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Diddy Kong

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I find it funny that people want a new zelda rep or dk rep when metroid just has 2 versions of samus
Zelda hasn't had one since Melee. Sakurai didn't even bother giving us the Ganondorf we wanted, up to 2 times.
DKC is much bigger than Metroid and has way more workable characters as well. Should've gotten 2 newcomers even, now we're literally begging for one. At least ONE AT or ONE item that isn't the horrible Spring would do...
 

Masonomace

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3)Donkey Kong not getting almost no new content whatsoever, despite being an ICON in gaming, but Kid Icarus has no problem gets a TON of content.
This to the max. DK got the stain this Smash coming around, to my knowledge only showing one tiny added element. . .Smash Run enemy, & K. Rool hasn't even been hinted at other than for that sole reason. DK where's your 3rd playable character for fest sake!

Metroid needs it more tbh. Perhaps Metroid fans are satisfied with the fan-service they got via costumes?:rolleyes:
Tbh imo, F-Zero could use 1 more if Mother remains to keep Lucas in with Ness.
@ Diddy Kong Diddy Kong yeah what you just said. Which indirectly shoots down F-Zero getting another fighter in :4falcon:'s series. . .
"I suppose I'll get another chance next time"
 

Zwzchow

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If there's no Mewtwo / Dixie / Impa this roster has failed badly.

All should make it in, also based on the Forbidden 7. Yes, Impa could be the spiritual succesor to 'Toon Sheik' and a way to avoid 3 characters being Zelda. Mewtwo shouldn't take so much time considering he was in Melee and had leftover data from Brawl. Dixie and Impa could be clones or semi-clones.

No excuses for no newcomer from DKC and Zelda. And no excuses not to put in Mewtwo.
Don't put everything as "should" "No excuses" "failed badly"
Don't put everything as oh I must have it this way
it seriously undermines your statements

For one the team would need to revamp everything for Mewtwo they don't really use the leftover data but only the ideas. They have revamp everything from model to animations
Leftover data DOES NOT contribute to character playability
 
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Diddy Kong

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It worked for the developers of Project M, so why wouldn't it work for Sakurai and team?
 

Zwzchow

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It worked for the developers of Project M, so why wouldn't it work for Sakurai and team?
No offence but your tone makes you sound very...erm idk

I am just saying that leftover data =/= character playability chances

On a side note did the PM team create the models based off the leftover data?
 

FlareHabanero

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It worked for the developers of Project M, so why wouldn't it work for Sakurai and team?
Having to develop nearly 50 characters, bug testing and balancing included, does take up a large amount of time. That's not even dwelling into the varies bells and whistles like the items, trophies, and stages. Everything has to be made from scratch too, meaning the developers can't simply port stuff over. On top of that, there are two versions of this game that have vastly different hardware.

That crap adds up fast.

Not to mention, it was flat stated that making Mewtwo took roughly 800 hours. Imagine that but with a 50-ish character roster.
 
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Zwzchow

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Having to develop nearly 50 characters, bug testing and balancing included, does take up a large amount of time. That's not even dwelling into the varies bells and whistles like the items, trophies, and stages. Everything has to be made from scratch too, meaning the developers can't simply port stuff over. On top of that, there are two versions of this game that have vastly different hardware.

That crap adds up fast.

Not to mention, it was flat stated that making Mewtwo and Roy took roughly 800 hours. Imagine that but with a 50-ish character roster.
Digressed a bit
He's mainly talking about characters
Your argument is a bit flawed since the team would have already chosen to set time away for Mewtwo if he was decided to be in the game
 

ihskeyp

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No offence but your tone makes you sound very...erm idk

I am just saying that leftover data =/= character playability chances

On a side note did the PM team create the models based off the leftover data?
Actually leftover data could give certain characters more of a chance at playability. It means sakurai thought that character was important enough to consider and even start working on them for smash. Unlike many characters that people want, that sakurai may never even acknowledge.
 

Zwzchow

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Actually leftover data could give certain characters more of a chance at playability. It means sakurai thought that character was important enough to consider and even start working on them for smash. Unlike many characters that people want, that sakurai may never even acknowledge.
Ah yes but this guy is saying that it takes less time to develop a character if he has leftover data so yeah (My bad for not making it clear)
not to mention his tone is just ugh (No offence meant)
Mewtwo shouldn't take so much time considering he was in Melee and had leftover data from Brawl.
 

BluePikmin11

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It is interesting to me that you don't seem to know K Rools credentials in the slightest, yet you feel qualified enough to tell his fans and everyone else what qualifies as a game appearance and what does not.
What? That fan demand is his best credential for K. Rool? :glare:
I'm just wanted to know what notable appearances he made in the DKC series.


Still makes me sad that Alph might be an alt while Dr. Mario is a separate character. They couldn't slightly change some of his stats? The Pikmin representation is bad enough already, especially in Smash Run. One more character couldn't have hurt for Pikmin. ;-;

Also, if Mewtwo gets in, what happens to Project M Mewtwo? Since PM can't legally put in new characters from Smash 4, would they have to remove him? Or because it's based on Melee Mewtwo, does he stay?
I know that feel man. I wish Alph made it in as a clone. :(
 
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ihskeyp

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Ah yes but this guy is saying that it takes less time to develop a character if he has leftover data so yeah (My bad for not making it clear)
not to mention his tone is just ugh (No offence meant)
Ohh okay, sorry, I misunderstood you.
 

FlareHabanero

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Digressed a bit
He's mainly talking about characters
Your argument is a bit flawed since the team would have already chosen to set time away for Mewtwo if he was decided to be in the game
Still doesn't change the fact that developing characters isn't magic.

Though in the case of Mewtwo, he's the type of character that needs a really big overhaul in order to be worth the development time. However, that's easier said then done because of the amount of priorities saddling on the developers shoulders. It also doesn't help that The Pokemon Company is stingy when it comes to characters, and Mewtwo had really bad reception the last time he was a playable character. So if the developers don't see it as a worthwhile effort, they'll simply pass over it.
 
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Zwzchow

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On a side note when can we start making smash 5 threads (prolly never or 6-7 years time)

/Splatoon or Code Name Steam rep whoop!

(I really hope we get a new game due although Sakurai's injury maybe worsening :( )


It also doesn't help that The Pokemon Company is stingy when it comes to characters, and Mewtwo had really bad reception the last time he was a playable character. So if the developers don't see it as a worthwhile effort, they'll simply pass over it.
Devil's advocate:

"But Mewtwo got not 1 but 2 new megas in XY. Obviously shows that Pokemon Company pays attention to him"
 
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ElPanandero

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Oh man. . .Mewtwo's gonna be nominated as the King of Darkness if we go around saying that & it actually happens. Prepare to feel like a parent when it's all said & done & Mewtwo legit gets 2 kinds of move-sets to bode for his speculated 2 Mega Evolutions via Final Smash(s).:smirk:

EDIT: But seriously Mewtwo needs a tune-up. Nintendo notices Project M, & they know of Mewtwo in the game I'm sure. If Mewtwo is in Sm4sh & 5, he's gonna be compared to P:M Mewtwo & result in being a 'better' or 'worse' than character.:urg:
I don't think they've been told they can't add in new stuff, they just want to avoid it in order to avoid getting Nintnedo mad at them. It's a good question though, I imagine since he's from melee (and not a smash 4 exclusive) they might leave him in. I believe, Technically PM itself isn't legal, with or without mewtwo, its just a matter of trying to remain low key and not step on Ninty's toes
 

pupNapoleon

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What? That fan demand is his best credential for K. Rool? :glare:
I'm just wanted to know what notable appearances he made in the DKC series.
And you were told (or could have googled), yet somehow felt you could contest it. These are his appearances as the main, story driving, villain. In others, he appears in minigames, etc. Those others are not DKC games, though. They are Konga, and... I believe some of the offshoots, like the DK v Mario games.

Donkey Kong Country 1.
Donkey Kong Country 2.
Donkey Kong Country 3.
Donkey Kong Land 1.
Donkey Kong Land 2.
Donkey Kong Land 3.
Donkey Kong 64.
Donkey Kong: King of Swing.
Donkey Kong: Jungle Climber.

*He is also the villain in the DK TV show.

If you want to know his further credentials, please see the first page of this post. He screams unique playability, which is the most important credential. He is extremely personified and expressionistic.

The literal only thing not in his favor is that we have not seen him in the most recent two Kong games, and even that is a questionable statement, considering, as others have said, Ganondorf.
Furthermore, his not being in this game could easily be seen as just 'not yet,' rather than he is not coming back, considering the build we have gotten of content from just DKCR to DCKRTF. I made a three point post about it on this very page of this forum.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Main antagonist in all of them, except for the last three.
He was the main antagonist in DK: King of Swing and DK Jungle Climber to. King of Swing's plot was actually nothing special, it basically just involves King K.Rool interrupting a Kong climbing festival and stealing their medallons. DK Jungle Climber has a more serious plot.

Should be noted that King K.Rool was also playable in King of Swing and Barrel Blast despite having "lesser" roles in them.

He's certainly deserving.
No offence but your tone makes you sound very...erm idk

I am just saying that leftover data =/= character playability chances

On a side note did the PM team create the models based off the leftover data?
I am only responsible for what I type, not on how it will be perceived by others. Why assume something about me, and be most likely wrong when you could ask for clarity?
 

pupNapoleon

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I am only responsible for what I type, not on how it will be perceived by others. Why assume something about me, and be most likely wrong when you could ask for clarity?
Communication is not one side purging all thoughts and emotions into a bucket, and saying '**** it if anyone understands that.'
Communication is attempting to relate to the other side, create a dialogue, and make sure both sides create a bridge that can be walked across.
 

Diddy Kong

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Communication is not one side purging all thoughts and emotions into a bucket, and saying '**** it if anyone understands that.'
Communication is attempting to relate to the other side, create a dialogue, and make sure both sides create a bridge that can be walked across.
I wanted to create the brigde of extreme dissapointment in the roster choices. I think I was succesful.
 

JaidynReiman

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King K. Rool doesn't have any notable appearances in the DK games? Lolwut?! He's only absent in like three games, one of which doesn't feature any other DK characters whatsoever. He's even mentioned in Diddy Kong Racing, and he's the main antagonist of every DK game he appears in (except arguably Barrel Blast, which doesn't have a story, but even then the characters are split into the Kongs as heroes and Kremlings as villains, with K. Rool at the top of the villains).


People aren't just arbitrarily picking King K. Rool for no reason. He's brought up because he's popular and an ICONIC Nintendo villain, the main antagonist of one of Nintendo's biggest franchises. Of COURSE he's going to be brought up.
 

Masonomace

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I don't think they've been told they can't add in new stuff, they just want to avoid it in order to avoid getting Nintnedo mad at them. It's a good question though, I imagine since he's from melee (and not a smash 4 exclusive) they might leave him in. I believe, Technically PM itself isn't legal, with or without mewtwo, its just a matter of trying to remain low key and not step on Ninty's toes
That's a good point, & I do see why Nintendo would get mad, yet Mewtwo isn't in Brawl's roster so his inclusion in a mod feels justified for the fans pleased. If players who play Brawl's mod Project M love it for Mewtwo & Roy, & if they happen to notice Mewtwo announced in Sm4sh & Sm5sh rosters, the players would wonder "Is Sm4sh / Sm5sh Mewtwo worth buying the game for me?" Most mewtwo fans would buy the game no matter how good or bad the character will be. The hardcore mewtwo fans that are competitive (this is a specific crowd) may find the game not worthy of purchasing & continue to return to playing Project M Mewtwo.:ohwell:
 

ihskeyp

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I think they do, which is why there are characters that are getting blamed for being a "waste of a character slot."
I really hate when people say that, though. There is no such thing as a waste of a character slot. Character slots are unlimited. The only limiting factor for characters is development time. So people should be saying 'waste of development time' not a waste of a 'slot'.
 

Masonomace

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I really hate when people say that, though. There is no such thing as a waste of a character slot. Character slots are unlimited. The only limiting factor for characters is development time. So people should be saying 'waste of development time' not a waste of a 'slot'.
This gives me many reasons to cogitate over, but simply put: If character slots were unlimited there wouldn't any limiting factors.:p
Any 'waste' of development time committed into any character slot still becomes a waste of a slot in the end. Though someone calling something a waste, in this case slots, sounds subjective to me.

Idea + Development(x) = character slot on the roster / CSS(?)
 
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Diddy Kong

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imo. it is unjustified
Not to me. Obvious bias for the Big Ca$h Maker $erie$ aka $uper Mario and again his own creations with so much Kid Icarus Uprising stuff while giving the other big series as Donkey Kong Country and Legend of Zelda next to nothing. DKC doesn't even have a new stage yet! Palutena gets worked on more than other characters with all her Custom Moves. Dark Pit gets chosen over other potential clones. Uprising enemies, items and ATs everywhere. And both versions got a new stage.

All I'm saying is, where is the love for the other big series? Why does bias and cash count more than what fans actually want from the game?

DKC is a series that has been shafted enourmously ever since Melee. Brawl took it the right direction to include Diddy, in a time where he needed the appearance the most since there was a serious lack of good DK games (only King of Swing and Jungle Climber where good- outside of the GBA DKC ports). Dixie was also considered, but got cut. Is it so much to ask to include AT LEAST her if you already considered her for the previous game? I do not think so.

No, $akurai rather cashes out on $uper Mario and the Wii $eries because $$$. Let's not include just one, no let's include FOUR characters from the Wii series cause why the **** not!? :4mii::4wiifit: **** Donkey Kong, **** Zelda, get money, get *******. :glare:

Inb4 Hyrule Tier 2.0. :ganondorf:
 

CJ Falcon

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I still don't get why Dark Pit is his own character in the game. What, now Sakurai is guilty of laziness in addition to favoritism? Magnus and Phosphora, who would have made for much better and unique characters, are stuck being assist trophies while the Pit clone with an attitude gets his own slot? Makes sense, huh Masahiro?
 

Second Power

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I still don't get why Dark Pit is his own character in the game. What, now Sakurai is guilty of laziness in addition to favoritism? Magnus and Phosphora, who would have made for much better and unique characters, are stuck being assist trophies while the Pit clone with an attitude gets his own slot? Makes sense, huh Masahiro?
Unless you want Magnus as an Ike clone, or Phosphora as a Zelda clone, neither are viable alternatives to Dark Pit. He's most likely a clone, which means he should be weighted as such. It's like comparing a bicycle to a car.

Nevermind Dark Pit is more important to KI:U than either of those characters.
 
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BluePikmin11

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The literal only thing not in his favor is that we have not seen him in the most recent two Kong games, and even that is a questionable statement, considering, as others have said, Ganondorf.
Furthermore, his not being in this game could easily be seen as just 'not yet,' rather than he is not coming back, considering the build we have gotten of content from just DKCR to DCKRTF. I made a three point post about it on this very page of this forum.
Considering the fact Ganondorf is one of the most iconic Nintendo villains around and that he was added when his human form was relevant (OoT) in Melee and considering he's a veteran, I don't think he works as an argument benefiting K. Rool's problems with not appearing as the villain for the most recent DKC games.
 

CJ Falcon

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Unless you want Magnus as an Ike clone, or Phosphora as a Zelda clone, neither are viable alternatives to Dark Pit. He's most likely a clone, which means he should be weighted as such. It's like comparing a bicycle to a car.

Nevermind Dark Pit is more important to KI:U than either of those characters.
I'd much rather have Magnus and Phosphora as clone characters than Dark Pit as one. At least Magnus and Phosphora would look totally different from the characters they would be clones of. They wouldn't just be lame pallet swaps. I don't see how Dark Pit is more important than Magnus. You got to play as him too.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Considering the fact Ganondorf is one of the most iconic Nintendo villains around and that he was added when his human form was relevant (OoT) in Melee and considering he's a veteran, I don't think he works as an argument benefiting K. Rool's problems with not appearing as the villain for the most recent DKC games.
Problem is, there aren't exactly as many DKC games as there are Zelda games.
 

Gre ninja'd

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Not to me. Obvious bias for the Big Ca$h Maker $erie$ aka $uper Mario and again his own creations with so much Kid Icarus Uprising stuff while giving the other big series as Donkey Kong Country and Legend of Zelda next to nothing. DKC doesn't even have a new stage yet! Palutena gets worked on more than other characters with all her Custom Moves. Dark Pit gets chosen over other potential clones. Uprising enemies, items and ATs everywhere. And both versions got a new stage.

All I'm saying is, where is the love for the other big series? Why does bias and cash count more than what fans actually want from the game?

DKC is a series that has been shafted enourmously ever since Melee. Brawl took it the right direction to include Diddy, in a time where he needed the appearance the most since there was a serious lack of good DK games (only King of Swing and Jungle Climber where good- outside of the GBA DKC ports). Dixie was also considered, but got cut. Is it so much to ask to include AT LEAST her if you already considered her for the previous game? I do not think so.

No, $akurai rather cashes out on $uper Mario and the Wii $eries because $$$. Let's not include just one, no let's include FOUR characters from the Wii series cause why the **** not!? :4mii::4wiifit: **** Donkey Kong, **** Zelda, get money, get *****es. :glare:

Inb4 Hyrule Tier 2.0. :ganondorf:
I know that you love certain series and I agree they deserve a rep, but adding mario characters shouldn't get anyone mad, even if one is dr mario, because he would be a last minute edition, like lucina and more than likely dark pit, for roster padding. I agree that dk and zelda do deserve more reps than they have, but I think if dk doesn't get k rool, they won't get a rep at all, or else there would be too many clones on the roster imo. Zelda should get either vaati or groose as a newcomer, and I'm not even kidding about groose, he'd be the best joke character in history. Wii fit is a wii best seller, so it makes sense to have the wii fit trainers in, and the miis are even more obvious, since I'm pretty sure you were required to make at least one, and they are featured in many games. And I get the anger towards falcondorf, a main villain should have actual unique specials, which is why I am excited for custom moveset sot make clones less cloney. You shouldn't get mad over all that, because it will still be an awesome game and I will guarantee you that you will love most of the characters, so keep an open mind and stay positive!
 
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BluePikmin11

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I still don't get why Dark Pit is his own character in the game. What, now Sakurai is guilty of laziness in addition to favoritism? Magnus and Phosphora, who would have made for much better and unique characters, are stuck being assist trophies while the Pit clone with an attitude gets his own slot? Makes sense, huh Masahiro?
Dark Pit was most likely added because he was easy to make as a clone when they had the time to make more characters, think of them as as bonus characters, he's not being lazy, he's just using the time for extra characters to make the roster bigger.

Problem is, there aren't exactly as many DKC games as there are Zelda games.
What does this have to do with K. Rool's relevancy problem?
 
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