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Character Discussion Thread

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Oracle_Summon

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No, it does not make sense to add a costume and give the costume different attributes. Hence the reason he is a character.

See the article posted above for why Sakurai feels this way. :troll:
In relation to the statement that Sakurai said, then yes it does make sense in that attribute.
 

Weeman

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I would argue that Mewtwo has a little bit of merit. Just the tiniest bit of merit icing. :mewtwopm:
You wouldn't say that if his tail was green :c

I think Dr. Mario was a good choice for a clone character, not only as an homage to Melee but also to (hopefully) allow players to play as Mario with his old Down-B. Basically he's cool because he's a veteran, and is really the only cut clone character from Melee who has any merit to return since Young Link and Roy have basically been replaced and Pichu just kind of stinks. I think it's a bit silly judging clones off of the same criterias as unique characters, aka series importance and game success, since they really are just rushed characters, there's not much thought put into their inclusions, they're just icing on the cake.
Well, i think the Mario tornado was only good in the original Smash, hopefully the Doc brings that move back to it's former glory.
 

Morbi

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In relation to the statement that Sakurai said, then yes it does make sense in that attribute.
I have no idea what that means, but when dealing with characters, Sakurai does not just think about the move-set. He thinks about the subtle details, such as battle-records. If someone plays as Dr. Mario, the records should reflect that. I doubt he wants it to be like Project M where you play as Mewtwo or Roy but your battle record is influenced through Lucario or Marth instead. There is also the question of F.L.U.D.D that does not make it as simple as, "lets re-skin the pill and call it a day!"
 

Staarih

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Indeed, one of the only reasons for me to be excited for Dr. Mario's inclusion is his Down + B tornado! And I guess the Melee-nostalgia too.
 
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ElPanandero

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That's a good point, & I do see why Nintendo would get mad, yet Mewtwo isn't in Brawl's roster so his inclusion in a mod feels justified for the fans pleased. If players who play Brawl's mod Project M love it for Mewtwo & Roy, & if they happen to notice Mewtwo announced in Sm4sh & Sm5sh rosters, the players would wonder "Is Sm4sh / Sm5sh Mewtwo worth buying the game for me?" Most mewtwo fans would buy the game no matter how good or bad the character will be. The hardcore mewtwo fans that are competitive (this is a specific crowd) may find the game not worthy of purchasing & continue to return to playing Project M Mewtwo.:ohwell:
Oh yea definetly, I know there's a potential problem with it, which is why I'm actually not sure what they'll do. I know they're staying away from smash 4 characters, or potential characters, with the clone engine project, so it's obviously a concern. Project M Mewtwo is so sweet doe when played competetively. I imagine the hardcore Mewtwo players will move on to smash 4 if the game feels good (the problem with the melee to brawl transition is that brawl was garbage) and M2K has even said that he plans on beasting in smash 4, so maybe other competetives will follow his lead..then again he moved on to brawl and the following didnt happen so who knows. (I'm not sure how much he plays mewtwo in PM, but I've seen some matches and he's gross good with him, even though he has expressed disdain about PM)
 

Oracle_Summon

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Wait, so it's okay to have another Mario with different moves, but we can't have Wolf and Lucas with somewhat varied moves from other character's?
Only if time constraints stop them from getting in the game. No other "reason" works in that decision.

Edit: I am not advocating that they should be cut, but Time Constraints is the only "excuse" that is acceptable to me as to why they are not in the game.
 
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Morbi

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Wait, so it's okay to have another Mario with different moves, but we can't have Wolf and Lucas with somewhat varied moves from other character's?
I suppose that depends on the final roster, it seems that you are referring to the roster as though you know what it is in its entirety. Please, enlighten us peasants!

The argument to refute this is that Dr. Mario requires little to no effort and variations on a couple of moves (n-special, d-special, FS) whereas Wolf and Lucas are practically their own characters.
 

Spinosaurus

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Wait, so it's okay to have another Mario with different moves, but we can't have Wolf and Lucas with somewhat varied moves from other character's?
Again

Wolf and Lucas have to be reanimated, tested for bugs, rebalanced, etc. They take as much time as any other veterans.

Doc and Dark Pit? Work is there for them already, except for the rebalancing, which is the one thing that makes them different.
 
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Ffamran

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On Lucas: he, Ninten, and Ness are just PK users which makes them difficult to be different. Hell, even Kumatora would be a bit difficult since the difference with her besides being a girl is that she fights with her fists in Mother 3 while Lucas, Ninten, and Ness all use sticks, bats, yo-yos, and other stuff kids can buy or find around town. She'd basically be Wolf in that her normals and smashes are different while her specials are just variants of Ness and Lucas. Claus would work since he uses a sword, but he's basically a walking spoiler for the many unaware of the Mother/EarthBound series. The other party members could work, but they're not that well-known even compared to the obscure protagonists of Mother/EarthBound.

Mother/EarthBound is a great series, but one where its characters, well, main characters, are just way too similar.

On Wolf, Falco, and some other Star Fox character like Krystal, Leon, Peppy, Panther, and dare I say it, Slippy: Krystal is many people's choice for a Star Fox character who cannot or shouldn't have a cloned move set. Why? Star Fox: Adventures despite the fact her staff never shows up in later games. The staff alone sets Krystal apart from everyone else and hell, it'd be easy to reference Adventures and take all the abilites and moves to make Krystal. The issue is making her which means time and money.

Wolf is more like Ike is to Marth than Roy is to Marth. Wolf's and Ike's Specials resembles Fox's and Marth's respectively, but function differently. Wolf's and Ike's normals and smashes, however, are different from Fox's and Marth's. So, I never really understood why people say Wolf's a clone of Fox (and Falco), but few say the same about Ike. That said, with Wolf's background and "aura", his Specials should have been more dirty compared to Fox and Falco. He's the anti-hero, the rival, and sometimes the villain. I feel that Wolf's Specials should have involved stuff like grenades, caltrops, a shotgun instead of a blaster - as kid-friendly as a shotgun can be -, a pounce-takedown instead of an illusion - or an illusion-assisted pounce -, and other feral, deceptive, and underhanded tactics. As for a Final Smash, couldn't he just snap his fingers, laugh, and have his Star Wolf team carpet bomb everyone? Come on, it'd tie in with his dastardliness.

Falco, on the other hand, makes sense with having the same gear as Fox, but Falcon's own flair is what makes him unique. Still, I wished that his Final Smash involved an Arwing since he's the ace pilot of Star Fox. Also, I think Falco should trade his Fire Bird with Wolf's Fire Wolf. Why? He's a bird and Wolf's Fire Wolf looks more air based than fire - I think the Japanese name, translated as "Wolf Shoot" makes more sense. It could be called Air Bird or something. Basically, a faster, more vertical lift compared to Fox's Fire Fox. Hell, change Falco Phantasm's animation so it looks like he's diving like a Peregrine falcon and call it "Falco Dive" and allow Falco to angle it down (or up) when in the air. I bet Captain Falcon would totally approve.

Now that I think of it, did Falco take Wolf's move set in Melee since Wolf was originally planned for Melee? Y'know, Wolf's Specials make more sense for Falco. Hmm...

TL;DR: Ideas and thoughts on Lucas and Star Fox characters.
 
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Gre ninja'd

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could you guys be kind and help me out if wolf is not in the final roster by supporting #wolf4smash I am so worrisome and nervous right to the point of no sleep and bad bathroom uses over this one character.
I'm sorry that it doesn't look like he's going to be playable this time around, but a small petition won't change it, who knows, there could be a vote on what characters could be dlc, but I'm pretty sure one hashtag won't change his chances, if vets were coming back from dlc I think ice climbers would be on the top of the list, sorry.
 

ultimatekoopa

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But he could have made the roster bigger with Lucas. You know a guy who isn't by canon a clone of another character on the roster. Same with Dr. Mario. Neither of them deserve to be in over Lucas and Wolf.
I agree with wolf but disagree with Lucas, I don't think Lucas deserved to be in Smash in the first place
 

Spinosaurus

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Yeah no matter the moveset, it's not surprising that Lucas is getting cut.

He caters to a very, very few. The Japanese don't even like his game considering everything, and he was chosen to be in Brawl before his game was even released.

I'll miss him though.
 
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~Krystal~

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On Lucas: he, Ninten, and Ness are just PK users which makes them difficult to be different. Hell, even Kumatora would be a bit difficult since the difference with her besides being a girl is that she fights with her fists in Mother 3 while Lucas, Ninten, and Ness all use sticks, bats, yo-yos, and other stuff kids can buy or find around town. She'd basically be Wolf in that her normals and smashes are different while her specials are just variants of Ness and Lucas. Claus would work since he uses a sword, but he's basically a walking spoiler for the many unaware of the Mother/EarthBound series. The other party members could work, but they're not that well-known even compared to the obscure protagonists of Mother/EarthBound.
I still maintain that Paula would be a fitting alternate for Ness and a sneaky way to squeeze in two Mother characters.

I agree with wolf but disagree with Lucas, I don't think Lucas deserved to be in Smash in the first place
*Goes berserk and flings insults at you.* How dare you say that? Lucas is the protagonist of the most well known JRPG of the last two decades. I'm surprised at you, Koopa. I really am. I expected so much better.
 

Morbi

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I'm sorry that it doesn't look like he's going to be playable this time around, but a small petition won't change it, who knows, there could be a vote on what characters could be dlc, but I'm pretty sure one hashtag won't change his chances, if vets were coming back from dlc I think ice climbers would be on the top of the list, sorry.
Do you know what people told me about Toon Link? Rosalina? Solo-Charizard? Phantom Zelda? Robin? Lucina? Dark Pit/Dr. Mario? They all said the same thing, albeit they were not as kind. They thought that those characters (or in the case of Phantom, attack) were impossible for no reason whatsoever, they blatantly disregarded our good friend, logic, in favor of their preconceived notions on what the roster was apparently shaping up to be.

Wolf might not "look" like he is coming back because he was not showcased on our precious leak. However, no one can counter his inclusion with a rational reason. Wolf was a popular veteran who is prominently featured within his own series. He is not going anywhere.
 

Oracle_Summon

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Do you know what people told me about Toon Link? Rosalina? Solo-Charizard? Phantom Zelda? Robin? Lucina? Dark Pit/Dr. Mario? They all said the same thing, albeit they were not as kind. They thought that those characters (or in the case of Phantom, attack) were impossible for no reason whatsoever, they blatantly disregarded our good friend, logic, in favor of their preconceived notions on what the roster was apparently shaping up to be.

Wolf might not "look" like he is coming back because he was not showcased on our precious leak. However, no one can counter his inclusion with a rational reason. Wolf was a popular veteran who is prominently featured within his own series. He is not going anywhere.
Here is a question about Dr. Mario:

What if he ends up being Mario's alternate costume, using Mario's exact moveset? What would you think?
 

CoolEric258

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Y'know, seeing how hostile and chaotic the forum is here, I wonder what the Melee and Brawl days were like. Was there any massive leak that spoiled everything and made half of the community go rabid? It's fascinating.
 

Lucimar

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could you guys be kind and help me out if wolf is not in the final roster by supporting #wolf4smash I am so worrisome and nervous right to the point of no sleep and bad bathroom uses over this one character.
I support Wolf for Smash 4! He was one of my favorite characters in Brawl and he definitely deserves to come back! I feel the same way about Lucas.
 

MasterOfKnees

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So PitTOO is a clone, but MewTWO is not? I would hate to refer to canon in a non-canon game, but Mewtwo was conceived through the DNA of Mew. He has been alluded to as a clone quite frequently in the source material. :mewtwomelee:
You sure know how to cause trouble out of every sentence, huh? :p
 

The Light Music Club

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Again

Wolf and Lucas have to be reanimated, tested for bugs, rebalanced, etc. They take as much time as any other veterans.

Doc and Dark Pit? Work is there for them already, except for the rebalancing, which is the one thing that makes them different.
Dr. Mario needs to function differently than Mario. I'm also sure Lucina and Dark Pit will get new animations.
 

ultimatekoopa

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I still maintain that Paula would be a fitting alternate for Ness and a sneaky way to squeeze in two Mother characters.


*Goes berserk and flings insults at you.* How dare you say that? Lucas is the protagonist of the most well known JRPG of the last two decades. I'm surprised at you, Koopa. I really am. I expected so much better.
Oh sorry, I didn't choose the correct words, what I'm trying to say is that Lucas didn't deserve to get over Dr.Mario in the first place, Toon Zelda, Dixie and the rest of the forbidden 7 deserved the spot more...except Roy
 

MasterOfKnees

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Y'know, seeing how hostile and chaotic the forum is here, I wonder what the Melee and Brawl days were like. Was there any massive leak that spoiled everything and made half of the community go rabid? It's fascinating.
Brawl was leaked, and I'd dare say it was waaaaay over half of the community that went nuts. I'm actually very pleased with the community's reaction this time, at least everyone isn't ganging up on anyone to the same extent that almost everyone did with poor R.O.B.
 

Oracle_Summon

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Yeah no matter the moveset, it's not surprising that Lucas is getting cut.

He caters to a very, very few. The Japanese don't even like his game considering everything, and he was chosen to be in Brawl before his game was even released.

I'll miss him though.
Considering that Mother 3 was supposed to be made for the N64, but never came to fruition and rumors claim that he was supposed to replace Ness really makes Lucas' inclusion make more sense.

Lucas was going to be in his game for the N64 Disc Drive, but the game went through Development hell and the Disc Drive did not work out like Nintendo had hoped.
 

~Krystal~

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Y'know, seeing how hostile and chaotic the forum is here, I wonder what the Melee and Brawl days were like. Was there any massive leak that spoiled everything and made half of the community go rabid? It's fascinating.
The community was actually more united when the Brawl leak came out, because practically everyone agreed the roster blew. This leak is a little more polarizing. It appeals to a good amount of people, yet disappoints a lot of others as well.

Oh sorry, I didn't choose the correct words, what I'm trying to say is that Lucas didn't deserve to get over Dr.Mario in the first place, Toon Zelda, Dixie and the rest of the forbidden 7 deserved the spot more...except Roy
I was only kidding. Truthfully, I agree with you.
 
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Masonomace

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At a certain point, he would probably feel obligated to add them anyways, even if we have to have "Ice Climber."
I'm late posting this cus this is like 4+ pages back from so much posting activity. Anyways, I find this amusing because their series in Smash Brothers is called the "Ice Climber series" Foreshadowing? I think so!:urg:
Wait, so it's okay to have another Mario with different moves, but we can't have Wolf and Lucas with somewhat varied moves from other character's?
Hyesz. Brawl Wolf B-air was too good of a spacing tool, invincible frames during shine was unheard of, Lucas was too godlike with B-sticking.
But to be short, quasi-clones take more effort than clones. Ho-ohhhhh wait you said just Mario with different moves? One Mario character in comparison with 2 semi-clones??? What's wrong with you Sakurai, trolling yourself it seems(?):troll:
 

Autumn ♫

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Brawl was leaked, and I'd dare say it was waaaaay over half of the community that went nuts. I'm actually very pleased with the community's reaction this time, at least everyone isn't ganging up on anyone to the same extent that almost everyone did with poor R.O.B.
Just wait until the full roster is revealed. That's when the fun begins. :evil::demon:
 

Morbi

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Here is a question about Dr. Mario:

What if he ends up being Mario's alternate costume, using Mario's exact moveset? What would you think?
I would down a bottle of Dr. Mario approved pills and tear my Sakurai poster off of the wall. But seriously, I would be mildly disturbed as Dr. Mario was one of my more frequently played characters whereas Mario was not used at all. I do not like Mario's character in the slightest; however, Dr. Mario makes everything okay. I suppose my hipster pride enables me to enjoy his character over Mario's. F.L.U.D.D attenuated my enthusiasm for Mario and the pills were my favorite projectiles in Smash, I say this as a Link main, mind you.

I would probably not even use the costume as it would not feel like Dr. Mario to me.
 

Oracle_Summon

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Again

Wolf and Lucas have to be reanimated, tested for bugs, rebalanced, etc. They take as much time as any other veterans.

Doc and Dark Pit? Work is there for them already, except for the rebalancing, which is the one thing that makes them different.
So do both Dr. Mario and Pit. They do not need as much time in moveset development, but need to have their hitboxes and models tested in the game among other things.
 

ihskeyp

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The community was actually more united when the Brawl leak came out, because practically everyone agreed the roster blew. This leak is a little more polarizing. It appeals to a good amount of people, yet disappoints a lot of others as well.


I was only kidding. Truthfully, I agree with you.
Brawl speculation was ridiculous lol. Everyone had their expectations way too high, making 50+ character roster predictions and what not, people set themselves up for disappointment. This time around, people accepted that we will never get 25 newcomers in one game.
 

Spinosaurus

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Dr. Mario needs to function differently than Mario. I'm also sure Lucina and Dark Pit will get new animations.
Even if they do get new animations, it'll only be a number of them. They'll still share a majority of the animations with their source character. Hell out of everything we've see of Lucina, only the taunt and side step animation was unique.

Wolf and Lucas on the other hand have to be made from scratch. Lucas only shares the FSmash animation with Ness.
 
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