Character Discussion Thread

[Ffamran]

Dr. Mario needs to function differently than Mario. I'm also sure Lucina and Dark Pit will get new animations.

Mario and Dr. Mario could share a slot, but that wouldn't work on the 3DS - the woes of small screens - and switching via costume selection would be tedious to some and annoy others that the Dr. should have gotten his own slot. On the Wii U, Dr. Mario & Mario and Pit & Pittoo sharing character slots is possible, but I don't know how people would feel. This wouldn't be like picking which Pokémon Red would throw out first or whether Zelda or Sheik starts.

 

[ElPanandero]

Y'know, seeing how hostile and chaotic the forum is here, I wonder what the Melee and Brawl days were like. Was there any massive leak that spoiled everything and made half of the community go rabid? It's fascinating.

People freaked out over brawl's roster, mostly because ROB's a goon, still no Ridley, Mewto cut, etc.

The commnity was a lot smaller and more niche at the time of melee, but there was a CCS leak that people refused to believe because of the spacing, and people were not big on the clones (mostly Young Link because "who needs two links?, Doc because its still Mario, and Pichu because well pichu is lame) but they got over melee probs real quick and turned it into one of the most played competetive games out there, and I feel like they would have gotten over Brawl's roster had it been a better game (ala melee)

 

[NeonBurrito]

Name me some fitting content from DKC that Sakurai can add in Smash Bros while also overlapping the amount of KI content has.

I can see where Diddy is coming from with the lack of DK content so far in this game. From what I've gathered up, Kid Icarus has:
3 Characters
2 Stages
16 Smash Run ememies
2 Assist Trophies
6 Items
4 Trophies (7 for the 2 Pits and Palutena)

Compared to DK which has:
2 Characters
1 Stage
2 Smash
No Assist Trophies
2 Items (3 If you want to count the Peanuts from Diddy's Popgun)
2 Trophies (4 for the Kongs)
If I'm missing more feel fee to let me know.

Let's do this. If you think the Tropical Freeze is too recent, you can easily replace it with lots of older stuff from the the first 4 DKC games + DK64.

Character(s):

Choose one or the other. If DK > Kid Icarus, choose both.

Stages:

From Donkey Kong Country: Returns - Sunset Shore

From Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze - Windmill Hills

Smash Run Enemies:

Zingers + Buzzes, Mini-Neckys + Neckys, Tiki Torches, Rawks / Awks, Frogoon, Tucks, Archies, Hootzes, Waldoughs, Fluffs, Buckbots, Mole Guards, Klaptraps, just to name a few from all 5 DKC games.

Assist Trophies:

Spoiler: The DK Crew + Cranky

Items:

Animal buddies!

It's not too hard to find this much stuff to represent Donkey Kong. It's just Sakurai choice if he wants to give Donkey Kong some love or not.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I would down a bottle of Dr. Mario approved pills and tear my Sakurai poster off of the wall. But seriously, I would be mildly disturbed as Dr. Mario was one of my more frequently played characters whereas Mario was not used at all. I do not like Mario's character in the slightest; however, Dr. Mario makes everything okay. I suppose my hipster pride enables me to enjoy his character over Mario's. F.L.U.D.D attenuated my enthusiasm for Mario and the pills were my favorite projectiles in Smash, I say this as a Link main, mind you.

I would probably not even use the costume as it would not feel like Dr. Mario to me.

It does seem that the main reason why people are in favor of Dr. Mario being a different character is if the F.L.U.D.D was gone. I never liked it, because it never had that much use to me, only if it gets a buff is when I will try to main Mario again.

 

[~Krystal~]

Brawl speculation was ridiculous lol. Everyone had their expectations way too high, making 50+ character roster predictions and what not, people set themselves up for disappointment. This time around, people accepted that we will never get 25 newcomers in one game.

I do admit that expectations were at times unrealistic, but all we wanted was Krystal and Geno. Was that too much to ask?

 

[Morbi]

I do admit that expectations were at times unrealistic, but all we wanted was Krystal and Geno. Was that too much to ask?

In the case of Geno, yes. That was WAY too much to ask.

 

[Gre ninja'd]

Do you know what people told me about Toon Link? Rosalina? Solo-Charizard? Phantom Zelda? Robin? Lucina? Dark Pit/Dr. Mario? They all said the same thing, albeit they were not as kind. They thought that those characters (or in the case of Phantom, attack) were impossible for no reason whatsoever, they blatantly disregarded our good friend, logic, in favor of their preconceived notions on what the roster was apparently shaping up to be.

Wolf might not "look" like he is coming back because he was not showcased on our precious leak. However, no one can counter his inclusion with a rational reason. Wolf was a popular veteran who is prominently featured within his own series. He is not going anywhere.

It's not just the leak to me, it's the fact we don't have any other star fox character officially announced that worries me, and falco is more popular than wolf, so it makes me believe that wolf will be cut, the leak only made that belief stronger. I'm going to church so I'll pray for Lucas wolf snake and ice climbers ;_;

 

[Ffamran]

I do admit that expectations were at times unrealistic, but all we wanted was Krystal and Geno. Was that too much to ask?

I remember an IGN article - I'm pretty sure it was IGN - talking about wanted characters. It might have been fan-input, but there was stuff like Cloud Strife, Sora, Riku, and maybe even Master Chief.

Nowadays, nobody mentions third-party characters of that nature. Stuff like Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Amy, Snake, and Megaman are okay, but saying you want Scorpion from Mortal Kombat might make everyone laugh at you.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oh sorry, I didn't choose the correct words, what I'm trying to say is that Lucas didn't deserve to get over Dr.Mario in the first place, Toon Zelda, Dixie and the rest of the forbidden 7 deserved the spot more...except Roy

Mewtwo and Dixie are a must still I feel. They made Lucina Roy's spiritual succesor, and I hope they do the same with Toon Sheik and Impa. They brought back Dr.Mario, so Mewtwo should be back to.

 

[Masonomace]

It does seem that the main reason why people are in favor of Dr. Mario being a different character is if the F.L.U.D.D was gone. I never liked it, because it never had that much use to me, only if it gets a buff is when I will try to main Mario again.

I mainly wanted Dr. Mario back out of the forbidden 7. . .frankly because:

1. He was a solid clone character
2. For that reason, Dr. Mario was actually good, arguably better than Mario in game-play terms.
3. Pills son. Get well soon son.
4. That white sheet was so got dayum hotness
5. First time in Smash history that a lingering aerial like N-air doing more damage / knockback than the initial first hit.
6. Did I mention Dr. Mario was viable in tournaments & not Pichu Roy & Mewtwo, but Ganondorf & especially Falco did just fine?

 

[Weeman]

I do admit that expectations were at times unrealistic, but all we wanted was Krystal and Geno. Was that too much to ask?

Not as much as Shrek and Captain Rainbow

 

[The Light Music Club]

Even if they do get new animations, it'll only be a number of them. They'll still share a majority of the animations with their source character. Hell out of everything we've see of Lucina, only the taunt and side step animation was unique.

Wolf and Lucas on the other hand have to be made from scratch. Lucas only shares the FSmash animation with Ness.

You wouldn't have to make them from scratch, you could always make them less original then what they were in Brawl. I'd prefer to have Wolf more like Fox, over getting another Mario and Pits clone with no Wolf at all.

And since Dr. Mario is so easy to make, how come Lucas and Wolf made it in before him in Brawl?

 

[Oracle_Summon]

It's not too hard to find this much stuff to represent Donkey Kong. It's just Sakurai choice if he wants to give Donkey Kong some love or not.

Exactly. And Sakurai is known for having a bias. Anyone remember this on the Super Smash Bros Dojo website?:

"
My song choices for this game were made very carefully after surveying song popularity, using opinions submitted to the Smash Bros. web site and listening to the songs themselves.

But there are also some songs I added based entirely on my own whims. This one song is from a Japan-only Game Boy game called X. If a song is good, that’s enough for me.

Of course, there is no X stage in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but this time, the songs in Smash Bros. aren’t limited only to those series represented by characters and stages. We’ve pulled some that are from completely unrelated games.

Can you expect to hear this song or that song? You’ll just have to wait and see."

http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/music/music16.html

Even though the game is Nintendo owned, in the end, what Sakurai wants to add will make it in, because those things get priority.

Edit: Even if we did not get the song in the final product, the fact is that Sakurai's bias effects what he pays most attention to when making decisions.

 

[Masonomace]

Not as much as Shrek and Captain Rainbow

Who says we can't have a Captain Falcon-esque character with some Ness' inspiration Yo-yo action? We're just getting warmed up

 

[ultimatekoopa]

I hope Dr. Mario doesn't share the final smash with Mario

 

[The Light Music Club]

Exactly. And Sakurai is known for having a bias. Anyone remember this on the Super Smash Bros Dojo website?:

"
My song choices for this game were made very carefully after surveying song popularity, using opinions submitted to the Smash Bros. web site and listening to the songs themselves.

But there are also some songs I added based entirely on my own whims. This one song is from a Japan-only Game Boy game called X. If a song is good, that’s enough for me.

Of course, there is no X stage in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but this time, the songs in Smash Bros. aren’t limited only to those series represented by characters and stages. We’ve pulled some that are from completely unrelated games.

Can you expect to hear this song or that song? You’ll just have to wait and see."

http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/music/music16.html

Even though the game is Nintendo owned, in the end, what Sakurai wants to add will make it in, because those things get priority.

Edit: Even if we did not get the song in the final product, the fact is that Sakurai's bias effects what he pays most attention to when making decisions.

I take that as a promise for Idolm@ster Music on Pac Mans stage.

I was fine with Sakurai bias, in till this leak happened.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I mainly wanted Dr. Mario back out of the forbidden 7. . .frankly because:

1. He was a solid clone character
2. For that reason, Dr. Mario was actually good, arguably better than Mario in game-play terms.
3. Pills son. Get well soon son.
4. That white sheet was so got dayum hotness
5. First time in Smash history that a lingering aerial like N-air doing more damage / knockback than the initial first hit.
6. Did I mention Dr. Mario was viable in tournaments & not Pichu Roy & Mewtwo, but Ganondorf & especially Falco did just fine?

Well Dr. Mario's main support now comes from being Mario from Melee's glory days.

Though, I think the whole solid clone character talk mainly associates to either Tournament Play or Tier List, correct?

 

[Ffamran]

I hope Dr. Mario doesn't share the final smash with Mario

He'll send out a spiral of pills. Man, everyone's going to OD on that. Great... More fuel for controversy.

 

[Morbi]

You wouldn't have to make them from scratch, you could always make them less original then what they were in Brawl. I'd prefer to have Wolf more like Fox, over getting another Mario and Pits clone with no Wolf at all.

And since Dr. Mario is so easy to make, how come Lucas and Wolf made it in before him in Brawl?

I agree, I would not mind Wolf as a Fox clone if it meant having him in the game; actually, to be utterly honest, I would prefer it.

 

[Masonomace]

I hope Dr. Mario doesn't share the final smash with Mario

I actually don't know what Dr. Mario's FS could or would be. Snap. . . .Idk It must involve a OD joke on something.
EDIT: @ Ffamran 's Snivy 'd me. What a twist.

Well Dr. Mario's main support now comes from being Mario from Melee's glory days.

Though, I think the whole solid clone character talk mainly associates to either Tournament Play or Tier List, correct?

To what it boils down to mostly, perhaps. I was not in that association with Mario's series back then. I was a "hack n slash" player.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

He'll send out a spiral of pills. Man, everyone's going to OD on that. Great... More fuel for controversy.

That is the problem though. To what extent is Sakurai going to differentiate characters? Will he just make Dr. Mario act a little different from Mario and call it a day like he does with Toon Link?

I believe, since Toon Link and Link share the same Final Smash, that Dr. Mario and Mario will share the same one.

It just seems to be the least labor inducing decision that Sakurai would take.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The community was actually more united when the Brawl leak came out, because practically everyone agreed the roster blew. This leak is a little more polarizing. It appeals to a good amount of people, yet disappoints a lot of others as well.


I was only kidding. Truthfully, I agree with you.

In hindsight, how the heck did the roster for Brawl blow?! It was easily a great roster.

 

[Ffamran]

That is the problem though. To what extent is Sakurai going to differentiate characters? Will he just make Dr. Mario act a little different from Mario and call it a day like he does with Toon Link?

I believe, since Toon Link and Link share the same Final Smash, that Dr. Mario and Mario will share the same one.

It just seems to be the least labor inducing decision that Sakurai would take.

Well, Dr. Mario's (and Dr. Luigi's) games were a bit like Tetris. So, couldn't the Dr.'s Final Smash just be his game falling downward and hitting everyone? Or a giant pill from the sky murdering everyone. Actually, that'd be an easy Final Smash to make. Just scale a pill and turn it into a meteor.

 

[~Krystal~]

In hindsight, how the heck did the roster for Brawl blow?

Rosters are opinionated things. It's all a matter of perception. The prominent one was that it sucked. Maybe you should ask all the members from that time why they thought the way they did.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I hope Dr. Mario doesn't share the final smash with Mario

I predict that the Final Smash and Down B will be the only unique moves Dr.Mario will have from Mario. If you don't count the Pills.

I also hope Dr.Mario will be bottom tier, and worse than Mario so that people will finally stop justifying Dr.Mario's inclusion because of those reasons.

 

[Weeman]

HAWLUCHA CONFIRMED!!!!!

Spoiler

 

[Ffamran]

In hindsight, how the heck did the roster for Brawl blow?! It was easily a great roster.

All rosters blow 'cause Ridley, Meta Ridley, baby Ridley, and NES, chubby Ridley aren't in.

 

[Morbi]

I predict that the Final Smash and Down B will be the only unique moves Dr.Mario will have from Mario. If you don't count the Pills.

I also hope Dr.Mario will be bottom tier, and worse than Mario so that people will finally stop justifying Dr.Mario's inclusion because of those reasons.

People justify a character's inclusion based on their tier? I have no seen that as of yet.

 

[~Krystal~]

All rosters blow 'cause Ridley, Meta Ridley, baby Ridley, and NES, chubby Ridley aren't in.

You forgot Pink Gold Meta Ridley.

 

[Spinosaurus]

You wouldn't have to make them from scratch, you could always make them less original then what they were in Brawl. I'd prefer to have Wolf more like Fox, over getting another Mario and Pits clone with no Wolf at all.

But then this'll even be MORE problematic because everyone will complain that they downgraded Wolf's moveset.

And since Dr. Mario is so easy to make, how come Lucas and Wolf made it in before him in Brawl?

Because the situation is totally the same right now as it was in Brawl

what kind of argument is that holy ****

 

[Masonomace]

HAWLUCHA CONFIRMED!!!!!

Spoiler

View attachment 23680

Shulk learned Flying Press? THAT IS ABSURD

All rosters blow 'cause Ridley, Meta Ridley, baby Ridley, and NES, chubby Ridley aren't in.

You also forgot Mewtwo. You know how many people STILL Hate on Lucario for any said reasons?....

 

[Weeman]

People justify a character's inclusion based on their tier? I have no seen that as of yet.

I did

 

[Diddy Kong]

People justify a character's inclusion based on their tier? I have no seen that as of yet.

'Well at least Dr.Mario was better than Mario.'

'Dr.Mario's pills >> fireballs'

'I never liked the F.L.U.D.D. anyway.'

'Dr.Mario at least was competitive viable, Mewtwo wasn't.'

I see too many posts like these. And those reasons are all full of ****.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

In hindsight, how the heck did the roster for Brawl blow?! It was easily a great roster.

It was viewed as horrible, because of all the characters that could have made it in the game.

1. A character that people claimed was barely known about: .
2. not using a sword to have a different moveset from .
3. People who believed Super Smash Brothers went down hill because it wasn't about Nintendo's All Stars anymore since and got in.
4. The delays of the game, and the inclusion of delaying the game.
5. was cut from the game.
   
6. Highly requested characters such as Little Mac, King K. Rool and Ridley did not make it in the game in playable roles.
7. was claimed to have taken another Zelda newcomer's "potential spot". Reaction, why did we get another Link clone instead of [insert Zelda character here].
   
8. forced players to switch between the two characters when using Final Smashes.

Well, Dr. Mario's (and Dr. Luigi's) games were a bit like Tetris. So, couldn't the Dr.'s Final Smash just be his game falling downward and hitting everyone? Or a giant pill from the sky murdering everyone. Actually, that'd be an easy Final Smash to make. Just scale a pill and turn it into a meteor.

The thing is, if Sakurai gave , , and the same Final Smash, then would he give Dr. Mario a different one? Would he find it necessary?

 

[Ffamran]

People justify a character's inclusion based on their tier? I have no seen that as of yet.

There's Pichu. Granted, I just checked a wiki and Kirby's dead last in Melee. Going that route, Ganondorf, Kirby, Zelda, Samus, Link, Captain Falcon, Bowser, and a bunch of other characters should have been kicked off long ago.

 

[Morbi]

'Well at least Dr.Mario was better than Mario.'

'Dr.Mario's pills >> fireballs'

'I never liked the F.L.U.D.D. anyway.'

'Dr.Mario at least was competitive viable, Mewtwo wasn't.'

I see too many posts like these. And those reasons are all full of ****.

F.L.U.D.D and his pills are not relevant to his tier though (I suppose that is inherently true), those are move-set based arguments. Albeit the first and last reasons are suspect.

 

[Weeman]

'Well at least Dr.Mario was better than Mario.'

'Dr.Mario's pills >> fireballs'

'I never liked the F.L.U.D.D. anyway.'

'Dr.Mario at least was competitive viable, Mewtwo wasn't.'

I see too many posts like these. And those reasons are all full of ****.

So Basically:
"Peole had more fun using the Doc?, that obviously is a sin, becuase fun doesn't mean anything, only REPS, IMPA 4 SMASH"

 

[Masonomace]

'Well at least Dr.Mario was better than Mario.'

'Dr.Mario's pills >> fireballs'

'I never liked the F.L.U.D.D. anyway.'

'Dr.Mario at least was competitive viable, Mewtwo wasn't.'

I see too many posts like these. And those reasons are all full of ****.

Despite my earlier post listing off most of this because, well, it's all true for the most part(?), F.L.U.D.D was actually good utility imho. People would be mindful of it if they always kept a FC water spray on handy if it was a bit better, LIKE THIS WATER GUN USER
EDIT: Eh Cape was better than FLUDD anyways. I still used it, but I'm in the minority on that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

F.L.U.D.D and his pills are not relevant to his tier though (I suppose that is inherently true), those are move-set based arguments. Albeit the first and last reasons are suspect.

Let me just point it down to this: People justify Dr.Mario's inclusion over Mewtwo's due to their Melee viability. Amongst other bull**** reasonings.

 

[Weeman]

Let me just point it down to this: People justify Dr.Mario's inclusion over Mewtwo's due to their Melee viability. Amongst other bull**** reasonings.

People justify him because they like playing as him, but of course then everyone is all like "THEZE CHARACTERZ ARE MORE DEZERVING THIS IS BULL****!" and make it seem like the roster is some sort of elitist member club with serious discrimination issues , wich is especially ridiculous because everyone has their own vision of an "ideal roster".
I could state many reasons of why i think having Impa over Ganon would be bull****, but it would lead to nothing but pointless subjective arguments, wich is what you're pretty much doing here with the Doc fans.