be him is because of the PARENT series right? I say parent because, altought this is VERY debatable, he could be in his own series, but this should not matter....but by that logic, so is the parent series.

See, if we imagine in a world where you remove the series name, the character name and the parent series name.

Does it mean that it would then be more valid?

Remember, if we cut all of this, you still never chnaged the character so, we didn;t chnage on what character we talked about.....we only chnaged his "metadata" or the info that sort of defines him.

If we imagine he has its own series, even if I know how debatable it is, let's imagine this. This would mean that he would actually not make the repping "saturation" as you said right? However, we only chnaged the series name...not the character.

My point is that I think someone, or you in this case would have to explain me why the series changes something in the character. Also, when you said third party should go over him because they are MORE integral to nintendo's history.....there;s a bit of a problem here because we are still talking about a character that was around since the nintendo 64, and is from every console generation. In other words, being not relevant enough shouldn't be an issue, but to actually say he should not be in because other exists....is something I just wish to have a bit more precision.

I'm just trying to dig my issue, just answer iand it mgiht come

 

[BluePikmin11]

Goodness gracious, now Wayforward is going full force with this. :O

 

[A Distant Demon]

Leave for a day and everyone loses their minds.

As catch up

1. Ridley isnt happening. Expecting it is being foolish and ignoring obvious things. But vote anyway to show support. the japanese poll straight up says future games will take the poll into consideration.

2. I would love banjo so much. But microsoft is in direct competition with them. I see it as impossible. Snake at least is a veteran

3. Geno support came out of nowhere. I swear if people think he is a shoo in all of a sudden and start parading around his name when he still has 3rd party and relavancy problems ill go mad

4.hypocritically voted for ridley viridi and wonder red even though 2 have no chance and the last has very very little.

5. does a deconfirmed character (saki) have a reopened thread? Strange but oh well.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Personally i prefer the air as a quiet observer when college doesnt take my time, i find this character war quite fascinating, biased opinions everywhere/people fanboying trying to shoot down others, its hilarious, (and no matter how fancy your vocab is no one is really exempt from what i'm seeing.)

Wouldnt be surpised if sakurai knew what the ballot would cause, and he's just standing there... laughing.

OT: Banjo would be amazing, imo right up there with the cult classics like mega and sonic, I personally dont care but i will agree that he DOES deserve it, and if he does that hype would be amazing! (dont support the character but i find it cool how hype people get over character, i wanna relive the sanic hype again really lel)

Also cool that wayfoward is trying to get into this as well, still hope some indie is playable. (tho a longshot)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How is Saki deconfirmed?

 

[Starphoenix]

By the way guys, for anyone casting a million votes in:
"Please limit your vote to one per person."

I mean, it's not like you have to, but I personally would.

Like I said previously: it's not American Idol, just an opportunity to express why you think a character is a good idea.

At the end of the day, I have most of the roster I wanted with Lucas and Mewtwo added. Really, there aren't any characters I absolutely MUST have. Right now the only five characters I really support are Chorus Men, Bandana Dee, Captain Toad, Paper Mario and Isaac. They'd make me happier to see out of the remaining options left, but at this point they'd be sprinkles on an already decked out sundae. It's the stages I want more of, dangit!

 

[A Distant Demon]

How is Saki deconfirmed?

Assist trophy. Deconfirmed Just like dark samus. And ridley

obviously ridley is not comparable. Its sarcasm.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Um..... What did Wayforward do again? Didn't they make the Boy and his Blob remake? Or was that Papya? (I think it was both) Boy & Blob would be so awesome!

@ A Distant Demon Oh yeah! I'm an idiot.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

Man i really love the wayforward is trying to get shantae in this game.There really going all out really gonna be a shame if she doesn't get in.I'll atleast take a trophy for there efforts

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Like I said previously: it's not American Idol, just an opportunity to express why you think a character is a good idea.

At the end of the day, I have most of the roster I wanted with Lucas and Mewtwo added. Really, there aren't any characters I absolutely MUST have. Right now the only five characters I really support are Chorus Men, Bandana Dee, Captain Toad, Paper Mario and Isaac. They'd make me happier to see out of the remaining options left, but at this point they'd be sprinkles on an already decked out sundae. It's the stages I want more of, dangit!

It'd be hype if stages came with the character we voted for, or even a stage ballot, really wish FOD came back, that stage is really the best stage ever.

 

[Burruni]

hum....I actually think I approach my problem wrongly.

Ok, well, to anyone who actually DO NOT WANT Paper Mario in, here;s your chance (do not answer if you're neutral, that doesn't count, only answr if you would INTENTIONALLY not want him):

What makes you think he shouldn't be in there if you could prove it?

So, if you want to answer because third mario, actually, tell me also why THAT alone is invalidating him, there has to be somethign that lead you to say that he simply won't add anything other than mario right?

waiting....

See, here is my personal stance for not being a big supporter for Paper Mario. Let's remove the point of two Mario's present, and what people argue is already saturation of his various franchises and sub-franchises in the roster. Let's focus solely on Paper Mario himself.

1) The Partner Mechanic, which Paper Mario was oft credited for with really expanding out creativity and usefulness of sidekicks was last properly seen in a game now over a decade old. The Pixl's are little more than "field spells" and Kersti is basically Navi. God knows nobody wants that in a moveset. As Sm4sh has had a particular focus on the most recent, and even upcoming titles from the company... it is a little concerning how much this core region of the move pool would even be used.

2) Since Brawl, this fighter has received two titles. One of which completely abandoned the genre and became a core platformer with stats in it. Mario's only gained ability here is the ability to switch between 2D and 3D.... not something that gives much value other than a side-step. The second is a rather gimicky return to the core gameplay that was very vocally criticized and cut down by many fans. Some even saying that Sticker Star was the sign that Miyamoto may need to step down from commanding projects.

3) What HE brings that is special: compared to the core present in the game, what Paper Mario has to himself is the POSSIBILITY of Partners, a hammer, Ice Flower, special variants of jumping and swinging of a hammer that may translate to specials, and the gimmicky items of Sticker Star. Overall not really an appealing fighter when there's a 2D Fighter with hammers and a "wacky" versatility of weaponry under his non existent belt.

As much as I enjoyed the original 2 Paper Mario games, SPM and Sticker Star were each significant let downs in their own way (a point to which many agree) and Paper Mario as a character/series is not a region shining bright enough to desire a fighter.

When we look at the current big drives for supports, we have either 3rd Parties that someone majorly tied to them has said they want in Smash, King K. Rool (And Ridley) who is a long standing and ever-popular Nintendo Villain whom have always been on the scene of heated discussion, Isaac who is talked about namely due to his removal as an Assist Trophy and comparisons to another present Magiknight , Inklings who represent a very hyped upcoming new IP, and then "helper" characters that are RECENT and SIGNIFICANT parts of their home series in very sucessful games (Dixie, Captain Toad, Bandanna Dee). Other than that... Chorus Men are still strown about because of lingering bits of Gematsu and that found leftover data of a Rhythm Heaven Icon.

Paper Mario, to me, isn't on the same calibur as them. Not now, anyway. If we got a BIG Paper Mario RPG that was a "blockbuster" on the WiiU, I'd be saying a different message.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Um..... What did Wayforward do again? Didn't they make the Boy and his Blob remake? Or was that Papya? (I think it was both) Boy & Blob would be so awesome!

@ A Distant Demon Oh yeah! I'm an idiot.

Wayforward are also responsible for Shantae. In addition, Shovel Knight was made by former Wayforward developers.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yacht_Club_Games

Well, ok, the founder of Yacht Club Games was a former Wayforward producer.

It'd be hype if stages came with the character we voted for, or even a stage ballot, really wish FOD came back, that stage is really the best stage ever.

Mewtwo won't for sure, but it would be cool if future characters came with stages. A Mother 3 stage with Lucas and Flying Kroc (or Gangplank Galleon) with K. Rool, Venus Lighthouse with Isaac...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

@ JaidynReiman Ah, I was right about Wayforward's connection with Boy & Blob though. But judging by the case, it seems Majesco was more involved in this. So to avoid butting heads with Shantae supporters, I'm just gonna say Boy & Blob belong to Majesco. On second thought, that's like saying I'm going to say that Clover still owns the rights to Amaterasu so I don't anger Mega Man fans. And that's assuming that the creators of A Boy and his Blob don't have the rights to the game. I'm just gonna say I want the character, but it won't be likely, just like I do with Amaterasu.

 

[Kalimdori]

I'm curious, how many other companies have shown interest in getting their characters in through the Smash poll? I know about Shovel Knight, Shantae, Snake, Rayman, and Banjo, am I missing any?

 

[RoseyBetch]

I really support are Chorus Men, Bandana Dee, Captain Toad, Paper Mario and Isaac. They'd make me happier to see out of the remaining options left, but at this point they'd be sprinkles on an already decked out sundae. It's the stages I want more of, dangit!

Bruh, you'd best add King K. Rool.

 

[Raijinken]

ok, I;m getting somewhere so, if you don';t mind, I would be willing to go further ok?

Basically, if I get this correctly, the ONLY reaon he shouldn't be him is because of the PARENT series right? I say parent because, altought this is VERY debatable, he could be in his own series, but this should not matter....but by that logic, so is the parent series.

See, if we imagine in a world where you remove the series name, the character name and the parent series name.

Does it mean that it would then be more valid?

Remember, if we cut all of this, you still never chnaged the character so, we didn;t chnage on what character we talked about.....we only chnaged his "metadata" or the info that sort of defines him.

If we imagine he has its own series, even if I know how debatable it is, let's imagine this. This would mean that he would actually not make the repping "saturation" as you said right? However, we only chnaged the series name...not the character.

My point is that I think someone, or you in this case would have to explain me why the series changes something in the character. Also, when you said third party should go over him because they are MORE integral to nintendo's history.....there;s a bit of a problem here because we are still talking about a character that was around since the nintendo 64, and is from every console generation. In other words, being not relevant enough shouldn't be an issue, but to actually say he should not be in because other exists....is something I just wish to have a bit more precision.

I'm just trying to dig my issue, just answer iand it mgiht come

He's still Mario, just like Dr Mario is Mario, and Toon Link is Link, and Zero Suit Samus is Samus (Disregard different iterations of "Link").

Again, I'm fully in support of him. But given a choice between Paper Mario and any other game character I like who is not from the Mario series or Pokemon series, I would vote for them over Paper Mario for diversity.

 

[N3ON]

Wow, WayForward is going all out, hey? Personally I'd be fine with Shantae in Smash, she'd fit great, but I'm not going to pretend she's even close to the top of my most-wanted list.

This might incense some purists, but I'd be fine with Shantae, Shovel Knight, Rayman, and Banjo. Oh, and Snake too.

Though not at the expense of Isaac or Wolf or Inkling or a DK character.

Except Banjo. Banjo > anyone else.

Banjo <3

 

[Burruni]

I'm curious, how many other companies have shown interest in getting their characters in through the Smash poll? I know about Shovel Knight, Shantae, Snake, Rayman, and Banjo, am I missing any?

Wait wait can we get a source about Ubisoft? YachtGames, WayForward, Kojima, and Phil Spencer were all pretty well known but all I knew for Rayman was the accidental mis-speaking of the Nintendo of Canada person, his trophy being in the game, and the ArtsyOomi or whatever his name was doing the fake CSS thing

 

[aldelaro5]

See, here is my personal stance for not being a big supporter for Paper Mario. Let's remove the point of two Mario's present, and what people argue is already saturation of his various franchises and sub-franchises in the roster. Let's focus solely on Paper Mario himself.

1) The Partner Mechanic, which Paper Mario was oft credited for with really expanding out creativity and usefulness of sidekicks was last properly seen in a game now over a decade old. The Pixl's are little more than "field spells" and Kersti is basically Navi. God knows nobody wants that in a moveset. As Sm4sh has had a particular focus on the most recent, and even upcoming titles from the company... it is a little concerning how much this core region of the move pool would even be used.

2) Since Brawl, this fighter has received two titles. One of which completely abandoned the genre and became a core platformer with stats in it. Mario's only gained ability here is the ability to switch between 2D and 3D.... not something that gives much value other than a side-step. The second is a rather gimicky return to the core gameplay that was very vocally criticized and cut down by many fans. Some even saying that Sticker Star was the sign that Miyamoto may need to step down from commanding projects.

3) What HE brings that is special: compared to the core present in the game, what Paper Mario has to himself is the POSSIBILITY of Partners, a hammer, Ice Flower, special variants of jumping and swinging of a hammer that may translate to specials, and the gimmicky items of Sticker Star. Overall not really an appealing fighter when there's a 2D Fighter with hammers and a "wacky" versatility of weaponry under his non existent belt.

As much as I enjoyed the original 2 Paper Mario games, SPM and Sticker Star were each significant let downs in their own way (a point to which many agree) and Paper Mario as a character/series is not a region shining bright enough to desire a fighter.

When we look at the current big drives for supports, we have either 3rd Parties that someone majorly tied to them has said they want in Smash, King K. Rool (And Ridley) who is a long standing and ever-popular Nintendo Villain whom have always been on the scene of heated discussion, Isaac who is talked about namely due to his removal as an Assist Trophy and comparisons to another present Magiknight , Inklings who represent a very hyped upcoming new IP, and then "helper" characters that are RECENT and SIGNIFICANT parts of their home series in very sucessful games (Dixie, Captain Toad, Bandanna Dee). Other than that... Chorus Men are still strown about because of lingering bits of Gematsu and that found leftover data of a Rhythm Heaven Icon.

Paper Mario, to me, isn't on the same calibur as them. Not now, anyway. If we got a BIG Paper Mario RPG that was a "blockbuster" on the WiiU, I'd be saying a different message.

...I actually don;t think I hit the spot so...I will have to continue on that one as well....

1) .....please, just explain how it just matters. I really am very confused because if I look at this, it would mean that:

• recency makes him not much relevant WHILE the game you're talking about had a stage and music section.
• I think you should drop the "nobody wants that" because I think you generalised it.....also, I;'m trying to get the validity of the comparison to this.....are you trying to compare him to link in zelda? yes, I'm that confused....
• I think you generalised when you meant offf credited.....please, just get that if you want to claim this, you would know something I don't or overlooked and I'm confused to what it is....

2) i won';t go over it, but spm is basically heavily inspired from TTYD. You would be surprised how much TTYD stuff was int he game and how much the first 2 games actually influenced spm. Sticker star however, that is just not like the first 3....that was even planned to have it a remake or something of something like the first 2 games. IS wanted it, but die to club nintendo questioning stuff and communications issues, it was refused by Myamoto. Also, please, again, I';m very confused to how it matters. In fact, if you look at how nintendo talked about the series (they did twice), they talk less about sticker star and again, it';s not because one game being the second oldest having a lot of stuff would invalidate him.....if it would have been the case, several characters would have never been there.....look, I';m just very confused.

3) this is clearly generalising. Basically, you woudl say that G&W = Paper Mario while in reality, I don';t see why. G&W is animated frame by frame due to its console era while Paper Mario is very fluid because he's jsut meant to represent the swiftness of a paper. Also, when I say versatility about Paper Mario, it's not comparable to G&W because honestly (and that's from someonw who actually main him), he isn't much versatile like you say. When I meant about Paper Mario is the fact that, you do HAVE THE POSSIBILITY, but you can;t use everything at the same time. Say for example you would have a partner switch mechanic that would just chnage one or some of your specials. The move changes, the way you would use it changes, but you need to do more maintenance to actually have that possibility. G&W has fixed moves so, if you would have wanted to use one, you would have to use it when you have the chance, not when you wish to. I'm sorry, but I really don;t get why it would also make him not appealing....

and your last point is actualy the one that confuses me the most. IF you meant that right, it would NIOT WORTH to have him in the roster UNTIL A BACK TO ROOT GAME IS ANNOUNCED.....how the heck does it matter?

look, if I take this in perspective, that would mean that the ONLY reason lucas got in is because veteran while the series is currently dead now.....I jsut don't get that it would be the truth because I think there;s more reaosns to want lucas. Also, saying chorus man makes him worse because of a leak is like saying that because he has mroe chance, we should consider him less.....I';m very confused.

I'm more willing to answer to @ Raijinken because what he told me is actually something I hear a lot more than what you said.....a lot more.

He's still Mario, just like Dr Mario is Mario, and Toon Link is Link, and Zero Suit Samus is Samus (Disregard different iterations of "Link").

Again, I'm fully in support of him. But given a choice between Paper Mario and any other game character I like who is not from the Mario series or Pokemon series, I would vote for them over Paper Mario for diversity.

I asked you some question and you didn't answer. You simply restated what I already got.

Let me ask you again:

if you just take the character and remove its metadata (meaning name, series and parent series), would that ALONE make him valid?

Because what it means is that THE ONLY reaosn you don;t want him is not even because of the character, but because of his series.

While isn't the roster about the characters?

There;s a reaosn why I ask you these question, but I want to have the answers....

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

He's still Mario, just like Dr Mario is Mario, and Toon Link is Link, and Zero Suit Samus is Samus (Disregard different iterations of "Link").

Again, I'm fully in support of him. But given a choice between Paper Mario and any other game character I like who is not from the Mario series or Pokemon series, I would vote for them over Paper Mario for diversity.

Actually, some people say Link is still Link (The main argument against Young, and Wolf Link.) even though it is Gannon cannon that they are not. The only reason why people dislike that the Samus is in the game twice with two different playstyles is only because they want the Metroid series to be expanded upon. (With Samus a third time. Logic.) The only reason to be against such characters is if you have the same character as a clone many times. Thus, Paper Mario is valid.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Dixie Kong Is the only girl that fights with her hair that I want playable.

 

[Kalimdori]

Wait wait can we get a source about Ubisoft? YachtGames, WayForward, Kojima, and Phil Spencer were all pretty well known but all I knew for Rayman was the accidental mis-speaking of the Nintendo of Canada person, his trophy being in the game, and the ArtsyOomi or whatever his name was doing the fake CSS thing

https://twitter.com/RaymanGame
Official Rayman Twitter has been re tweeting support messages for Rayman in Smash, as well as the official polls announcement. I know there was a tweet from Ubisoft that said they would love to have Rayman join the battle in Smash Bros, but that was from a while ago, might take me a while to find.

EDIT: Found it!
https://twitter.com/Ubisoft/status/568006925679509504

 

[JaidynReiman]

Dixie Kong Is the only girl that fights with her hair that I want playable.

Pretty much this. If Shantae got in, that'd spell doom for Dixie for sure. Same with Bayonetta. I still say the odds are quite slim of it happening, but Shantae is looking like a candidate I'll actually consider a valid option who could get a decent amount of votes, bringing it up to 3: Snake (who probably won't happen), Rayman (iffy), and Shantae.


The thing to keep in mind is that in every case, even Snake, the character's owners are fine with them being in Smash (apparently). The problem is clearly Nintendo. Because Nintendo denied Snake once, I don't see why they wouldn't do it again. I think they'd be more willing to go for a suggestion that has been seriously supported on Nintendo platforms in the past.

Granted, this might be an opportunity for either Simon Belmot or Bomberman if they can get enough votes. For the first time in for ever, I actually think we might be able to get a Konami character other than Snake.