Character Discussion Thread

[~Krystal~]

Wolf probably required more effort to put back in than Dr. Mario, whom I assume started out as an alt like Lucina. Mewtwo lovers also have to realize that his moveset is completely original and would require as much effort as a newcomer to put in, so it's not as much Dr. Mario vs. Mewtwo as much as it is Dr. Mario vs. Alph.

 

[MagnesD3]

all I know is that wolf deserves to be in. he is unique, he is a main character of his series plus we need more villains lord knows we do sometimes I buy games just to play as the villains. I'm knocking the doc but seriously? Dr. Mario? of all characters to bring back from the dead they could of did better cutting wolf (if he is cut of course) for this guy? what is sakurai thinking? guess we will never know.

Yeah I have literally been on edge and stressed out since the convincing leak dropped. It has been miserable and its all I can think about. Im the type of guy when I like something Im a little obsessive about it (Its why I am a gamer extraordinaire) but its not helping in this case as its just making me worry about my childhood dream character just being ripped away because there arent enough good star fox games out there and not enough star fox fans in the world to stop it from happening...

 

[Pakky]

Of course he is the main rival/antagonist of Star Fox and is the leader of the Star Wolf Team!!!

My thoughts exactly because I doubt Pigma would fit and Wolf always felt more completely character as opposed to Falco, but that's my opinion.

 

[mark welford]

Yeah I have literally been on edge and stressed out since the convincing leak dropped. It has been miserable and its all I can think about. Im the type of guy when I like something Im a little obsessive about it (Its why I am a gamer extraordinaire) but its not helping in this case as its just making me worry about my childhood dream character just being ripped away because there arent enough good star fox games out there and not enough star fox fans in the world to stop it from happening...

like I said if he is cut we should flood NoA's and sakurai's twitter in a campaign until we get what we want using #wolf4smash.

 

[MagnesD3]

like I said if he is cut we should flood NoA's and sakurai's twitter in a campaign until we get what we want using #wolf4smash.

And we will if we must

My thoughts exactly because I doubt Pigma would fit and Wolf always felt more completely character as opposed to Falco, but that's my opinion.

I like falco as well but wolf is far more important of a character both earned their spots its just wolf deserves it more.

 

[mark welford]

And we will if we must


I like falco as well but wolf is far more important of a character both earned their spots its just wolf deserves it more.

I will not rest in my relentlessness until I see that wolf wearing the one eye visor if he is indeed cut also I need to tell you something on your account.

 

[MagnesD3]

I will not rest in my relentlessness until I see that wolf wearing the one eye visor if he is indeed cut also I need to tell you something on your account.

oh ok shoot.

 

[mark welford]

no excuse for ice climbers or wolf to be cut.

 

[Masonomace]

no excuse for ice climbers or wolf to be cut.

No eggscuses?
Maybe wolf's eggscuse for not being included in Melee replaced by Falco will repeat itself. The counter-argument to that is, "dude, we have 3 obvious clone characters in the game, A Fox clone isn't stretching it".

Ice Climbers however have a few valid eggscuses due to unfair game-play grab gimmick(s) needing balance, technical issues on the previously known 3DS's, (though now the 3DS LL's are solid & have the power I'm sure can handle Ice Climbers and / or Chorus Kids)& if this is to be the case, why has Charizard from the only fighter returning "solo" if Nintendo would of known prior months ahead they could be playable on those new 3DS consoles. . .Easy & simple reply would be "DLC".

 

[mark welford]

No eggscuses?
Maybe wolf's eggscuse for not being included in Melee replaced by Falco will repeat itself. The counter-argument to that is, "dude, we have 3 obvious clone characters in the game, A Fox clone isn't stretching it".

Ice Climbers however have a few valid eggscuses due to unfair game-play grab gimmick(s) needing balance, technical issues on the previously known 3DS's, (though now the 3DS LL's are solid & have the power I'm sure can handle Ice Climbers and / or Chorus Kids)& if this is to be the case, why has Charizard from the only fighter returning "solo" if Nintendo would of known prior months ahead they could be playable on those new 3DS consoles. . .Easy & simple reply would be "DLC".

your argument does not waiver my faith. so think of this as a non-counter argument.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Just realized again how sad I'll be to see the Ice Climbers go if they are truly gone from Smash. At this point they're just such an iconic part of Smash kind of like Captain Falcon or Game and Watch, icons who are known primarily as those characters from Smash, and add to that they're unique play style and charm they bring into the game, particularly things like their music and other little touches. It'll just be so sad to see them go if they are gone. I'd argue that losing them is about as equally painful as losing Mewtwo in the transition from Melee to Brawl, perhaps even more so considering how well the Ice Climbers have played in the past (I mean Mewtwo was awesome as hell, but his move set did leave some to be desired...)

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'd say it's becoming a staple to have 1-time clones.

Pichu and Roy in Melee.
Lucas and Wolf in Brawl.
And perhaps Dark Pit and Lucina in this one.

Doc seems to be a popular recurring last minute clone now. Young Link became Toon Link and now a staple character.

As for Ice Climbers. All I can say is I hope they return as a solo Ice Climber. Because getting grabbed to death isn't fun, but the characters themselves have grown on me a LOT. I think a buff will be enough for Sopo/Sona.

 

[Masonomace]

Pertaining to the characters, this is something to speculate on: http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/260805043

Take it decently.

 

[Deleted member]

Pertaining to the characters, this is something to speculate on: http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/260805043

Take it decently.

I want it to be true. (Mainly because Ice Climbers at least seem to be returning as DLC)
Do you think if I clap hard enough, it will be ?

 

[JaidynReiman]

Pertaining to the characters, this is something to speculate on: http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/260805043

Take it decently.

Its blatantly fake, Chrom was never planned to be playable game at all. I could definitely see DLC happening to expand the roster in the future, though.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

At this point we shouldn't believe any text leak. We need pictures now, anything else shouldn't be trusted.

 

[Frostwraith]

We saw that the leaked roster still had 5 spots to be filled. In my most optimistic view, four of them would be Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, Lucas and Wolf. I'd be really happy if that happened.

The only cuts that bother me less are Ivysaur, Squirtle and Snake as I already had the expectation they would be cut. I'll still miss them anyway.

There have also been a few rumors about DLC... While there's no way to tell if they're real or not, I'd assume it's something we won't know for a while, especially with the Wii U version releasing later.

 

[JaidynReiman]

We saw that the leaked roster still had 5 spots to be filled. In my most optimistic view, four of them would be Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, Lucas and Wolf. I'd be really happy if that happened.

The only cuts that bother me less are Ivysaur, Squirtle and Snake as I already had the expectation they would be cut. I'll still miss them anyway.

There have also been a few rumors about DLC... While there's no way to tell if they're real or not, I'd assume it's something we won't know for a while, especially with the Wii U version releasing later.

Unfortunately, Lucas and Ice Climbers both look to be incredibly unlikely. Mewtwo and Wolf are the only two of those four I can actually see being in those slots. Lucas and Ice Climbers could potentially be DLC, but its unlikely they'll be in the final roster due to placement (Ness is right alongside the single franchise reps) and unlockability (Ice Climbers have been starters for two games now; characters sometimes change unlockable status, but its highly unlikely a character whose been a starter for two games straight will suddenly be made unlockable).

 

[Masonomace]

I want it to be true. (Mainly because Ice Climbers at least seem to be returning as DLC)
Do you think if I clap hard enough, it will be ?

As long as hearts don't emit from your mittens, sure.

We saw that the leaked roster still had 5 spots to be filled. In my most optimistic view, four of them would be Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, Lucas and Wolf. I'd be really happy if that happened.

The only cuts that bother me less are Ivysaur, Squirtle and Snake as I already had the expectation they would be cut. I'll still miss them anyway.

There have also been a few rumors about DLC... While there's no way to tell if they're real or not, I'd assume it's something we won't know for a while, especially with the Wii U version releasing later.

This whole news about the new 3DS LL's makes me as optimistic as you are about the Ice Climbers honestly staying in the roster, yet I feel they were announced so late, & it won't be until October when they release in Japan having no idea when they'll release everywhere else or if they're worldwide. I'm going to believe IC's being the controversy to the 3DS, they won't be in the final roster until later announced as DLC around the same time WiiU's release date rolls around.

That said I pretty much feel neutral on everyone else besides Snake Squirtle & Ivysaur.

Speaking of Mewtwo, I made up this idea of a new change of replacing Mewtwo's DownB Disable to something else to fit the quote of Super Parry Bros.:

Spoiler

Future Sight: = Mewtwo's eyes glow blue / pink (depending on future Default Mantwo or Femtwo palette), going into a stance, showing active counter-frames on his start-up with some lingering frames followed by blue / pink psychic energy emitting from one of his raised up hands. Any attack that hits Mewtwo from above, behind, below, or in front of Mewtwo during his active counter-frames, will proc the Future Sight stance to spreading his arms out forcing a blast of Psychic energy with a mix of electricity & darkness in his / her attack, in a large radius orb surrounding Mewtwo for a fair moment of time given reasonable cooldown.

Disregarding custom move-sets for this made-up counter-move, the hit-bubble of Mewtwo's Future Sight would have to be fairly reasonable persay the image below. It would be one of the few if not the only parry move that procs an AOE surrounding orb instead of generic parries countering forward or backward.
His start-up would be his eyes glowing in his said stance, like so:

Perfect example of the proc'ing Future Sight example after his start-up stance is below:

 

[Kenith]

Spoiler

Future Sight: = Mewtwo's eyes glow blue / pink (depending on future Default Mantwo or Femtwo palette), going into a stance, showing active counter-frames on his start-up with some lingering frames followed by blue / pink psychic energy emitting from one of his raised up hands. Any attack that hits Mewtwo from above, behind, below, or in front of Mewtwo during his active counter-frames, will proc the Future Sight stance to spreading his arms out forcing a blast of Psychic energy with a mix of electricity & darkness in his / her attack, in a large radius orb surrounding Mewtwo for a fair moment of time given reasonable cooldown.

Disregarding custom move-sets for this made-up counter-move, the hit-bubble of Mewtwo's Future Sight would have to be fairly reasonable persay the image below. It would be one of the few if not the only parry move that procs an AOE surrounding orb instead of generic parries countering forward or backward.
His start-up would be his eyes glowing in his said stance, like so:

Perfect example of the proc'ing Future Sight example after his start-up stance is below:

No offense, but even if this is Super Parry Bros, we already have a character who counter-attacks by seeing the future...

 

[Masonomace]

No offense, but even if this is Super Parry Bros, we already have a character who counter-attacks by seeing the future...

None taken. I had this idea in my head bits & pieces while playing Project M mewtwo, & that was like December 2013 for me. The name is just a play-on for the pokemon attack from the games. The effect & it's proc are completely different from Shulks Vision Counterattack.
EDIT: Lol I actually did not realize the play-on worded move Future Sight was practically identical to Shuk's parry move. Damndify

 

[Kenith]

I feel like if Mewtwo returns he will have a slightly revamped moveset to feel like a new character and get rid of any bad memories of his subpar Melee moveset.

Personally, I would be fine with a stronger version of the Melee moveset. Though, it would be funny if Mewtwo gets two wholly original movesets for himself before Ganondorf gets even one.

 

[Masonomace]

I feel like if Mewtwo returns he will have a slightly revamped moveset to feel like a new character and get rid of any bad memories of his subpar Melee moveset.

Personally, I would be fine with a stronger version of the Melee moveset. Though, it would be funny if Mewtwo gets two wholly original movesets for himself before Ganondorf gets even one.

Oh man. . .Mewtwo's gonna be nominated as the King of Darkness if we go around saying that & it actually happens. Prepare to feel like a parent when it's all said & done & Mewtwo legit gets 2 kinds of move-sets to bode for his speculated 2 Mega Evolutions via Final Smash(s).

EDIT: But seriously Mewtwo needs a tune-up. Nintendo notices Project M, & they know of Mewtwo in the game I'm sure. If Mewtwo is in Sm4sh & 5, he's gonna be compared to P:M Mewtwo & result in being a 'better' or 'worse' than character.

 

[PAPCGyE]

And we will if we must


I like falco as well but wolf is far more important of a character both earned their spots its just wolf deserves it more.

There are two reasons why I think Wolf is more likely than Falco:
1- Wolf is the Star Fox Villain
2- Maybe he is a bit similar to Fox, but much less than Falco

 

[Headcrab Jackalope]

Still makes me sad that Alph might be an alt while Dr. Mario is a separate character. They couldn't slightly change some of his stats? The Pikmin representation is bad enough already, especially in Smash Run. One more character couldn't have hurt for Pikmin. ;-;

Also, if Mewtwo gets in, what happens to Project M Mewtwo? Since PM can't legally put in new characters from Smash 4, would they have to remove him? Or because it's based on Melee Mewtwo, does he stay?

 

[Sonic Poke]

At this point I believe We have seen the entire roster. No more slots. Meele roster has space for more characters but it does not have. I believe we are going to get a character reveal pos-Duck Hunt, Dark Pit, Bowser Jr. and Doc. Mario. A character reveal after the entire 3DS roster be revealed.
Probably Chorus Kids, and along with this reveal the reveal of the Ice Climbers. Yes, I believe all the Melee veterans will return. Then the reveal of the remaining Brawl veterans bar the pokemon: Wolf, Snake and Lucas. They will be a surprise on disc DLC for the Wii U version. Free I mean.
This DLC will only be available for the New3DS, since the current one can't deal with Ice Climbers and Chorus Kids.

It would explain the Gematsu Leak, Polar Bear and Sneak Spirits on Smash Run, and the different time in the debuggin' process. The roster was decided in the very beginning of the development, Ice Climbers, Chrom and Chorus Kids were in that. Chrom would be generic then he was cut and replaced for Robin. Sakurai just couldn't make the other two characters work in 3DS version because of hardware limitations, then he decided to to cut them of the 3DS version, but not of the game. To fill the roster's holes, two alternate costumes were turned into actual characters, Lucina and Dr. Mario. Dark Pit was decided in the very beginning 'cause of Sakurai bias.

If you put a character in every white space in the official site, You'll get 45 characters. But we have 48 characters leaked, then we'll get 5 white spaces, these spaces are Ice Climbers, Chorus Kids, Wolf, Snake and Lucas. 54 characters final roster.

 

[Burruni]

There are two reasons why I think Wolf is more likely than Falco:
1- Wolf is the Star Fox Villain
2- Maybe he is a bit similar to Fox, but much less than Falco

1)

Wolf is not "The" Star Fox Villain. At best, he is a rival. A part of a team that is meant to be morally-inverted but skillfully-equal to the protagonists. He's antagonistic, but merely acts out plans of Andross for him.

2) Yes, he's far more differentiated from Fox than Falco. While all three share a final Smash, Wolf's normal "A" moves share almost no resemblance to Fox's and his specials are more unique in effect.

However, Falco has two big factors going for him over Wolf.

A) Seniority. Say what you want, but Falco is much more integrated into Smash than Wolf was. Partially, you could tie this to their SSE roles but Falco is much more Smash-inclined than Wolf.

B) Popularity. Falco, being one of the top-tier characters in Melee and Brawl alongside his cocky attitude, has made him a far more popular character in Star Fox and Smash alike. Wolf, as I recall, was met without fanfare or many people truly liking him as his own character ("Where's Krystal?!"). While being more unique, many felt he "played worse" and was "inferior" to the other two of his franchise. If just series relevance mattered and popularity didn't, Dr. Mario would have been part of the Forbidden 7 instead of Roy. It does have a factor

I'm sorry but if one of the Star Fox characters was getting cut, it surely isn't Falco.

Personally, I see Lucas being more likely to being retained because of popularity in Brawl and how vocally abundant Mother fans still are worldwide. Star Fox's popularity has dwindled down to being the States having a vast majority of the fanbase, which was dwindling down ever since the Gamecube. Sure, Star Fox Wii U has risen some hopes, but I think it's a case of being too late because we merely heard that it was being worked on, not anything relative to concept back at E3 2014.

By the time of the roster being set in to some extent by early development, the latest two Star Fox games (Command and 64 3D) combined barely outsold Fire Emblem: Awakening (the amazingly-received game of an otherwise niche series) in copies by I think 10k worldwide. While sales aren't everything, it can be seen as a correlation to popularity but by no means a causation between the two. I hate to be the cynic here, but I'm just trying to state some of the facts before us.

 

[Curious Villager]

If just series relevance mattered and popularity didn't, Dr. Mario would have been part of the Forbidden 7 instead of Roy. It does have a factor

??? Dr. Mario was a part of the "Forbidden Seven" along with Roy and Mewtwo....

Or am I misunderstanding something here....?

 

[Diddy Kong]

If there's no Mewtwo / Dixie / Impa this roster has failed badly.

All should make it in, also based on the Forbidden 7. Yes, Impa could be the spiritual succesor to 'Toon Sheik' and a way to avoid 3 characters being Zelda. Mewtwo shouldn't take so much time considering he was in Melee and had leftover data from Brawl. Dixie and Impa could be clones or semi-clones.

No excuses for no newcomer from DKC and Zelda. And no excuses not to put in Mewtwo.

 

[Sonic Poke]

If there's no Mewtwo / Dixie / Impa this roster has failed badly.

All should make it in, also based on the Forbidden 7. Yes, Impa could be the spiritual succesor to 'Toon Sheik' and a way to avoid 3 characters being Zelda. Mewtwo shouldn't take so much time considering he was in Melee and had leftover data from Brawl. Dixie and Impa could be clones or semi-clones.

No excuses for no newcomer from DKC and Zelda. And no excuses not to put in Mewtwo.

I understand you guy, but at this point an other newcomer bar Chorus Kids to me is wishful thinking.
But I wish to be badly wrong.

 

[PAPCGyE]

1)

Wolf is not "The" Star Fox Villain. At best, he is a rival. A part of a team that is meant to be morally-inverted but skillfully-equal to the protagonists. He's antagonistic, but merely acts out plans of Andross for him.

2) Yes, he's far more differentiated from Fox than Falco. While all three share a final Smash, Wolf's normal "A" moves share almost no resemblance to Fox's and his specials are more unique in effect.

However, Falco has two big factors going for him over Wolf.

A) Seniority. Say what you want, but Falco is much more integrated into Smash than Wolf was. Partially, you could tie this to their SSE roles but Falco is much more Smash-inclined than Wolf.

B) Popularity. Falco, being one of the top-tier characters in Melee and Brawl alongside his cocky attitude, has made him a far more popular character in Star Fox and Smash alike. Wolf, as I recall, was met without fanfare or many people truly liking him as his own character ("Where's Krystal?!"). While being more unique, many felt he "played worse" and was "inferior" to the other two of his franchise. If just series relevance mattered and popularity didn't, Dr. Mario would have been part of the Forbidden 7 instead of Roy. It does have a factor

I'm sorry but if one of the Star Fox characters was getting cut, it surely isn't Falco.

Personally, I see Lucas being more likely to being retained because of popularity in Brawl and how vocally abundant Mother fans still are worldwide. Star Fox's popularity has dwindled down to being the States having a vast majority of the fanbase, which was dwindling down ever since the Gamecube. Sure, Star Fox Wii U has risen some hopes, but I think it's a case of being too late because we merely heard that it was being worked on, not anything relative to concept back at E3 2014.

By the time of the roster being set in to some extent by early development, the latest two Star Fox games (Command and 64 3D) combined barely outsold Fire Emblem: Awakening (the amazingly-received game of an otherwise niche series) in copies by I think 10k worldwide. While sales aren't everything, it can be seen as a correlation to popularity but by no means a causation between the two. I hate to be the cynic here, but I'm just trying to state some of the facts before us.

I agree with you, Falco in more popular and his inclusion in Melee as a top-tire gives him a bigger fan base than Wolf and is true that Andross is the main villain of SF, but that doesn't means that Falco is a better choice than Wolf, I remember Sakurai saying that there would be no more clone characters, of course he broke that promise with the inclusion of Lucina.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The spin-offs are pretty insignifcant, was K. Rool known for that?
DK64 though seems to be praised alot and it was demanded by people to come to VC, I could call it a major appearance for K. Rool. He only has 4 major known appearances total, but now he's just not appearing in any more new DKC games.

It is interesting to me that you don't seem to know K Rools credentials in the slightest, yet you feel qualified enough to tell his fans and everyone else what qualifies as a game appearance and what does not.

I guess your boy Prince Sable hasn't been in any games at all

 

[Burruni]

??? Dr. Mario was a part of the "Forbidden Seven" along with Roy and Mewtwo....

Or am I misunderstanding something here....?

I was meaning that someone's popularity in Smash can be more important than the role they play in their home game(s). Roy, in terms of Fire Emblem, is the protagonist of one game and within the series is often considered one of the worst "Lord" characters.

Since he was so insignificant to his home series, it is more evident that his place and fandom in Smash (being a fairly close clone to one of the top-ranking characters) was reason for his clearly planned inclusion (as one of the Forbidden 7) as opposed to Dr. Mario who represents and is the face of a very iconic part of Mario's spinoffs that has been redone and remade many a time. I was trying to draw a parallel between that and Falco as a secondary protagonist with a massive fanbase to Wolf as a major rival with a much smaller supporting party. Sorry if that was confusing.

I agree with you, Falco in more popular and his inclusion in Melee as a top-tire gives him a bigger fan base than Wolf and is true that Andross is the main villain of SF, but that doesn't means that Falco is a better choice than Wolf, I remember Sakurai saying that there would be no more clone characters, of course he broke that promise with the inclusion of Lucina.

My point is that Wolf is not the primary or most recognizable villain his series to go against your point of him being "The" villain of Star Fox.

And your second half of the response is that Wolf is more likely than Falco because Sakurai went back on his words about clone characters... even though Falco is a more popular, more direct clone to Fox than Wolf? I don't understand what point you're trying to argue with that evidence.

Falco's the more likely choice to come back IF one is cut, however "right" to the series you believe that is, because he has more seniority and popularity in his own franchise as well as Smash Bros more than anything else.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

There are three things that worry me.
1)Lucas, Wolf, and Ice Climbers really being cut.
2)Mewtwo not returning
3)Donkey Kong not getting almost no new content whatsoever, despite being an ICON in gaming, but Kid Icarus has no problem gets a TON of content.

 

[PAPCGyE]

There are three things that worry me.
1)Lucas, Wolf, and Ice Climbers really being cut.
2)Mewtwo not returning
3)Donkey Kong not getting almost no new content whatsoever, despite being an ICON in gaming, but Kid Icarus has no problem gets a TON of content.

Well... Sakurai was in charge of Kid Icarus: Uprising, so...

 

[Diddy Kong]

I understand you guy, but at this point an other newcomer bar Chorus Kids to me is wishful thinking.
But I wish to be badly wrong.

Chorus Men would just upset me MORE than anything else at this point.

Requires more effort than Mewtwo, Dixie and Impa by far even if Dixie and Impa are unique cause of them being 3-in-1. And how exactly wouldn't the Ice Climbers work, but they would!? Chorus Kids should come with at least these other 3.

Can't leave out the 3 most important series after Mario with nothing but Greninja and try to make up for that with ****. And nothing but ****.

It is interesting to me that you don't seem to know K Rools credentials in the slightest, yet you feel qualified enough to tell his fans and everyone else what qualifies as a game appearance and what does not.

I guess your boy Prince Sable hasn't been in any games at all

Shots fired!

 

[FlareHabanero]

ITT: Diddy's Opinion Is Fact.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

There are three things that worry me.
1)Lucas, Wolf, and Ice Climbers really being cut.
2)Mewtwo not returning
3)Donkey Kong not getting almost no new content whatsoever, despite being an ICON in gaming, but Kid Icarus has no problem gets a TON of content.

Luckily we still don't know the full roster. Whew!

 

[Gre ninja'd]

I find it funny that people want a new zelda rep or dk rep when metroid just has 2 versions of samus

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

I find it funny that people want a new zelda rep or dk rep when metroid just has 2 versions of samus

We also want a Metroid rep.