Character Discussion Thread

[Diddy Kong]

What does this have to do with K. Rool's relevancy problem?

That the series had to be revived by another developer in order to avoid the terrible fate that the Mother series has going for itself.

 

[Zwzchow]

Not to me. Obvious bias for the Big Ca$h Maker $erie$ aka $uper Mario and again his own creations with so much Kid Icarus Uprising stuff while giving the other big series as Donkey Kong Country and Legend of Zelda next to nothing. DKC doesn't even have a new stage yet! Palutena gets worked on more than other characters with all her Custom Moves. Dark Pit gets chosen over other potential clones. Uprising enemies, items and ATs everywhere. And both versions got a new stage.

All I'm saying is, where is the love for the other big series? Why does bias and cash count more than what fans actually want from the game?

DKC is a series that has been shafted enourmously ever since Melee. Brawl took it the right direction to include Diddy, in a time where he needed the appearance the most since there was a serious lack of good DK games (only King of Swing and Jungle Climber where good- outside of the GBA DKC ports). Dixie was also considered, but got cut. Is it so much to ask to include AT LEAST her if you already considered her for the previous game? I do not think so.

No, $akurai rather cashes out on $uper Mario and the Wii $eries because $$$. Let's not include just one, no let's include FOUR characters from the Wii series cause why the **** not!? **** Donkey Kong, **** Zelda, get money, get *****es.

Inb4 Hyrule Tier 2.0.

>Implying that LoZ gets no love

And how is including 2 newcomers for Wii /cashing out/? (the mii fighters are essentially the same concept)
Wii is essentially part of Ninty's history
Was Wii Fit that popular? No.
People still love her for being a unique WTF character
Explain clearly how putting wii chars cash milking
Cash still refers to the money earned from this game ie the people who buy and (accept and) play THIS roster
There are chars from milked series doesn't mean the people are going to buy this game just for that
Nintendo has been slowing down the Mario games lately with all the switch to less focus on casual gamers (unless you didn't read the article)

All in all no one is going to be satisfied
You get Diddy! Next game" This character NEEDS and MUST get in!"

Anyway good night people it's late here

 

[The Light Music Club]

Dark Pit was most likely added because he was easy to make as a clone when they had the time to make more characters, think of them as as bonus characters, he's not being lazy, he's just using the time for extra characters to make the roster bigger.


What does this have to do with K. Rool's relevancy problem?

But he could have made the roster bigger with Lucas. You know a guy who isn't by canon a clone of another character on the roster. Same with Dr. Mario. Neither of them deserve to be in over Lucas and Wolf.

 

[Morbi]

Does anybody else think Ice Climber or Ice Climbers is happening in Smash 4 still?

I suppose, it is certainly within the realm of possibility. The reason I never truly advocated for their cut despite that notion that it was justified was because I figured that Sakurai would relentlessly attempt "make it work," and waste development time on a lost cause. At a certain point, he would probably feel obligated to add them anyways, even if we have to have "Ice Climber." I also still have faith in Lucas and to a more significant extent, Wolf.

 

[Zwzchow]

I suppose, it is certainly within the realm of possibility. The reason I never truly advocated for their cut despite that notion that it was justified was because I figured that Sakurai would relentlessly attempt "make it work," and waste development time on a lost cause. At a certain point, he would probably feel obligated to add them anyways, even if we have to have "Ice Climber." I also still have faith in Lucas and to a more significant extent, Wolf.

I like how everyone is tending to their normal business although I am in a heated argument with Diddy Kong :3
anws nite ppl

 

[The Light Music Club]

I suppose, it is certainly within the realm of possibility. The reason I never truly advocated for their cut despite that notion that it was justified was because I figured that Sakurai would relentlessly attempt "make it work," and waste development time on a lost cause. At a certain point, he would probably feel obligated to add them anyways, even if we have to have "Ice Climber." I also still have faith in Lucas and to a more significant extent, Wolf.

Yes, I think he should feel obligated. In what world does a whole series lose the honor of a playable character, when Mario gets 7?


I think there are four more characters: Ridley, Mewtwo, Wolf, and Ice Climber(s)

 

[BluePikmin11]

That the series had to be revived by another developer in order to avoid the terrible fate that the Mother series has going for itself.

It had to? I don't think they were forced to make a new DKC, it was most likely because they wanted to make a new DKC game.

But he could have made the roster bigger with Lucas. You know a guy who isn't by canon a clone of another character on the roster. Same with Dr. Mario. Neither of them deserve to be in over Lucas and Wolf.

Yeah that's probably because Nintendo wants to market the new, relevant, popular characters even if they are clones, so Lucas and Wolf were probably at the lower priority list because of it. Dr. Mario is a different case though, his importance is probably what made Sakurai brought back, as Dr. Mario was considered as one of the best all-time puzzles from Nintendo.

 

[The Light Music Club]

It had to? I don't think they were forced to make a new DKC, it was most likely because they wanted to make a new DKC game.

Yeah that's probably because Nintendo wants to market the new, relevant, popular characters even if they are clones, so Lucas and Wolf were probably at the lower priority list because of it. Dr. Mario is a different case though, his importance is probably what made Sakurai brought back, as Dr. Mario was considered as one of the best all-time puzzles from Nintendo.

Debatable. They announced the new Star Fox, and I'm 100% sure Star Wolf will be in that game. Plus, Sakurai said he isn't making a sequel to Kid Icarus Uprising, so it's in the same exact boat as Mother. Dr. Mario doesn't need to be in to represent puzzle games, Lip would've done a fine job at that.

As a huge fan of Dr. Mario in Melee, I still don't see the point in bringing back Dr. Mario. He hasn't had a full on game since the Nintendo 64. Lucas deserves that spot, as being a different character from one on the roster.

 

[Morbi]

But he could have made the roster bigger with Lucas. You know a guy who isn't by canon a clone of another character on the roster. Same with Dr. Mario. Neither of them deserve to be in over Lucas and Wolf.

To be fair, it depends which lens we analyze to determine whether or not a clone is "deserving." Dr. Mario is a clone of Nintendo's mascot, he represents his own series, and he has about as much, if not slightly more, smash relevance as Lucas. However, Lucas certainly wins in the unique character department. Albeit, when referring to clones, I do not believe that "unique move-set" is what gets one clone in over another.

I am not saying Lucas is cut or anything to that effect. But Dr. Mario is not a bad clone choice by any stretch of the imagination. I doubt people would feel so enraged by his inclusion if he appeared in Brawl as he was supposed to. People treat him as though he was supposed to be a one-shot to pad the roster. He should be treated as an alternate variation to Mario, one of Nintendo's most prominent characters.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Debatable. They announced the new Star Fox, and I'm 100% sure Star Wolf will be in that game. Plus, Sakurai said he isn't making a sequel to Kid Icarus Uprising, so it's in the same exact boat as Mother. Dr. Mario doesn't need to be in to represent puzzle games, Lip would've done a fine job at that.

As a huge fan of Dr. Mario in Melee, I still don't see the point in bringing back Dr. Mario. He hasn't had a full on game since the Nintendo 64.

Kid Icarus isn't in the same boat as Mother yet, so you can't use that as an argument right now.
And even though Starfox is getting a new game, it just started development and I highly doubt that Sakurai is going to take any influence to bring Wolf back considering the cuts and additions for the main roster are already set.

And honestly I can see real bias with the Lip and Dr. Mario statement, unless Panel de Pon becomes more popular than Dr. Mario with a new installment, Dr. Mario represents the puzzle genre for Nintendo extremely well.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Considering the fact Ganondorf is one of the most iconic Nintendo villains around and that he was added when his human form was relevant (OoT) in Melee and considering he's a veteran, I don't think he works as an argument benefiting K. Rool's problems with not appearing as the villain for the most recent DKC games.

Why is he..."Iconic?"

 

[Link Sharingan]

is this fake?

 

[Starcutter]

out of all the newcomers

seems the most interesting to me.


I like the stance change mechanic.

is this fake?

if it's real that guy needs a better potato camera. I don't think it is though.

 

[Morbi]

Why is he..."Iconic?"

Ganon? Why is Ganon iconic? There is far too much to cover, I do not want to take the lazy route out, but you should probably just read his wiki page. That way, I do not miss anything.

http://zeldawiki.org/Ganon

 

[Muster]

Why is he..."Iconic?"

Regarding thoughts on the current roster, i will miss snake but this is probably the best roster we've gotten in smash so far.

 

[AncientTobacco]

is this fake?

No, the blurriness clearly indicates that it's real.

 

[ihskeyp]

The difference between Ganondorf and K Rool:
Ganondorf was put in the game when he was still relevant to his series (even then he was only a clone) and Sakurai decided to keep him (and Sheik) around. They already have movesets and it would be pointless to cut him or Sheik.
K Rool wasn't put in when he was still the main antagonist of his series, he doesn't already have a moveset, but had he been put in during Melee time, I'm sure he'd still be in. But he wasn't. I just don't see him getting in. Especially since Sakurai is apparently stingy with villains....

Edit: and I'm not saying he has no chance, I just think Dixie would get in before him.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Kid Icarus isn't in the same boat as Mother yet, so you can't use that as an argument right now.

Considering that was the near identical statement that the creator of Mother Series said about Mother, then yes we can say the same thing about Kid Icarus Uprising.

Kid Icarus Uprising series' future does not look bright, unless a new developer decides to take over.

And even though Starfox is getting a new game, it just started development and I highly doubt that Sakurai is going to take any influence to bring Wolf back considering the cuts and additions for the main roster are already set.

It just started development, but it makes the Star Fox characters relevant again. The thing is, we have not seen the full Official Roster yet from Sakurai Himself.

And honestly I can see real bias with the Lip and Dr. Mario statement, unless Panel de Pon becomes more popular than Dr. Mario with a new installment, Dr. Mario represents the puzzle genre for Nintendo extremely well.

Dr. Mario is Nintendo's take of the puzzle series, but Panel De Pon is the official Nintendo Puzzle Series. Nintendo of America jus slapped her games with different characters to make them more Marketable to different markets. To Japan she is seen as the Nintendo Puzzle Game Mascot, but to America she is an unknown character.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

is this fake?

This is the tenth time I've seen this picture in this thread. We should celebrate. It's fake, by the way.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It had to? I don't think they were forced to make a new DKC, it was most likely because they wanted to make a new DKC game.

Yeah that's probably because Nintendo wants to market the new, relevant, popular characters even if they are clones, so Lucas and Wolf were probably at the lower priority list because of it. Dr. Mario is a different case though, his importance is probably what made Sakurai brought back, as Dr. Mario was considered as one of the best all-time puzzles from Nintendo.

Which is why he was high priority in Brawl.

 

[CJ Falcon]

is this fake?

I've seen that Ridley render before in other fake leaks. Fake.

 

[Morbi]

Considering that was the near identical statement that the creator of Mother Series said about Mother, then yes we can say the same thing about Kid Icarus Uprising.

Kid Icarus Uprising series' future does not look bright, unless a new developer decides to take over.



It just started development, but it makes the Star Fox characters relevant again. The thing is, we have not seen the full Official Roster yet from Sakurai Himself.



Dr. Mario is Nintendo's take of the puzzle series, but Panel De Pon is the official Nintendo Puzzle Series. Nintendo of America jus slapped her games with different characters to make them more Marketable to different markets. To Japan she is seen as the Nintendo Puzzle Game Mascot, but to America she is an unknown character.

To be fair, a new developer will probably take over Kid Icarus. Sakurai is still promoting the series and Uprising was quite successful. BluePikmin was merely asserting that the series is not in the same state as Mother until it definitively stagnates.

Agreed. I would also argue that Sakurai was aware of the project prior to the public reveal.

If that is the case, it is strange that Sakurai interprets Dr. Mario as the superior puzzle mascot.

 

[Baskerville]

I can see where Diddy is coming from with the lack of DK content so far in this game. From what I've gathered up, Kid Icarus has:
3 Characters
2 Stages
16 Smash Run ememies
2 Assist Trophies
6 Items
4 Trophies (7 for the 2 Pits and Palutena)

Compared to DK which has:
2 Characters
1 Stage
2 Smash
No Assist Trophies
2 Items (3 If you want to count the Peanuts from Diddy's Popgun)
2 Trophies (4 for the Kongs)
If I'm missing more feel fee to let me know.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

To be fair, a new developer will probably take over Kid Icarus. Sakurai is still promoting the series and Uprising was quite successful. BluePikmin was merely asserting that the series is not in the same state as Mother until it definitively stagnates.

Agreed. I would also argue that Sakurai was aware of the project prior to the public reveal.

If that is the case, it is strange that Sakurai interprets Dr. Mario as the superior puzzle mascot.

That is the thing though, the Kid Icarus Uprising series does not have a bright future ahead of itself, unless somebody from Nintendo decides to pick it up.

Dr. Mario was originally used in Melee to fill a roster spot since the game was nearing its Due Date. If Dr. Mario is in, it is because he is easy to add to the roster and fills up a roster spot.

 

[The Light Music Club]

is this fake?

I'm confused as to why someone would make this and change Dr. Mario's render?

Considering that was the near identical statement that the creator of Mother Series said about Mother, then yes we can say the same thing about Kid Icarus Uprising.

Kid Icarus Uprising series' future does not look bright, unless a new developer decides to take over.



It just started development, but it makes the Star Fox characters relevant again. The thing is, we have not seen the full Official Roster yet from Sakurai Himself.



Dr. Mario is Nintendo's take of the puzzle series, but Panel De Pon is the official Nintendo Puzzle Series. Nintendo of America jus slapped her games with different characters to make them more Marketable to different markets. To Japan she is seen as the Nintendo Puzzle Game Mascot, but to America she is an unknown character.

Thank You.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Considering that was the near identical statement that the creator of Mother Series said about Mother, then yes we can say the same thing about Kid Icarus Uprising.

Kid Icarus Uprising series' future does not look bright, unless a new developer decides to take over.



It just started development, but it makes the Star Fox characters relevant again. The thing is, we have not seen the full Official Roster yet from Sakurai Himself.



Dr. Mario is Nintendo's take of the puzzle series, but Panel De Pon is the official Nintendo Puzzle Series. Nintendo of America jus slapped her games with different characters to make them more Marketable to different markets. To Japan she is seen as the Nintendo Puzzle Game Mascot, but to America she is an unknown character.

But from how Sakurai is adding so much KI content and adding Palutena and Dark Pit as characters and how KI was shown as one of the big 8 franchises in the first trailer for Smash Bros., I don't think we have to worry about KI dying anytime soon, it's just that the newer games are probably not going to be made by Sakurai.

And the thing is, the roster was decided from the very beginning of development in 2012 right working on Kid Icarus Uprising, JUST before Star Fox for Wii U began it's development, it's safe to say that there won't be any influence with bringing Wolf back because of the new installment.

And for the last time, why is it so important that the type of series it's classified as so important to character decision making, I don't really see Sakurai picking Lip because her series is classified as the Official Nintendo Puzzle series, it's one of the most minor reasons Sakurai could consider a character for Smash.

 

[skylanders fan]

what do you guys think about mewtwos chances now

 

[Morbi]

I can see where Diddy is coming from with the lack of DK content so far in this game. From what I've gathered up, Kid Icarus has:
3 Characters
2 Stages
16 Smash Run ememies
2 Assist Trophies
6 Items
4 Trophies (7 for the 2 Pits and Palutena)

Compared to DK which has:
2 Characters
1 Stage
2 Smash
No Assist Trophies
2 Items (3 If you want to count the Peanuts from Diddy's Popgun)
2 Trophies (4 for the Kongs)
If I'm missing more feel fee to let me know.

That seems fair to be honest.

That is the thing though, the Kid Icarus Uprising series does not have a bright future ahead of itself, unless somebody from Nintendo decides to pick it up.

Dr. Mario was originally used in Melee to fill a roster spot since the game was nearing its Due Date. If Dr. Mario is in, it is because he is easy to add to the roster and fills up a roster spot.

In that event, I suppose a puzzle character is not interpreted as important to Sakurai-swan.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I can see where Diddy is coming from with the lack of DK content so far in this game. From what I've gathered up, Kid Icarus has:
3 Characters
2 Stages
16 Smash Run ememies
2 Assist Trophies
6 Items
4 Trophies (7 for the 2 Pits and Palutena)

Compared to DK which has:
2 Characters
1 Stage
2 Smash
No Assist Trophies
2 Items (3 If you want to count the Peanuts from Diddy's Popgun)
2 Trophies (4 for the Kongs)
If I'm missing more feel fee to let me know.

it's probably because KI has so many potential things that translate well in Smash.
Compared to DKC, there isn't much notable and fitting content that's that could Sakurai add aside from Klaptraps.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I''m not even a Donkey Kong Country fan (I've never had time to play the games), but the fact that the only stage they have is a Past Stages is really stupid.

I'm also mad Fourside didn't come back, and we have no Past N64 Stages. The stages on the 3DS version are pretty bad.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

But from how Sakurai is adding so much KI content and adding Palutena and Dark Pit as characters and how KI was shown as one of the big 8 franchises in the first trailer for Smash Bros., I don't think we have to worry about KI dying anytime soon, it's just that the newer games are probably not going to be made by Sakurai.

Because Sakurai wanted to add things from the Kid Icarus Uprising series and thought they would look nice. The games being made by somebody else is not certain and does not bode well, since it is the same road that the Mother Series headed down.

And the thing is, the roster was decided from the very beginning of development in 2012 right working on Kid Icarus Uprising, JUST before Star Fox for Wii U began it's development, it's safe to say that there won't be any influence with bringing Wolf back because of the new installment.

Wolf being in the previous installment is the only real influence that Sakurai needs and that Wolf is an established villain in the Star Fox series since his debut, the only one missing him being Star Fox Adventures, which did not start off as an official Star Fox Title.

That is one thing I question about the relevancy "points" that people make. Some characters we have not seen in years get added, but some from the new Nintendo Generation gets added as well. Each character is seen with different capabilities and what they can bring to Smash.

If Wolf happens to get cut from the game, it is not because of the "Relevancy Issues", but because of Time Constraints.

And for the last time, why is it so important that the type of series it's classified as so important to character decision making, I don't really see Sakurai picking Lip because her series is classified as the Official Nintendo Puzzle series, it's one of the most minor reasons Sakurai could consider a character for Smash.

Because you brought up Dr. Mario as the "most important puzzle character" of Nintendo. You don't really see Sakurai picking Lip because she is the Official Nintendo Puzzle series, but that dos not work in favor to your statement that "Dr. Mario was picked by Sakurai because of his 'importance' to Nintendo".

If Dr. Mario gets in the game, it is because he was an easy character to fill in the roster slot.

 

[CJ Falcon]

That seems fair to be honest.

it's probably because KI has so many potential things that translate well in Smash.
Compared to DKC, there isn't much notable and fitting content that's that could Sakurai add aside from Klaptraps.

That is just bull feces.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

That seems fair to be honest.


In that event, I suppose a puzzle character is not interpreted as important to Sakurai-swan.

Could be, but my main point being that if Dr. Mario was picked for Smash 4, it is not because he is more important, but because he is there to fill a roster spot.

 

[Baskerville]

That seems fair to be honest.


In that event, I suppose a puzzle character is not interpreted as important to Sakurai-swan.

How so?
Because honestly with how well Returns did, and how the DKC SNES games are still very beloved and popular, it's pretty ridiculous that so far, the DK series has only gotten this amount?

 

[The Light Music Club]

Could be, but my main point being that if Dr. Mario was picked for Smash 4, it is not because he is more important, but because he is there to fill a roster spot.

I agree, because Wolf is 100 times more important. His variation from Fox and Falco might be the death of him which is ridiculous.

 

[BluePikmin11]

That is just bull feces.

Name me some fitting content from DKC that Sakurai can add in Smash Bros while also overlapping the amount of KI content has.

Because Sakurai wanted to add things from the Kid Icarus Uprising series and thought they would look nice. The games being made by somebody else is not certain and does not bode well, since it is the same road that the Mother Series headed down.



Wolf being in the previous installment is the only real influence that Sakurai needs and that Wolf is an established villain in the Star Fox series since his debut, the only one missing him being Star Fox Adventures, which did not start off as an official Star Fox Title.

That is one thing I question about the relevancy "points" that people make. Some characters we have not seen in years get added, but some from the new Nintendo Generation gets added as well. Each character is seen with different capabilities and what they can bring to Smash.

If Wolf happens to get cut from the game, it is not because of the "Relevancy Issues", but because of Time Constraints.



Because you brought up Dr. Mario as the "most important puzzle character" of Nintendo. You don't really see Sakurai picking Lip because she is the Official Nintendo Puzzle series, but that dos not work in favor to your statement that "Dr. Mario was picked by Sakurai because of his 'importance' to Nintendo".

If Dr. Mario gets in the game, it is because he was an easy character to fill in the roster slot.

Still it doesn't mean the KI is officially over unless Nintendo says otherwise, it still can't be used as an excuse.

The capabilities argument is pointless IMO, considering Wolf is a clone of Fox. Because of the new Nintendo games coming out, it's pretty obvious that Dark Pit and Lucina are being used to help advertise Smash Bros. Because they are relevant, new, and popular characters, they are the reason why they are taking the opportunity as the last minute clones instead of Lucas and Wolf, whose series doesn't seem to be pretty active in marketing.

And Sakurai didn't add Dr. Mario for nothing you know, he was not just added because he was an easy filler clone to fill out in Melee and in Smash 4. His series was very big, popular, and critically acclaimed because of those reasons, he was feasible as a character choice in the roster, unlike Panel de Pon, Lip being the superior puzzle character is laughable.

 

[FalcoPaunch!121]

Yes, I think he should feel obligated. In what world does a whole series lose the honor of a playable character, when Mario gets 7?


I think there are four more characters: Ridley, Mewtwo, Wolf, and Ice Climber(s)

You, by dear friend, are going slightly cuckoo in the head. No offense, but Ridley? Playable?

5 more characters, RH rep (including RH Girl), , , , and . If 6, maybe Lloyd Irving??? No? Anyone?

Could be, but my main point being that if Dr. Mario was picked for Smash 4, it is not because he is more important, but because he is there to fill a roster spot.

is a clone. If people need a spot to fill the roster, add K Rool, or better yet, Black Shadow with 's moveset.

 

[DraginHikari]

I find the arguments of popularity and relevance when it comes to Smash Brothers in particular since the series has been kind of known to do weird selections just for the sake of doing so.

Also considering the actual combination of the roster was never the biggest factor for me toe begin with I don't really come to expect that a series is 'owed' a character just because of the difference in series choices.

 

[Weeman]

Another DK representation argument i see, items i can understand why, since there aren't many "iconic" DK items besides barrels, wich are already a thing in Smash.
As for Assist trophies i agree they should have at least one or two.
Everything else i suppose i can agree, i mean i want K. Rool as much as the next guy, but DK and Diddy seem pretty fair to me, and i don't really want to compare it to other franchises because it just creates flame wars.
And honestly it's not like Sakurai has always followed a rule of who needs more representation.

 

[Spinosaurus]

But he could have made the roster bigger with Lucas. You know a guy who isn't by canon a clone of another character on the roster. Same with Dr. Mario. Neither of them deserve to be in over Lucas and Wolf.

Lucas and Wolf have to be reanimated, so they take as much time as any other veteran.

The work is there for Doc and Dark Pit, however.